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Apple responds abuse claims at iPod factories

post #1 of 27
Thread Starter 
Apple has issued a statement in response to a controversial report regarding abusive working conditions within the facilities of some of its Chinese iPod manufacturing partners, according to Macworld UK.

Earlier this week, the UK's Mail on Sunday reported that the iconic digital music players are built primarily by female workers who labor 15-hour days and earn as little as $50 per week.

The report alleged that some workers are crammed into secluded dormitories of 100 people where visitors from the outside world are prohibited. Allegations of physical punishment were also made.

"Apple is committed to ensuring that working conditions in our supply chain are safe, workers are treated with respect and dignity, and manufacturing processes are environmentally responsible," the statement explains.

The company added that it is "currently investigating the allegations regarding working conditions in the iPod manufacturing plant in China" and that "it does not tolerate any violations of its supplier code of conduct, which is posted online."

In the code of conduct, the iPod maker states: "Apple suppliers must uphold the human rights of workers, to treat them with dignity and respect as understood by the international community."

According to the Mail on Sunday, workers at E3 -- a factory that produces the iPod nano -- are allowed only "a few possessions" and a "bucket to wash their clothes." At this factory, work days are said to begin with military-type drills that take place on the roof.
post #2 of 27
I hope those allegations aren't for real... I mean, this is China after all, but still. Makes you wonder how cushy we really have it here in the West.
post #3 of 27
Now we see that the Nike collaboration would work fine at the Asia end. Many companies work in this way, only a few are exposed with no legal 'blame' because construction is contracted out.
post #4 of 27
It's a good first step for Apple to provide the media with its worker code:

This is the Apple Supplier Code of Conduct.

I was impressed by a number of things, the first of which was Apple's obvious awareness of the cultural/societal differences between factories in the U.S. and those in China and elsewhere. There is a clear undertstanding of the many human rights/fairness issues that we've been discussing on these boards.

I was uneasy with the clause that said that a work week should be no more than 60 hours "except in emergency or unusual situations." Does a product shortage count as an unusual situation? How about a shortage of workers? The term "reasonable living space" (referring to worker dormitories) similarly got my attention.

I hope that Apple doesn't leave these terms up to the interpretation of factory managers who may want to bend them to mean otherwise. This .PDF does not reflect an operationalization or proceduralization of most of this code - whether there is a more detailed document elsewhere, I don't know.
post #5 of 27
Good for Apple.

But let's face it - how (or why) can any of these companies in China respect the human rights of their workers when their own government does not?

It's the dirty laundry we all know about, but don't want to see.
post #6 of 27
I am so sick of the two faced hypocritical statements and demands we put on as a facade to make us all feel better. That we are at LEAST complaining. On one side of the fence, we complain about corporations, monopolies, and dominating market, and "Squeezing out the little guy". This in a sense is related to self serving greed. We are all really concerned about popping the bubble of our personal "American Dream" of starting a company and getting filthy rich. We all don't want anything to come in the way of that. BUT, when we choose to buy from Wal-Mart, one who is notorious for overtaking small communities with a super store that puts all small business owners out of work, but even knowing this, the bottom line is that it is cheaper for us. I know of no competing computers that do not make and assemble most, if not all of their products somewhere other than America or Europe, due to the regulations, costs, permits, wages, etc., that would make that product no longer a competitive product due to price. Apple is under direct fire over their ipod "Dominance". Sony, Creative, Micro$oft, Toshiba, etc.. Would all like to do ANYTHING to reduce Apple's share of the pie, so that they can have a chance to gain it all for themselves. On a previous thread on this same topic, I wrote how the average Family income per household in China ranges from $890 (US) to $1,100 (US) per YEAR. It does suck, as to our standards, but at least with the business from ipods and computers, that wage became 2.2 x the average wage PLUS room and board, and only for ONE member of the household. It still sucks, but is is a giant step forward in progression of that economy. This is an upward trend that must continue for the people of China and many other countries. So next time you find yourself complaining about the fact that Apple does not make $200 desktops, or $300 laptops, or when you go to your local store, shop for what you want, ask questions, etc., then go home and buy from whoever because it was cheaper, remember that for companies to give that to you, it comes at a "Cost".
-ReCompile-
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post #7 of 27
Quote:
I am so sick of the two faced hypocritical statements and demands we put on as a facade to make us all feel better. That we are at LEAST complaining. On one side of the fence, we complain about corporations, monopolies, and dominating market, and "Squeezing out the little guy". This in a sense is related to self serving greed. We are all really concerned about popping the bubble of our personal "American Dream" of starting a company and getting filthy rich. We all don't want anything to come in the way of that. BUT, when we choose to buy from Wal-Mart, one who is notorious for overtaking small communities with a super store that puts all small business owners out of work, but even knowing this, the bottom line is that it is cheaper for us. I know of no competing computers that do not make and assemble most, if not all of their products somewhere other than America or Europe, due to the regulations, costs, permits, wages, etc., that would make that product no longer a competitive product due to price. Apple is under direct fire over their ipod "Dominance". Sony, Creative, Micro$oft, Toshiba, etc.. Would all like to do ANYTHING to reduce Apple's share of the pie, so that they can have a chance to gain it all for themselves. On a previous thread on this same topic, I wrote how the average Family income per household in China ranges from $890 (US) to $1,100 (US) per YEAR. It does suck, as to our standards, but at least with the business from ipods and computers, that wage became 2.2 x the average wage PLUS room and board, and only for ONE member of the household. It still sucks, but is is a giant step forward in progression of that economy. This is an upward trend that must continue for the people of China and many other countries. So next time you find yourself complaining about the fact that Apple does not make $200 desktops, or $300 laptops, or when you go to your local store, shop for what you want, ask questions, etc., then go home and buy from whoever because it was cheaper, remember that for companies to give that to you, it comes at a "Cost".

How DARE YOU! you are such a heartless individual. Can't you see that it's not our fault as consumers, but the fault of the companies that brainwash us all to buy into their monopolies? Nothing is ever the fault of the individual, everything is the fault of the major corporations! And throwing in logic, that they are making 2.2x the average daily wage on top of getting room and board? simple blasphemy, that's all! we as westerners have to feel guilty about us having more than anyone else, even if they are happy to have what little they do! You see, if you were to pay the poor slaves in those factories what American workers made, than everyone would be safe, and loved, and hugged, and no one would ever have to feel bad about anything! Skyrocketing prices of electronics and virtually everything else is a small price to pay when considering how much better we would all feel about ourselves! At least for that week, until we realized that there are other poor nations that might need our help too, and then we can go back to feeling that fantastic guilt that goes with realizing that we might have it better than some person somewhere. god bless america!


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post #8 of 27
Having lived for awhile in a third world country, "having a bucket to wash their clothes" is actually fairly standard practice, from my experience. I fact, it's a step up from those that have to go down to the river to wash them because they don't have a bucket.
post #9 of 27
This story is no different than more than a dozen or so that you can google up. What is different is the Apple and iPod brand names are attached to this one. This is just like that organization that tried to rake Apple over the coals for not recycling old computers last year. They used Apple because of Apples high visibility, to promote their cause. Not because Apple was worse than any other electronics manufacturer.

It comes down to this. The values in China are different than they are here. The workers in China are willing to put up with far more for far less than we westerners are. I don't see much difference in China's current working situations and the conditions that were present here in the US at the turn of the 20 century. Like us. The changes (we'd like to see occur) in their workman's ethics have to come from within China. However, their current ethos gives China an advantage in the world market. China has yet to see a true Industrial revolution like Europe and America saw in the two previous centuries. When they do. The market they create will make the current market we enjoy dominance over, look pathetic. Their population is currently 11X ours. Imagine a Quadrillion Dollar market cap.

The people working in the factories are happy to have the work. They're making a pittance by our standards. But it's a multiplier more than they'd make in the rural farms where most of them come from. Perception of personal freedoms are also different in China. Until about 10 years ago most adults in China had no concept of Intellectual Property. The Chinese government has been trying to teach this concept to it's populace through a soap opera where an author writes a book and it gets stolen and published before the original.
post #10 of 27
Definitely not trying to freak anyone out, but it surely makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside to hear people actually defending the free market for a change. makes me feel other things too....
Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither - ben franklin

ben franklin was a retard - john
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Those who would trade liberty for security deserve neither - ben franklin

ben franklin was a retard - john
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post #11 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Plague Bearer
This story is no different than more than a dozen or so that you can google up. What is different is the Apple and iPod brand names are attached to this one. This is just like that organization that tried to rake Apple over the coals for not recycling old computers last year. They used Apple because of Apples high visibility, to promote their cause. Not because Apple was worse than any other electronics manufacturer.

It comes down to this. The values in China are different than they are here. The workers in China are willing to put up with far more for far less than we westerners are. I don't see much difference in China's current working situations and the conditions that were present here in the US at the turn of the 20 century. Like us. The changes (we'd like to see occur) in their workman's ethics have to come from within China. However, their current ethos gives China an advantage in the world market. China has yet to see a true Industrial revolution like Europe and America saw in the two previous centuries. When they do. The market they create will make the current market we enjoy dominance over, look pathetic. Their population is currently 11X ours. Imagine a Quadrillion Dollar market cap.

The people working in the factories are happy to have the work. They're making a pittance by our standards. But it's a multiplier more than they'd make in the rural farms where most of them come from. Perception of personal freedoms are also different in China. Until about 10 years ago most adults in China had no concept of Intellectual Property. The Chinese government has been trying to teach this concept to it's populace through a soap opera where an author writes a book and it gets stolen and published before the original.

I'm glad you brought up the industrial revolution that the US and Europe went through. That industrial revolution is happening right now in China. What people need to do is look into the future and see how much better off China is going to be several years down the road. Look how we are doing as a country after our industrial revolution. The standards during the industrial revolution here were about the same as the standards in China right now. Here children worked long hours for little pay, and even took their work home with them sometimes. And guess what, back then there was no mega-country, like the current US, to help raise the standards back then. This problem will fix itself with time.
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post #12 of 27
I just have to laugh at the hypocrisy of people who say we shouldn't be arrogantly forcing our way of life on other societies... except when it comes to our notions of human rights and dignity.
post #13 of 27
Now I know why I visit AI instead of a lot of other sites for commentary.

All you posters are really clued in, instead of being clueless!

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post #14 of 27
After reading this, I actually have a sudden urge to go out and buy an iPod. =)
post #15 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by maimezvous
I'm glad you brought up the industrial revolution that the US and Europe went through. That industrial revolution is happening right now in China. What people need to do is look into the future and see how much better off China is going to be several years down the road. Look how we are doing as a country after our industrial revolution. The standards during the industrial revolution here were about the same as the standards in China right now. Here children worked long hours for little pay, and even took their work home with them sometimes. And guess what, back then there was no mega-country, like the current US, to help raise the standards back then. This problem will fix itself with time.

Right, I'll keep buying pointless toys like iPods, safe in the knowledge that even though I'm probably harming some underage, overworked foreign worker now, it'll be all right in time.

So glad you cleared that up.
post #16 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Right, I'll keep buying pointless toys like iPods, safe in the knowledge that even though I'm probably harming some underage, overworked foreign worker now...

And your shoes, shirts, pants, other electronic devices, etc.
post #17 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Right, I'll keep buying pointless toys like iPods, safe in the knowledge that even though I'm probably harming some underage, overworked foreign worker now, it'll be all right in time.

So glad you cleared that up.

I'll start by saying I'm considered by most who know me as a radical liberal, and I have a Masters degree in Ethics.

Now, I have a (loaded) question for you...

Which is better, the 15 year old girl working 15 hours a day and bringing home an extra 4800 Yuan a year for her farming family, or the same give working 15 hour days in the fields?

It's easy for us to react to "$50/month" in horror, but without a little more context, it's pretty pointless. So, as of 2003 the average farmer in China was taking home about 1200 yuan a year. Yeah, so the iPod factory gives even a 15 year old girl (hypothetically) the opportunity to quadruple her family's income. Obviously the details of the working conditions are critical to determining how good or bad this situation really is. The Macworld article, if you can call it that, which isn't attributed to any author (a red flag) is truly awful reporting, and clearly meant to sensationalize the story. "workers live in dormitories that house 100 people" yeah, so? I went to college and lived in "dormitories that housed 400 people". It means nothing without some more context...my dorm was also patrolled by security guards, and didn't allow outsiders in. We were even "forced to live in small rooms with multiple strangers". It sounds really bad out of context, but perfectly accepted if you know it's referring to a college dorm.

Now, I'm not saying all Chinese factories are fun places, and that workers don't get abused both directly and indirectly, it absolutely happens, and that sucks, and we SHOULD BE MORE AWARE OF IT! And do our social duty to boycott businesses that violate human rights (Wal Mart for sure!) But I still say this article is utter rubbish for its sensationalism and complete lack of context and meaningful facts. I strongly urge all of you to write to Macworld and complain, not because "we love Apple", but because this is a truly important issue that should be properly reported.
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post #18 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
And your shoes, shirts, pants, other electronic devices, etc.

Shoes are German made - Birkenstocks
Shirt is Welsh (made from Turkish organic cotton by Howies).
Pants - Scottish
Mac - China mostly, Hmmm. It's a little trickier to get non-Chinese computers these days.

I think globalisation is a real shame so I usually at least make some attempt at avoiding it. Difficult sometimes though. Not buying something that has no purpose, like an iPod, is dead easy.

My point wasn't that you shouldn't buy things from China, it was a sarcastic response that it's somehow fine that China may be going through all the nasty crap the 1st World went through during it's industrial revolution like child labour, long hours, bad conditions, poor pay, pollution, poor safety etc because 'look at us, we turned out fine in time'.

I'm based right in the mill towns of Yorkshire and Lancashire in Northern England, where the industrialised world began, in the dark satanic mills of William Blake's poetry. The outside of my house, which is circa 1830, is black from the smoke of the mill chimneys. History need not repeat itself.

So, if Apple's contractor is treating their workers badly, I'd like Apple to do something about it since they're a western company with western ideals selling to western customers. Waiting for the end of China's industrial revolution stage isn't really a good enough response.

Then again, I'm sure it's not as bad as the Mail painted it. The Mail are blandly middle-englander at the best of times and are sensationalist right wing toss pots at their worst. The original report struck me as something to get their readership indignantly enraged about over their rounds of golf on Sunday safe in the knowledge that only teenagers and layabouts bought those horrible iPod music thingies and so it didn't affect them. I'm sure they didn't look at where their golf clubs came from.
post #19 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by concentricity
I strongly urge all of you to write to Macworld and complain, not because "we love Apple", but because this is a truly important issue that should be properly reported.

I believe they did report it properly and attribute the story correctly to the Mail on Sunday. If you're going to right to anyone, write to the Mail.

I guess they'll think they've written a cracking good story though if it had the effect of annoying liberal left leaning do-gooders though.
post #20 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Shoes are German made - Birkenstocks
Shirt is Welsh (made from Turkish organic cotton by Howies).
Pants - Scottish

All of them or just the one's you happen to be wearing? Be honest now.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I think globalisation is a real shame

Why?

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Not buying something that has no purpose, like an iPod, is dead easy.

Hmmm...I'll bet that most of what most westerners own has no real purpose. We could all get by without our gadgets, with fewer clothes in our closets, smaller homes, etc.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
it's somehow fine that China may be going through all the nasty crap the 1st World went through during it's industrial revolution

What is fine is that China (and India) are finally starting to grow (faster than any other countries in the world BTW)...and this growth is pulling their people up higher and faster.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
History need not repeat itself.

Yes and no. Sometimes things have to occur in a certain order or way. Most (not all) of China and India in unskilled labor. They have something to offer...their labor. They should be able to do so...but they do so in a competitive landscape which keeps their (current) wages lower. Over time this rises and changes though. History has shown us this over and over again.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
So, if Apple's contractor is treating their workers badly,

Which we don't really know, based on the sloppy, slipshod, unbalanced reporting we have to cull from.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I'd like Apple to do something about it

Which they appear to be.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Waiting for the end of China's industrial revolution stage isn't really a good enough response.

No one is really saying that so much as they are saying there seems to be a necessay order to development. You should read Jeffrey Sachs' book "The End of Poverty" for some more insight on this whole subject.

Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
The original report struck me as something to get their readership indignantly enraged about

I wish this were the exception in "journalism" today rather than the rule.
post #21 of 27
The sad thing is Dell of all companies actually makes some of their PCs right here in the USA. That's right. Dell. I would even be willing to pay a premium for Macs/iPods made in the USA but I doubt many others would. We rely far too much on other countires as it is. Can't we do anything ourselves anymore?

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post #22 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
All of them or just the one's you happen to be wearing? Be honest now.

Shoes - 4x Korea (all Shimano bike shoes), 2 Germany, 2 Italy, 1 China (asics running shoes) and 1 old pair of USA made Vans. I do quite badly at local shoes with none English.

Shirts - too many to count. I only wear t-shirts though. It's not that difficult to avoid the Gildans and the Fruits of the Looms of the world although I'm sure there's some in there that I've been given. I used to work as a bike journalist so for some years the only clothes I had were those I blagged, reviewed or were given by bike company PR.

Pants (in the English sense) - Yes, all Scottish as I only have one brand. Trousers on the other hand are Italian and Scottish. I only wear two brands and actually only have 3 pairs of trousers anyway although even they change about manufacturing facilities.

Most of the other stuff I've got is Taiwanese as that's where most of the world's bikes come from. There's a move to China and Vietnam but only in the low end and many of the high end companies just don't like the quality coming out of China just now.


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Why?

I think globalisation is a real shame because companies end up shipping products all the way around the world using up stupid amounts of resources in doing so. Further, it means that local markets are colonised by foreign goods which are produced more cheaply than the locals can produce and those goods are often culturally bland and push out local culture.

See MacDonalds, Japanese cars, Bike manufacturers.


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
Hmmm...I'll bet that most of what most westerners own has no real purpose. We could all get by without our gadgets, with fewer clothes in our closets, smaller homes, etc.

Yes, and I do although I'll draw the line at no Mac or Bicycles. :-)

As I've got older I've realised what's important, and it's not possessions, although my bike collection probably says otherwise to most people. Most of the western world seems to be on a mission to consume and I know I'm at odds with that. I'm also fine with that.


Quote:
Originally posted by Chris Cuilla
What is fine is that China (and India) are finally starting to grow (faster than any other countries in the world BTW)...and this growth is pulling their people up higher and faster.

And whilst doing so they're making some of the same mistakes we made and continue to make. That doesn't mean it's ok and it doesn't mean I want to appear to be preaching at the 3rd world about how to grow responsibly when we've not. But, if it's a western company we're talking about using 3rd world labour then I think we have just cause to be vigilant.
post #23 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by concentricity
I'll start by saying I'm considered by most who know me as a radical liberal, and I have a Masters degree in Ethics.

Now, I have a (loaded) question for you...

Which is better, the 15 year old girl working 15 hours a day and bringing home an extra 4800 Yuan a year for her farming family, or the same give working 15 hour days in the fields?

It's easy for us to react to "$50/month" in horror, but without a little more context, it's pretty pointless. So, as of 2003 the average farmer in China was taking home about 1200 yuan a year. Yeah, so the iPod factory gives even a 15 year old girl (hypothetically) the opportunity to quadruple her family's income. Obviously the details of the working conditions are critical to determining how good or bad this situation really is. The Macworld article, if you can call it that, which isn't attributed to any author (a red flag) is truly awful reporting, and clearly meant to sensationalize the story. "workers live in dormitories that house 100 people" yeah, so? I went to college and lived in "dormitories that housed 400 people". It means nothing without some more context...my dorm was also patrolled by security guards, and didn't allow outsiders in. We were even "forced to live in small rooms with multiple strangers". It sounds really bad out of context, but perfectly accepted if you know it's referring to a college dorm.

Now, I'm not saying all Chinese factories are fun places, and that workers don't get abused both directly and indirectly, it absolutely happens, and that sucks, and we SHOULD BE MORE AWARE OF IT! And do our social duty to boycott businesses that violate human rights (Wal Mart for sure!) But I still say this article is utter rubbish for its sensationalism and complete lack of context and meaningful facts. I strongly urge all of you to write to Macworld and complain, not because "we love Apple", but because this is a truly important issue that should be properly reported.

I agree. One thing though, they recruit 16 and up.
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post #24 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by 1984
The sad thing is Dell of all companies actually makes some of their PCs right here in the USA. That's right. Dell. I would even be willing to pay a premium for Macs/iPods made in the USA but I doubt many others would. We rely far too much on other countires as it is. Can't we do anything ourselves anymore?

I really REALLY doubt your taking about the components, you're probably talking about the assembly of the actual computer.
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post #25 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by ReCompile
I am so sick of the two faced hypocritical statements and demands we put on as a facade to make us all feel better. That we are at LEAST complaining. On one side of the fence, we complain about corporations, monopolies, and dominating market, and "Squeezing out the little guy". This in a sense is related to self serving greed. We are all really concerned about popping the bubble of our personal "American Dream" of starting a company and getting filthy rich. We all don't want anything to come in the way of that. BUT, when we choose to buy from Wal-Mart, one who is notorious for overtaking small communities with a super store that puts all small business owners out of work, but even knowing this, the bottom line is that it is cheaper for us. I know of no competing computers that do not make and assemble most, if not all of their products somewhere other than America or Europe, due to the regulations, costs, permits, wages, etc., that would make that product no longer a competitive product due to price. Apple is under direct fire over their ipod "Dominance". Sony, Creative, Micro$oft, Toshiba, etc.. Would all like to do ANYTHING to reduce Apple's share of the pie, so that they can have a chance to gain it all for themselves. On a previous thread on this same topic, I wrote how the average Family income per household in China ranges from $890 (US) to $1,100 (US) per YEAR. It does suck, as to our standards, but at least with the business from ipods and computers, that wage became 2.2 x the average wage PLUS room and board, and only for ONE member of the household. It still sucks, but is is a giant step forward in progression of that economy. This is an upward trend that must continue for the people of China and many other countries. So next time you find yourself complaining about the fact that Apple does not make $200 desktops, or $300 laptops, or when you go to your local store, shop for what you want, ask questions, etc., then go home and buy from whoever because it was cheaper, remember that for companies to give that to you, it comes at a "Cost".

While I find such practises do suck, I remember that our countries were exactly the same a hundred years ago.

As China becomes more wealthy, the exact same things will happen there as happened here. Its part of the process of becoming a developed nation. It sucks watching other countries going through this process from my comfy chair and warm bed, and I don't like to see, or contribute too people being treated like shit, but its a temporary thing that you have to go through before you achieve the luxuries we are accostomed too.

Its up to us, as consumers to buy from companies that push foriegn companies towards equality, but we cant push it so far that they go out of business. Those conditions are better than having no job, no income, no home and no prospects.
post #26 of 27
I've worked in Hong Kong and China for 10 years and I've visited Foxconn and dozens of other factories. Companies like Apple, Home Depot, Walmart have strict requirements for working conditions. There can be temporary abuses, however.

Before we pass sentence on these people for "low pay" and exploiting let me relate this- whatever the conditions, there are at least 200 people every day lined up outside the factory to take the next vacancy.

The truth is, a brother and sister can work these factories for two years and change their family's economic stars forever. Yep, true. Many of the workers are from remote farm communities. They go home having saved about $3000 to $4000 each. That kind of money allows the purchase of a small farm or a shop. Getting hired on in Shenzhen factory is akin to winning the lottery for some (bet this statement ruffles some feathers).

So tell me, can you work ANY low end job in America for a two year stint and seriously do anything more than just feed yourself and family?

Dorms- true, the photo shows miserable conditions. My experience is that factories build much better. I have not seen the dorms at Fox but I would guess that the photo is showing a temporary condition- remember, the ramp up of production lines for iPod has been intense.

And true, there is a greater percentage of women working in all Chinese electronic factories.
post #27 of 27
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Right, I'll keep buying pointless toys like iPods, safe in the knowledge that even though I'm probably harming some underage, overworked foreign worker now, it'll be all right in time.

So glad you cleared that up.

Ignoring your sarcasm, you're right, you should keep buying pointless toys even though they are produced by overworked foreign workers. The more involved other countries become in China's economy, the better off it will be.
"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" ~ Vroomfondel
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"We demand rigidly defined areas of doubt and uncertainty!" ~ Vroomfondel
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