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Mac OS X 10.4.7 to tackle mail and browser issues - Page 2

post #41 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
So we should continue with the belief that the earth is flat, stars are pinpoints in the fabric of the sky, and that the Earth is 6,000 years old all because, at some point, the majority of people thought so?

It's only recently that the belief that the Earth was flat took hold. Sometime in the 1800s. Before that everyone thought it was spherical back to the Greeks calculating the circumference even.
post #42 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by thetru7h
remember OS9? (or was is OS8 or system 7?) apple menu -> "about the finder"

Nope; my pre-X Mac OS usage was minimal.
Quote:
Mail is Mail, Safari is Safari but the Finder is the Macintosh Finder

If you say so.

And welcome to the AI Forums.
post #43 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
So we should continue with the belief that the earth is flat, stars are pinpoints in the fabric of the sky, and that the Earth is 6,000 years old all because, at some point, the majority of people thought so?

It's called education. It's a good thing. Wrong is wrong.

It's not convention, it's just silly fear over nothing.

dude, i bet you're also the one going up to 5 year olds telling them santa doesn't exist at christmas time. helio-centric versus geo-cetric galaxy? yeah, that's big, important stuff that should be correct. versioning numbers on software that'll be obsolete in three years anyway? just let us enjoy the nonsensicality of it, wouldja?
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post #44 of 83
good thing apple doesn't assign version numbers with the dewey decimal system. if they did, 10.4.10 would come before 10.4.2, and boy, wouldn't that be confusing.

for the record, i think 10.4.10 is an entirely logical and marketable successor to 10.4.9. and if the 9 to 10 version number rollover were so taboo, how does one explain os x? :-)

frankly, i don't care what they call their versions, as long as safari stops eating 1.25 gb of virtual memory even when i have only one simple page open.
post #45 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
So we should continue with the belief that the earth is flat, stars are pinpoints in the fabric of the sky, ...

Damn, I'm not saying I believe that, just pointing out that that's what most people think.

Take any average joe computer user (IOW someone that doesn't come here) and ask him/her what comes after 10.3.9. You'll probably hear "10.4" if they don't say "HUH?"

So yeah, we need to educate people. It's not an issue of fear and it's not anywhere on the same level as the flat/round world issue. Jeez.
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post #46 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by rebel_without_a_pc
Because it isn't called "Apple Mail."

It is called AppleMail. Look at the headers it generates sometimes.

It's called Mail in the Finder because having AppleCalculator AppleAddressBook AppleFontBook ApplePreview is just annoying. Remember "Apple System Profiler"?
post #47 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by CosmoNut
Take any average joe computer user (IOW someone that doesn't come here) and ask him/her what comes after 10.3.9. You'll probably hear "10.4" if they don't say "HUH?".

Then he better get back into elementary school because any 5-th grader knows that there can only be one decimal point in a given number. Anyone that doesn't know that is ripe for isolation from the community of citizens until they understand that basic math concept and start applying it to real-word situations.
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post #48 of 83
rebel_without_a_pc, your nasty remarks are not appreciated.

Knock it off.
--Johnny
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post #49 of 83
No, and how do I do that?

Thanks ! !
post #50 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by hledgard
No, and how do I do that?

Thanks ! !

Run Disk Utility found in your Utilities folder (when in Finder press CMD-SHIFT-U). Click on Repair Permissions and let it do it's thing.
post #51 of 83
Thanks Crees.

Wow, got my hopes way up, alas, no luck. Same message. It only shows "On my Mac" for options.

Repairing permissions for Macintosh HD
Determining correct file permissions.
User differs on ./Library/Mail, should be 0, owner is 501
Owner and group corrected on ./Library/Mail
Permissions corrected on ./Library/Mail
User differs on ./Users/.localized, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./Users/.localized, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./Users/.localized
Permissions corrected on ./Users/.localized
User differs on ./Users/Shared/.localized, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./Users/Shared/.localized, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./Users/Shared/.localized
Permissions corrected on ./Users/Shared/.localized
User differs on ./Users/Shared, should be 0, owner is 501
Group differs on ./Users/Shared, should be 0, group is 80
Owner and group corrected on ./Users/Shared
Permissions corrected on ./Users/Shared
User differs on ./Users, should be 0, owner is 501
Permissions differ on ./Users, should be drwxrwxr-t , they are drwxrwxrwt
Owner and group corrected on ./Users
Permissions corrected on ./Users
Group differs on ./private/etc/authorization, should be 80, group is 0
Owner and group corrected on ./private/etc/authorization
Permissions corrected on ./private/etc/authorization
Permissions differ on ./private/var/log/secure.log, should be -rw------- , they are -rw-r-----
Owner and group corrected on ./private/var/log/secure.log
Permissions corrected on ./private/var/log/secure.log

Permissions repair complete
The privileges have been verified or repaired on the selected volume

????
post #52 of 83
Now it'd be really great if sometime they make spotlight actually WORK. It has decided to not return any results from 95% of words I search for in Mail. This has caused me a LOT of frustration. I'll try reindexing sometime soon and see if that fixes it. It really so far only seems to not work in Mail though...the place I use, or would use, it most. \
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post #53 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Aquatic
Now it'd be really great if sometime they make spotlight actually WORK. It has decided to not return any results from 95% of words I search for in Mail. This has caused me a LOT of frustration. I'll try reindexing sometime soon and see if that fixes it. It really so far only seems to not work in Mail though...the place I use, or would use, it most. \

I am having a very similar issue in my Mail.app as well. It was working just fine, however I think that the spotlight feature got broken in the 10.4.6 release.

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post #54 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by rok
regarding the not junk thing, here's the solution (i think): basically, apple has relegated most fo the junk/not junk training to its toolbar buttons. so you HAVE to have the junk button as part of your message reading window. then, when you open a message in its own window, the button will VERY subtly change between being labeled "junk" or "not junk" and you HAVE to have text AND icons showing int he toolbar, or else you'd never know, because the button icon itself doesn't change.

it's actually a pretty friggin' bizarre human-interface thing, with the downside that you can very-likely LOSE e-mail if your filter's not behaving properly.

Thanks, but the real problem is that the option to even select junk/not junk is missing. (no brown bag icon/no brown header when the mesage is opened) This is only for a very few messgaes. I get probably 50 junk mails a day for all my addresses and Mail does a very good job sending them to the junk folder, where they get the junk icon etc.
post #55 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Kolchak
1) If there's no button, then do it the "hard" way. Just drag the message out of the Junk folder into your regular inbox.

2) You appear to be "special" on this one. My 12 POP accounts all delete from server as specified in the prefs.

1) Even if I drag one these incorectly tagged mails to the normal folder, the next time I get mail from that same person it will still be sent to junk. I've alos added their names/addresses to my Adress book and it doesn't help. They just sem to be black-listed by Mail and there is nothing i can do about it. I've considered reseting Mail back to the default setting and starting the whole thing over, but then i have to eal with all the Junk mail training again.

2) Ah to be special...

Thanks for your reply
post #56 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
1) Even if I drag one these incorectly tagged mails to the normal folder, the next time I get mail from that same person it will still be sent to junk. I've alos added their names/addresses to my Adress book and it doesn't help. They just sem to be black-listed by Mail and there is nothing i can do about it. I've considered reseting Mail back to the default setting and starting the whole thing over, but then i have to eal with all the Junk mail training again.

I am going to assume for a minute that you are meaning for those emails to be automatically dropped into some other folder through the use of rules. If that is the case, check your rule for that type of email. It might be that you accidently set it to drop it into the Junk Folder. Since it isn't being "marked" as Junk, that is why you don't have the brown header.

-- UPDATE --
I just got done testing that theory out, and the results match what you are experiencing. I would check your rules.

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

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-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

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post #57 of 83
I certainly hope this report is true. Mail.app has been a drag for the last few dot releases.

It marks most of my sent mail junk. It marks the bulk of my incoming mail junk. If it can't decide what something is, it turns the text white so that it only shows up when I highlight the item. And best of all, if I tell Mail that something is not junk, it only occasionally turns the text black. So I have lots of brown emails and a few invisible ones, all valid.

The sooner they get this crap cleaned up, the better. I've noticed that the less reliable the wireless connection I'm using is, the more freaked out Mail.app gets, so I'm guessing it's usually tested on a big fat wired LAN.
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post #58 of 83
10.4.7 better include CUPS 1.2 and all the fixes and some functionality that currently only works in OS X.
post #59 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
1) Even if I drag one these incorectly tagged mails to the normal folder, the next time I get mail from that same person it will still be sent to junk. I've alos added their names/addresses to my Adress book and it doesn't help. They just sem to be black-listed by Mail and there is nothing i can do about it. I've considered reseting Mail back to the default setting and starting the whole thing over, but then i have to eal with all the Junk mail training again.

Can I suggest you change you mail provider to one that runs anti-spam on the server, especially Spam Assassin as Apple Mail understands Spam Assassin headers.

I rarely see spam hit my inbox, and I run a hosting company!
post #60 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Mike Eggleston
I am going to assume for a minute that you are meaning for those emails to be automatically dropped into some other folder through the use of rules. If that is the case, check your rule for that type of email. It might be that you accidently set it to drop it into the Junk Folder. Since it isn't being "marked" as Junk, that is why you don't have the brown header.

-- UPDATE --
I just got done testing that theory out, and the results match what you are experiencing. I would check your rules.

Thanks for your help!

I went and looked through the rules and couldn't find anything that would be causing the behavior. Funny thing is that after doing that, I went to look at my junk folder and a several sets (senders) of old e-mails that had been in my inbox got transfered to the junk. Included was a batch from one of the 'problem senders'. While looking at the rules, all I changed was to delete two old rules that no longer applied, so why should that cause good mail to get transferred? Weird.

My solution for one of the misbehaving senders (a newsletter from some guy) was simple to kill the subsription on my home e-mail account and the re-subscribe on my dotMac account. Now his mails end up in my In Box. I'd be tempted to blame my providers junk mail rules, but the strange behavior also happens with a couple of senders on my work e-mail.

Currently my best solution is to look through the junk folder and focus on e-mails with no junk icon and make sure they belong there. not the end of the world, just annoying.

Thanks again.
post #61 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Can I suggest you change you mail provider to one that runs anti-spam on the server, especially Spam Assassin as Apple Mail understands Spam Assassin headers.

I rarely see spam hit my inbox, and I run a hosting company!

The odd behavior I was trying to describe was mail, form senders in my address book, going to junk mail, not the other way around.
post #62 of 83
Could you set up a workaround rule that would go through the Junk mail folder and automatically drop those legit mails back into the inbox?

Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
Thanks for your help!

I went and looked through the rules and couldn't find anything that would be causing the behavior. Funny thing is that after doing that, I went to look at my junk folder and a several sets (senders) of old e-mails that had been in my inbox got transfered to the junk. Included was a batch from one of the 'problem senders'. While looking at the rules, all I changed was to delete two old rules that no longer applied, so why should that cause good mail to get transferred? Weird.

My solution for one of the misbehaving senders (a newsletter from some guy) was simple to kill the subsription on my home e-mail account and the re-subscribe on my dotMac account. Now his mails end up in my In Box. I'd be tempted to blame my providers junk mail rules, but the strange behavior also happens with a couple of senders on my work e-mail.

Currently my best solution is to look through the junk folder and focus on e-mails with no junk icon and make sure they belong there. not the end of the world, just annoying.

Thanks again.
post #63 of 83
Well, 10.4.6 introduced more bugs, such as the cusor disappearing and apps losing focus along with other strange behaviors (Mail is still jacked up, and I often can't send mail at all due to some Mail SMTP issue)

More importantly, since they came out, the intel iMacs airport fails when resuming from full sleep, forcing a restart. I reported the bug through the developer connection and it is a known issue, but still not fixed. You would think having networking not function would be a sev 1 issue wouldn't you?
post #64 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by amac4me
Apple is ahead despite the Intel transition. "Redmond, your copy machines are slow"

Imagine the Buzz

Its off topic, but Ooo... I like it... they should use that!
post #65 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Carson O'Genic
I have some ongoing bug issues with Mail and I hope they get resolved.

1) Certain e-mails get sent to Junk and there is nothing I can do about it. The addresses are in my Address Book and there is no 'junk icon' on the the e-mails that lets me tell the program that it is 'not junk.'

2) Preferences for when to delete e-mail from the server never stick. IF I quit the program then it reverts to never delete.

Anybody else have these issues or am I 'special' ?

I can confirm both.. I have that issue too. My own mail gets deleted when I try to send mail to my wife on the same box, and I'm the owner of the box.

here's more:

Junk filters won't block Apple mail - at least not for me. I pick junk for every apple mail that comes in, and its never junked.

Trying to set up two mail accounts within the same user ends up breaking outbound mail somehow where both accounts fail with SMTP errors.

I bought this machine in large part due to its app integration, but am finding mail pretty useless, and safari unable to play most media I run across on the internet (I'm on intel imac). iPhoto crashed fatally several times and has a number of annoying bugs.

Hmmm I guess I should have waited a while for a stable OS.. Looks to me like Apple is falling for the "features" over function problem..
post #66 of 83
Um... if you want to junk Apple emails, just change your Apple ID prefernces. Duh. Apple doesn't send unsolicited email.
post #67 of 83
Vista will still be delayed as they try to get their Tiger down.

As soon as Vista is released Apple will be on to 10.6!

Long before longhorn indeed!
post #68 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
I can confirm both.. I have that issue too. My own mail gets deleted when I try to send mail to my wife on the same box, and I'm the owner of the box.

Not had that one. Maybe you've not set the accounts up correctly.

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
Junk filters won't block Apple mail - at least not for me. I pick junk for every apple mail that comes in, and its never junked.

That's because most mail from apple is just one big image or set of images. The junk mail filter won't work on that. Also, you've probably got Apple in your address book so the mail will be coming from someone you know. And as a previous reply said, Apple only sends mail if you subscribe to their mailouts. There's an 'unsubscribe' link in the bottom of every mail from them.


Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
Trying to set up two mail accounts within the same user ends up breaking outbound mail somehow where both accounts fail with SMTP errors.

I've 11 mail accounts in mail. 4 different mail servers. 2 IMAP and the rest POP/SMTP. I never have errors other than those when the network is down. I get a couple of hundred emails a day.

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
I bought this machine in large part due to its app integration, but am finding mail pretty useless, and safari unable to play most media I run across on the internet (I'm on intel imac). iPhoto crashed fatally several times and has a number of annoying bugs.

Make sure you have the latest Quicktime 7 and that you've installed the WMV Plugin from http://www.flip4mac.com/

I don't know why you're finding Mail useless. IMHO it's one of the better pieces in OSX although I prefered OSX 10.3's Mail. iPhoto06 has never crashed for me either and I love it, but then my opinion is tainted by having to suffer iPhoto 05 - which was unusable. If they fixed the redeye tool (ie. put it back to iPhoto 2's method) I'd be happy.

Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
Hmmm I guess I should have waited a while for a stable OS.. Looks to me like Apple is falling for the "features" over function problem..

I wouldn't have said so but it always amazes me that I can never have problems but then some other user who does something differently (wrongly or rightly) can get into quite a mess.
post #69 of 83
Some differences....

Most of this stuff worked fine on my G5 - and started up when I got my MacIntel.

The mail stuff was fine a couple point releases ago, and worked great on my G5. I never had any problems with iPhoto5 either, but on intel, iPhoto and mail are truly jacked up. I've done all sorts of stuff and if you look on the apple support site, you will find dozens of others with the same problems.

Flipformac doesn't work on intel either.

I got the dissapearing cursor in Safari again last night (triggered while in safari, but cursor was gone for all apps)

its all fixable - eventually. You would probably feel different if your finder crashed and took out your whole machine too (copy too many files to the desktop, and computer goes bye-bye), or iPhoto dumped and you lost all your albums and meta data and had to redo thousands of pictures (Twice)... I've had Apples since before the Mac, and things are less stable than I've ever experienced. It sucks that I'm half afraid of tripping over another fatal bug and have to backup constantly to not lose data. I've got 6 pages of bugs documented, and have been slowly feeding them to Apples internal reporter - most are already known...

I'd say, if you are on a G5, wait another generation before going intel!
post #70 of 83
The first G5 towers shipped with 10.2 but started to shine when 10.3 was released. I would expect that the intel Macs fare better with the latest OS updates and I'd wager a good deal of 10.5 will be making intel scream that much more.

I don't see staying away from the intel machines though. But I do have a dual G5 tower so my machine's power will last me another 6-12 months.
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post #71 of 83
One thing I like about Thunderbird, and the reason I won't use Mail until it has it, is one button per mail that allows me to mark any given mail as junk and it automatically moves it to the junk folder. A single click vs. two clicks or a click and key combination. IIRC, the default Mail "mark junk" key combination was something like three keys simultaneously. It's so for Thunderbird, marking junk is quick and I don't have to think about it. Mail's method seemed pretty backward and inefficient to me.
post #72 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
One thing I like about Thunderbird, and the reason I won't use Mail until it has it, is one button per mail that allows me to mark any given mail as junk and it automatically moves it to the junk folder. A single click vs. two clicks or a click and key combination. IIRC, the default Mail "mark junk" key combination was something like three keys simultaneously. It's so for Thunderbird, marking junk is quick and I don't have to think about it. Mail's method seemed pretty backward and inefficient to me.

Another thing that seems odd; if you go the the junk folder and mark something as not junk, it doesn't move it out; it leaves it in junk. I understand the logic, but don't like that either.

I'm an 'early adopter', so I jumped on the latest hardware, but this is the first time I've thought that wasn't the smartest thing to do (I've had two generations of the G5 imac too oh, and have a G3 also)
post #73 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
Another thing that seems odd; if you go the the junk folder and mark something as not junk, it doesn't move it out; it leaves it in junk. I understand the logic, but don't like that either.

Unfortunately, Thunderbird behaves the same in this regard, unless there is a setting I haven't seen.
post #74 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
One thing I like about Thunderbird, and the reason I won't use Mail until it has it, is one button per mail that allows me to mark any given mail as junk and it automatically moves it to the junk folder.

Add the "Mark as Junk" button to the toolbar. Works on one or many messages, whatever you have selected. You can do the same in the individual message window. When you're in the Junk folder, or looking at a Junked message, it becomes "Mark as Not Junk", so it just toggles.
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post #75 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
One thing I like about Thunderbird, and the reason I won't use Mail until it has it, is one button per mail that allows me to mark any given mail as junk and it automatically moves it to the junk folder. A single click vs. two clicks or a click and key combination. IIRC, the default Mail "mark junk" key combination was something like three keys simultaneously. It's so for Thunderbird, marking junk is quick and I don't have to think about it. Mail's method seemed pretty backward and inefficient to me.

The Junk Mail icon in the toolbar does this already when you're not running in training mode atleast - I can't remember what it does in non-training mode. Always has done. You click it, the mail disappears to the junk mail folder.

Shift-Command-J is the keyboard equivalent. You can of course change that to anything you fancy.
post #76 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Add the "Mark as Junk" button to the toolbar. Works on one or many messages, whatever you have selected. You can do the same in the individual message window. When you're in the Junk folder, or looking at a Junked message, it becomes "Mark as Not Junk", so it just toggles.

I've done that, but it's not in-line with with the individual mail, the in-line button is more efficient. At any given time, but many times a day, I usually only get one or two junks that don't automatically get junked and I've found that Thunderbird's method to be far better and a lot more efficient for me.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Shift-Command-J is the keyboard equivalent. You can of course change that to anything you fancy.

That was the brain damaged three key combination that I was complaining about. The default combination shouldn't be more than two keys. I know it can be changed, but that process is somewhat tedious as well.
post #77 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
Another thing that seems odd; if you go the the junk folder and mark something as not junk, it doesn't move it out; it leaves it in junk. I understand the logic, but don't like that either.

Where would it put it?

If it put it in your inbox it would be ignoring your rules.

If it didn't ignore the rules, then it'd end back in Junk!


Quote:
Originally posted by Spinnetti
I'm an 'early adopter', so I jumped on the latest hardware, but this is the first time I've thought that wasn't the smartest thing to do (I've had two generations of the G5 imac too oh, and have a G3 also)

Someone has to be my test patsy.

Seriously though. The writing was on the wall. It's a stop gap CPU for Intel. It's Apple's first foray into Intel tech and it's midstream in the OS.

I'm waiting for the Core architecure, the second set of intel Macs and OSX 10.5.
post #78 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Where would it put it?

If it put it in your inbox it would be ignoring your rules.

If it didn't ignore the rules, then it'd end back in Junk!




Someone has to be my test patsy.

Seriously though. The writing was on the wall. It's a stop gap CPU for Intel. It's Apple's first foray into Intel tech and it's midstream in the OS.

I'm waiting for the Core architecure, the second set of intel Macs and OSX 10.5.

Well, it goes like this:
> "It puts the message in the junk folder"
> "It puts the lotion on... " no, wait.. I mean I look at the mail, mark it as not-junk, then it should put it BACK in the inbox. Think it over again.. its how it should work, since it put it in the wrong folder to start with - it SHOULD be in the inbox where it was supposed to go.

On the hardware front, I'm waiting too - then I'll upgrade again, making it my 5th iMac
post #79 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
It's historical.

Mail.app is one of the applications carried over from NeXT almost unchanged until they destroyed it in 10.4. In NeXTStep applications showed the extension.

What I can't get with the updates is that Calculator seems to change with every update. Do they break it each time and let some intern cut their teeth on software releases as an exercise? Or is teh Steve still fiddling with the calculator construction set ?

Dont forget that 10.4 also shows app extensions now too.

Microsoft had an app called "Mail" too (Microsoft Mail).

Since the word "mail" is used a lot, its smart to refer to Apple's Mail.app so that once can discern the application Mail from the topic of mail.

"I launched mail to get my mail, and then I read a new mail that said I can get a 50% discount on Viagra by mail".
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post #80 of 83
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
What's wrong with 10.4.10? 10.4.11? 10.4.12?

Microsoft had Windows 3.11 and it was no big deal so I see no reason for Apple not to have Mac OS X 4.10, 4.11, etc., which is really how it should be written.
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