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Al-Zarqawi Killed: Milestone or symbolic victory?

post #1 of 146
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http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,198651,00.html

One down, thousands to go.
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post #2 of 146
For those who don't believe a word on Faux news:

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/13197560/
http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L08150614.htm
...
just check news.google.com
post #3 of 146
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Edit: I think this means -- or at least would lead me to believe -- that some indigenous element/person/mood wanted him gone. When you consider that -- for years -- that all anyone who knew of his whereabouts needed to do was pick up a phone, it's pretty impressive that he lasted as long as he did.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #4 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Couldn't have happened to a nicer guy.

Edit: I think this means -- or at least would lead me to believe -- that some indigenous element/person/mood wanted him gone.

To make room for the next leader?

The prob is the WH will say for eternity that this was a major victory, but in reality it probably didn't do anything and is actually doing exactly that which we are angry at him for doing: killing.

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #5 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
To make room for the next leader?

The prob is the WH will say for eternity that this was a major victory, but in reality it probably didn't do anything and is actually doing exactly that which we are angry at him for doing: killing.

We killed him. We're no better than the terrorists!
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post #6 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Bergermeister
To make room for the next leader?

The prob is the WH will say for eternity that this was a major victory, but in reality it probably didn't do anything and is actually doing exactly that which we are angry at him for doing: killing.

That's why I think the only way that this could be an important event is if his own people/community turned him in. There are plenty more where he came from.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #7 of 146
Ah they finally took his body out of the freezer, I was wondering when they were going to plant him. I guess they had nothing else to distract us with after the gay marriage debacle. We'll probably see Bin Ladens body in the Autumn.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #8 of 146
Clearly the US military is intolerant of Zarqawi's religious beliefs.
post #9 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Clearly the US military is intolerant of Zarqawi's religious beliefs.

What the hole thou shalt not kill thing.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #10 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Relic
Ah they finally took his body out of the freezer, I was wondering when they were going to plant him. I guess they had nothing else to distract us with after the gay marriage debacle. We'll probably see Bin Ladens body in the Autumn.

Well, I guess someone had to say it. My money was on SJO...

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"My 8th grade math teacher once said: "You can't help it if you're dumb, you are born that way. But stupid is self inflicted."" -Hiro. 

...sometimes it's both
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post #11 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Tulkas
Well, I guess someone had to say it. My money was on SJO...

He he, yea me to but I'd thought since no one else posted it I'd start the conspiracy giberish.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #12 of 146
Good morning children.



I guess killing a militant is something that is easier for BushCorp drones to justify, than walking into houses and murdering Iraqi families in cold blood. But I was only obeying orders. *Clicks heels*
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #13 of 146
Anyone know which Zarqawi is dead?

This one:



This one:



Or this one:



Or maybe even this one:



How many are still out there? Maybe Moe was right - looks like there still are thousands to go.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #14 of 146
I hope that this helps gas prices a bit, I need to fill my tank and $2.94 is not what I want to pay. In my econ class today we were forced to watch Fox News, I wish we would have been able to choose some other station, but it seemed as if the government was really playing this "victory" up. What kind of victory is it if another leader just like him is going to most likely take his place?
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"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" ~ Vroomfondel
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post #15 of 146
You all are pathetic, this guy has beheaded people, murdered over and over and over and you act like the U.S. was the bad guys and he was a good guy. You guys are screwed up big time. Im glad they taught him and his fanatics a lesson. You want to live by the sword then you are going to die by the sword. He was just another murdering bastard.
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post #16 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by maimezvous
What kind of victory is it if another leader just like him is going to most likely take his place?

Victory for totalitarianism and the forces of fascism on the home front?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #17 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by maimezvous
What kind of victory is it if another leader just like him is going to most likely take his place?

I have never really understood the logic of this kind of argument. It is used in the movie "Munich" too.
post #18 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Anyone know which Zarqawi is dead?

This one:



This one:



Or this one:



Or maybe even this one:



How many are still out there? Maybe Moe was right - looks like there still are thousands to go.....

I actually think this looks like the same guy. same lips, eyebrows and scar on the cheek.
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post #19 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by New
I actually think this looks like the same guy. same lips, eyebrows and scar on the cheek.

Me too actually - I realized it was the same guy after I posted it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #20 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by New
I actually think this looks like the same guy. same lips, eyebrows and scar on the cheek.

Pretty amazing how different he can look (at a casual glance) though.
post #21 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Victory for totalitarianism and the forces of fascism on the home front?

I agree with both you and Chris. I do think that this was a good thing that happened, but as I was watching the news the commentators were saying that this was a huge and great victory. What I don't understand is how can this be a great victory, if he will be replaced? Maybe I just wonder this because I was watching Fox, and by no way was it even close to objective news.
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"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" ~ Vroomfondel
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post #22 of 146
Pulling him out of the freezer... heh, as devious as our government may be at times to promote, extend or cover up it's activities, I believe they probably nailed Zarqawi on this mission.

Later on this evening, I will toast to his death, with a shot of good single malt, as if it were his blood.

A great victory? Bullsh*t... Another religious fanatic buttwipe will step into his sandles.

It doesn't change my opinion that the Bushites chose the wrong war at the wrong time. Remember, we KNOW where the WMD are, they are north and south and... ah, what a load crap has been layed on us. Just as I have been harping on from the beginning of the Iraq invasion, we never finished up in Afghanistan.
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You know, what's interesting about our country is that for years we were isolated from the world by two great oceans, and for a while we got a false sense of security as a result of that. We...
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post #23 of 146
This is completely meaningless.
Just more death in a cycle of death this will neither stop nor curtail.

I'm not upset that he's dead, but I really don't give a damn.

Also, where is the guy responsible for killing 3000 US civilians? Where is he? Why the hell don't we have him?
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post #24 of 146
my intellect recognizes the importance of having this guy dead, as does my instinct for revenge. iraq is a mess, but i can't imagine pulling out at this stage (i'm for drastically increasing troop numbers, but that's another story).

but. but. it sickens me to see what we've got ourselves into and that we, a civilized country, celebrate murder. yes, even if we murder the most wretched guy on the earth, it seems like the path his life took is something to mourn, and his death not something to celebrate.
post #25 of 146
One of the side-issues here is that there have been a lot of reports just in the past few days about how Zarqawi was pissing off al qaeda and Iran and they had a hit out on him. Example.
Quote:
Given that Zarqawi has become a loose cannon and that his actions are handicapping Al Qaeda's efforts, it seems reasonable to expect that an accident may befall him at some point in the near future.

I wonder if the other whackos whacked him by tipping off the US military.
post #26 of 146
It's not so much death conceptually, it's the picture of a dead face everywhere that has people frothing with joy. It's bizarre and disturbing.

We haven't won anything. We haven't really made the world a better place. This isn't Hitler, this is some jack-ass terrorist type who will probably be replaced without a sweat, it's not like his underlings are only loyal to him and not the insane cause for which they fight.

Sound and fury, signifying nothing.
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post #27 of 146
Remember when former Secretary of State Madeleine Albright predicted that Bush would "unveil" Bin Laden's capture right before the Nov 2004 election? I cannot bring myself to believe that such a thing would happen.

Quote:
Originally posted by hardhead
Pulling him out of the freezer... heh, as devious as our government may be at times to promote, extend or cover up it's activities, I believe they probably nailed Zarqawi on this mission.

Later on this evening, I will toast to his death, with a shot of good single malt, as if it were his blood.

A great victory? Bullsh*t... Another religious fanatic buttwipe will step into his sandles.

It doesn't change my opinion that the Bushites chose the wrong war at the wrong time. Remember, we KNOW where the WMD are, they are north and south and... ah, what a load crap has been layed on us. Just as I have been harping on from the beginning of the Iraq invasion, we never finished up in Afghanistan.
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post #28 of 146
More than 75 insurgent groups have been recognized in Iraq, yet we hear of it as "the insurgency" as it they are all marching in lockstep. This is not the case at all, but just more typical "black n white" type of portrayal by the media, to present an oversimplified, inaccurate but 'unified message', exactly as the Bush crew would want. Zarqawi was but just one honcho in one group amongst many. His death is no huge deal as regard political stability in Iraq.

This is about political capital and investment in Zarqawi as a threat, whether real or imaginary.

(1) publicize the presence of "al Qa'ida in Iraq",
(2) select a honcho who's involved in that group
(3) amplify both man and group way out of all proportion to their actual status either as a terrorist threat, or having influence in Iraqi affairs, by judicious use of the media.
(4) bogeyman is created.
(5) continued media attention, regular reference to his name, he assumes some kind of legendary status
(6) suddenly he's killed in a "long planned operation". Kudos to the US military and the Bush Administration for a job well done.

Political capital generated, political capital spent. It has been spent at an opportune time, diverting attention away from gnarly items in the recent forefront of public scrutiny.

Incidentally, there have been some 1400 civilian deaths reported by the Baghdad Morgue alone in the past month alone. Zarqawi and associates probably have had but a very minor part in this ongoing killing spree; Zarqawi himself has probably been holed up for a long time in 'safe houses' etc. spending most of his time avoiding capture or being killed.

His death is going to make no difference to anything much of importance in the Middle East.This is fluff. Anyone recall how BushCorp and their media drones announced that "the insurgency" would fall apart following the capture of Saddam Hussein?

I shed no tears regarding the death of this extremist rightwing religious fundamentalist jerkwad. There are quite a few more of a similar mindset who, if removed from society, the world would be a safer and more stable place.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #29 of 146
I think many underestimate the difficulty in replacing a leader like Al-Zaraqawi. They don't just fall off the truck. Getting people to risk their lives for you is not easy and people underestimate the impact of individuals.
post #30 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by groverat
This is completely meaningless.
Just more death in a cycle of death this will neither stop nor curtail.

I'm not upset that he's dead, but I really don't give a damn.

Also, where is the guy responsible for killing 3000 US civilians? Where is he? Why the hell don't we have him?

If you're thinking of Osama bin Laden, he's almost certainly DEAD. Fox reported on his death shortly after 9-11, which was a definite blooper, since a dead bin Laden cannot be promoted as the big boogeyman who's "out to get us".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #31 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
We killed him. We're no better than the terrorists!

it's all our (the usa) fault....it's always our fault we are the great evil and we should be ashamed of our selves.....

as far as being better or no better let's try making another thousand of these terrorists martyrs. hmmm lets make some more magic.
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post #32 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I think many underestimate the difficulty in replacing a leader like Al-Zaraqawi. They don't just fall off the truck. Getting people to risk their lives for you is not easy and people underestimate the impact of individuals.

But then when necessary it could also be "kamikaze terrorists are everywhere - they all want to die and get 72 virgins and they're in your neighbourhood NOW sucka.....".

Depends on what facts you're trying to refute I suppose.

At the end of the day they'll hype another badman. THese bogeys have limited shelf-life - need someone new to keep the prolls in line.

Even sheep need another threat than just 'wolf, wolf' from time to time.....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #33 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by SDW2001
We killed him. We're no better than the terrorists!

Stop making shit up.
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post #34 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
You all are pathetic, this guy has beheaded people, murdered over and over and over and you act like the U.S. was the bad guys and he was a good guy. You guys are screwed up big time. Im glad they taught him and his fanatics a lesson. You want to live by the sword then you are going to die by the sword. He was just another murdering bastard.

Sarcasm flies over one's head.
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post #35 of 146
Thread Starter 
Maybe the pictures are of a wax model?
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post #36 of 146
Since we've hung Clinton out to dry for not killing BinLaden when he had the chance, don't you think we ought to apply the same to Bush for not taking Al-Zarqawi when he had the chance *before* the start of the war?

I'm just askin'.
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post #37 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Since we've hung Clinton out to dry for not killing BinLaden when he had the chance, don't you think we ought to apply the same to Bush for not taking Al-Zarqawi when he had the chance *before* the start of the war?

I'm just askin'.

Apparently they had him under surveillance for 6 weeks this time so there was a good chance they could have messed up again - of course no-one would have heard anything if so but......

And that brings up another point - in 6 weeks, why did they not send ground troops to arrest him? US justice I guess......
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #38 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by Northgate
Since we've hung Clinton out to dry for not killing BinLaden when he had the chance, don't you think we ought to apply the same to Bush for not taking Al-Zarqawi when he had the chance *before* the start of the war?

I'm just askin'.

No no no. Clinton, as Rush Limbaugh said a number of times, bombed an aspirin factory in an attempt to distract attention from Monica.

Sheesh.
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post #39 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
And that brings up another point - in 6 weeks, why did they not send ground troops to arrest him? US justice I guess......

Might be the same reason we didn't let the Nazis know the instant we broke the Enigma code.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #40 of 146
Quote:
Originally posted by dmz
Might be the same reason we didn't let the Nazis know the instant we broke the Enigma code.

So the Nazis couldn't move to a more secure encryption system?

That's why they didn't arrest Zarqawi
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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