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post #41 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Why is that though?

Because the answers you can (honestly) present would undermine your sensationalistic fear-mongering. That is why.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I think it is because there is nothing that I could possibly say

You should have just stopped there. You have it exactly right.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
- up to and including a video of Luce personally executing hapless sinners with a machete - that you would take on board.

There you go again.

So, in brief, your answers are:

Quote:
P.S. Where does Luce call for the killing of gays"?

No where.

Quote:
P.P.S. Where do you find that Battle Cry "aims to install a theocratic society based on a literal interpretation of the BIble"? Or is that simply your own interpretation of its aims?

No where. Yes.

Quote:
P.P.P.S. How is Gary DeMar (the source of the comment about executing gays) connected to "Battle Cry"?

He is not.
post #42 of 188
Thread Starter 
So, to sum up: it doesn't matter what Christians call for the execution of gays as long as you can point to one who hasn't yet in public.

Ok

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #43 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
So, to sum up: it doesn't matter what Christians call for the execution of gays as long as you can point to one who hasn't yet in public.

Ok


Don't be obstuse (and quit playing games). That is not what I said. You seem to be a master at twisting things. The point was that you deliberately tried to connect the statements on one nutjob calling for the execution of gays with a completely separate organization/group/person/event/activity for the purposes of leaving the impression that Battle Cry is an extremist, militaristic organization bent on executing gays (among other things).

You chose some unrelated bits to weave together an untrue narrative. Why don't you just admit this and stop lying.

Furthermore, it does matter if someone calls for the exection of gays...but surely you are not stupid enough to assume that one person doing so a) constitutes the whole of Christianity and all that subscribe to the faith and beliefs of Christianity, and b) means that all (or even most or even a lot of) Christians hold that same belief (executing gays).

Quit playing games.
post #44 of 188
segovious, this thread really does underscore how you aren't connecting the dots of Christianity in America. I'd go back to shilling for Islam, you're much better at it.

De Mar is a serious reconstructionist -- the ATF group is something that the evangelical community had spawned. These are very different branches of The Faith -- they barely respect each other. One is very strict -- death penalty for homosexual acts, adultery, rape, etc. -- the other gave us "Christian Rap," swooning Britney Spiritual-laced praise/worship, and other delightful culturally vacuous feints at relevance. One has too little relevance, the other arguably has designs on too much.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #45 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
One is very strict -- death penalty for homosexual acts, adultery, rape, etc. --

Yeah but, but, but, CC is saying that's not true? ZOMG.. whom should we believe?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #46 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Quit playing games.

Good ideal.

So, I'm a liar - who isn't? Let God sort me out in the hereafter.

Meanwhile, having got that out of the way, back down here, are you prepared to take your turn in the big chair?

Your question is:

Is Christianity to be interpreted literally or metaphorically in your opinion?

If it is the latter which bits are metaphor? Presumably someone - you? - could believe that some of it is metaphor and still think Gays should be executed.

What's the position on that, I think it needs clearing up because, in case you haven't noticed, we are at war with religious intolerance and extremism - I know some people view this as only applicable to Islam but that is because they are intolerant and extremist.

Where do you stand - after all those posts we still don't know.

Unsettling.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #47 of 188
Complete and utterly blatant discrimination against a minority group in our country has and continues to be considered "acceptable" because of two sentences in the good little book we all love to quote.

Otherwise, there'd be absolutely no excuse for this disgusting behavior.
"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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"The selfishness of Ayn Rand capitalism is the equivalent of intellectual masturbation -- satisfying in an ego-stroking way, but an ethical void when it comes to our commonly shared humanity."
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post #48 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
So, I'm a liar

Glad we settled that then.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Is Christianity to be interpreted literally or metaphorically in your opinion?

What do you mean by "Christianity"? Please be specific.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Where do you stand

On what specific point?
post #49 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Glad we settled that then.



What do you mean by "Christianity"? Please be specific.



On what specific point?

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #50 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius

You don't wish for answers...or is it that you think your vague questions are sufficient? Which is it?

EDIT: Nevermind. You don't want to be an adult. I'm not playing any longer.
post #51 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Complete and utterly blatant discrimination against a minority group in our country has and continues to be considered "acceptable" because of two sentences in the good little book we all love to quote.

Otherwise, there'd be absolutely no excuse for this disgusting behavior.

"Two sentences in the good little book" Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Christianity is founded upon beliefs that call for complete and total "discrimination" against SIN. Period. The whole framework of the Old and New Testament points to the basis of moral law. Christians oppose homosexuality on the grounds of the whole body of scripture, not "two sentences". Similarly, we don't need a specific prohibition against abortion to know that killing one's child is wrong.

While conceptual "re-definitions" (of marriage, sin, salvation etc) are again in vogue with contemporary society, it didn't work with the Romans, or any society since. It won't work now.

The Bible labels homosexuality as a sin. Since the left likes to dwell on this side of things, I'd also point out that the same Bible also labels adultery and fornication sins as well.

Anyone who thinks Christians somehow give a free pass to heterosexual sin while condemning only homosexual practices are advised to contact one William Jefferson Clinton...

Christians have always challenged sin, since it blocks man's fellowship with his God and ultimately leads people to an eternity without God.

And Christians do not allow that to happen to anyone unchallenged.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #52 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Christians have always challenged sin

Except when it is a Christian sinning by calling for the death of someone who has a sexuality they disagree with.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #53 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Except when it is a Christian sinning by calling for the death of someone who has a sexuality they disagree with.

1. There are plenty of Christians who would tell Mr. Demar he's wrong. The very fact that he has little public following in a predominantly Christian country (and is only cited as a source by people like yourself) attests to this.

2. Most Christians would almost instinctively cite Jesus' refusal to sign off on the stoning of the woman caught in adultery ( in John Chapter 8.) Note that this does not imply that Jesus approved of adultery. Likewise, saying that gays should not be given the death penalty does not mean that one has to approve of homosexual behaviour.

3. The main issue is that the Bible claims it's a sexuality that God disagrees with. No amount of re-definition is going to hide that fact.
The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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The evil that we fight is but the shadow of the evil that we do.
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post #54 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Most Christians would almost instinctively cite Jesus' refusal to sign off on the stoning of the woman caught in adultery ( in John Chapter 8.)

Actually, as you know, Jesus was a tad more clever than simply "refusing to sign off". Essentially raising the bar above what the law called for previously. Basically saying..."sure, fine, go ahead...ummm, but wait...new standard here...only those without sin can do this..." (sound of crickets...everyone humbly and sheepishly walking away)

So the response to Mr. De Mar is..."sure, fine, go ahead...ummm, but only if you are also without sin."
post #55 of 188
The last time I looked it wasn't the Christians who were slicing peoples heads off. I am so sick of hearing about evil Christians killing off gays, foreigners and infidels. Get a freaking clue. If the "fundie"Christians wanted your head on a stick, they would have it. Man , I'm sick of this drivel.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #56 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by southside grabowski
The last time I looked it wasn't the Christians who were slicing peoples heads off. I am so sick of hearing about evil Christians killing off gays, foreigners and infidels. Get a freaking clue. If the "fundie"Christians wanted your head on a stick, they would have it. Man , I'm sick of this drivel.

yeah, I think they must have gotten bored with that after their 1000 year rampage.

Fortunately, "Fundie" Christianity is still a minority despite the fact that because they are the most vocal, they get the most attention. Lets face it, no-one really has anything to say about happy-hippy Xianity, because they're actually living the life that Christ taught.

Unfortunately, because of Fundamentalisms Nazi tactics, their doom mongering, contempt for life and insane belief (that goes all the way to the Prez) that they are Gods 'chosen' few, or his 'army' (exactly the kind of thing that preceeded the dark age) - those of us that are 'awake' to this kind of thing (those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it), see all too clearly, that once they have reached critical mass, it wont be long before it is all too easy for them to have 'our heads' on sticks.
post #57 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by southside grabowski
The last time I looked it wasn't the Christians who were slicing peoples heads off. I am so sick of hearing about evil Christians killing off gays, foreigners and infidels. Get a freaking clue. If the "fundie"Christians wanted your head on a stick, they would have it. Man , I'm sick of this drivel.

Bye.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #58 of 188
Thread Starter 
A fundie preacher is calling for execution of people based on the sexual preferences.

The response from fellow Christians is:

So the response to Mr. De Mar is..."sure, fine, go ahead...

Chilling.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
Reply
post #59 of 188
Wow segovius, you really are being quite dishonest in this thread.
post #60 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Wow segovius, you really are being quite dishonest in this thread.

Yeah, how dare you criticize Christian leaders that support the execution of people due solely to their sexual orientation?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #61 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Wow segovius, you really are being quite dishonest in this thread.

How so?

If you mean leaving out the 'without sin' bit well it isn't me that's being dishonest, I am illustrating some rampant dishonesty.

NO-ONE is without sin. so why add the rider 'sure if...' and why not just outright condemn it?

You don't get more dishonest - and offensive - than that.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #62 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
How so?

If you mean leaving out the 'without sin' bit well it isn't me that's being dishonest, I am illustrating some rampant dishonesty.

NO-ONE is without sin. so why add the rider 'sure if...' and why not just outright condemn it?

You don't get more dishonest - and offensive - than that.

First, attributing this "kill the gays" statement to Battlecry when, as far as I can tell, there was no link, and second, yes the "throw the first stone" issue. C-C's statement was outright condemning it.

I've studied that story recently, and it's one of the best Jesus stories, really. It shows him being trapped by those who knew he had been criticizing the pharisees and the torah laws. If he had said "no" don't stone her, he would have been directly disobeying the law, but if he said "yes" he would have contradicted his earlier teachings of compassion. So he found this clever way out, not outright condemning it while at the same time completely disobeying it.

As an addendum, that story does not appear in the earliest biblical manuscripts. It was added later. Either it isn't really Jesus, or it is from some other tradition or source that no longer exists. Oh well, it's a good story.

For a reference on that, I couldn't find a good source on the internet, but you can go to this book and "search inside" for "The woman taken in adultery." It's on page 63.
post #63 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
A fundie preacher is calling for execution of people based on the sexual preferences.

The response from fellow Christians is:

So the response to Mr. De Mar is..."sure, fine, go ahead...

Chilling.


I really cannot believe how blatantly dishonest you are being here. I have seen intelligent, honest, well-written posts from you in the past. This thread contain no examples of them.

The full statement (which was a paraphrase of Jesus' own statement on a similar issue) was:

So the response to Mr. De Mar is..."sure, fine, go ahead...ummm, but only if you are also without sin."
post #64 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
I really cannot believe how blatantly dishonest you are being here. I have seen intelligent, honest, well-written posts from you in the past. This thread contain no examples of them.

The full statement (which was a paraphrase of Jesus' own statement on a similar issue) was:

So the response to Mr. De Mar is..."sure, fine, go ahead...ummm, but only if you are also without sin."

But you believe no-one is without sin. So what is your point? How about 'don't go ahead?' and if not why not?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #65 of 188
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
First, attributing this "kill the gays" statement to Battlecry when, as far as I can tell, there was no link, and second, yes the "throw the first stone" issue. C-C's statement was outright condemning it.

They are both literalist Christians. The position 'kill the gays' must be believed by all who believe the Bible to be the literal word of God as it explicitly states this.

BattleCry also claim to be literalist Christians.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #66 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
But you believe no-one is without sin.

Correct. (As does Jesus.)

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
So what is your point?

That only those free of sin are free to dole out the punishments of sin. (As he also implied.)

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
How about 'don't go ahead?

That is what is being said.

Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
and if not why not?

I think we've covered that.

Are you being deliberately obtuse on this question or do you truly not understand?
post #67 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Yeah, how dare you criticize Christian leaders that support the execution of people due solely to their sexual orientation?

We know which religion executes gays, and it isn't Christianity.
post #68 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
We know which religion executes gays, and it isn't Christianity.

Yep, we do.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #69 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
They are both literalist Christians. The position 'kill the gays' must be believed by all who believe the Bible to be the literal word of God as it explicitly states this.

BattleCry also claim to be literalist Christians.

First, show us where.

Second, stop your fallacious and dishonest argumentation.

Third, on this whole business of "literalist"...must you again be so simplistic about this?

The question "Do you interpret the Bible literally?" is the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question of the anti-religious folks of the world. Most Christians would/should explain to you that:

a) there are parts of the Bible that are meant to (and should) be read literally, and other parts should not, and some parts which are unclear, (Anticipatory answer: No I am not going to enumerate all of them for you. If you are truly, sincerely, interested, I recommend this book for you to read.)

b) context in reading scripture (as with all things) is vitally important for both proper exegesis and hermeneutics, and

c) on this topic (and others), the reader (Christian or otherwise) needs to reconcile what Jesus said in relation to things written in the Old Testament.

You want things to be like this:

a) All or nothing. Someone either reads everything literally or not.

b) Screw context...that is only a tool for "picking and choosing".

c) You want to pick one piece and ignore the other (speaking of "picking and choosing").
post #70 of 188
Also, segovious, is there any way you could explain why someone like yourself --- who has deliberately and persistently misrepresented Christian positions for effect --- even deserves an answer? How could anyone take seriously your notion of insisting absolutely that you don't/won't function in a world of absolutes: which allows you to use every dirty trick in the book to be viciously critical of this same Truth?

There's no way to win -- even if you lose on the 'death to gays' thing, you can easily retreat on principle and regurgitate the usual tried & true fundie bashing points --- whether it be guilt by association with Islamic fundies, or the dreaded Spanish Inquisition critique.

You're starting to sound like a broken record.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #71 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
We know which religion executes gays, and it isn't Christianity.

Do we? Maybe you 'know', but I don't. Care to enlighten us how the religion executes gays, as opposed to, say, people with weapons in their hands, otherwise known as, the legal authorities?
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #72 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
The question "Do you interpret the Bible literally?" is the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question of the anti-religious folks of the world. Most Christians would/should explain to you that:

a) there are parts of the Bible that are meant to (and should) be read literally, and other parts should not, and some parts which are unclear, (Anticipatory answer: No I am not going to enumerate all of them for you. If you are truly, sincerely, interested, I recommend this book for you to read.)

b) context in reading scripture (as with all things) is vitally important for both proper exegesis and hermeneutics, and

c) on this topic (and others), the reader (Christian or otherwise) needs to reconcile what Jesus said in relation to things written in the Old Testament.



The only problem with this argument is that there's no authority to decide what should be taken literally - and what shouldn't. Likewise, there exists no authority to consider and decide what should be read in context with other things, and what should be read simply on its own merit.

The fact that there are Bibles out there that are different from one another doesn't help either. The Christians may take things literally - and they may not, but nobody knows (or even decides) what should be taken literally and what not. Therefore the argument could always be "Yeah, but, we don't take that literally!" - because nobody knows what Christians take literally and what they don't. It's in constant flux, depending on the argument made.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #73 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes, these are the qualities of a Christian and I do believe you manage to live this from what I see - obviously I don't know you but that's how it comes across.

I would also like to say that although I am not a Christian I agree with all you say and one should not judge others but there is a 'but' and it is why I feel that threads like this are not bashing Christianity or any particular person's beliefs.

The 'but' is this: when religion - any religion (or shall we rather say spirituality) strays into the political arena then it ceases to function as a spiritual walk.

We all have our own political and this is good. But they should be informed by whatever beliefs and principles we hold - not the other way round. If politics start to inform belief then we have a political system - when that happens I feel it can - and should - be up there to be shot at.

If Jesus had wanted to take political power he could have done so. Or he could have left clear instructions that his followers in the future should do so. He didn't do that, he said "render unto Caesar...."

Just because something appears in religious formulation doesn't make it right - some of these things - the IRA and Taleban would be classic examples - absolutely SHOULD be opposed. In those case it is not a question of belief or 'sin', it becomes a question of a threat to society and is out of the spiritual arena. Caesar's realm......

Btw, I am not equating this movement under discussion with the IRA or Taleban. Yet. They are just getting going. Bit what if? Why can't we look at it?

They may be harmless - though I would argue they have already done much damage - but maybe not. Why do we always have to rely on hindsight and platitudes such as 'Never Again' used only in retrospect?

How about "It might be happening again now"? for a slogan if we have to have one?

It's called foresight and if there was more of it then there would be less of a lot of other unpleasant things. I'm sure we can all think of our own analogies.

Agreed

Fellows
May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #74 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Do we? Maybe you 'know', but I don't. Care to enlighten us how the religion executes gays, as opposed to, say, people with weapons in their hands, otherwise known as, the legal authorities?

Legal authorities in an explicitly theocratic government who execute gays explicitly based on religious law.
post #75 of 188

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #76 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
"Two sentences in the good little book" Talk about missing the forest for the trees.

Christianity is founded upon beliefs that call for complete and total "discrimination" against SIN. Period. The whole framework of the Old and New Testament points to the basis of moral law. Christians oppose homosexuality on the grounds of the whole body of scripture, not "two sentences". Similarly, we don't need a specific prohibition against abortion to know that killing one's child is wrong.

While conceptual "re-definitions" (of marriage, sin, salvation etc) are again in vogue with contemporary society, it didn't work with the Romans, or any society since. It won't work now.

The Bible labels homosexuality as a sin. Since the left likes to dwell on this side of things, I'd also point out that the same Bible also labels adultery and fornication sins as well.

Anyone who thinks Christians somehow give a free pass to heterosexual sin while condemning only homosexual practices are advised to contact one William Jefferson Clinton...

Christians have always challenged sin, since it blocks man's fellowship with his God and ultimately leads people to an eternity without God.

And Christians do not allow that to happen to anyone unchallenged.

I think you missed the entire fucking point of Christianity. It's not up to you to judge. It's up to the grey bearded old white man who lives in the sky. It's not your god damn job to challenge sin. It's your job to live your life respecting those around you, possibly urging them to "live a better life" but certainly NOT judging them and discriminating against them. You make baby Jesus cry.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #77 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
First, show us where.

Second, stop your fallacious and dishonest argumentation.

Third, on this whole business of "literalist"...must you again be so simplistic about this?

The question "Do you interpret the Bible literally?" is the "Have you stopped beating your wife?" question of the anti-religious folks of the world. Most Christians would/should explain to you that:

a) there are parts of the Bible that are meant to (and should) be read literally, and other parts should not, and some parts which are unclear, (Anticipatory answer: No I am not going to enumerate all of them for you. If you are truly, sincerely, interested, I recommend this book for you to read.)

b) context in reading scripture (as with all things) is vitally important for both proper exegesis and hermeneutics, and

c) on this topic (and others), the reader (Christian or otherwise) needs to reconcile what Jesus said in relation to things written in the Old Testament.

You want things to be like this:

a) All or nothing. Someone either reads everything literally or not.

b) Screw context...that is only a tool for "picking and choosing".

c) You want to pick one piece and ignore the other (speaking of "picking and choosing").

The issue is HOW you pick and choose. From over on this side of the fence it seems like the picking and choosing is solely for the purposes of convenience and easy bigotry.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
Reply

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #78 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Legal authorities in an explicitly theocratic government who execute gays explicitly based on religious law.

Show me the religious law that says 'execute gays'.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #79 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Meanwhile, back on planet Earth.

She's a lying, deceitful, shameless self-promoter that pushed her way all the way to the parliament while demonizing one specific religious group in the country that was generous enough to offer her the right to stand for, and win, public office.

She herself admitted to lying to immigration authorities and she herself decided to move out of The Netherlands. Nobody forced her out. She and her minions have no-one else to blame but her. Perhaps next time when immigration authorities ask her questions, she decided to answer them truthfully.
'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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'L'enfer, c'est les autres' - JPS
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post #80 of 188
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
Show me the religious law that says 'execute gays'.

Leviticus 20:13
"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death. Their blood shall be upon them."

Of course Leviticus says a lot of other horseshit too:

Lev 20:2\tAgain, thou shalt say to the children of Israel, Whosoever [he be] of the children of Israel, or of the strangers that sojourn in Israel, that giveth [any] of his seed unto Molech; he shall surely be put to death: the people of the land shall stone him with stones.


Lev 20:3\tAnd I will set my face against that man, and will cut him off from among his people; because he hath given of his seed unto Molech, to defile my sanctuary, and to profane my holy name.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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