or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple's Leopard has its eye on Redmond
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple's Leopard has its eye on Redmond - Page 2

post #41 of 145
(wtf? triple post? sorry )
post #42 of 145
I think the map integration is a great idea but, like it's been said above, why would Apple waste time and resources developing its own map service? Google Earth is by far the most advanced virtual atlas, and I believe the API is available, so why not just integrate with Google's client? I'm also sure, given Google's fondness for all things Mac, that Google would welcome the inclusion.

A Google/Apple partnership for quick maps and driving directions in Leopard sounds great, doesn't it? Or am I missing something?

MBP 17" (early 2011) • iMac 24" (mid-2007) • iBook G3 (early 2001)

Reply

MBP 17" (early 2011) • iMac 24" (mid-2007) • iBook G3 (early 2001)

Reply
post #43 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Mac OS 8 ruled, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

Tempo and its successors brought us HFS+, long filenames, and later on, Sherlock.

Ah, good times. Read all about it.

Erm. Long filenames isn't a good example since 1) Windows 95 already had that (although, unlike HFS+, FAT32 didn't implement this natively), so Apple was behind on this, and 2) the Finder in OS 8 could, as far as I recall, not actually write or interpret long file names.
post #44 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
the Finder in OS 8 could, as far as I recall, not actually write or interpret long file names.

If the wikipedia is right then it could since OS 8 introduced HFS+ and thus long file names...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFS_Plus

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #45 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by DaveGee
If the wikipedia is right then it could since OS 8 introduced HFS+ and thus long file names...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HFS_Plus

Dave

OS 8.1 introduced HFS+, yes, but the Finder didn't support long file names. From "Mac OS X: About Long File Names":
Quote:
If a file with a long name is viewed while started up from Mac OS 9, some of the file name's first twenty five characters are displayed along with a unique hexadecimal reference number. To view the full file name, start up from Mac OS X.

While this doesn't explicitly mention OS 8, it is implied that X is the first version to actually support displaying full names.
post #46 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
OS 8.1 introduced HFS+, yes, but the Finder didn't support long file names.

I stand corrected...

Linky: http://www.applelust.com/oped/applep..._appel012.html

Maybe it was because Mac OS pretty much always supported 'kinda long' (31 chars I think) filenames in the finder.

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #47 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Frank777
Mac OS 8 ruled, and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.

We must have had dramaticly differant experiances with it...at school we had crashing, apps would wig out randomly, and of course, the hockeypuck mouse (not an OS problem, but using it was a PITA...)

I mean my god, the school was still running the Macs on APPLETALK...ever hear of TCP/IP???

At the same time (pre spyware and automated hacks that requier no user intervention) Windows was pretty snappy and fairly stable with three or four apps running...I can only referance what I saw...and I didnt like what I saw...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #48 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by m01ety
Integrating Address Book and iCal (please be called Calendar in Leopard, please!!) also makes no sense to me. Whatever happened to small apps doing one thing, and doing it well?

This is the one thing I really don't understand in all of these screenshots and rumours. Mail + AddressCalendar doesn't make sense. Vista will be including three separate apps (although after playing with them still aren't technically very good) and I think that's the way it should be done. For two years I have praised the ease of use, elegance, simplicity and interaction of the three personal information manager apps.

I'm much more disturbed by that than the windows stuff...
Daniel Tull
Reply
Daniel Tull
Reply
post #49 of 145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by a_greer
I mean my god, the school was still running the Macs on APPLETALK...ever hear of TCP/IP???



Hey man, AppleTalk... Brings back memories of mid to late 90's. Old skool bra, old skool. Yeah.

I mean, it was only because of the INTARWEB that TCP/IP exploded into the form it is now and how we take it for granted.

But AppleTalk, that was Networking on Apple Systems. Wow. The memories......
post #50 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
One of the rumored features is said to be OS-level integration of a geographical mapping technology, similar to Microsoft's Virtual Earth. In recent months, Microsoft has made several acquisitions aimed at bolstering its Virtual Earth division, including a buyout of Vexcel Corp.

According to sources, Apple has been working on a similar approach, but modeled after Google's Maps feature. The technology will presumably allow Leopard users to scour the globe through satellite imagery and whisk up driving directions on the drop of a dime.

I think these two paragraphs are misleading. I have no doubt that Apple is looking into geographical mapping technology. But, it will not be "OS-level" and it will not be served by Apple.

I can't see any reason to integrate geographical mapping technology into an OS at this point in time. I can, however, see putting it in Sherlock. As a matter of fact, that seems like the perfect place for it to me. To start talking about OS-level integration, I think we're going to need to see built-in GPS units.

<rumor mongering>
Get your tinfoil hats now! Apple's putting GPS units in all of their laptops. Combined with built-in iSight, they'll not only be able to see you, but also know where you are!
</rumor mongering>

Also, why would Apple even bother trying to host geographical mapping data? If they do anything, they'll connect to someone else's server, and just put a nice UI on it that users can reach easily without opening Safari.
Mmmm... 12" PowerBook - my best computer yet!
Reply
Mmmm... 12" PowerBook - my best computer yet!
Reply
post #51 of 145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dr. X
This is fake. Notice on the About This Mac window, it says 1 GB DDR SDRAM. I checked and all Intel Mac's use DDR2 Ram.



This is so weird. If it is fake it is so well faked, one could say, and raises a lot of disturbing yet intriguing ideas.

Why The HELL did the faker miss out on the DDR2 bit? After a pristine fake, the DDR detail is like, a big careless mistake. Weird.
post #52 of 145
CrazyWingman, sorry I'm gonna be a dick and say that your PowerBook 12" sucks ass now. Teh history, buddy.
post #53 of 145
Those dissing AppleTalk perhaps don't realize that it had the features of Bonjour, only about 1.5 decades earlier.
post #54 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Those dissing AppleTalk perhaps don't realize that it had the features of Bonjour, only about 1.5 decades earlier.

Which features? propriaterity?

IPX, Appletalk, IBM Token, they were all fairly good at what they did...but they couldnt work together...hence the adoption of TCP/IP and IPv4
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #55 of 145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by a_greer
...but they couldnt work together...hence the adoption of TCP/IP and IPv4


And thus the intarweb was born, exploding into the almost unfathomable myriad of networked people, devices, computers, in a billion different ways never imagined before. What a difference 10 years makes. 1996-2006: Explosion of the Internet reaching far out to every corner of the world.

TCP/IP and IPv4 is also good for pr0n. Almost any dodgy image you want, almost any fetish, instantly available in the privacy of your own computer screen.

*Goodness, I talk bollocks sometimes. Feel free to slap me anytime*
post #56 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by emig647
There will always be a performance hit. Not a big hit, but a noticeable one. If apple can pull this off correctly, people will want to make native os x apps before windows apps if the adoption of os x goes up a lot.

This could be a big thing for apple, a lot of people would only dream of running any app in the world on 1 computer. If apple can do it, i think a lot more people will be using os x... which in the end will open developers' eyes.

Maybe, but it's hard to imagine that really happening. If any app can run under os x and there are all ready way more windows apps that way more people use, then why change? If os x could really run any windows app, making a windows app instead of an os x app would make a lot more sense for a developer. If a windows app can run on any computer in the world (pretty much) and an os x app can still only run on macs (even though macs would become much more popular because of the switch), it would make sense to make a windows app. I don't want that to happen, no one does, but to me it just doesn't make sense.
post #57 of 145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Homestar06
Maybe, but it's hard to imagine that really happening. If any app can run under os x and there are all ready way more windows apps that way more people use, then why change? If os x could really run any windows app, making a windows app instead of an os x app would make a lot more sense for a developer. If a windows app can run on any computer in the world (pretty much) and an os x app can still only run on macs (even though macs would become much more popular because of the switch), it would make sense to make a windows app. I don't want that to happen, no one does, but to me it just doesn't make sense.



WWDC 2005: Steve Jobs tells developers: you are going to be coding for Intel as well now.

WWDC 2006: Steve Jobs tells developers: you are going to be coding for Windows as well now
post #58 of 145
Defintely two schools of thought on windows under Mac. I believe it will allow people to buy Mac HARDWARE and have a 99% Mac experience. My brother is itching to get a Mac but Quick Books Pro and ARC GIS stuff is the hold up.

People will purchase Mac only software and only use those one or two programs that are only for windows in their Mac. No matter what happens, I don't believe you will be able to run games, AE, etc., type programs. My brother wants FCS, Omni Outliner and Graffle so bad he can taste it.

Apple will give us a carrott but not the whole fruit basket.
Hard-Core.
Reply
Hard-Core.
Reply
post #59 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Which features? propriaterity?

IPX, Appletalk, IBM Token, they were all fairly good at what they did...but they couldnt work together...hence the adoption of TCP/IP and IPv4

Service discovery. AppleTalk and NetBEUI can do it; TCP/IP can't.

Sure, TCP/IP is more universal, and I wouldn't want to go back, but AppleTalk is far easier to use.
post #60 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Service discovery. AppleTalk and NetBEUI can do it; TCP/IP can't.

Sure, TCP/IP is more universal, and I wouldn't want to go back, but AppleTalk is far easier to use.

Service discovery happens at OSI layers 4-7, it can be done, in the application, presentation or session layers... I really cant see what service discovery has to do with the routed adderssing protocol. netBEUI can run atop tcp/ip...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #61 of 145
Did anyone point out that in the "desktop switcher" neither the dock nor the menu bar are in the transition? This is probably just a desktop background. Its hard to tell though, since desktop transitions (as far as I know) have been the cube effect where we wouldn't know if the dock would be effected. Just a though. Sorry if this has been pointed out already.
post #62 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Service discovery happens at OSI layers 4-7, it can be done, in the application, presentation or session layers... I really cant see what service discovery has to do with the routed adderssing protocol. netBEUI can run atop tcp/ip...

Yes, and it is done, in Bonjour, as I pointed out, oh, several posts before.

But it isn't done per default, and Bonjour came many, many years after AppleTalk already offered this functionality. That's the entire point. Don't give me OSI layers because they don't matter to the user.

"Why can't I do" _"Oh, because that has to do with a different layer." _"Gee, thanks, that helps"
post #63 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
IPX, Appletalk, IBM Token, they were all fairly good at what they did...but they couldnt work together...hence the adoption of TCP/IP and IPv4

Umm, the Appletalk suite included Tokentalk as its layer 2 protocol for running over Token Ring. IPX/SPX, being a layer 3/4 protocol, ran just fine on Token Ring as well.

Your point is well taken though, the trend toward one unifying protocol suite doomed Appletalk and IPX since what was to become the Internet used TCP/IP.
post #64 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
netBEUI can run atop tcp/ip...

I think you are thinking of NetBIOS? NetBEUI and TCP/IP exist at the same OSI layers so don't work to well together. NetBIOS is a layer 5 protocol and runs fine with TCP/IP.
post #65 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Service discovery. AppleTalk and NetBEUI can do it; TCP/IP can't.

TCP/IP can. There are two principle methods, both used by Apple - SLP and Zeroconf. SLP was created by Apple to bring Appletalk-like service discovery to TCP/IP. It was then standardized by the IETF. SLP was used in OS 8.5 and OS X pre-zeroconf (Bonjour).

I do agree that Appletalk had some nice features for private networks including service discovery before TCP/IP. So did IPX/SPX. In part, this is due to the original purposes of each protocol.
post #66 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by hmmfe
TCP/IP can.

With extensions, sure.

Quote:
There are two principle methods, both used by Apple - SLP and Zeroconf. SLP was created by Apple to bring Appletalk-like service discovery to TCP/IP. It was then standardized by the IETF. SLP was used in OS 8.5 and OS X pre-zeroconf (Bonjour).

Yes, I knew about SLP, and I pointed out Bonjour (ZeroConf) long ago.

Quote:
I do agree that Appletalk had some nice features for private networks including service discovery before TCP/IP. So did IPX/SPX. In part, this is due to the original purposes of each protocol.

The point is that, for the typical end user, AppleTalk had more relevant features out of the box.
post #67 of 145
Looks like it was all fake though: The jig is up....

I can rest easy now, safe with the knowledge that iCal and Address Book may not become one...
Daniel Tull
Reply
Daniel Tull
Reply
post #68 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
With extensions, sure.

Yes, I knew about SLP, and I pointed out Bonjour (ZeroConf) long ago.

The point is that, for the typical end user, AppleTalk had more relevant features out of the box.

Well, then I guess you can also say that Appletalk can't do service discovery without the NBP extension. Semantics, I guess.

edit: typos
post #69 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by danielctull
I can rest easy now, safe with the knowledge that iCal and Address Book may not become one...

Yea out of all the things the guy could have come up with choosing something so freakin random as merging Address Book and iCal into a single application.... Sheech, that's something you might expect from the Windows world but certainly not from Apple.

It's quite clear Apple made a conscious choice NOT to merge Mail+AddressBook+iCal into a single PIM type application.

Dave
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
Apple Fanboy: Anyone who started liking Apple before I did!
Reply
post #70 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by hmmfe
I think you are thinking of NetBIOS? NetBEUI and TCP/IP exist at the same OSI layers so don't work to well together. NetBIOS is a layer 5 protocol and runs fine with TCP/IP.

woops...thats what I get for posting too early on a Saturday morning
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #71 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Denmaru
Windows Apps running side by side with Macintosh Apps?

Dear Lord... what have they done. This could be the final straw for native Applications on the Mac. Why should developers bother porting something over, if they can run the Windows Version.

Because many people will not want to install Windows on their machine, not to mention the ability to use OS specific functionality. As for me the only other OSes I would install on my Mac is Gentoo or FreeBSD and that is only because I would want to use GNUstep since I am learning Obj-C/Cocoa.
post #72 of 145
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunilraman
Quote:
[i]Originally posted by Dr. X
After a pristine fake, the DDR detail is like, a big careless mistake. Weird.

Maybe the '2' was photoshopped out to make it "look" faked.
post #73 of 145
Anybody else besides me want the slick Ajaxian/Aperture and the Front Row UI extended further throughout the OS? I love the black and grey transparent windows with the dashes of colour and the cool CoreImage effects.
5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
Reply
5-8" MultiTouch Mini Tablet would go down a treat if you're reading!
Reply
post #74 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Why The HELL did the faker miss out on the DDR2 bit? After a pristine fake, the DDR detail is like, a big careless mistake. Weird. [/B]

I'd imagine, if it's not fake, that given the guy has posted screenshots of software that's under NDA, they'd quite possibly be running it on non-Apple hardware too.

edit: Oops. Must read rest of thread before posting - it is fake. Still, there was some nice ideas there. I'd be quite impressed if Apple got the seamless Windows integration working although a little worried for app developers.
post #75 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by troberts
Because many people will not want to install Windows on their machine, not to mention the ability to use OS specific functionality. As for me the only other OSes I would install on my Mac is Gentoo or FreeBSD and that is only because I would want to use GNUstep since I am learning Obj-C/Cocoa.

Why would you want GNUStep to learn Obective-C/Cocoa when you've MacOSX already ?
post #76 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
I'd imagine, if it's not fake, that given the guy has posted screenshots of software that's under NDA, they'd quite possibly be running it on non-Apple hardware too.

Since the guy has already admitted that
1) it's fake
2) he doesn't have an Intel Mac so he had to recreate the About This Mac box's contents tot his best of his knowledge,
and since he even provides a PSD file for people to see how he's done it, I'm not sure what further merit this discussion has.
post #77 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Why would you want GNUStep to learn Obective-C/Cocoa when you've MacOSX already ?

He did mention Gentoo and FreeBSD. I guess his idea is that, once you write in Cocoa, it will mostly run in GNUstep as well.

Realistically, it's not easy to accomplish that, and it usually isn't worth the effort. Your application will obviously not be able to take advantage of the plethora of Cocoa-specific APIs GNUstep hasn't implemented.
post #78 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Since the guy has already admitted that
1) it's fake
2) he doesn't have an Intel Mac so he had to recreate the About This Mac box's contents tot his best of his knowledge,
and since he even provides a PSD file for people to see how he's done it, I'm not sure what further merit this discussion has.

yeah, just corrected myself whilst you were posting.
post #79 of 145
Thank goodness it was a fake. Some of the concepts were cool, but the 'warp' hole effect really had me questioning Apple's sanity...

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #80 of 145
Quote:
Originally posted by a_greer
Give me Win 98 2nd edition over OS 8 any day any time.

Same here. MacOS might have looked better on the front end but the OS underneath was a mess of badly handled 68K interrupts that should have been junked a decade earlier.

I'd rather have had Windows NT though given the choice of MS operating systems. Even NT3.1. Both 98 and MacOS crashed far too often to be useful and multi-tasked like drunken slugs if you even attempted to run more than a couple of things at once. Useless as a developer.

I used to run MacOS on my Amiga as it was more stable than my SE/30 at the time, and that's saying something given that AmigaOS didn't have protected memory.

In the OS7/8 days, I was working in a company that did set-top boxes and most of the graphics guys ran on Macs while us programmers were using Windows NT. I've never seen people go for coffee so often because of hangs, reboots and crashes.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Mac OS X
AppleInsider › Forums › Software › Mac OS X › Apple's Leopard has its eye on Redmond