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Is the Da Vinci code any good?

post #1 of 89
Thread Starter 
"Critics" are saying it is terrible. But they are never right. So has anyone here seen it? I am most interested in hearing opinions of people who both read and liked the book. I loved the book, except the stupid ending...and it sounds like a fun movie? So what do ya'll think?
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post #2 of 89
reading the book right now (thought I'd better read it before I pass comment on it)

My hypothesis (knowing what the main outcome is about)was that Dan had stumbled upon some 'truth' but had made the fundamental mistake of thinking that Jesus, Mary etc were "real" people and had not realised that Jesus' marriage was symbolic.

But having read the first 100 or so pages, clearly he understands more than I've imagined him to, so it might well be that by the time I've finished it, although the majority of people seem to take his book 'literally', he might have actually been concluding the story 'symbolically' aswell. That the cryptologist is called "Sophie" is a major clue to this.

Oh, havn't seen the film yet - I've been told the reason the critics were scathing/pissed is because they were not allowed any pre-screening time - and we all know what a bunch of jumped-up twats journalists are!
post #3 of 89
I thoroughly enjoyed the movie. I went to opening night here, where it played to a packed house and received an ovation when the credits started rolling. The plot adhered to the original story well, but I'm sure that it's one of those movies that comes across more easily for those who have already read the novel. Dan brown apparently said that "had he been in charge, his version would be 10 hours long". I think a really good job was done in the cutting room.

IMHO, the premise that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and had a child or more isn't as preposterous as some would make out. The custom 2000 years back was for Jewish males to marry at a young age and to father children. It was also custom for Rabbis to be married and raise a family, and it is not impossible that Jesus undertook rabbinical studies, borne out by his ability to converse with learned spiritual figures at a very young age. Furthermore, there is no biblical record as to where Jesus was located for some 18 years between the age of 12 and when he started his ministry around 30 years old; there are accounts in Nepalese and Tibetan monasteries that a traveling spiritual master "Issa" from "parts west" at the appropriate time in history, who fiited Jesus' description.

Jesus was a historical figure, a human being, and we have but a patchy history of the smaller part of his life. Even for those of faith who attach divinity to him, how does the likelihood of his fathering children take away from that divinity? Just because there is no record in the canon (as established by a vote in the 4th century) of Jesus having no children, this cannot realistically be taken as proof that he remained single and/or childless.
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #4 of 89
I liked the book, although I think there are better authors of this genre than Dan Brown, whose characters are always rather two-dimensional and whose endings seem to me to be rushed ("Whoops, we're at 700 pages. Better end this...NOW.")

As an adventure/thriller, I consider the movie (not the story itself) mediocre. (I'll leave a discussion of the religious aspects alone, for now.) It *really* needed a better editor. After the first 30 minutes, I seriously considered walking out simply because I wasn't being entertained.

The story as-written doesn't lend itself to a screenplay: there are too many details to communicate, which makes it as much a lecture as a thriller. The characters aren't generally interesting or sympathetic. The overall tone of the movie is "dark," but not in a film noire sense - more like a "can we open the lens another f-stop or two?" sense. The few action scenes (with the exception of one stunning car crash) are edited so poorly it's hard to understand what's going on, and by the time you figure it out, the scene's over.

With a different screenwriter, editor, and cinematographer, this movie might have been much better. On the other hand, it was true to the book, so perhaps the weaknesses of Brown's storytelling are simply magnified on the big screen.

In contrast, consider the "Harry Potter" movies (comparing the movie-making, not the plots): huge amounts of detail to communicate, yet the characters are interesting, the stories move along with action and humor, the cinematography is entertaining, and significant editing was done without compromising the basic story line.
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post #5 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo


IMHO, the premise that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and had a child or more isn't as preposterous as some would make out.

It isn't preposterous at all, Jesus' marriage is in the frigging Bible if you read past the literal black and white. The only reason this is a controversy is because as usual we have been completely lied too about the meaning and symbolism of the story, and have long forgotten the spiritual 'wisdoms' of the ancient world.
post #6 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
Dan brown apparently said that "had he been in charge, his version would be 10 hours long".

That's when I'd have to reach for my revolver.

Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
It isn't preposterous at all, Jesus' marriage is in the frigging Bible if you read past the literal black and white.

Yes, no doubt at all that the marriage at Cana was Jesus's own.

This Jesus stuff (in relation to the DVC) is pure bollocks. There is NO connection whatsoever between the Rennes le Chateau mystery and Jesus other than the fact Sauniere happened to be a priest.

As it is, one of the most fascinating and intriguing mysteries of all time is heaped under a pile of steaming horse manure. If Sauniere had discovered anything like this Jesus/Magdalene crock (which undoubtedly is true - my point is it is not the secret of Rennes that made Sauniere rich) then the Church wouldn't PAY him off ffs - a tighter bunch of money-obsessed greedy bastards than the Church is a metaphysical impossibility - they'd merely do what they do best: KILL him.

And that Dan Brown wouldn't get anywhere near a publisher if there was a word of truth in it. This is the friggin Church we're talking about - the same guys with a body-count pushing 30 million notches on the gun and their still in bat.

What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #7 of 89
Guys, this is just a novel. Unfortunately, Brown took enormous liberties with the facts -- couple that with the lack of Christians who got past the "B-I-B-L-E, that's the book for me" stage, and near complete ignorance or early Church history at large, the book has been taken to be more than a work of fiction.

LiveScience.com has a good, brief, piece on this.

Quote:
Alas, the whole basis of The Da Vinci Codethe "discovered" parchments of Rennes-le-Ch√Ęteau, relating to the alleged Priory of Sionwere part of a hoax perpetrated by a man named Pierre Plantard. Plantard commissioned a friend to create fake parchments which he then used to concoct the bogus priory story in 1956. (See Carl E. Olson and Sandra Miesel, The Da Vinci Hoax, 2004.)

Of course, Dan Brownwith the authors of Holy Blood, Holy Grail and The Templar Revelationwas also duped by the Priory of Sion hoax, which he in turn foisted onto his readers. But he is apparently unrepentant, and his apologists point out that The Da Vinci Code is, after all, fiction, although at the beginning of the novel, Brown claimed it was based on fact. Meanwhile, despite the devastatingly negative evidence, The Da Vinci Code mania continues. Perhaps Brown should go on his own questfor the truth.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #8 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
LiveScience.com has a good, brief, peice on this.

No it doesn't.

The Priory de Sion stuff being debunked is just to get the sheep back in the comfort zone. Of course it was a *****ing hoax. The parchments were forged but that's not the point.

The point is that this is a fact: Sauniere was exiled to the Rennes area as a poor priest on a pittance of a salary with a handful of parishioners.

A decade later his expenditure had reached millions of dollars in today's money. Question is: how?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #9 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
That the cryptologist is called "Sophie" is a major clue to this.

Hagia Sophia? Queen Sophie Magdalene?
post #10 of 89
double post
post #11 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Hagia Sophia? Queen Sophie Magdalene?

sophia is the greek for 'wisdom'. mary magdelena=sophia, thus jesus marries wisdom.

Mary is a personification of self, there are 3 mary's in the story, but the point is they are all aspects of the same person.

The origin of this is lunar, waxing (new moon = virgin, full moon = mother), waning (old moon = old parallels wisdom).

Magdelena is the old, wise moon, a metaphor of 'state of mind', as are the other mary's, not a real person.

Therefore Jesus marries the wisdom as you would expect. The crucifixion is a similar story of 'self', consumating the 'marriage' if you like, taking the path of wisdom rather than foolishness, Jesus dies (stupid aspect of 'self') but resurrects as the wise self, reborn.

Probably better to ask someone else who understands it better than me though.
post #12 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
No it doesn't...The parchments were forged but that's not the point.

The point is that this is a fact: Sauniere was exiled to the Rennes area as a poor priest on a pittance of a salary with a handful of parishioners.

A decade later his expenditure had reached millions of dollars in today's money. Question is: how?

segovius, conspiracy theories aren't my thing, I find garden-variety history exotic enough --- at any rate, here is one explanation from wikipedia: Link

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #13 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
segovius, conspiracy theories aren't my thing, I find garden-variety history exotic enough --- at any rate, here is one explanation from wikipedia: Link

I'm going to dispute that Wiki when I get round to it - bet it is Paul Smith, a notorious loon.

The fact is that the conspiracy theories are irrelevant. The Diana conspiracy theories do not mean she did not exist or die in Paris. The 911 conspiracies do not mean there was never a World Trade Centre.

This is just taking lame no- thinking into the stratosphere. I know it is de rigeur these days to be a brainwashed sheep and 'in step' with the Stepford Citizens but in the name of God, get a grip.

There is a mystery. Neither the loons or those who are uncomfortable with any 'alternate history' emanating from anywhere but our enfranchised overlords have come up with a satisfactory explanation.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #14 of 89
A mystery of what?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #15 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
A mystery of what?

Ok, once again (sigh - I MUST remember Jesus's teachings of compassion, I MUST remember Jesus's teachings of compassion......):

The mystery of where Sauniere got his paws on French Francs amounting to millions of dollars in today's money.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #16 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
IMHO, the premise that Jesus was married to Mary Magdalene and had a child or more isn't as preposterous as some would make out.

It's not presposterous, but there's absolutely no reason to believe that it's true. None of the stories about Jesus mention him being married (let alone to any specific individual), and many religious Jews like Jesus (i.e., apocalyptic preachers) were celibate. Contrary to what this Dan Brown says, it would not have been unusual at all for someone like him to be unmarried.
post #17 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Ok, once again (sigh - I MUST remember Jesus's teachings of compassion, I MUST remember Jesus's teachings of compassion......):

The mystery of where Sauniere got his paws on French Francs amounting to millions of dollars in today's money.

I thought it was pretty clear that he was involved in "trafficking in masses" -- and that the evidence for the wealth itself is in question. Seriously, you are more than welcome to believe the RC's are involved in a coverup; I just wanted to point out that explanation, and that I've heard that from more than one source, none of which were Canadian.

I actually thought you meant 'mystery' in that there is "evidence" that Christ was married.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #18 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
none of which were Canadian.

post #19 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz

I actually thought you meant 'mystery' in that there is "evidence" that Christ was married.

do we really expect to find 'evidence' of a spiritual metaphor?

The Bible is the evidence. It is a spiritual metaphor - of life. The trick is to read it 'spiritually' and not in black and white.
post #20 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
do we really expect to find 'evidence' of a spiritual metaphor?

The Bible is the evidence. It is a spiritual metaphor - of life. The trick is to read it 'spiritually' and not in black and white.

I know, I know... but that gets into interpretation -- I meant more of the whole gnostic gosple thing --- 'Jesus used to kiss MM on the [hole in manuscript]... .

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #21 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I thought it was pretty clear that he was involved in "trafficking in masses" -- and that the evidence for the wealth itself is in question. Seriously, you are more than welcome to believe the RC's are involved in a coverup; I just wanted to point out that explanation, and that I've heard that from more than one source, none of which were Canadian.

I actually thought you meant 'mystery' in that there is "evidence" that Christ was married.

No, I do not believe the mystery has anything to do with the Church or Jesus being married (which as you know I regard as perhaps the most reliable inference from the Bible's intolerable mish-mash).

The 'evidence' for Simony is ludicrous. Really, impossible to believe - here are just some reasons why"

1) Selling masses was a serious crime. If Sauniere had been doing it would he very visibly spend the proceeds on the CHURCH and his own HOUSE??????

I mean, stash it away maybe but actually renovate his employer's property when they were paying his paltry wages and would know that there were large sums of money swilling about .....no.

2) Rennes le Chateau had a congregation in single figures. it was an impoverished area. Ditto Rennes le Bains and Aix.

Who could have paid the equivalent of millions?

3) The money seemed to still be pouring in after Sauniere's death. His housekeeper (who inherited it) burnt all her share when a law ending the old currency and introducing the Franc was introduced.

Apparently she burnt hundreds of thousands of dollars worth rather than declare it and change into the new currency. She is quoted as saying something like 'it doesn't matter - if the inhabitants of Rennes only knew, they are walking on gold'.

Personally I think Sauniere had found a clue to some treasure or other and was being bankrolled to find more by some rich patrons. The building work was a cover for excavations and the 'myths' were spread by Sauniere himself to distract attention. Just my theory though.

It is an intriguing mystery.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #22 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
I know, I know... but that get's into interpretation -- I meant more of the whole gnostic gosple thing --- 'Jesus used to kiss MM on the [hole in manuscript]... .

symbolizing Jesus's deepest love for Wisdom.
post #23 of 89
I was kissed on the hole in the manuscript once but I was drunk at the time......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #24 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
symbolizing Jesus's deepest love for Wisdom.

Actually - and I know you will find this difficult to believe - the Holy Grail legend has nothing to do with Christ but is a corruption of an Islamic motif which reached France via the Troubadours from Islamic Spain.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #25 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I was kissed on the hole in the manuscript once but I was drunk at the time......

you should stay away from Swindon
post #26 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
you should stay away from Swindon

Yes, usually that is a golden rule....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #27 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Yes, usually that is a golden rule....

you're diabolical, I'll get Anna in here to kick it...
post #28 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Actually - and I know you will find this difficult to believe - the Holy Grail legend has nothing to do with Christ but is a corruption of an Islamic motif which reached France via the Troubadours from Islamic Spain.

show me more...
post #29 of 89
Here's something I bet neither one of you knew about Christ's parents --- Mary and Joseph -- that PMS is mentioned in the Gospels. It distinctly says that 'Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way Bethlehem.'

FYI

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #30 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
It distinctly says that 'Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way Bethlehem.'

post #31 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Here's something I bet neither one of you knew about Christ's parents --- Mary and Joseph -- that PMS is mentioned in the Gospels. It distinctly says that 'Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way Bethlehem.'

FYI



I bet there was a big hole in his manuscript then...
post #32 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by MarcUK
show me more...

Mysticism is essentially the union of the male and female opposites. This is explicit in alchemy and of course is stated as such in books like Christian Rosenkreuz's Chymical Wedding - ie, the marriage of male and female opposites or yin and yang.

As we know, the Church opposed the feminine principle (and still does) but palmed off the sheep with an ersatz substitute in Mary, all the while keeping going the age-old patriarchal Abrahamic bullshit we all know and live so well.

But the feminine principle went underground. You have to 'find' it. Hence the search for the Grail is the search for the feminine - the counterpart that has been removed from orthodox religion.

The Troubadours made this quite clear: they were always singing of 'their Lady' and essentially it is a feminine goddess cult of sorts.

The idea originated in Islamic Spain where one of the methods of finding the feminine was called the 'Holy Recital' and was a sort of chant or mantra. Of course the language was Arabic and the exact arabic words for 'Holy recital' are 'Garrael Muqqadas' which was transliterated at one remove as 'Holy Garrael'.

The idea is also identical with the Tarot cards - which are another device to the same end. If you look at the Tarot atouts you will see clearly the motifs of the story - including the Cups (grail), Wands (spear that pierced Christ's side), Disks (round table) and Swords (Excalibur) which make up the suits.

The main Arcana is also a pure source of the Grail myth. There is no doubt that the Tarot is an Islamic invention from medieval Spain. The name derives from the Arabic turuq which means 'four ways' (ie the four suits) and thence to 'Tarrocci'.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #33 of 89
Thread Starter 
Yeah Voxapps I have to agree. the book was fun, but the last 10 pages or whatever where Teabing pulls the Scooby Doo and is like "Hey it was ME! Suprise! Ahahaha!" was fucking lame. Really, really lame. Like something a gradeschooler wrote. I remember being so pissed. I was just so angry, what did he just get fuckin lazy!?

So anyone else who liked the book see the movie?

I think I'll see it tonight or tomorrow, and post my opinion.
"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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"Overpopulation and climate change are serious shit." Gilsch
"I was really curious how they had managed such fine granularity of alienation." addabox
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post #34 of 89
For anyone who's read the book, watching the movie is meaningless. It adds absolutely nothing.

For anyone who might read the book, read it, and don't watch the movie. It's a good yarn.

For anyone who WON'T read the book, go ahead and see the movie. It's not any worse than the usual Hollywood drivel.

It's just pointless to do both.
post #35 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Here's something I bet neither one of you knew about Christ's parents --- Mary and Joseph -- that PMS is mentioned in the Gospels. It distinctly says that 'Mary rode Joseph's ass all the way Bethlehem.'

FYI

LOL maybe it meant she had a strap-on.
post #36 of 89
/me avoids all this fuss.

Answer:

1) the book is a fine read. Brown is a one-trick pony (I've read all his books), but by god, it's a good trick and I don't mind watching it.

2) TDVC is not as good as _Angels & Demons_.

3) The movie is ho hum. It's a much better story when it's all vague and in the imagination than it is when it's splayed out in front of you on the screen; in the end, it comes off as kind of hokey. I felt kind of bad not liking it, since I can't imagine that Howard could've done a better job. It's just that the story works better on the page than on the screen.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #37 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
2) TDVC is not as good as _Angels & Demons_.

I bet we'll see that as a movie in 2008. It could be a Bond-like franchise. Maybe Langdon will go after Skull and Bones next.
post #38 of 89
Seeing it today at 4:15 with the family.
post #39 of 89
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I bet we'll see that as a movie in 2008. It could be a Bond-like franchise. Maybe Langdon will go after Skull and Bones next.

Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised. Of course, if they let it go long enough we'll wind up with taglines like "Robert Langdon searches frantically for a set of lost keys...TO HIS CAR!"
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #40 of 89
I think this hoopla is analogous to people seeing Star Wars, believing it was filmed on location.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
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