or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › aren't we done with the 1 button mouse?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

aren't we done with the 1 button mouse?

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
isn't it time to have a 2 button laptops?
i guess we're through with that stupid 1 button

yeah apple has its own way in everything, but even if ur just using osx.. its really annoying :/


so when do u think they'd have a 2 button mouse in their laptops?
post #2 of 44
The 2-finger click seems to work well enough for me. I don't use right-click that often anyway.
post #3 of 44
two button mice on a trackpad is pretty culmsy to use imho, as it requires you to move your thumb in order to select which button to click.. Two finger click is more like right clicking on a regular mouse
post #4 of 44
I'm sold on the two fingers on the trackpad / click button. Much more ergonomic believe it or not.
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Reply
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Reply
post #5 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
I'm sold on the two fingers on the trackpad / click button. Much more ergonomic believe it or not.

Apple is class, pure and simple! Tell me, tell me, tell me about the new MacBook. Right cilcking, keyboard and magnetic latch, I must know
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #6 of 44
i wouldn't mind the OPTION to "hold and click" to simulate a right-click. i'd like that alternative on a one-button trackpad.
post #7 of 44
I completely agree with that!!
post #8 of 44
Hasn't this subject has been beaten to death?
post #9 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by monkeyastronaut
i wouldn't mind the OPTION to "hold and click" to simulate a right-click. i'd like that alternative on a one-button trackpad.

That option exists
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
Citing unnamed sources with limited but direct knowledge of the rumoured device - Comedy Insider (Feb 2014)
Reply
post #10 of 44
the other night i was on the phone helping my still windows based mother do something on the computer, and every time i said "click this" the unease that windows has created in her with respect to computers caused her to go "right click or left click"

every.....single....time.

Now my mom is a physician and works surrounded by computers monitoring her patients to keep them alive all day, every day. So, she's no dummy. She just hasn't had time to really figure out Windows. And really, the damn thing presents so many mental hurdles that she has to worry about when even walking up to the machine, that she's daunted. Daunted to the point where she has to stop and think "right click or left click" every time she wants to do something.

One button is much, much easier to deal with.

After I got off the phone with her I begged my dad to have them both switch. It's amazing how much easier it would be for them.
post #11 of 44
Yet somehow the economy hasn't collapsed because 97% of computer users are wondering what button to push.

My Mom: Do I have to keep going up to the menu to copy text?
Me: Just right-click on it and the menu will appear there.
Mom: Oooo.

Fitts law at work.
post #12 of 44
Apple WINS!

WOOHOOO!
post #13 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
I'm sold on the two fingers on the trackpad / click button. Much more ergonomic believe it or not.

Wow, now I'm sold. That sounds great.
post #14 of 44
I'd like them to do something alike the Mighty Mouse.. Would be awesome.
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
post #15 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
I'd like them to do something alike the Mighty Mouse.. Would be awesome.

ick. probably the one thing that Microsoft womps all over Apple design is Mice. That MM is (imho) a POS, to use a simple acronym.
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Reply
:-D * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Reply
post #16 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by IntlHarvester
Yet somehow the economy hasn't collapsed because 97% of computer users are wondering what button to push.

My Mom: Do I have to keep going up to the menu to copy text?
Me: Just right-click on it and the menu will appear there.
Mom: Oooo.

Fitts law at work.

so your mom is a genius. way to go. still makes it more complicated than it needs to be. cntrl C or option C works too.
post #17 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by sandau
ick. probably the one thing that Microsoft womps all over Apple design is Mice. That MM is (imho) a POS, to use a simple acronym.

Actually, I was'nt thinking of design (As that would be weird when we are talking about a laptop), I was thinking of the buttons being configurable. 1 button for those who wants it, 2 for those who wants that.
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
"There's no bigot like a religious bigot and there's no religion more fanatical than that espoused by Macintosh zealots." ~Martin Veitch, IT Week [31-01-2003]
Reply
post #18 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by icibaqu
so your mom is a genius. way to go. still makes it more complicated than it needs to be. cntrl C or option C works too.

Explain to me. How is using one button more complicated than using two?
post #19 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Lust
Explain to me. How is using one button more complicated than using two?

I think you mean less....unless your rudely agreeing with him???
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
post #20 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
I think you mean less....unless your rudely agreeing with him???

No, I was disagreeing with him. From what he quoted and what he said, it appears he supports the "one-button mouse" approach. Doing a mouse this way means you would have to use keys on the keyboard to use a right-click. Meaning two or more keys. With a two-button mouse, you're only using one button to right-click. See what I meant now?
post #21 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by icibaqu
so your mom is a genius. way to go. still makes it more complicated than it needs to be. cntrl C or option C works too.

Context Menu = Complicated
Memorizing Key Commands = Simple


I think that could easily be disproven with user studies.

(Edit: Actually your own post disproves it because Option-C is something else entirely. )
post #22 of 44
The one button mouse will die when it ceases to be a good option.

You can argue Fitts' Law into the ground, but the overwhelming majority of Windows users I deal with right click once shown how to (literally, as in someone standing over them pointing at the button). Once taught, they point the mouse at that exact place, and right click to get the same menu in the same application for the same reason. They're just following a recipe. If I had a dime for every time I'd done the "right click- no, right- the other button" dance with someone I'd be rich.

Mice point, and click (and scroll, if you feel like killing your wrists even faster). People understand that. Contextual menus require a deeper level of understanding (or a willingness to experiment, which is rare in an age where most people no longer feel like they control their own computers), and most people don't get there. If they have to go there, they follow recipes.

That's not even getting into the crapulent ergonomics of multi button mice.

I'm sorry, but there's no analogy between mice and keyboards, either. The mouse button has an abstract function. The 's' key produces the letter 's'. There are contexts where keystrokes have different meanings (vi, to pick an old favorite of mine, or browsers where the space bar pages through a document), but then there are at least as many contexts where contextual menus have different meanings—that being the whole point. I tend to use ALT-based keyboard combinations in Windows rather than CTRL based ones (ALT-F-S for save rather than CTRL-S) because in my experience the ALT key sequences are more consistent and more reliable. Despite the fact that it involves three whole buttons, typing ALT-F-S is a single motion that I execute unconsciously. I'd have to find the right place to right click to save (which varies from application to application and from state to state within an application), right click, scroll down to save, and select Save. Or I can whip off a quick series of keystrokes with no more thought or effort than it takes to type the word 'and' (less, actually, because it takes two hands to type 'and'). Big difference.

Or, I can go to the highly reliable file menu, find save, and choose it. May be slower, may not be. Depends on the context. What it is, is far more consistently there.

I'm not railing against contextual menus in general. When you have a feature rich application they can pull relevant features out from a dense thicket of options, in much the way that palettes (or Apple's context-sensitive Inspectors) do, and this is an unambiguous good thing. When the task is common enough, though, they're an extra layer of bother, because unless the interface is poorly designed there's a more generic element (especially: generic across applications, so you don't have to think about it) available to accomplish the same task.

It's all about the tool for the job. If I spent a lot of time in X11, I'd run out and buy a three button mouse without hesitation. For gamers, sure, two buttons is not so much valuable as necessary, and if I were a gamer I'd have a two-button scroller. As it is, I have always used a single button mouse with a Mac for the simple reason that it's the best tool for the job. It has almost never gotten in my way, and it has saved my wrists by allowing me to click with two or three fingers instead of one. YMMV, which is why there are so many mice on the market, and which is also why Apple made sure that their OS works with them all out of the box (except the MS mouse, but Apple can't do anything about MS deliberately crippling their hardware...).

So yes, the one button mouse lives. Muahahahahahahahahaha! Even if Apple starts leaning more heavily on contextual clicking I suspect they'll come up with a neater method than two physical buttons for their laptops. Right-clicking on laptops is a pain.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #23 of 44
when I use a mouse, I use a 2-button mouse. But with the trackpad, I ctrl-click. I find a two button trackpad confusing, on a Dell or Aspire also.
A trackpad for me is a temporary controller, when I'm travelling and can't use a mouse e.g
post #24 of 44
holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion. I think i'll start a thread about which color is beter: red or blue.
-The Dread Pirate Baily
Reply
-The Dread Pirate Baily
Reply
post #25 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
The one button mouse will die when it ceases to be a good option. [...]

Welcome back, Amorph! It's good to see that you have returned.
post #26 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by MisticMayhem
holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion. I think i'll start a thread about which color is beter: red or blue.

It's definitely red.
post #27 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
That's not even getting into the crapulent ergonomics of multi button mice.

Do you mean that the mouse designers were drunk or that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #28 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Do you mean that the mouse designers were drunk or that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk?

I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.

But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.

MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.
post #29 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
[i]I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.

But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999. [/B]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Reply
post #30 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.

But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.

MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.

ok
post #31 of 44
The problem with Apple is that it always went the route of the mono-clicker and it became a symbol of Mac simply because it differed from a PC.

I got frustrated with one-button mice years ago and the trouble is you don't realise until you use a multi-button mouse how useful the other buttons actually are.

Mighty Mouse is a step in the right direction but Apple still sell wireless one button mice.
post #32 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by MisticMayhem
holy shit, has anyone else noticed that this is a LONG page devoted to the argument of which is beter: two buttons or one. this is a simple matter of opinion.

No, it isn't. Ergonomics and usability aren't subjective.
post #33 of 44
Marvin's right -- this is more of a "Brand" issue than one of ergonomics or user friendliness. Macs have a menu bar and a one button mouse for the same reason BMWs have a kidney grille.
post #34 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
It's definitely red.

you've got to be joking. it's blue
post #35 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Ireland
That option exists

how do i enable that on macos x? i'm running tiger.
post #36 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by kim kap sol
I think he meant that the mouse designers were drunk. It's not uncommon to see hardware companies insist that the mouse ergonomics are conceptualized by people under heavy alcohol influence.

But there's also a possibility that he meant that it's difficult to use a multi-button mouse when drunk. The last few years have seen an marked increase in impaired mousing. Studies have shown that multi-button mice are indeed difficult to operate in the state of crapulence. Mis-clicks, in this condition, causing the kernel to crash has been on the rise since 1999.

MADD (Mac-users Against Drunk Device-clicking) have been a huge proponent of the one-button mouse because it's very difficult to click the wrong button when there's only one to push.

Yes, exactly.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #37 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Amorph
Even if Apple starts leaning more heavily on contextual clicking I suspect they'll come up with a neater method than two physical buttons for their laptops. Right-clicking on laptops is a pain.

And completely unnecessary with the CTRL key about 3" away on either side of the track pad.
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #38 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Matsu
And completely unnecessary with the CTRL key about 3" away on either side of the track pad.

Sometimes while using a computer you can only use one hand. I don't just mean during masturbation either - there are disabled people too. How does a one armed person do a right-click?

I nearly lost one of my arms (it's fine now though) and I can assure you, having a 5-button mouse was and still is very useful.

Of course, you could say why not have a middle-click on laptops too because loads of software uses that for panning and is the equivalent of alt-click. Well, I wouldn't say no to that either.

Y'see, it's not just a case of being able to make a single click. Some software requires you to right-click and then scroll. That's very difficult to do with a Mac laptop without hurting yourself.
post #39 of 44
No one has mentioned the transition back and forth from mouse to track-pad. Typically, with a two button mouse, you build up a movement habit of using your pointer for the "normal" left click and your middle finger for the the less-common right click. This relates to the way many of us use these fingers (although this certainly can be argued): the pointer gets used a lot more for different things than the middle finger.

When we move to a track-pad and it's single button (on a Mac), we typically use ONLY our thumb. So this one finger must do double duty on a PC laptop, hitting both the left and right buttons when needed. This action is a lot more awkward. I'll bet Apple has figured this out, as their new "two fingers on the track pad = right click" demonstrates the same idea: normal clicking with a single finger vs multiple fingers for special clicks.
c l o n e n o d e
o n e o f m a n y
Reply
c l o n e n o d e
o n e o f m a n y
Reply
post #40 of 44
Quote:
Originally posted by Marvin
Sometimes while using a computer you can only use one hand. I don't just mean during masturbation either - there are disabled people too. How does a one armed person do a right-click?

I nearly lost one of my arms (it's fine now though) and I can assure you, having a 5-button mouse was and still is very useful.

Of course, you could say why not have a middle-click on laptops too because loads of software uses that for panning and is the equivalent of alt-click. Well, I wouldn't say no to that either.

Y'see, it's not just a case of being able to make a single click. Some software requires you to right-click and then scroll. That's very difficult to do with a Mac laptop without hurting yourself.

Right-click and scroll?

Most Mac apps (especially Apple apps) offer the 'context' options within the 'gear' button. Apps that don't offer this option are stupid and shouldn't be considered. So one-armed, two-armed, three-armed...it doesn't matter, The context options aren't (in theory) hidden or only accesible via right-clicks.

This is what seperates the man GUIs from the boy GUIs. Most OS X apps (that matter) don't rely on multibutton mice.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › aren't we done with the 1 button mouse?