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iTalk - Fantastic Apple Phone/Pod mockup

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
As seen on Cult of the Mac

iTalk Phone Mockup

I wish that Apple would produce something as exciting as this. It's been awhile since the last iMac design, the most recent exciting piece of design to come out of Cupertino. I'd say they are due. Unfortunately it seems that this isn't from Apple. Perhaps they will be smart enough to clone it.
post #2 of 44
Yeah. I've seen that video before. It is pretty awesome.
post #3 of 44
Two folding bits? Too fussy, would you have to open it with two hands in order to answer a call? Even if it flicked automatically your hand would get in the way. Very nicely done in terms of the presentation, but the design is too un-apple for it to be believable as an Apple product.

I know my mockup (just a pic) uses a sliding mechanism, but that is to minimize the length of the phone when it is in your pocket. The mechanism on this mock up is simply to protect the main screen within and camera it seems, and not change the form factor. There is some weirdo lines near the camera as well - extremely un-Apple, why create lines for no purpose? (and no it is not called design). There are too many inconsistencies imo.

Looks like a bling Nokia. Not to mention the Apple logo is ridiculously large.
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post #4 of 44
It is pretty cool
post #5 of 44
Thread Starter 
I really enjoy the flashing Apple for the ringer. Consistent with Apple or not, I wish they would make it. As for having to unfold it to dial (though probably not to speak), I think I can handle that okay. This is the most beautiful piece of portable kit I have ever seen. I WANT ONE!!!
post #6 of 44
It's completely un-ergonomic.
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post #7 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
It's completely un-ergonomic.

So don't buy one.

I disagree by the way, but that's okay.
post #8 of 44
I wouldn't. Point is Apple would never make something so clumsy. Two hand operation to open it? Can you not see that, or has the "cool slick advertising" won you over?

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post #9 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
I wouldn't. Point is Apple would never make something so clumsy. Two hand operation to open it? Can you not see that, or has the "cool slick advertising" won you over?


And who says it takes two hands to open it? You clearly have not imagined one of several solutions to how it opens. You have only visualized the most ineffective way. It is clumsy to you. That's fine. It isn't so to me. Further, as someone who used to make ads and has worked on product design and development and interface, no, I wasn't won over by slick advertizing. Be more careful about what you assume.
post #10 of 44
How exactly would you open it with one hand then? Enlighten me.
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post #11 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
How exactly would you open it with one hand then? Enlighten me.

Okay, here is just one way.

One button release spring loaded with resistance, giving a smooth and gentle opening with some stability.

There's one. I really want to focus on other things at the moment. There are a number of ways that they could do it. Your are assuming that the action is entirely manual and fully operator-dependent. I think that is a bad assumption. In fact, I couldn't imagine anyone deploying a two-gait cover in such a way because, as you point out, something engineered in that way would be difficult to operate.
post #12 of 44
Thread Starter 
I can, however, imagine that one might close it by squeezing both wings between the thumb and forefingers...though that would depend at least in part on the size of the unit, which is tough to judge here.

Heck, you find it clumsy and I find it beautiful. You see its problems, and I imagine a unit that has elegant design solutions engineered into it. Some people like the brick. I still prefer my Razr because I neither want my phone redialing on its own in my pocket, nor do I want to unlock the keypad every time I need to use it. Makes the world go round.
post #13 of 44
Well consider this, hold a phone normally... The back of the phone rests on your palm. Even if it had a sprung mechanism that opened slowly, the two squares would arch back into your hand, can you not see it? I'm not complaining about how it opens, but about the way it opens.

Where you see elegance, I see someone trying to use it.
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post #14 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
Well consider this, hold a phone normally... The back of the phone rests on your palm. Even if it had a sprung mechanism that opened slowly, the two squares would arch back into your hand, can you not see it? I'm not complaining about how it opens, but about the way it opens.

Where you see elegance, I see someone trying to use it.

Not if you are holding the body, no. Why the smugness about how you see it? I see someone trying to use it too. Me. Just different strokes for different folks, but your repeated assumptions about me and how I see and what influences me are a tad insulting. I love the phone and you don't. I want one and you don't. I get it. Let's leave it at that, eh?
post #15 of 44
There's a reason why no phone company (or if one has been made like it, it hasn't sold well) makes a phone like this. I'll leave it at that.
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post #16 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
There's a reason why no phone company (or if one has been made like it, it hasn't sold well) makes a phone like this. I'll leave it at that.

Your arrogance is not becoming.

I am not sure that I would point to current mobile manufacturers' work as evidence of what works and what doesn't. Most mobile phones are crap. Nobody had made a StarTac until Motorola did so.
post #17 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
There's a reason why no phone company (or if one has been made like it, it hasn't sold well) makes a phone like this. I'll leave it at that.

I'm with you, looks great but completely impractical. Guess I'm just inelegant too.
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post #18 of 44
Thread Starter 
Some will love it. Some won't. Not a reflection on either.
post #19 of 44
Erm, where's the battery?

Where's the space for the other components?
post #20 of 44
Ok, say you can use it without dislocating your thumbs and forefinger and the spring mechanism magically worked both ways, why change the form factor at all? Does it really bring new functionality that no flip phone currently does not? Or should Apple be so desperate to be different that it makes a design more complicated than it need be?

I know you think I'm being negative, but you are being undeniably blindly positive, which is worse? I'm beginning to think you made this vid yourself.
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post #21 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by mattyj
Ok, say you can use it without dislocating your thumbs and forefinger and the spring mechanism magically worked both ways, why change the form factor at all? Does it really bring new functionality that no flip phone currently does not? Or should Apple be so desperate to be different that it makes a design more complicated than it need be?

I know you think I'm being negative, but you are being undeniably blindly positive, which is worse? I'm beginning to think you made this vid yourself.

I am not being blindly positive. I like it. Yes, I can see a mechanism that works, and as I said, can also imagine that it will only be necessary to open it, and not to close it. Yes, it presents some engineering challenges to making something that rates in terms of usability. Insurmountable ones? I don't think so. You do. To me, it would be worth solving them, and I do think solutions could be found. To you, I suspect that it is not worth it.

Personally, this is the first iTunes/vTunes phone that I have seen that is of any interest to me. Others love the sliding-panels phone we have all seen here, a design solution that currently exists in the marketplace, and one that could be good though I really don't like any of the phones currently on the market that use this strategy, not that someone else couldn't impliment it better.

I am not asking you to like this phone. Some will like it and some won't. Some will imagine ways to impliment this design in a usable design, and some won't. I think that I understand where you fall on these points, and I have no problem with that. I don't think that you are being negative. I do think that you unfortunately insult in order to assert your point with a seeming air of authority.
post #22 of 44
Net Dog, your an ass hole
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post #23 of 44
Ok agreed, one challenge would be to make the two hinges sturdy enough and the shut lines when its closed small enough for it to be acceptable for an Apple product. Plus a lot the hinges on flip phones weaken over time.

Looking at the video again, the hinges used would cause a problem when trying to make a spring mechanism, as there are two hinges on either end of the phone, so the unfolding would have to be in two stages, and would need smaller parts. These are more expensive etc.

However we've seen how good Apple is at making mechanical parts (the previous iMacs swinging arm) so if anyone could pull it off, I guess it's Apple.

Having said this, if Apple were to make a phone, they might just opt for no mechanical parts whatsoever, no buttons etc, just a screen taking up one side with touch screen controls. To me that would be the most elegant and innovative solution. The trouble would be making the touch sensitivity durable. To me that would be an engineering challenge worth pursuing.

Makes sense no? Apple likes to take things in new directions, this would be new, not just an adaption of previous designs.
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post #24 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by netdog
Your arrogance is not becoming.

I am not sure that I would point to current mobile manufacturers' work as evidence of what works and what doesn't. Most mobile phones are crap. Nobody had made a StarTac until Motorola did so.


Oh please

are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?

It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.

I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.

ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.

pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out
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post #25 of 44
Nailed it in one user23. I said this earlier, but he'll just disagree with you as he did with me.
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post #26 of 44
Thread Starter 
Now you're talking like a problem solver

Get this man a job at Apple.

I don't know about you, but I couldn't have been much more disappointed than I was in the Motorola iTunes phone. Then again, even though I used a Motorola know, I have to admit that the interface is just awful, so Moto probably wasn't the best choice to add even more functionality to phones that don't even operate smoothly in the first place Fortunately, I just use my Razr to dial friends and take calls, and couldn't care less about all the whistles. To me, it's just a phone, albeit one with a lovely form and a terrible keypad that I suffer gladly.

Admittedly, I like innovative design as long as it works well, even at times if it does not add any real functionality, so long as it doesn't make something less usable. Then again, that is a bias that I share with many. A true early adopter, I guess, which has left me with more than my fair share of new tech toys that didn't work too well, like my Duo 210 and my first Denon CD player. I am even one of those who wants the next iBook to be a tablet, something that raises the hackles of many, but unlike the tablets available that people point to, I want one that really works, with a great OS adaptation and handwriting recognition that hums. In essence, I want a tablet made by people who have thoroughly rethought the tablet, just like the folks at Xerox Parc did with the computer.

Agreed about the hinges. This phone is full of challenges, and given the chips it would require, along with the disk, I am not even sure that it all could be crammed into this phone, certainly if it is to meet radiation regulations. LOL

Still, I think that there are a lot of people that would love this phone, just as there are many who lust after the Mercedes 300SL Gullwing. Was that practical? Mmmm. Did the doors hold up? Ask anyone who owns one. Are they great? All in the eye of the beholder, and I do love them. Then again, try opening the door on a Ford GT40 in a parking lot. You will need two spaces or remain a prisoner in your car. Still, at the dealer near me in St. John's Wood, they get them in from time to time, and they leave the lot quite quickly at a substantial premium. This phone isn't Falling Water, where I could well imagine curling up for a weekend with a great book or three, but it sure makes me more excited than the Slivr, and excites something in me that triggers that elusive emotion we call desire.
post #27 of 44
Count me amongst the unwashed inelegant masses. It sure looks nice floating in air, but I try just imagining having to answer the thing. Not. Gonna. Happen.

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post #28 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by user23
Oh please

are there ANY posts of your, netdog, which don't reek of arrogance?

It's tiring reading threads which *could* be cool, only to see you subtly, or not-so-subtly, belittle anyone who debates with you.

I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.

ps: sorry, mods, if this post is out of context with the rules of AI.

pps: IMHO, that phone is an ergonomic nightmare. It just looks cool. I have a pretty good sense of proprioception/ergonomics...and I just can't imagine holding that phone, with what..2 fingers?...while the top & bottom parts "elegantly" fold out

Thumb and two fingers. The magic of the opposable digit.

You can't please all the people all of the time.

FWIW, no, I had nothing to do with this mockup. I just posted it here because I like it. I am surprised that so few others seem to. Oh well.
post #29 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by user23


I feel your posts lower the rather high IQ of AI.


Thanks
post #30 of 44
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.

Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet (i.e. manufacturability), nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.
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post #31 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.

Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.

Agreed. Not having the expertise in electrical engineering nor knowledge about the restrictions around radio devices, these are the obstacles that I suspect render the issue essentially moot. Sad but true.
post #32 of 44
I've watched that video several times now and I can't agree with this being anywhere near viable or elegant. It's certainly not something you'd blindly pick up and open without it hitting the space between your thumb and index finger. It also seems a precarious way to hold an expensive device while it opens.

All-in-all I'd say it looks cool but definitely not Apple-ish. Each end would need to be *double hinged* to even make that unfolding physically possible. I'd be pretty skeptical of the overall strength of it considering all the tiny parts required just to make it open.

I'd hope that any real Apple solution would have a more simple elegance to it than that "Optimus Prime" transformer gadget.
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post #33 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Splinemodel
Gentlemen. . . I know that the Nano is thin and all, but this design is impossible for the time being, and perhaps the next decade. Displays just aren't that thin yet, and there are problems with using metal enclosures for radio devices. It would need to be constructed of some sort of non-conductive metallic glass in order to be feasible. As it is, Motorola sank a buttload of money into the keypad design of the Razr, let alone the whole thing.

Let's revist this concept when electronic ink displays are in the mainstream. Metallic glass already exists, but I'm not sure it's usable in commodity products yet, nor am I sure if at this stage it's the full-blown, amorphorous non-conducting material that it needs to be.

Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by max_naylor
Take the RAZR as an example. The RAZR is thin, hence the name. Have another look at the mockup. Yeah, so the inside screen may be a tad to large to be feasible, but metal would surely not be a problem. The RAZR's made of metal isn't it (at least the keypad)? I think that the technology is available to do this. The RAZR's only 13.9mm thin. That's almost nothing: like 0.2mm thicker than two iPod nanos on top of each other (two iPod nanos = 13.72mm). I don't even think that battery life would be that much of a problem. Most of the electronics would probably have to be in the flip-out bit though, to accomodate the screen and battery in the other section.

I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.

The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)\

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post #35 of 44
Yep, most of those I know with Razrs had the keypad on them give up within a few months.
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post #36 of 44
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
I currently own my third Razr. First two froze, and the reception is positively terrible.

The look is nice enough but the build quality, is surprisingly bad. (seen as a lot of people seem to think it's the best phone ever)\

While I am not happy with Motorola's software, I have to say that my Razr, bought when they first came out, has been (over)used and abused and has had absolutely no problems. Nor have the Razrs that belong to any of my friends. I can't agree that the build quality is bad, nor that the reception is "positively terrible." It does not have the reception of some of the larger thicker phones, but its reception is comparable to the other smaller phones in use by people I know. I think that perhaps you have just had some bad luck.

Relevant Apple content: I wish that this thing would sync up with Entourage, not that Motorola's directory is any good at all.
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by max_naylor
Take the RAZR as an example. . . but metal would surely not be a problem. . .

I don't mean to sound petulant, but you're wrong. At 900MHz (roughly the frequency of 2G cellular) a metal enclosure of such dimensions will cause all sorts of interferrence problems, even if there is an aperture for the antenna. At 1.8GHz there's a little bit more freedom, but the wavelength is still about 17cm, and you'll want to limit the amount of reflective materials (i.e. metal surfaces) in the enclosure as much as possible. The Razr gets away with it since the keypad isn't near the antenna, and it's also not generally in the path of the transmission.
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post #38 of 44
Wouldn't you answer by tapping something on our bluetooth headset? I can only see closing the thing to stick in a pocket or purse and opening it for watching movies/tv shows and dialing a number manually.

Most issues might be solved by placing the click wheel below the small screen when closed. Its not like you can use it easily when it's fully opened anyway. The camera is also on the wrong side...for video chat.

Still though...the double hinge is inelegant from a usability standpoint. The only advantage is to provide better protection of the screen when the display isn't desired.

That could be done with a hinge along the long end which would also give you the ability to prop the display up at a reasonable viewing angle. Put the "chin" at the top for an iSight camera.

Same size, increased usability, somewhat less cool.

Vinea
post #39 of 44
Yeah... there are some design issues with the phone that aren't being addressed all that well. It appears to be an attractive gadget at first glance.

The keypad needs texture or a raised/inset area for your fingers to feel what you're dialing/texting. Putting it on a screen gets rid of this feedback and is problematic. Think about how much you interact with that part of the keypad without having to look at it.

The screen would be a power draw on the mechanism and a good touchscreen still isn't cheap, of quality and durable enough for this kind of purpose yet.

The scrollwheel folds onto the back of the phone and closes towards the inside of the phone rendering it mostly unusable.

The double hinges are an interesting attempt at getting the action of the phone to be different, but it'll make it harder to open the phone and it splits up useful areas to fit electronics in.

I like the Flashing logo ringer but it would definitely be smaller in an apple design.
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post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by netdog
and excites something in me that triggers that elusive emotion we call desire.

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