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Apple unveils Intel-based MacBook notebooks - Page 11

post #401 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
Yay my Macbook just came today. My first impression, HEAVY! The Macbook is for my wife so I don't mind to much but I really believe Apple is behind technologically in the weight area. I tied to find a 13.3 inch notebook that was heavier but couldn't, the Macbook was the heaviest by at least a pound in every instance. I really hope Apple comes out with a smaller, lighter model. Well thank god OSX works on my Thinkpad X60.

You are the negative type, are you not?
You don't think along the line "oh what a wonderful machine,
what a beauty beast, competitive priced too." No, you rather
propose "weigh' an' heavy crap". Come on, man, apologize
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post #402 of 441
Wow the whining has reached new levels:

1. The MacBook is a consumer laptop. It isn't supposed to have the best graphics or the lightest weight. With its specs it is the best CONSUMER laptop on the market even w/o the iApps.

2. The ThinkPad and small Vaio's are good, light laptops for business travelers and students who don't have backpacks, but they are not in the same league as the MacBook. I think Apple should have a subnotebook too, but it is dumb to compare the MacBook to any subnotebook. One pound is not a deal breaker for most CONSUMERS.

3. There is no 15.4" sweet spot. People buy what they expect is a good deal and after 30 minutes of use the average CONSUMER doesn't care if those same pixels are in 13 or 15 inches of display space. It is different for graphics people or those who are on their computers for several hours at a time and who might feel the eyestrain, but not average CONSUMERS.

4. The MacBook needs to be marketed as a great product, not just Macs as a great lifestyle. If Apple actually did that and then did a .... "one more thing ... it boots into Windows..." they could double their sales in the CONSUMER market.

Have fun whining and counter whining, but dissing the MacBook without looking at the bigger picture is not very interesting or enlightening reading.
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post #403 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
I hope you're not trying to imply that your ThinkPad X60 with your pirated OS X in any way compares to a MacBook. If we leave the ridiculously bad design aside, we still have to take into account that it doesn't have widescreen, has 23.2% less screen estate, has no optical drive (which, btw, significantly adds to the weight, of course) nor Bluetooth, comes with a slightly slower CPU and still costs $400 more.

Yes I am, so naaah naaah. I like light laptops and I there is bluetooth on the X60, screw the DVD. Plus my battery is 7 hours.
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post #404 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
You are the negative type, are you not?
You don't think along the line "oh what a wonderful machine,
what a beauty beast, competitive priced too." No, you rather
propose "weigh' an' heavy crap". Come on, man, apologize

No way man, they took away my 12 inch. I hate big laptops, I pay top dollar to own the smallest. I'm jut glad OSX works with other notebooks.
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post #405 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
Wow the whining has reached new levels:

1. The MacBook is a consumer laptop. It isn't supposed to have the best graphics or the lightest weight. With its specs it is the best CONSUMER laptop on the market even w/o the iApps.

That's fine, me understand. Where is my light notebook though. I assume the Macbook is Apples small notebook so they must be targeting the old 12 Inch crowd with it.
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post #406 of 441
Bitching is fun. If it wasn't for my wife I would never own a Apple consumer product, to cheap. I only buy Powerbooks and Powermacs, I was just making a comment, I think the Macbook is to heavy.
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post #407 of 441
Apple did not completely replace the 12-inch Powerbook. They pretty much said if you want pro preformance for pro apps you have to use a 15-inch or 17-inch laptop. Apparently many pro's don't use 12-inch Powerbooks.
post #408 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
the X60 Plus my battery is 7 hours.

Hah! My iPod pisses all over your X60! It's over 2 pounds lighter and has a 12 hour battery life!
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post #409 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by scavanger
Apple did not completely replace the 12-inch Powerbook. They pretty much said if you want pro preformance for pro apps you have to use a 15-inch or 17-inch laptop. Apparently many pro's don't use 12-inch Powerbooks.

That's it isn't it but who is the professional in mind, the creative professional sure, not the business man or programmer on the go. Apple egoist think what Apple gives is what we need but I'm here to tell you that's not true and their missing out. I have skipped this round of notebooks from Apple and will continue to until they give me a light notebook. I travel way to much to be hassled by a 5 pound notebook, you might think it's petty but ask Sony and Lenovo what their number 1 selling computers are, S series from Sony and X series from Lenovo. Us the business travelers desire small light notebooks, and yes I'm sure there are those who don't mind the weight but I'm not one of them.
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post #410 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Hah! My iPod pisses all over your X60! It's over 2 pounds lighter and has a 12 hour battery life!

Huh?
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post #411 of 441
Could you not post like 7 topics one after another and just edit your orignal ones maybe if you decide to add something? You want a sub notebook. The 12-inch Powerbook was not a sub notebook it was a smaller pro notebook. I doubt Apple will ever make a subnotebook, probably won't happen.
post #412 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by scavanger
Could you not post like 7 topics one after another and just edit your orignal ones maybe if you decide to add something? You want a sub notebook. The 12-inch Powerbook was not a sub notebook it was a smaller pro notebook. I doubt Apple will ever make a subnotebook, probably won't happen.


No, I've been a member long enough to reply which ever way I feel fit. You right about the 12 not being a sub but it was small enough to warrant a buy.
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post #413 of 441
I just love playing bad cop, the silly thing about it is I probably purchase more Apple products in a year then most of you would in a life time.
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post #414 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
Yes I am, so naaah naaah. I like light laptops and I there is bluetooth on the X60, screw the DVD. Plus my battery is 7 hours.

I think it helps that the X60 uses the "L" series chip, L2400, and to me, that helps make that notebook a better spec'd system. Apple uses the hotter "T" series chips, T2500 and up. "L" series consumes about half the power as the "T" series, 15W vs 31W at only a relatively minor reduction in clock in comparison, "L" series is currently available at 1.5GHz and 1.66GHz ratings.
post #415 of 441
Well there is another thread for this...as I mentioned in it, not making a 12" MBP would probably be a mistake and lose some sales.

IF they don't...maybe Relic's weight complaint is valid. Probably not though. And if they make a 12" MacBook Pro, they certainly aren't valid. Apple consumer stuff is cheap. Weight is probably the last consideration in iBooks/MacBooks/consumer stuff. Live with it. And hope they make a 12" MacBook Pro.
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post #416 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
IF they don't...maybe Relic's weight complaint is valid.

Relic's weight complaint is not valid. For those that missed it, that was the point of my iPod comment, you have to compare like with like. Relic accused Apple of being behind, when this is clearly not true. Take any comparable laptop, and the MacBook is generally sleeker and (slightly) lighter.

The question of an Apple ultraportable is separate. Do I think they should make one? Absolutely. If they did, it would own all other ultraportables. Unfortunately, the signs don't look good - Apple aren't giving any indications that they intend to make one .
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post #417 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Well there is another thread for this...as I mentioned in it, not making a 12" MBP would probably be a mistake and lose some sales.

IF they don't...maybe Relic's weight complaint is valid. Probably not though. And if they make a 12" MacBook Pro, they certainly aren't valid. Apple consumer stuff is cheap. Weight is probably the last consideration in iBooks/MacBooks/consumer stuff. Live with it. And hope they make a 12" MacBook Pro.

Not holding my breath but I don't need to. I love Solaris, NetBSD and Ubuntu Linux just a much as OSX. Apple not making a lighter notebook just means I buy from some one else and install one or all of the previous listed. No loss, just disappointment because I really like Apples design.
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post #418 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Take any comparable laptop, and the MacBook is generally sleeker and (slightly) lighter.

The Macbook is the heaviest 13.3 inch on the market except for the Panasonic CF-29 which is built like a tank. My complaint is valid, they discontinued the 12 inch and replaced it with a heavier model, where's my cake because I want to eat it to.
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post #419 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
The Macbook is the heaviest 13.3 inch on the market except for the Panasonic CF-29 which is built like a tank.

I asked you to show this by giving actual examples, but so far you have not done so.
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post #420 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
I asked you to show this by giving actual examples, but so far you have not done so.

Just from my experience with my MacBook, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was right. The first thing almost anyone says when they pick up my MB is 'Whoa, it's heavy.'

It's an extremely dense little machine.

(in terms of comparable hardware, it's probably par. in terms of screen size and absolute dimensions, it's considerably heavier than normal.)

Sony VAIO SZ series weighs 3.7 to 4 lbs.
Sharp M4000 weighs 3.7 lbs.
VAIO VGN series weighs 4.2 lbs.
Fujitsu Lifebook weighs 4.2 lbs.
Macbook weighs 5.2 lbs.
Panasonic Toughbook weighs 6 lbs.
post #421 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
I asked you to show this by giving actual examples, but so far you have not done so.

Geesh man, Asus, Sony, MSI, Fujitsu, ect. take your pick. Your argument in the end anyway will be about price and features blah blah, after they discontinued the 12 inch, the Macbook became the defacto light notebook from Apple. It just doesn't cut it in my book, I want something lighter.
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post #422 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by gloss
Just from my experience with my MacBook, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was right. The first thing almost anyone says when they pick up my MB is 'Whoa, it's heavy.'

It's an extremely dense little machine.

(in terms of comparable hardware, it's probably par. in terms of screen size and absolute dimensions, it's considerably heavier than normal.)

Sony VAIO SZ series weighs 3.7 to 4 lbs.
Sharp M4000 weighs 3.7 lbs.
VAIO VGN series weighs 4.2 lbs.
Fujitsu Lifebook weighs 4.2 lbs.
Macbook weighs 5.2 lbs.
Panasonic Toughbook weighs 6 lbs.

Thankyou for taking the time because I wasn't going to bother.
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post #423 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by gloss
Just from my experience with my MacBook, I wouldn't be at all surprised if he was right. The first thing almost anyone says when they pick up my MB is 'Whoa, it's heavy.'

It's an extremely dense little machine.

(in terms of comparable hardware, it's probably par. in terms of screen size and absolute dimensions, it's considerably heavier than normal.)

Sony VAIO SZ series weighs 3.7 to 4 lbs.
Sharp M4000 weighs 3.7 lbs.
VAIO VGN series weighs 4.2 lbs.
Fujitsu Lifebook weighs 4.2 lbs.
Macbook weighs 5.2 lbs.
Panasonic Toughbook weighs 6 lbs.

I think Mr. H's demand for a "comparable" notebook is somewhat disingenuous as it appears all the other 13" notebooks use LV and ULV chips, the MacBook uses the highest power consuming chips for mobile use, requiring a thicker and heavier notebook for heat management and batteries. LV and ULV chips can run a lot cooler and run longer with lighter batteries. There may not strictly comparable notebook because no one else seems to bother with the "T" series flame throwers for 13" notebooks.
post #424 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Hah! My iPod pisses all over your X60! It's over 2 pounds lighter and has a 12 hour battery life!

That's nothing. My Timex watch is significantly lighter and has a battery life not of hours, days, months, but years! Plus, its time-telling is more accurate than the iPod's, so nyah!
post #425 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
There may not strictly comparable notebook because no one else seems to bother with the "T" series flame throwers for 13" notebooks.

Because the target is light consumer/student use. As such they probably don't expect too much use away from a desk and power. And "travel" is from dorm room to starbucks.

A MacBook would make a poor travel notebook (except in comparison with some Dells some of us get saddled with).

The 17" MacBook Pro will be a good travel desktop replacement for me. I need horsepower more than size because developing on a sub-notebook is painful after working with dual monitor setups.

Vinea
post #426 of 441
post #427 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
I've got no clue, give me a hint if you don't mind.

its a song from Sheryl Crow "If it makes you happy"
post #428 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
That's nothing. My Timex watch is significantly lighter and has a battery life not of hours, days, months, but years! Plus, its time-telling is more accurate than the iPod's, so nyah!

That's nothing. My local power plant lights up an entire city and metro area. Plus, it produces radioactive waste and biohazardous materials. Beat that.
post #429 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
That's nothing. My local power plant lights up an entire city and metro area. Plus, it produces radioactive waste and biohazardous materials. Beat that.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/ma...-question.html
post #430 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
That's fine, me understand. Where is my light notebook though. I assume the Macbook is Apples small notebook so they must be targeting the old 12 Inch crowd with it.

I agree with you. I hope they come up with a MacBook Pro mini for you and the executives who want to travel with a pro laptop but don't need a big display to run PhotoShop and dozens fo palettes. I just wonder if Apple was even losing money on the 12"er.
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post #431 of 441
I'm just surprised that Apple hasn't seen the posibilities in getting a lighter machine for the K-12 market, especially for the K-7 grades. even 5 pounds is heavy for younger kids. They also don't need the utmost in computing power.

It seems to me that for that market, a Core Sole 1.67GHz chip 950 IG, a 12" screen, and a 3.5 pound weight would sell well. I can find other uses for it as well.
post #432 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
its a song from Sheryl Crow "If it makes you happy"

Thank you, i'll check it out
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post #433 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I'm just surprised that Apple hasn't seen the posibilities in getting a lighter machine for the K-12 market, especially for the K-7 grades. even 5 pounds is heavy for younger kids. They also don't need the utmost in computing power.

It seems to me that for that market, a Core Sole 1.67GHz chip 950 IG, a 12" screen, and a 3.5 pound weight would sell well. I can find other uses for it as well.

But generally in education markets the laptops are bolted to the desks so there isn't the question about weight so much as having everything, keyboard, track pad and display, in one place to save room. I don't understand the wight argument though, but maybe it's because I've never used a laptop extensively ... really is the difference between 4.6 pounds and 5.2 pounds a deal-breaker for people? It seems like the other 0.6 pounds shouldn't be a problem for pretty much ... well, anybody...

EDIT: I understand in some cases schools give the students a laptop for personal use, but these are usually high schools and they're not buying Macs for anything except their multimedia centers. I think a lot of schools have yet to see the value of buying a Mac. The smaller computer you proposed is nice - definitely suited for a k-12 education environment, but that could possibly be the only place a machine like that sells well. You've already seen how people are calling the MB "crippled" because it weighs as much as the sun and doesn't have dedicated graphics...

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post #434 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
I'm just surprised that Apple hasn't seen the posibilities in getting a lighter machine for the K-12 market, especially for the K-7 grades. even 5 pounds is heavy for younger kids. They also don't need the utmost in computing power.

It seems to me that for that market, a Core Sole 1.67GHz chip 950 IG, a 12" screen, and a 3.5 pound weight would sell well. I can find other uses for it as well.

Maybe the extra weight is good, if you can't get them to pump iron, at least they can pump LiON or whatever.

I think it is unfortunate that Apple doesn't see the point in a sub-note when seemingly every other company can manage to offer at least one, even brands that have a smaller market share and those still have a larger variety of products.

My understanding is that the Asia Pacific market is very keen on sub-notes such that not much else sells in the notebook market space. The lack of a sub-note could possibly explain why Apple is only selling a very small number of machines to that region.
post #435 of 441
I went back to the Apple Store yesterday as I was once again in the area. I wanted to investigate a couple of things about the MacBook.

First of all, the BlackBook marks very easily. I don't mean chips or scratches, but smudges. Being matte black really shows up oils from fingers/hands etc. I tried cleaning one of them up with various things from a clean handkerchief to a tissue and it didn't work that well. I do of course understand the huge volume of traffic at an Apple Store will speed this process along, and particularly with the BlackBooks. Still, over time this might be an issue for someone. Anyone got any suggestions as to what might remove these smudges from a matte surface.

I really do like the feel and design of the keyboard a lot on the BBs. I didn't really check out any white MacBooks because I'm definitely not in the market for that look. I did look for smudging, but that essentially was hardly there as the finish is shiny white not matte white. All the MBPs were clean - as with my PB 15" Aluminium..hardly any marking at all and clean up very easily.

The one thing that I *did* check for that I'd heard and read about in a number of forums was the issue of moving windows around in Safari and seeing if the screen flickers. I tried this on all the Intel Macs, from MBP to MB to iMac, and this happened on ALL of them....except one Intel iMac, which for some reason was completely fine. I mentioned this to an Apple Store salesman, and he said he'd never heard the complaint, but was interested to see what I was talking about so he accompanied me on the entire test and saw the results. He was going to put in a full report about it as well, so hopefuly that might help speed things along, you never know.

By the way, the Powermacs didn't exhibit this artifact at all, in any version or on any monitor size up to and including the 30".
post #436 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by auslander
Anyone got any suggestions as to what might remove these smudges from a matte surface?

I used rubbing alcohol on mine. It cleaned up good, in my opinion. As soon as I started using the 'Book again, more smudges appeared again.
post #437 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by auslander
...
The one thing that I *did* check for that I'd heard and read about in a number of forums was the issue of moving windows around in Safari and seeing if the screen flickers. I tried this on all the Intel Macs, from MBP to MB to iMac, and this happened on ALL of them....
...

I never heard about this issue.
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post #438 of 441
Quote:
Originally posted by Vox Barbara
I never heard about this issue.

I first read about it in the Apple support discussions at Apple.com.
post #439 of 441
I got my 1.83 Macbook with 1 gig of RAM today and this laptop ROCKS! I LOVE IT! GORGEOUS and so far no problems at all. The screen is bright and the glossyness is NO problem at all. The new keys are great, feel nice. That magsafe power plug is cool, stronger magnet than I thought it would have. This is a REALLY sweet laptop! Boots up fast too!

Great job Apple!

Tom
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post #440 of 441
Im getting my MacBook 1.83 Ghz tomorrow after all my semester tests.
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