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New Macbook Overheat Problems already!! - Page 3

post #81 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Res
Unfortunately, it also shows that I don't have much of a real life...

 

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post #82 of 131
I got a 2 GHz Macbook over the weekend. It gets a little warm but so does the Dell POS notebook I have to use for work, so it seems fairly normal to me.
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post #83 of 131
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:

post #84 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by netdog
He had a kernel panic. The question is obviously "why?" I haven't had one yet, and my iMac only had one when I loaded an early beta of Parallels. This doesn't sound like a heat problem to me.

FWIW, mine runs warm but not hot, and is incredibly quiet. have nothing but great things to say about the MacBook after three days.

I just had one this morning I have had now at least 10 kernal panics since buying the MBP.

I think it is just a function of the immature hardware and apple goodness.

I can't wait till they work out the bugs and I can buy another. This one will go on ebay. I might however, have to walk to the new apple store in NYC and have them fix it....

grrr!!! not because it overheats but because of the huge lines at the store!!!
post #85 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
I just had one this morning I have had now at least 10 kernal panics since buying the MBP.


I'd be taking that baby back for a checkup. I don't care how long the lines are..

On topic: Yesterday I was at the local Apple store and I noticed that the white Macbooks were much warmer to the touch than the Black models.
post #86 of 131
I've had my MacBook for a few days now and haven't had any significant heat issues... It seems to hover around 40C when idle... it peaks at about 70C under a significant load. It seems to run warmer under XP (using BootCamp)... I'm not sure if that's a power management issue or because I pretty much just installed XP... and as everyone knows... unlike OS X... after you install XP... next you install anti-virus software, anti-adware software, cd/dvd burning software, DVD viewing software... and so on... and so on. I think the temp probably cranked up a bit because I had it running at full throttle for a while. But even then the fan was barely noticeable. To be honest... when the fan first came on... it was just for a second or two at a time and I could barely hear it. With all the problems with different noises the Pros had... I was afraid they MacBooks may be suffering from some "newborn" problems as well. When I checked the temp, I realized it was high enough for the fan to go on. It was just so quiet and brief I thought it was something else. Some of my Compaq/HP notebooks sound like jets when the fans come on... but I know how much Steve hates fans. I haven't had any problem with using it on my lap. To be honest... and for the life of me I can't figure out the design concept here, I have 4 Compaq / HP notebooks and they all have the air intake for the fan on the bottom. Put those babies on your lap and you pretty much kill 90% of the cooling ability.
post #87 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:


That is so cute it makes my eyes bleed.
post #88 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:


you can tell that's an iBook from the power connector. But yes, Macs make pussy warm.
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post #89 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:


 

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post #90 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
[B]Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:

Just wait till the little kitty grows into a fullsize cat... You will need a 17" MBP...
post #91 of 131
Here is a guy who experimented with the thermal paste theory for the MBP

The result of the test shows there was very little change with applying new thermal paste.

He discovered with the heat sensors disconnected the fans blew full on. He said this situation actually kept the MBP cool. He said extremely cool, but extremely loud.

From this he feels the thermal paste has less to do with the over heating than the fans blowing. And that Apple needs to find a balance between fan noise and keeping the MBP at good working temperatures.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/6605
post #92 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
[B]Here is a guy who experimented with the thermal paste theory for the MBP

The result of the test shows there was very little change with applying new thermal paste.

He didn't measure the MacBook before he went in, did he? He's comparing it against an "unmodified" unit, but there may be variations on how hot each unit gets due to variations on the chip fabrication, and variations on the thermal paste thickness. Some get hot enough to be taken back (128F), others don't. The better way would have been to measure before and after, not against a similar unit to be sure those other variations are acounted.
post #93 of 131
128F is hot enough to be taken back? That's just over 53C... my machine reaches that with a modest load and feels warm (not hot) at that temp. With a heavy load, I have seen it go up to the 60s (I'd imagine it has gone higher, but I didn't have a utility running to see the temp). I'm hoping that 128F isn't considered especially hot.
post #94 of 131
That's true he should have taken a measurement before.

But even after the re-pasting his MBP still got up to 114F-121F in some places.

Which shows there still is not dramatic decrease in temperature.
post #95 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Joey
128F is hot enough to be taken back? That's just over 53C... my machine reaches that with a modest load and feels warm (not hot) at that temp. With a heavy load, I have seen it go up to the 60s (I'd imagine it has gone higher, but I didn't have a utility running to see the temp). I'm hoping that 128F isn't considered especially hot.

An external surface temperature hotter than 128F is supposedly hot enough to take it back, and that surface temperature was what was being tested. The CPU core gets even hotter than the surface temperature, and that is what you are measuring, I think.

My 1.83GHz MBP gets a minimum core temp of about 60C and has hit 80C, comparing to your numbers, mine is a good canidate for a mod, which I am preparing to do soon.
post #96 of 131
Even though the guy in the article did not measure before his modification. I'm sure he would have noticed his MBP decrease from 140F-170F (damn that's hot) to 114F-120F.

Apple should perhaps give us the choice of running the fans longer (more noise) for a cooler machine or run the fans less (less noise) with a warmer machine.
post #97 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by TenoBell
Even though the guy in the article did not measure before his modification. I'm sure he would have noticed his MBP decrease from 140F-170F (damn that's hot) to 114F-120F.

You are mixing up core temperature and surface temperature. No one suggested that the surface was getting to 140F and above. The core temperature is allowed to get that hot though.
post #98 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by matracer
Oh no..just read this review.
Pictures of Macbook crash due to overheating sounds like bad news to me.
I really want one of these but now..i dont think so.

To you and the others who leapt to that conclusion: can you say "overreact"?

That review has been updated: "getting an exchange unit took about 30 minutes. ..So far with the exchanged MacBook there's been no crashing so it is definite fact that the original MacBook I had was faulty"

One report in isolation does NOT constitute information on which to draw conclusions. It's called ANECDOTAL evidence. The forums are getting disappointingly juvenile (note other forum thread on 911 conspiracy theory: if we're to take these two threads together and grant them any credence, it's the world-wide conspiracy that caused that particular macbook to fail).

Let's all be calm and use considered thought.

peace
terry
post #99 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
I am an electronics engineer, and I can tell you, it is a non-disputable fact that the amount of thermal paste illustrated in that photo is around two orders of magnitude too much. If it isn't the sole cause of heat problems, it is definitely a contributor (in the MacBook Pro, and possibly in the MacBook if that is how much they are using in production).

edit: fixed a spelling mistake

What is the purpose of the thermal paste? Does the paste get put over the hottest part of the processor so the heat is dissipated, or does the paste absorb heat, but does not get hot?
post #100 of 131
Quote:
You are mixing up core temperature and surface temperature. No one suggested that the surface was getting to 140F and above. The core temperature is allowed to get that hot though.

OK you are talking about internal temp.
post #101 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by troberts
What is the purpose of the thermal paste? Does the paste get put over the hottest part of the processor so the heat is dissipated, or does the paste absorb heat, but does not get hot?

Whilst a chip surface and metal surface look totally smooth to the naked eye, on a microscopic level they look more like mountain ranges. This means that when you bring them together, there will only be a few places where you actually get chip->metal contact. The rest of the surface area is chip->air->metal.

Air is a pretty good insulator when compared to copper. The idea of thermal paste is to replace the air gaps with paste, which is a much better conductor of heat than air, but still a lot worse than copper.

When trying to remove heat (which is energy) from a CPU die, you need to minimise the thermal resistance between it and the place you are trying to move the heat energy to (in this case, the ambient air). The higher the resistance, the higher the die temperature will rise. There is a small thermal resistance between the die and the topside of the chip, but there is a large thermal resistance between the topside of the chip and the ambient air (it cannot dissipate heat well to the atmosphere). So, you need to mate the top of the chip to something that has a low thermal resistance to ambient air: a heatsink. You want to minimise the thermal resistance between the topside of the chip and the heatsink. Using no thermal paste will introduce a thermal resistance due to the air, which can be reduced if the air is replaced with paste. Use too much paste, however, and not only have you replaced the air with paste, you've also separated the points that used to closely touch with paste. There's also the possibility, if the paste doesn't spread evenly, that areas of chip and metal that used to be in proximity are not anymore. Finally, when the paste spills over the side, you have reduced the thermal resistance to other parts of the chip, enabling heat to flow more easily than before to those areas (which you don't want it to do - you want it all flowing to the heatsink). It would be easier to explain with a picture, but it would take me ages to knock one up. Hope you get the gist of it.

See also this thread.

You may also want to read this wikipedia entry and the associated topics.
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post #102 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Apple seem to have repeated their mistake with applying way too much thermal paste in the MacBook.

I am astonished that this woefully amateurish mistake is still being made.

Here's a picture from the MacBook service manual:



There is a thread about it on Macnn's forums, here

There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.
post #103 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Delicious
There is no way that this picture is real. How could Apple, a well established computer maker, make such a stupid mistake? Everyone knows just a dab of paste, it just doesnt make any sense. That is a rediculous amount of paste he is putting on that chip in the picture. It would be all over the board after pressing that together with the heatsink.

Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.
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post #104 of 131
Originally posted by sandau
Macs make pussy warm.


If we're not talking about cats, I wonder if that statement still holds true.... "This one time, at band camp, ...."
post #105 of 131
Originally posted by TenoBell
He discovered with the heat sensors disconnected the fans blew full on. He said this situation actually kept the MBP cool. He said extremely cool, but extremely loud.

http://www.macdevcenter.com/lpt/a/6605

From this he feels the thermal paste has less to do with the over heating than the fans blowing. And that Apple needs to find a balance between fan noise and keeping the MBP at good working temperatures.



It's all connected. The thermal paste, the heatpipe, the temperature sensors, and the fans reaction to temperatures of the heatpipe. Better thermal transfer between the CPU and GPU leads to heat being transferred better to the heatpipe. Which means higher temperatures at the heatpipe. Which means the fans which sense the temperatures at the heatpipe will come on to cool the heatpipe to thus remove the excess heat. But the fans may come on a little at a time* (see below *)

Let's read what the dude said again:
"Once I corrected the problem and carefully reassembled my MacBook Pro, the noise went away. And with it went the enjoyable coolness, which was replaced by a familiar warmth. It was this second reassembly that was used to take the temperature readings above."

The fans come on at full blast because he disconnected the temperature sensor at the heatpipe. When reconnected, I say the MacBook is in better shape overall than with tons of thermal paste. It is very possible that proper application of thermal paste will get the heat out from the CPU and GPU to the heatpipe properly, and from then on it's just a question of the "gating" of the fans* depending on the temperature of the heatpipe.

I'd venture that doing the mod itself will result in a good balance between heat of the MacBook and fan noise.

*In fact, it is possible that fans will only come on a little at a time, since with the heat properly transferred to the heatpipe, the heat is progressively and efficiently removed from the MacBook by the fans coming on every now and then. Rather than a huge build up of heat, then suddenly the heatpipe goes "OMG WTF" and then fans come on strongly to "emergency" cool down the whole shebang.
post #106 of 131
Originally posted by TenoBell
Apple should perhaps give us the choice of running the fans longer (more noise) for a cooler machine or run the fans less (less noise) with a warmer machine.


See my post above A cooler machine need not necessarily mean louder fans, if the fans come on a little at a time. It depends on the temperature sensors at the heatpipe.

Let's say the heatpipe is gated at 50degC. Given efficient transfer of heat from CPU and GPU to heatpipe, there'll be little peaks of temps over 50deg. So the fan could just come on a little at a time to bring things down under 50deg.

There is a possible balance between the thermal paste, heatpipe sensors, fan noise and temperature of the MacBook that would make everything work well and please most people. I think Apple hardware engineering is looking hard at this and thinking about the next revs and firmware updates.
post #107 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. H
Unfortunately, the likelihood of that picture being real is very high. It is almost exactly the same as the picture from Apple's MacBook Pro service manual, which was linked to in its entirety by something awful. Apple slapped them with a threat of legal action for linking the document, so it is gone now.

OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.
post #108 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by sandau
Macs make pussy warm.


If we're not talking about cats, I wonder if that statement still holds true.... "This one time, at band camp, ...."

It does, everytime a woman puts one on her lap since macbooks supposedly get so hot.
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post #109 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Res
I see you did not try moving text between two documents using Exposé like I posted. Try this: open a TextEdit document, then reply to this post. Type in some text in your browser, highlight it, then click and hold till it is selected. Now using a stopwatch time how long it takes to drag the text into the TextEdit window and drop it. (I averaged .3 seconds). Then do the same thing, but use Exposé to get to the TextEdit document (I averaged 3.2 seconds).

Obviously... but you are forgetting to factor in the time it takes to position the windows side-by-side or staggered or whatever in the first test so that you'll actually be able to drag and drop-that's what expose is meant to eliminate and, in doing so, it is remarkably convenient and very fast. (especially if you're copying things from various location into a single document or something). Whoever it was that was talking about full screen in Windows with the taskbar and show desktop-Are you joking??? You get used to using Expose to copy text/images/files between documents/apps/windows/desktop/harddrives and then come back and tell me about your "show desktop." Believe me, that junk can't even compare.

Interesting note-in three years of using OS X, i've never used that little green button at all. When I read this thread, I decided to try it out and see what it does. Now I'm addicted to it-in Safari. I haven't tried it in other apps yet. It's really very convenient with webpages, resizes horizontally to just fit the page contents. That said, it is also buggy, like it sometimes repositions the window halfway down the screen or in the corner. WTF??

Regarding heat issues-as someone's already mentioned, the review that "started it all" got edited because Apple replaced the defective laptop. As such, given that all it takes for the few people affected by this kind of problem is a trip to an Apple store, this is IMHO really a non-issue...
post #110 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:


awwww..... 8) 8)
post #111 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Red Delicious
OK, so maybe apple fucked up. But ASUS manufactured these laptops did they not? They would not screw something up like this. I just dont get it. Myabe its the booze, but maybe im right. ASUS would not do something like that.

ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.
post #112 of 131
Originally posted by JeffDM
ASUS is probably the contract manufacturer, if the specs call out for a certain amount of something, they might be in violation of their contract if they do anything else.


Someone needs to rip open an Asus notebook to see how they do their own heatsinks and thermal pastidooos. Asus make some nice laptops.
post #113 of 131
Hi folks

I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.

I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.

About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.

As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.

The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.

As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.

Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha

Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing =) though I'd say forget the black cos the premium is just outrageous. Sorry for the long post, meant to comment on the heat issue only, but ended up gushing about this awesome looking piece of gear =)
post #114 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
It's readjusting to the size you need. I'm not sure where "zoom" implies "enlarge" in your book, either.

I know I'm late on this whole green button debate, but my problem with this whole discussion is the implication that the green button actually zooms anything.

When I think of zoom, I think of the actual scale of all the items in the window (ie. zoom like a camera). So if the green button actually zoomed, then everything inside the window should get larger (or smaller, depending on the zoom factor). All the green button does is resize the window.

And yes, I find it useless as well. Been using Mac OS X since it was first released (6 years now) and haven't used the green button since I first tried it out and found it's behavior confusing. I just use the resize handle in the bottom-right corner. Most Mac users I've seen do the same.
 
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post #115 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by Bergermeister
Heat?



Now we know who the MacBooks were really designed for:


That's a GREAT photo!!!
"My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can." - Frank Zappa
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post #116 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by lychee
Hi folks

I am a first time mac user (well, I started with mac back when I was a kid in '85 when it was green and black screen and the apple logo was multi-coloured; anyone care to tell me what OS that was cos I never found out *grin* windows 3.1 took over after that though) and I am DECIDEDLY NOT a techie so my comments below are purely on a layman fuzzy logic level.

I just got my Macbook 1.83GHz yesterday and been eagerly trying things out on Mac OS. I am very impressed thus far and I guess I'm lucky cos apparently, it doesn't "just work" for everyone here.

About the heat issue, I do notice that the laptop gets very hot, especially on the left bottom side (looking at your laptop when you use it) and I think it would be hot enough to be uncomfortable and if you say it will burn your lap, I can believe you (definitely singe a couple of leg hairs *grin*). However, I cannot say that this does not occur for other laptops as the IBM X21 that I use gets similarly hot and X21 follows a small form factor design as well (though of course not as elegant). The only reason why I think people raise this point about the Macbook is because, it seems to me, that the heat-generating area for Macbook occurs over a larger area. Conclusion: Its a laptop, but do yourself a favour, get a table and save some of your swimmers.

As for the "roaring" sound, nothing to complain about for me so far. Maybe I haven't really put my macbook through its paces yet. But you should hear the X21 I use at work; it is so abused and its hard disk so on the verge of crashing that it is making very angry roaring noises all the time. After that benchmark noise level, I ain't complaining about the noise that the macbook can make at times.

The white interior is great; its good that apple made it a bit greyish so dirt can't show that easily, but you can definitely notice when a strand of hair or an eyelash shows up, so be diligent and clear those and keep your mac pretty.

As for the keyboard, I heard the review and saw the pics on this website and thought that they were really integrated and flushed onto the board. However, now on close examination, it seems that they can still be popped and don't think that it will cost a lot to repair (like what this site said about replacing the entire base or something), or maybe I'm understanding this wrongly.

Lastly, do get that upgrade to 1 gig ram; pay if you have to or unless you can do it more cheaply. I didn't and am starting to regret it cos its not running as fast or as smoove as I feel it ought to. Already, Mail has crashed on me once and introduced me to the Force Quit command... hahaha

Oh well, all in all, no regrets for me. Its a pretty bundle you're getting for this price point. Just go get the damn thing =) though I'd say forget the black cos the premium is just outrageous. Sorry for the long post, meant to comment on the heat issue only, but ended up gushing about this awesome looking piece of gear =)

I got my Macbook 1.83 yesterday as well. I LOVE IT. Yes, the left side gets a bit warm, it's NOT a problem. They tell you in the manual it gets warm and to sit the machine on a flat surface because it helps to dissipate the heat. Every laptop gets a bit warm or hot. This is one GREAT laptop IMHO. The battery life is better than my G3 ibook 500, the screen is clear and bright and sharp as a tack. The glossy screen is NOT a problem for me. The slightly heavier weight is NOT a problem for me. I LOVE this Macbook! Apple really did a great job with this. Seriously.

I am one happy camper so far!

Tom
"My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or her as far away from a church as you can." - Frank Zappa
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post #117 of 131
This made the cover of Digg.com earlier today, and it seems on topic. I cannot vouch for its validity, however.

http://gertstahl.blogspot.com/2006/0...t-blocked.html
post #118 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by John Clay
This made the cover of Digg.com earlier today, and it seems on topic. I cannot vouch for its validity, however.

http://gertstahl.blogspot.com/2006/0...t-blocked.html

And the cover of this very forum

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showt...threadid=63745
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post #119 of 131
Quote:
Originally posted by ThinkingDifferent
I'd be taking that baby back for a checkup. I don't care how long the lines are..

On topic: Yesterday I was at the local Apple store and I noticed that the white Macbooks were much warmer to the touch than the Black models.

I'd go back again and check more closely as to the processor speed. That was my first instinct too, but on closer inspection it turned out the problem was the 1.83GHz models. I think Intel is shoving the reject chips out as "slower".
post #120 of 131
I have a white MacBook 2GHz that I ordered on the day they were released. I added some RAM and extra HDD space so it came directly from China.

I love the machine and it has no heat issues. It runs cooler than my previous Intel laptop from Gateway.
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