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apple aquires emagic - Page 2

post #41 of 110
Just because Emagic remains a distinct entity & brand, doesn't mean they're completely autonomous from Apple. For example, it's safe to say that Emagic did not volunteer to cancel Windows product development, which accounted for over 1/3 of their revenue. Certainly that was one of Apple's terms for the deal, in exchange for which Emagic gets a bunch of money and a special degree of technical support & guidance from Apple. I fully expect this will remove any doubt as to which audio/midi sequencer will end up being the best option for OSX. I had been leaning toward upgrading Digital Performer as soon as the OSX version came out, and now I'll certainly wait and see what comes from Emagic/Apple.
post #42 of 110
No, it will still appear on the software page of Apple.com, but instead of "Apple FCP," it will be "Emagic Logic Audio"

It can easily fit onto <a href="http://www.apple.com/software/" target="_blank">http://www.apple.com/software/</a> . . . go check it out. "Professional DVD, Video, and Film [and now Audio]" :cool:
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post #43 of 110
Thanks sizzle chest - good post. It cleared up a few things for me.
[quote] <strong>I had been leaning toward upgrading Digital Performer as soon as the OSX version came out, and now I'll certainly wait and see what comes from Emagic/Apple. </strong><hr></blockquote>
Same here.
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post #44 of 110
Frankly, Apple doesn't have a great track record w/ its wholly-owned subsidiaries. Not that the products haven't been good, BUT they haven't exactly turned out to be dominating apps. Their Apple-branded i/Pro strategy, OTOH, has been extremely successful.

I figure/hope/suspect, therefore, that they will "split the difference": bring Logic Gold and Platinum "in-house" as 'iMusic', and 'Audio Pro', and letting eMagic continue to write, make & sell their other hardware and software offerings.
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post #45 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Just because Emagic remains a distinct entity & brand, doesn't mean they're completely autonomous from Apple.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well, they can't really, can they? If they are "wholly owned", then that means that.

I have no doubt that the eMagic BRAND will remain - at least for a time, but their independence from Apple is entirely at Apple's discretion.
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post #46 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>

There are also features there on Digidesign and Steinberg. Just because Apple bought Emagic doesn't mean they want to eradicate these other companies completely. I'm sure they'd love it if Logic took a position in the audio/midi market similar to their position with FCP in the DV market, but if actually benefits Apple if Digi/Steinberg/MOTU keep making products for the Mac.</strong><hr></blockquote>

I sure hope they don't take the same position as FCP. FCP at this point is not the highest-end of the high-end for motion graphics, while Logic is really in a league of it's own. That's why this is so unbelievable. Emagic and Logic are extremely important in the audio world, from home to the best-equipt studios.
post #47 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by giant:
<strong>

I sure hope they don't take the same position as FCP. FCP at this point is not the highest-end of the high-end for motion graphics, while Logic is really in a league of it's own. That's why this is so unbelievable. Emagic and Logic are extremely important in the audio world, from home to the best-equipt studios.</strong><hr></blockquote>


I know! Isn't it great!
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post #48 of 110
Interesting that eMagic is also in the hardware business including several USB audio interfaces. How far will Apple go with this? Apple branded digital <a href="http://www.emagic.de/english/products/logic/control/control1.html" target="_blank">eMagic mixing boards</a> anyone?
post #49 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by disine:
<strong>Interesting that eMagic is also in the hardware business including several USB audio interfaces. How far will Apple go with this? Apple branded digital <a href="http://www.emagic.de/english/products/logic/control/control1.html" target="_blank">eMagic mixing boards</a> anyone?</strong><hr></blockquote>

It's not a mixing board. It's the Logic Control
post #50 of 110
Not only that, I believe Emagic outsources their Logic control to an outside manufacturer.
post #51 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>Not only that, I believe Emagic outsources their Logic control to an outside manufacturer.</strong><hr></blockquote>

mackie I believe
post #52 of 110
If EMagic is as big as you all say it is, then it's a smart move on Apple's part NOT to dissolve the brand/product names and roll them into i/Pro apps. Keeping the EMagic name around will be a mark of familiarity to all those pro audio users out there.

It was probably much easier to dissolve the brands of Apple's previous buyouts because they were not particularly entrenched in their respective industries. Of course, there would be pros and cons to each approach.
post #53 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by giant:
<strong>

mackie I believe</strong><hr></blockquote>

I almost said that, but I thought Mackie did the MOTU work surface that's coming out soon. Maybe they're doing both.
post #54 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by sizzle chest:
<strong>

I almost said that, but I thought Mackie did the MOTU work surface that's coming out soon. Maybe they're doing both.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's wild. I just looked it up, and <a href="http://www.sonicstate.com/news/shownews.cfm?newsid=763" target="_blank">sonicstate</a> has that picture of the logic control. DP looks like it will just be using the same surface.
post #55 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by giant:
<strong>

It's not a mixing board. It's the Logic Control</strong><hr></blockquote>


It's as good as a mixing board within the Logic enviornment. Yea I know, no I/O. It looks exactly like Digidesign's Pro Control which is also not a mixing board but a controller. Point being that if this is an attempt to create a complete Pro AV solution within the Apple brand, some sort of hardware will be required. In this case, would Apple step out that bold or should we only expect software?
post #56 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by disine:
<strong>


It's as good as a mixing board within the Logic enviornment. Yea I know, no I/O. It looks exactly like Digidesign's Pro Control which is also not a mixing board but a controller. Point being that if this is an attempt to create a complete Pro AV solution within the Apple brand, some sort of hardware will be required. In this case, would Apple step out that bold or should we only expect software?</strong><hr></blockquote>

:confused:

Not to be rude, but you don't know. Logic Control is a control surface that controls everything living in Logic, from plug-ins and vst insts. to chopping audio. It is far from a mixing board, though it's complete control of logic means it also controls the mixer.
post #57 of 110
Right, it's a pseudo-mixer -- the slider controls act to control elements onscreen, but it's no more a "mixer" than a mouse or joystick or keyboard is. Purely a control surface.
post #58 of 110
This was definitely a shocker!!!

Motu users [myself] must feel very awkwardly positioned. Apple overseeing emagic & motu being only mac.

I wonder how this will play out & if this will give emagic that edge over motu.......????

I would've liked to have seen them purchase motu, oh well.

also, from a business stand-point I can see the cut-off of windows support, but I honestly think that's a very bad decision, especially in this market.

i completely feel for windows users of logic/emagic software.
post #59 of 110
I think that windows users, for the most part, will switch to programs like Steinberg's CubaseSX rather then change platforms.

Of course, I was planing to get CubaseSX as soon as it became available for the Mac, but now I'm going to wait and see what will happen with logic.

Overall this was a great move by Apple.
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post #60 of 110
I too thought Motu was a good fit for apple, but Motu will be fine. They make some great hardware, especially external stuff. Motu 828 and 896 are awesome pieces of equipment.

I believe both work fine with logic and protools...please correct me if i'm wrong. I have a friend with an in home recording studio, who bought a mac this past year to make the digital step. I recommended Motu to him to bring his stuff in from his adat's. He couldn't be happier. He bought the new imac ..so an internal card wasn't an option, but the 828 he got offers fast firewire capabilities.
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post #61 of 110
For windows users who have used logic for this long [learning it, in AND out] and now having to switch platforms because of this buy-out, is ludacris!

I'm not using windows LA [logic audio], but still, that's very unfair and bully-ish/microsoft-ish like thing of apple to do.

that very much kills a BIG chunk of the music DAW on the windows platform. I guess in cubase's favor [since now they'll most likely get more users], but unfair to the windows community, who really only has ONE choice of major [excluding pro tools] software sequencer to go with.

Logic/Mac vs. Motu.....

I'm sure motu will hold it's ground, but they better start support more open standards [better VST support, etc.]. Or else logic/apple will creep past them.

As with a lot of people, I wonder how logic and motu will hold out in the long run. A lot of people's investments [thousands, and thousands] are on the line.....
post #62 of 110
Only one? Windows uses still got Cakewalk and Sound Forge, besides Cubase. Don't worry the "Windows community" will do just fine.
post #63 of 110
I know cakewalk/soundforge is there. Not that they aren't capable programs [they def. are], but they aren't as widely used in the major studios........
post #64 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by SQUÅSH:
<strong>I too thought Motu was a good fit for apple, but Motu will be fine. They make some great hardware, especially external stuff. Motu 828 and 896 are awesome pieces of equipment.

I believe both work fine with logic and protools...please correct me if i'm wrong. </strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually Pro Tools (except the stripped-down free version) does not support any audio interface other than Digidesign's own. Digi makes more money on hardware than software.

Logic Audio does in fact worth with MOTU's interfaces, though, as do most standard Mac audio apps (Spark, Deck, Peak, Live, various NI stuff) from companies other than MOTU themselves. And of course all MOTU apps support MOTU hardware (except for the fact that nothing runs under OSX yet).
post #65 of 110
OK - I've slept on this and now I want to talk a bit more laterally about this takeover. I don't want to just focus on a "killer" audio app here.

Apple now has the chance to establish an industry standard for both audio and MIDI in its core audio section of OS X. For too long there have been competing standards, Free MIDI & OMS for MIDI (not to forget the proprietory systems of MIDI Time Stamping and Active MIDI transmission too!) and then VST, MAS and RTAS for audio. (I'm firing these acronyms off the top of my head so please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.) Apple could really solidify system level audio control. If we are now to have multi-channel audio shared amongst apps coupled with a built in standard for handling MIDI then the end user needs system level control for all these features to work seamlessly. It will be very interesting to see what developments occur now.

Also, Apple now has the opportunity to utilise the Emagic hardware division so they can address their lack of built in audio on their machines by offering bus powered 6in/2out audio interfaces with a built in MIDI port, for example. <a href="http://www.emagic.de/english/products/hardware/index.html" target="_blank">Check this out.</a> I know there has been talk about the Logic Control unit - but as stated, that is outsourced to Mackie - who are now promoting the same unit for Motu's DP (did they see the writing on the wall?). I think Apple could benfit enormously by incorportating some of the Emagic hardware features into their PowerMac line - perhaps as add in chips or even on the mobo (is this possible - I don't know).

Then, there's the issue of software synths. Emagic has some pretty good sounding virtual instruments and, let's face it, the QuickTIme Musical Instruments sound set is nothing but a Roland General MIDI sound set. Wouldn't it be nice to regain precise sonic control of the sounds your computer is capable of making? This is another crucial area which Apple should explore.

The next few months are going to be quite exciting for the audio/MIDI world now. We'll just have to wait and see what evolves in the Apple camp after the dust settles.

Please forgive the long post - but I really want the chance to discuss these issues with other people who are interested in this topic. Thanks!

[Edit: typos - hate'em]

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Mac+ ]</p>
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post #66 of 110
The problem, imo, isn't that standards [vst, mas, mts, tdm, etc.] will/won't have better/worse integration.

the problem i see is that the OS, hardware, software, and everything in between is now primarily controlled by APPLE.

Personally, I don't want a major monopoly like that in the audio field. I'm curious to see how motu will stand up to all of this.

CoreMIDI is a standard that I'm sure most audio sequencers for the mac will/would have eventually support anyhow. System-level midi integration with low latencies......

Logic is nice. But I use motu DP. How will this all fair out?

From a user's perspective: Mac Logic users win.

Business perspective: Apple wins, Steinberg now will have more converted customers from Logic on the PC.

Pro Tools has always been their little own niche.

The one left in the curious position is MOTU users & the company.

And the one's completely left in the dust is PC Logic users.

I think that was very un-called for from apple to stop PC development on an app that's been a major vamp of both platforms for so long. Audio programs aren't cheap, and to flush down a major investment [users] like that to 35% of the logic market is appalling! You know if microsoft did that, the world would be angered ten times over [even if the audio market wasn't your specialty] but just because it was microsoft.

I still like apple, but this is one MAJOR thumbs down for them in my book.

......woo all of that was IMO btw ;-)
post #67 of 110
At this point to criticize Apple for dumping the windoze users is a bit premature. It might be a bad move but we don't yet know the motive.

I doubt Apple's decision to dump this source of revenue was made lightly. After all, they support other cross platform apps such as FMP and QT.

Perhaps they have plans down the road for integrating this with other Apple apps/hardware and that integration didn't make sense on a wintel platform?
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post #68 of 110
Either way you look at it, they are dumping a BIG chunk of users. Audio Sequencers are not cheap. Not easy to learn. Especially Logic.

On the PC platform, "great" [subjectively speaking] sequencers are not abundant.

Doesn't matter what apple's motives are, the fact is, they ARE dropping PC development on a platform that A LOT of people depend heavily on and have devoted countless hours to learn........
post #69 of 110
I know what it's like when your favourite product is no longer developped. I was a user of Opcode Studio Vision before Gibson killed it. It's really quite a drag to totally relearn all your audio skills, especially when you're doing something creative like making music.

Another thing is (this is my personal opinion, but one that is shared by my Logic friends), when you're famailiar with Logic, using Cubase feels very restricted. I'm sure Apple is betting on the PC users of Logic to switch to Mac . Spending a few thousand dollars on hardware, is nothing compared to a daily slow down in productivity due to learning another (less powerfull) program. Add to that that current tests have show OS X to have to lowest latency of any platform, and you've got no reason not to switch platforms!

I'm curious though if Apple will release MicroLogic as an iApp. the future is very exciting!!!
post #70 of 110
I'm still using Studio Vision. But maybe depending on what comes out of this Emagic buyout, it'll be exactly what I need to switch over to OS X at home. I would love to see an iMusic or an Audio Pro or something along those lines... but just the fact that some of the hardware and interface issues will be solved makes me feel better.
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post #71 of 110
i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great. Btw i was on a logic-event in decembre 2001 ... they showed Logic 5.0 and Logic Control on a DP 800 ... the emagic-guy said that emagic was very happy about the good situation (development support) between emagic and apple *grin* ... Logic Control is amazing and so is Logic 5 with the ability to have integrated software synths, VST AND TDM plug-Ins... the additional audio-hardware such as the 6|2 could be useful for apple to integrate in future hardware/workstations...

<a href="http://www.apple.com/creative/music/gear/emagic.html" target="_blank">Emagic on Apples Website</a>

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</p>
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post #72 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by Krassy:
<strong>i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great [...]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Logic Control was a collaboration between Emagic and Mackie Designs. The faders are motorized 100mm touch-sensitive Penny & Giles faders (not built by Mackie). Specifications and software implementation by Emagic but designed and assembled by Mackie I guess.
It seems that Mackie has the license to build the same controller for other companies (look here: <a href="http://www.motu.com/)" target="_blank">http://www.motu.com/)</a>
post #73 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by Krassy:
<strong>i don't know if Mackie Design produces the Logic Control Completely but it for sure does the 100mm fader, which are great. Btw i was on a logic-event in decembre 2001 ... they showed Logic 5.0 and Logic Control on a DP 800 ... the emagic-guy said that emagic was very happy about the good situation (development support) between emagic and apple *grin* ... Logic Control is amazing and so is Logic 5 with the ability to have integrated software synths, VST AND TDM plug-Ins... the additional audio-hardware such as the 6|2 could be useful for apple to integrate in future hardware/workstations...

[ 07-02-2002: Message edited by: Krassy ]</strong><hr></blockquote>

Allow me to clarify something, as I work (indirectly) for Emagic:

Logic Control was a joint venture between Mackie and Emagic. Mackie made the the hardware, and Emagic made the software. the recently announced Mackie Control is simply a Logic Control with Digital Performer-specific software developed by MOTU, hence the identical look. BTW Emagic also has HUI Emulation software for the Logic Control, that allows one to use LC on any OMS compatible DAW, like DP, Cubase, and Pro Tools.
post #74 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by zero:
<strong>

Logic Control was a collaboration between Emagic and Mackie Designs. The faders are motorized 100mm touch-sensitive Penny & Giles faders (not built by Mackie). Specifications and software implementation by Emagic but designed and assembled by Mackie I guess.
It seems that Mackie has the license to build the same controller for other companies (look here: <a href="http://www.motu.com/)" target="_blank">http://www.motu.com/)</a></strong><hr></blockquote>

yes - that's very interesting... so what do you think - is the license to build the interface bought from emagic or a result of the partnership between both companies? or is the 'Control' owned by mackie and emagic just sells it for their own products?

hmm...
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post #75 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by Krassy:
<strong>

yes - that's very interesting... so what do you think - is the license to build the interface bought from emagic or a result of the partnership between both companies? or is the 'Control' owned by mackie and emagic just sells it for their own products?

hmm...</strong><hr></blockquote>

a result of partnership, contracts and $bigbucks$. though i expected at least one year of "emagic only" distribution agreement. strange that motu already boasts with the same marketing words as emagic did on its website some month ago. so when will the "motu control" really be available? next summer ?
post #76 of 110
I don't feel sorry for the PC Logic Users. This is business and these apps are about Music Creation.

I want to see a showcase app for displaying what Core Audio can do. I don't want to see half baked attempts by Cross Platform Developers who only use a small function of each platforms strengths to keep the Codebase similar as possible.

Final Cut Pro shows the power of Quicktime.

Logic Audio will show the power of Core Audio.
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post #77 of 110
Well i've always been a ProTools user and always will be. BTW ProTools for X will be out in the Fall (confirmed by emails from digidesign PR). Im postive Digidesign hasn't the slightest thing to worry about with apple's aquisistion of emagic. What im worried about is the other light-weight programs (compared to the industry-standard protools) that are going to have to compete with a program that is getting this much help from apple.
iTunes came out and soundjam got killed rediculously fast (yes i know the main engineer went to apple but they could have continued development)
Other than that, i dont really mind apple taking over emagic. I also couldnt care less about the windows veresion being dropped. These people arent left in the dark. There are dozens of other apps (including a few VERY capable, maybe even more so than logic) that they can go to. OR if they are really serious about music creation, they will buy a mac. The macinotosh platform has always been the choice platform for music production, and i see apple's &emagic as apple trying to carry that into the OS X days.


Just my $0.02
post #78 of 110
You must have never touched Logic.
post #79 of 110
[quote]Originally posted by hmurchison:
<strong>
Final Cut Pro shows the power of Quicktime.

Logic Audio will show the power of Core Audio.</strong><hr></blockquote>

So true! The streets are buzzing like crazy about this. I feel like a kid in a candy store
post #80 of 110
Have to agree with giant on the never touched logic comment. Logic and Protools are pretty much the elite.....the rest are in a lower class.

You think they could do something about the phonebook size manual for logic? <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laughing]" />
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