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You Gotta Love That Coulter Chick - Page 3

post #81 of 218
Must say I don't read her or listen to her. Bill O is my favorite.
"some catch on faster than others"
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"some catch on faster than others"
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post #82 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Is the Coulter piece too dark? Perhaps if people treat it as a purely serious statement but obviously she writes tongue-in-cheek. She does the same sort of thing, Franken, Maher, and Limbaugh do. Most of the time it works, other times someone gets their nose a bit bent and you get fired from ABC. I'd rather have them poking fun than being safe myself whether I agree with them or not.

That Britney thing was funny. Very funny. However your comment about Coulter writing "tongue in cheek" is ludicruos.

A quick online search will give you plenty of her hate-filled wack quotes and videos. Tongue in cheek.....maybe sometimes....re: the 9/11 widows...yeah right.
post #83 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by rageous
Hm, I think you're making a decent point. But the difference I see is that when people like Franken, Maher or Limbaugh are called out for something they say, they can generally justify some narrow offense they may have committed by placing it within a larger context and doing so intelligibly and cohesively. You don't have to like or agree with them to at least see they have thought about what it is they are saying.

You're probably right. However I can't say I have really read the entire context from which these items from Coulter have been written because I haven't read her book. Actually I haven't read any of her books but I have seen her column and the tone in there is similar.

Also remember that Franken, Maher and Limbaugh all have their own platforms from which to respond to whomever they want. Franken and Limbaugh have three hours a day of radio time, Maher has his Real-Time show. All Coulter gets is five minutes of interview time opposite whatever host wants to leap down her throat.

Quote:
Coulter, on the other hand, when asked to explain something she said about a person or group tends to let out two or three quick Butthead-esque huffy laughs and follow it up with "well they are!" followed by some weird stare into the camera like she half expects everyone to all of a sudden go "Wow, she's right!"

I understand where you are coming from in that regard at least with the Lauer Today show interview which I saw. However I also saw how she basically grants him nor any of the ten people he wants to quote and ask for responses to any sort of authority.

This is why Maher (at least in my opinion) used to have her on PI so often. It is great to watch some ballsy people pop the authority balloons that some of these people try to use to dictate to others. I'm sure you might appreciate it when Bill O'Reilly is popped in the nose by such verbal jabs. It amounts to "Why the hell are you and why should I give a crap what you say?" Matt Lauer is no different in my view. He tried to derive some sort of authority by quoting various folks but she just told him to fuck off in not so many words.

Here is the video if you want to see it. You Tube

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #84 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
So Coulter says this

If she's calling them "harpies" and claiming they are taking pleasure in their husbands' death and she's writing it tongue-in-cheek, does she mean it, or not?

Does Bill really think Britney should stick a fork in the toaster and toss her kid out the window?

Quote:
Originally posted by Gilsch
That Britney thing was funny. Very funny. However your comment about Coulter writing "tongue in cheek" is ludicruos.

A quick online search will give you plenty of her hate-filled wack quotes and videos. Tongue in cheek.....maybe sometimes....re: the 9/11 widows...yeah right.

It is funny. Is the Ann book as funny? I don't know. Is Bill funny because we feel like we can laugh at stupid, trashy white people even if they are rich? Are there subjects that are too taboo to give permission to poke fun at? Some may say yes, but I say no. I mean this is what gets South Park in trouble but it is what I love about that show. They will take on ANYONE.

So you call it whatever you want. I think walking that line is hard and it doesn't always work. There are times I watch Maher where I think he just flat out hates everything about religion and would hit anyone religious with a shovel just to get it over with. To me that is his weak area where he can't balance well and just starts to sound pissed off and ranting.

Speaking of which... balanced or hateful.. you tell me...

New Rule: You don't get a million dollars just for being gay. Remember Dick Cheney's daughter Mary, the one John Kerry mentioned was a lesbian, and the Republicans pretended to get all irate about it? Well, she just got a million-dollar advance to write her memoirs. Memoirs? "Chapter One: my dad's vice president. Chapter Two: I like pussy." The End.

and..

New Rule: Britney Spears and her husband have to name their new baby "Shithead." It's the redneck version of "Apple." And while we're at it, stop bugging her about smoking. It's a little late to start worrying about the DNA when half of it is Kevin Federline's.

New Rule: Stop f***ing with old people. Target is introducing a redesigned pill bottle that's square, with a bigger label. And the top is now the bottom. And by the time grandpa figures out how to open it � his ass will be in the morgue. Congratulations, Target, you just solved the Social Security crisis.

New Rule: Angelina Jolie has to put the little Asian kid down. Is it a child or just something to hide a tattoo? You know, Paris Hilton loves her little rat dog, but once in a while even she just shoves it in her purse.

New Rule: Stop saying that teenage boys who have sex with their hot, blonde teachers are permanently damaged. I have a better description for these kids: lucky bastards. You know, I was once beat up after school, and believe me, I would gladly trade that pummeling for a session of oral sex with my French teacher - no matter how much his mustache tickled.

New Rule: Stop making those motorized scooters look so damned fun! When I see those TV commercials with old people zipping around, it makes me wish I was paralyzed with Type-2 diabetes.

New Rule: Just because we have an obligation to rebuild New Orleans doesn't mean we have to put it back in the same place. For $200 billion, we could put the French Quarter on the moon. Why don't we put it someplace it can stay out of harm and do some good? After all, New Orleans is the Big Easy, and a lot of America is uptight. Which is why I say we put New Orleans in Kansas.

Is it really okay to make fun of the infirmed elderly, a single adoptive parent, molested children, and the Katrina disaster? Are they any different than say... 9/11 widows?

Perhaps some things are off-limit but I'm not going to be the one to say so.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #85 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Does Bill really think Britney should stick a fork in the toaster and toss her kid out the window?

/me checks thread title...yup. This is a thread about Coulter and what she said.

/me checks my question...yup. I asked whether Coulter meant what she wrote. You claimed it was tongue-in-cheek. I asked whether she meant it or not.

Simple question.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #86 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
Is it really okay to make fun of the infirmed elderly, a single adoptive parent, molested children, and the Katrina disaster? Are they any different than say... 9/11 widows?

Perhaps some things are off-limit but I'm not going to be the one to say so.

You aren't really that tone deaf when it comes to irony and humor as to not snese the difference in the nature of the targets, the tone of delivery, the degree to which things are being made personal, etc., etc., between Bill Maher's jokes and Ann Coulter's sheer vitriol, are you?
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #87 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
You aren't really that tone deaf when it comes to irony and humor as to not snese the difference in the nature of the targets, the tone of delivery, the degree to which things are being made personal, etc., etc., between Bill Maher's jokes and Ann Coulter's sheer vitriol, are you?

I wasn't going to say anything, since that's no doubt where Nick wants to take this--is she comedy or is she commentary--but that is the obvious question. And consdiering I have NEVER seen her categorized as "comedy" ANYWHERE on ANY show, one wonders why so many screaming head shows (well, Fox News shows, mostly) keep booking her. I mean, why on earth would they keep booking a comedian (who's apparently so bad no one can tell) to do political commentary and consistently labeling her either as a pundit or an author?

Anyone got a screenshot of her on Fox and labeled as a comedian?

So either she means it or she doesn't. And her defenders who claim she's just kidding either have a sense of humor or they don't. I know that I, for one, find shit like this hysterically funny:

Quote:
* In describing the ability of reporters to get passes to White House press conferences, Coulter speculated that they must be easy to acquire since the "White House allows that old Arab Helen Thomas to sit within yards of the president." Helen Thomas is a White House reporter of Syrian ancestry.[25]

* Coulter has referred to the Middle East as a "swamp"[26] and advocated racial profiling on airliners.[27][28] Later, in an interview with the British Guardian newspaper, Coulter quipped: "I think airlines ought to start advertising: 'We have the most civil rights lawsuits brought against us by Arabs.'" When asked what Muslims should do for travel, she responded that they "could use flying carpets."[1]

* On February 10, 2006, the audience at the Conservative Political Action Conference applauded her when she referred to Muslim terrorists as "ragheads" and said, "I think our motto should be, post-9-11: raghead talks tough, raghead faces consequences." [10] [11]

* Coulter describes people who practice the religion of Islam as "camel jockey", "jihad monkey", and "tent merchant".[29]
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #88 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
/me checks thread title...yup. This is a thread about Coulter and what she said.

/me checks my question...yup. I asked whether Coulter meant what she wrote. You claimed it was tongue-in-cheek. I asked whether she meant it or not.

Simple question.

There is a kernal of truth in any humor. Is it true that the Jersey Girls took desire to grieve and turned it into something beyond even political pressure, but pure political power where they believed they could pick and roll heads? I think that kernal is there.

Is it true that the media and especially the left confers some sort of moral authority on victims? I say that is true as well.

Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
You aren't really that tone deaf when it comes to irony and humor as to not snese the difference in the nature of the targets, the tone of delivery, the degree to which things are being made personal, etc., etc., between Bill Maher's jokes and Ann Coulter's sheer vitriol, are you?

I consider Bill and Ann's tone very much the same. Both have been fired multiple times when they basically fell off the tightrope that reflects how hard it is to balance what they do in terms of humor and commentary. I could mention The Daily Show or Colbert Report as other examples, but to me they really have no edge to them.

Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
I wasn't going to say anything, since that's no doubt where Nick wants to take this--is she comedy or is she commentary--but that is the obvious question. And consdiering I have NEVER seen her categorized as "comedy" ANYWHERE on ANY show, one wonders why so many screaming head shows (well, Fox News shows, mostly) keep booking her. I mean, why on earth would they keep booking a comedian (who's apparently so bad no one can tell) to do political commentary and consistently labeling her either as a pundit or an author?

Anyone got a screenshot of her on Fox and labeled as a comedian?

So either she means it or she doesn't. And her defenders who claim she's just kidding either have a sense of humor or they don't. I know that I, for one, find shit like this hysterically funny:

So you're saying there is no schtick to what she does? You consider her the same as Eleanor Clift, George Will and others. No difference?

Al Franken is described as a comedian, but also as a fellow with Harvard's Kennedy School of Government and possible Senate Candidate. What do you call what he does on Air America? Is it only comedy?

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #89 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I consider Bill and Ann's tone very much the same.

Then you really are tone deaf to humor. Coulter is simply vicious most of the time. There's no irony there, hardly any humorous twists. Calling those widows witches and harpies, enjoying their husband's deaths? Ha, ha, ha! Oh, yes, that's... hey, wait, that's just vitriol. There's every indication that she means every bit of it.

When Maher jokes about Britney Spears throwing her baby out the window, he certainly does mean to be calling her stupid, but he sure as hell isn't advocating actual defenestration of infants. The actual bite of the humor -- taking a stab at Britney's intelligence -- is fair game with any celebrity, especially one who has obviously said and done some pretty stupid things.

Coulter on the other hand, in humorless screed after screed, has advocated things like death for all liberals, since in her book they're all traitors. Even if one could claim she's merely exaggerating for effect (and there's good reason to doubt that), there's still nothing but hate there -- no comic twist, no backing down, no thoughtful, counterbalancing moments of ever trying to sound more calm or reasonable, even when questioned about her statements.

And no, that's not the same as someone, also seriously and without humor, suggesting that someone in power should be considered a traitor when given arguably plausible reasons for questioning whether truly culpable conduct has been conducted by those so charged.

Maher got fired for saying the 9/11 hijackers weren't necessarily cowards. He had a point. He never said they weren't evil, weren't savage, weren't ignorant and stupid -- just that they weren't necessarily cowardly. America didn't want to hear that -- when we're angry, we don't want to hear anything that might possibly be construed as positive about those who have done us wrong.

What Maher tried to get people to think about is true -- not every single bad guy in the world is a coward, no matter how satisfying it might be to throw the word "coward" into every list of insults against anyone as despicable as the 9/11 hijackers. It is possible to be evil and brave (in a twisted way) at the same time, even if no one wants the hear that and everyone gets pissed at you for bring it up.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #90 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by shetline
Then you really are tone deaf to humor. Coulter is simply vicious most of the time. There's no irony there, hardly any humorous twists. Calling those widows witches and harpies, enjoying their husband's deaths? Ha, ha, ha! Oh, yes, that's... hey, wait, that's just vitriol. There's every indication that she means every bit of it.

You are entitled to your opinion regarding Coulter and even to me. She obviously still finds an audience and plenty of work. I cited several examples where Maher is easily as vicious if you didn't want to find him funny. South Park gets lambasted as unfunny and simply crude all the time as well. Perhaps you can't see the irony because you are unwilling to look in the mirror and see the truth about the left.

Quote:
When Maher jokes about Britney Spears throwing her baby out the window, he certainly does mean to be calling her stupid, but he sure as hell isn't advocating actual defenestration of infants. The actual bite of the humor -- taking a stab at Britney's intelligence -- is fair game with any celebrity, especially one who has obviously said and done some pretty stupid things.

He specifically cited Darwin for a reason, he was advocating that if we leave her alone, her stupidity will take care of her and her offspring for us. (She'll end up dead) In fact he cited that we have an obligation to allow the stupid to kill themselves off.

Again, it is funny if you are willing to let it be, but it certainly has an edge to it and is dark. So was the rule about solving the Social Security crisis by simply making it impossible for Grandpa to open his meds. It is really easy to say that joking about infirmed old people being allowed to die so we can save a buck, is absolutely cruel, mean and vicious. It works as humor for me but others will declare the topic too sacred to make a joke about. Like I said, I like certain people because no topic is off-limits.

You seem to a be comedy connisour, why don't you design a better 9/11 widows joke for us. Show us how it is done.

Quote:
Coulter on the other hand, in humorless screed after screed, has advocated things like death for all liberals, since in her book they're all traitors. Even if one could claim she's merely exaggerating for effect (and there's good reason to doubt that), there's still nothing but hate there -- no comic twist, no backing down, no thoughtful, counterbalancing moments of ever trying to sound more calm or reasonable, even when questioned about her statements.

You are welcome to your opinion, but there is truth in all humor. Her humor likely isn't funny to you because you don't want to admit the truth about the subjects.

Quote:
Maher got fired for saying the 9/11 hijackers weren't necessarily cowards. He had a point. He never said they weren't evil, weren't savage, weren't ignorant and stupid -- just that they weren't necessarily cowardly. America didn't want to hear that -- when we're angry, we don't want to hear anything that might possibly be construed as positive about those who have done us wrong.

Don't forget the second half of the statement, that we WERE cowards. We were the ones lobbing missles from miles away.

Here it is for full effect.

"We have been the cowards lobbing, cruise missiles from 2,000 miles away. That's cowardly. Staying in the airplane when it hits the building, say what you want about it, it's not cowardly."

The truth in there, that Americans might have come to a point where they are unwilling to sacrifice actual people on the ground for what they believe rings true in my ears. People didn't want to believe or hear that truth so he was fired.

There is truth to the fact that we have watched people take their victim status and turn it into speaking and book tours as well.

Quote:
What Maher tried to get people to think about is true -- not every single bad guy in the world is a coward, no matter how satisfying it might be to throw the word "coward" into every list of insults against anyone as despicable as the 9/11 hijackers. It is possible to be evil and brave (in a twisted way) at the same time, even if no one wants the hear that and everyone gets pissed at you for bring it up.

It is also possible to be cowardly in defending what is right. That part got him fired but not by me. I'll watch him even when he is banging on my beliefs.

I combed through some Coulter columns and found some funny bits for you. If you don't like them, oh well, if you don't think she is ever funny, oh well.

However the Duke lacrosse rape case turns out, one lesson that absolutely will not be learned is this: You can severely reduce your chances of having a false accusation of rape leveled against you if you don't hire strange women to come to your house and take their clothes off for money.
Also, you can severely reduce your chances of being raped if you do not go to strange men's houses and take your clothes off for money. (Does anyone else detect a common thread here?) And if you are a girl in Aruba or New York City, among the best ways to avoid being the victim of a horrible crime is to not get drunk in public or go off in a car with men you just met. While we're on the subject of things every 5-year-old should know, I also recommend against dousing yourself in gasoline and striking a match.


So Hillary Clinton thinks the House of Representatives is being "run like a plantation." And, she added, "you know what I'm talking about." First of all: Think about what a weird coincidence it is that Hillary would have made these remarks in a black church in Harlem on Martin Luther King Day. What are the odds? Did she even know it was a holiday? Bravely spoken, Senator. I haven't been this surprised since finding out Hollywood likes a movie about gay cowboys.

I'm getting a little insulted that no Democratic prosecutor has indicted me. Liberals bring trumped-up criminal charges against all the most dangerous conservatives. Why not me? Democrat prosecutor Barry Krischer has spent two years and hundreds of thousands of dollars trying to find some criminal charge to bring against Rush Limbaugh. Political hack Ronnie Earle spent three years and went through six grand juries to indict Tom DeLay. Liberals spent the last two years fantasizing in public about Karl Rove being indicted. Newt Gingrich was under criminal investigation for 3 1/2 years back in the '90s when liberals were afraid of him. Final result: No crime.

I would be more interested in what the Democrats had to say about high gas prices if these were not the same people who refused to let us drill for oil in Alaska, imposed massive restrictions on building new refineries, and who shut down the development of nuclear power in this country decades ago. But it's too much having to watch Democrats wail about the awful calamity to poor working families of having to pay high gas prices. Imposing punitive taxation on gasoline to force people to ride bicycles has been one of the left's main policy goals for years. For decades Democrats have been trying to raise the price of gasoline so that the working class will stop their infernal car-driving and start riding on buses where they belong, while liberals ride in Gulfstream jets.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #91 of 218
I'm so glad that Nick is defending Coulter, because the argument is usually made that she doesn't represent conservatives, and current American conservatism therefore isn't really the cesspool that it seems.
post #92 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I'm so glad that Nick is defending Coulter, because the argument is usually made that she doesn't represent conservatives, and current American conservatism therefore isn't really the cesspool that it seems.

You make her point for her. Perhaps I should practice what she does, let you make some lame assertion like that, and just stare at you because you are saying something ridiculous while hoping you figure it out.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #93 of 218
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You make her point for her. Perhaps I should practice what she does, let you make some lame assertion like that, and just stare at you because you are saying something ridiculous while hoping you figure it out.

Nick


Let me get this straight. You're trying to portray her as funny?

If she's trying to be it's in very poor taste.

She's just a talking head for the conservatives.

Nothing more.

Time she went back under her rock.

She's going to find tough times soon as no one will want to listen.


Nothing to figure out here.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #94 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
There is a kernal of truth in any humor. Is it true that the Jersey Girls took desire to grieve and turned it into something beyond even political pressure, but pure political power where they believed they could pick and roll heads? I think that kernal is there.

So you are saying that Coulter meant it when she called them harpies and claimed that they are taking pleasure in the deaths of their husbands?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #95 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
So you are saying that Coulter meant it when she called them harpies and claimed that they are taking pleasure in the deaths of their husbands?

I meant exactly what I said.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #96 of 218
For you lovely lefties here -- I'm pretty disappointed. You consistently vilify the right in general, and in particular, you are consistently, and profoundly disrespectful of Christians.

This is how you communicate to your opposition -- and it's called contempt.

When Brussell doesn't agree on spanking he places spanking on a moral equivalence of burning children with cigarettes. When midwinter doesn't like something the Christians are doing, he has repeatedly stated that Christians will literally bring back the conditions of the 15th Century. ...'fundie', 'Bible thumper'...the examples I could site from these very forums are virtually endless.

Trying to debate whether Coulter is out of line with people who are guilty of commonly using virulently bigoted language themselves is, by definition, pretty pointless.

(Not that I mind the bigoted approaches -- that's just a fact of life -- but to have those same people complain isn't quite believable.)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #97 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
When midwinter doesn't like something the Christians are doing, he has repeatedly stated that Christians will literally bring back the conditions of the 15th Century.

Not "the Christians." The fundamentalist, Wildmon and Dobson following types. I like Christians. I don't like fundamentalist anything.

Quote:
Trying to debate whether Coulter is out of line with people who are guilty of commonly using virulently bigoted language themselves is, by definition, pretty pointless. [/B]

Stop being such a harpy and taking pleasure in the deaths of thousands just to win an argument. Hah! I kid! See? I kid!
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #98 of 218
Uh huh. So in addition to Nick's "It's all good cause she's joking", we get "Coulter is fine because people on internet chat boards get mad and say intemperate things".

Again, and as usual, in order to normalize Coulter it becomes necessary to make everyone else worse than they are, in yet another example of the right wing apologist's race to the bottom. Our political system is shit and entirely manned by shit-heads, our foreign policy is just one long sorry march of feckless, cynical manipulations, "the public good" is a nonsense phrase that simply means standard and inevitable graft and corruption, and the public discourse is entirely conducted by savage, amoral demagogues. Hell, apparently this board is entirely comprised of savage, amoral demagogues.

So I have to ask again: why do you have such contempt for America and her institutions, and, now, why do you post here?
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #99 of 218
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I meant exactly what I said.

Nick


Well that's funny in a not so funny way.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #100 of 218
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
For you lovely lefties here -- I'm pretty disappointed. You consistently vilify the right in general, and in particular, you are consistently, and profoundly disrespectful of Christians.

This is how you communicate to your opposition -- and it's called contempt.

When Brussell doesn't agree on spanking he places spanking on a moral equivalence of burning children with cigarettes. When midwinter doesn't like something the Christians are doing, he has repeatedly stated that Christians will literally bring back the conditions of the 15th Century. ...'fundie', 'Bible thumper'...the examples I could site from these very forums are virtually endless.

Trying to debate whether Coulter is out of line with people who are guilty of commonly using virulently bigoted language themselves is, by definition, pretty pointless.

(Not that I mind the bigoted approaches -- that's just a fact of life -- but to have those same people complain isn't quite believable.)

Well if most of the people you're talking about displayed real christian values that probably wouldn't happen. Instead they twist real christian values into anything they want. You know kind of like the crusades.

Belief in god is one thing religion is another.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #101 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Uh huh. So in addition to Nick's "It's all good cause she's joking", we get "Coulter is fine because people on internet chat boards get mad and say intemperate things".

Again, and as usual, in order to normalize Coulter it becomes necessary to make everyone else worse than they are, in yet another example of the right wing apologist's race to the bottom. Our political system is shit and entirely manned by shit-heads, our foreign policy is just one long sorry march of feckless, cynical manipulations, "the public good" is a nonsense phrase that simply means standard and inevitable graft and corruption, and the public discourse is entirely conducted by savage, amoral demagogues. Hell, apparently this board is entirely comprised of savage, amoral demagogues.

So I have to ask again: why do you have such contempt for America and her institutions, and, now, why do you post here?

You're protesting too much, addabox.

Yes, it would be nice for only the unfair stereotypes that you employ to enter the cultural lexicon. But for those on the receiving end it seems a little odd for you to complain of that practice in general.

You really need to do the math on this.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #102 of 218
OK, let's cut the shit. This tired old equivalency game is just pathetic.

Here's what the "liberal Ann Coulter" would have to say to be somewhere in the ballpark of any number of right wing pundits:

"I think it's disgusting the way the parents and spouses of service people killed in Iraq use their status as officially 'grief stricken' to barge their way on camera and say their scripted lines about how great the war is and how they support that filthy little alcoholic Bush. It looks to me like they don't give a crap about their so-called 'loved ones'-- how do we even know if they were really killed in action? Maybe they got hired by the RNC to jam phone lines! These bozos think having a dead kid or wife or husband makes them immune from criticism? Well guess what, no more--it's time to call them what the are: whores. Bush whores."

Right? Not, for the love of God, a Bill Maher joke about Brittany Spears, or people getting testy on an internet chat board.

So, if we want to play "everybody does it", how bout one of you suck-ups to the worst people in the country find me a high profile "liberal" with access to mainstream media that goes around saying shit like that.

Otherwise, for the good of souls of everyone on the planet, Shut. The. Fuck. Up.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #103 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
You're protesting too much, addabox.

Yes, it would be nice for only the unfair stereotypes that you employ to enter the cultural lexicon. But for those on the receiving end it seems a little odd for you to complain of that practice in general.

You really need to do the math on this.

See my post above. You're doing what you always do, which is to make diffuse and generalized remarks about the state of the world, wherein somehow the worst offenses of people who you are more or less in political alignment with are get a pass because everything is all nasty and all, so what do you expect?

You get to sort of sit back in your easy chair and say "Ah, the slaughter of innocents, so unfortunate, still-- they lacked a sense of the centrality of God, so it is inevitable, is it not? They players matter not a whit, all of the fallen will slaughter innocents, given the chance."

Like I say, a race to the bottom-- although your version is sort of disarmingly ugly.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #104 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
You make her point for her. Perhaps I should practice what she does, let you make some lame assertion like that, and just stare at you because you are saying something ridiculous while hoping you figure it out.

Nick

So let's recap. One of the most popular conservatives in the US says that terrorism victims enjoyed the deaths of their families (among many, many other much worse comments), and then virtually the entire conservative establishment defends her. When she and those who defend her are criticized, it's ridiculous and lame and making her point for her.

This is pretty simple, Nick, it's moral vs. immoral. You've made your choice, but choices like this aren't irrevocable. The danger is that the longer you let your choice remain, the more difficult it becomes to reverse. Even though contemporary American conservatism may have already gone overboard, there's still time for you, I think. Good luck.
post #105 of 218
Actually, it'd need to be something like "I'll bet there are conservative families brainwashing their children to go to Iraq just so they can die and the families can use their deaths to help the conservative agenda."
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #106 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Actually, it'd need to be something like "I'll bet there are conservative families brainwashing their children to go to Iraq just so they can die and the families can use their deaths to help the conservative agenda."

Right, because the anti-Christ worshipping demons of the Right, who so hate America and all her works that they will breed with dogs to create a compliant race of cannon fodder, will not rest until the blood is ankle deep. They meet after hours at their Walmarts and Nascar tracks to celebrate the enslavement of mankind. They can't help it because the inbred, meth addled denizens of the "red state" enclaves are so filled with rage that they are willing to sacrifice us all on the alter of their grotesquely deformed "god". The country would be well served if terrorists started to blow up their churches so that their body parts rained down on their "general stores" and "town squares".

But it would be OK if Michael Moore went around saying this because it is the functional equivalent of making a joke about Angelina Jolie.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #107 of 218
And it would have to be one of the most popular liberals in the country and then the entire liberal establishment, not to mention all of us here, would have to defend those comments.
post #108 of 218
I think I see the problem here. It's understandable for a Klansman to use the term 'nigger' because he believes what he is saying. It's a completely natural thing -- that's just the result of a distorted worldview. You guys on the left could not seeing not seeing my point for the same reason, which is completely understandable.

So, I have a more didactic approach for you lovely lefties: I'll put my part in this conversation on hold until something like the topic of the 'American Taliban', or maybe a guilt-by-association 'Christian' video game reference appears on PO.

You shouldn't have to wait long. Do the math.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #109 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Actually, it'd need to be something like "I'll bet there are conservative families brainwashing their children to go to Iraq just so they can die and the families can use their deaths to help the conservative agenda."

You should start saying things like that for real, MW. You've got such a talent for comedy there, and you've been hiding it! Anyone can see how funny that is, right?
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #110 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
So, I have a more didactic approach for you lovely lefties: I'll put my part in this conversation on hold until something like the topic of the 'American Taliban', or maybe a guilt-by-association 'Christian' video game reference appears on PO.

Anonymous postings on an internet forum are not the same as one of the most popular conservatives in the country using rhetoric that all the other most popular conservatives in the country defend.

And that last part is important. For example, some lefties here on AI have said that the US government was behind 9/11. But most of the regular liberal posters here disagree and debate those who make such claims. Is it really that hard for you or Nick to do the same when some conservative makes silly statements? It seems that way to me, and that says something about the state of conservatism.
post #111 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
Otherwise, for the good of souls of everyone on the planet, Shut. The. Fuck. Up.

The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush,

"Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9/11,

No Iraqis Left Me on a Roof to Die

If you fall on the side that is pro-George, and pro-war, you get your ass over to Iraq, and take the place of somebody who wants to come home. And if you fall on the side that is against this war and against George Bush, stand up and speak out.

The 56,000,000-plus citizens who voted against you and your agenda have given me a mandate to move forward with my agenda,

I'm just so honored that the universe chose me to be the spark that has set off a raging inferno.

If he thinks that it's so important for Iraq to have a U.S.-imposed sense of freedom and democracy, then he needs to sign up his two little party-animal girls. They need to go this war. They need to fight.

"You tell me the truth. You tell me that my son died for oil. You tell me that my son died to make your friends rich. You tell me my son died to spread the cancer of Pax Americana, imperialism in the Middle East. You tell me that, you don't tell me my son died for freedom and democracy...You get America out of Iraq, you get Israel out of Palestine"

"Every member of Bush's executive branch (past and present) and every member of Congress who voted to give George the authority to invade Iraq have innocent blood on their hands. For the next State of the Union address, maybe the hypocrites in Congress should shamefacedly display blood-soaked hands, instead of proudly wriggling fingers stained with ink to symbolize sham Iraqi elections."

Those are all Cindy Sheehan quotes. In finding them I think I've discovered that Adda ghostwrites for her.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #112 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Anonymous postings on an internet forum are not the same as one of the most popular conservatives in the country using rhetoric that all the other most popular conservatives in the country defend.

And that last part is important. For example, some lefties here on AI have said that the US government was behind 9/11. But most of the regular liberal posters here disagree and debate those who make such claims. Is it really that hard for you or Nick to do the same when some conservative makes silly statements? It seems that way to me, and that says something about the state of conservatism.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Coulter running her mouth is no different than Stern, or Franken or you doing the same thing. Starting or perpetuating bigoted sterotypes is unfair, and unconstructive. Adding hypocrisy just makes it worse. (!)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #113 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
[B]The biggest terrorist in the world is George W. Bush,
[B]

I disagree with that substantively, and I don't like that type of rhetoric. See, was that so hard?
post #114 of 218
Thou art the man, Brussell!

Confess!!

Confess!!!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #115 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

Coulter running her mouth is no different than Stern, or Franken or you doing the same thing. Starting or perpetuating bigoted sterotypes is unfair, and unconstructive. Adding hypocrisy just makes it worse. (!)

Put up or shut up. Where are the statements that serve as the balance for Coulter's remarks (or, if you want to get into it, great moments in right wing talk like Savage telling a gay caller to "hurry up and get AIDS and die". What are the statements by liberal pundits that are "no different" than calling 9/11 widows "witches" and "opportunists" who are "enjoying the death of their husbands"?

It always goes this way. A pundit on the right makes a not atypical outrageous statement, and the apologists start to chant Moore, Franken, Moore, Franken. But somehow we never get the actual pull quotes that would put things into perspective, just a kinda sorta "sense" that, you know, over the long haul everybody says things.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #116 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by addabox
It always goes this way. A pundit on the right makes a not atypical outrageous statement, and the apologists start to chant Moore, Franken, Moore, Franken. But somehow we never get the actual pull quotes that would put things into perspective, just a kinda sorta "sense" that, you know, over the long haul everybody says things.

Noooooooooooooooooo, when a conservative pundit vilifies to make a point and then the usual suspects here on PO who, when they're not posting in this thread are posting on the "Worst President in History" thread or are known reeepeat O-fenders when it comes to off-color remarks about the American Taliban, Bush is Hilter, whatever -- immediately have genuine hissy fit, then it's is time for someone to remind them that it's nice to be nice.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #117 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
So let's recap. One of the most popular conservatives in the US says that terrorism victims enjoyed the deaths of their families (among many, many other much worse comments), and then virtually the entire conservative establishment defends her. When she and those who defend her are criticized, it's ridiculous and lame and making her point for her.

This is pretty simple, Nick, it's moral vs. immoral. You've made your choice, but choices like this aren't irrevocable. The danger is that the longer you let your choice remain, the more difficult it becomes to reverse. Even though contemporary American conservatism may have already gone overboard, there's still time for you, I think. Good luck.

You seem to be following my sig quite well. First one of the most popular, she doesn't even have her own show but she is an example of folks who are mixing comedy and political commentary. This is a growing field (Daily Show, Colbert Report, Real Time, O'Franken Factor, etc.) and perhaps I don't have the exact word of what to call it yet, but it is clear it is out there.

What is making her point for her is exactly what you did. You can't defeat the truth beneath the satire. Your little statement about cesspool facades aside, the reality is that the Jersey Girls, and Sheehans have used their platform for a hell of a lot more than the original intent.

As for needing luck, I'll make my own thanks. I do not consider it immoral to refuse to grant any sort of authority to a person on secondary matters simply because they have cause for grieving. Cindy Sheehan's son died and out of respect I'll listen to her and her claims about why she believes his death senseless. It isn't immoral to refuse to grant her an audience or consider her nonsensical on Katrina matters, on matters involving other families, on political matters involving Middle Eastern policy, etc.

The same is true for the Jersey Girls. They wanted some questions answered as part of their grieving process and were more than accomodated. Allowing them to implicate and condemn basically every state and government agency, allowing them to play politics and endorse candidates as some sort of terrorist prevention authority is nonsense. I'll accord them no authority in that area and again, doing so is not immoral.

Appeals to misleading authority are an absolute logical fallacy. Claiming that one should grant authority there is nothing more than attempting political gain. You claiming it is now a moral matter on top of the pressure to grant fallious authority does indeed prove the point of Coulter. No one is above human nature and when these people, grieving though they may claim to be, demand such authority they should be taken down a notch. They have no such authority and shouldn't be demanding it. The best candidates for doing that are often these political commentator/comedian types. If you think they are successful the laugh, and if not then don't.

You don't have to consider her funny, but I'm not going to condemn that process. I appreciate it too much. I'll even appreciate it when it is against people or beliefs I have. We can't be afraid to let people stick some pins in what we believe. The ideals should be stronger than that.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #118 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
I disagree with that substantively, and I don't like that type of rhetoric. See, was that so hard?

I do agree with Coulter that there are attempts to derive authority from victim status. I dont' have to agree with her rhetoric but I will defend her right to use it.

See, that wasn't so hard either.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #119 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Noooooooooooooooooo, when a conservative pundit vilifies to make a point and then the usual suspects here on PO who, when they're not posting in this thread are posting on the "Worst President in History" thread or are known reeepeat O-fenders when it comes to off-color remarks about the American Taliban, Bush is Hilter, whatever -- immediately have genuine hissy fit, then it's is time for someone to remind them that it's nice to be nice.

So you're not able to distinguish between going after Bush for his policies and rhetoric arising out of a fundamental contempt for "liberals" as a the enemy of "normal Americans" (Gingrich's suggestion as a matter of Republican strategy)?

And you can't distinguish between snarky internet postings and the state of mainstream punditry?

I mean, dude, the Coulter book containing her remarks is called "Godless: the Church of Liberalism", you know? And the one before that was called "Treason".

So you run along and find me mainstream liberal commentary that takes it as a given that Red State traitors are not really Americans, that they represent a clear and present danger to the health and safety of real Americans, that they scheme endlessly to bring the country down, and that given all that, we might be best served if we started to empty out their enclaves by deporting them or having them brought up on charges.

Or you can keep whining about how people are mean to Christians and Bush on the internet.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
Reply
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #120 of 218
Quote:
Originally posted by trumptman
I do agree with Coulter that there are attempts to derive authority from victim status. I dont' have to agree with her rhetoric but I will defend her right to use it.

See, that wasn't so hard either.

Nick

1. Coulter didn't say "there are attempts to derive authority from victim status." She said the victims of 9/11 enjoyed the deaths of their families. No one would have any problem whatsoever with Coulter saying what you said. But she didn't say that, now did she?

2. You defend "her right to use it." Remind me, who said she should be jailed or otherwise should not "have the right" to say what she said? No one. People are criticizing the content of what she said, not her right to say it.

3. Once again, you're simply going out of your way to defend her. And you're not unique, because all the conservative establishment - O'Reilly, Limbaugh, Dobbs, Matalin - have defended her. At this point, it becomes about conservatives, not just one obnoxious loudmouth.
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