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Intel unleashes Mac-bound "Woodcrest" server chip

post #1 of 566
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Quote:
Originally posted by ecking
I think Apple needs to offer more options to consumers now that people are have their eye on Apple.

With all the stores, glamour, popularity, brand recognition, etc it seems kind of crazy to only offer the average consumer 4 products(technically 3 if you consider MBPs to be over the level of the average consumer).

They could make the entry mac pros a different colour or a different hue of aluminum or something, but something's gotta give, only 1 computer with a 3.5" HD? Come on Apple.

That's why I think that life will find a way.

Well there is that Home Media thing that Steve Jobs mentioned as "Loud, and Clear" that many are waiting for, and I am hoping for a convertible tablet.
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post #2 of 566
Any machine $2k or over has to be quad-core. Dell will sell Conroes at 2.67 GHz for $1500. A Conroe Mac Pro has to be in the $1500-2000 range.

A $2000 Woodcrest could look like this:

2 x 2.0 GHz Woodcrest ($660)
1 GB FB-DIMM (2x512) ($150)
some HDD 250 GBish ($100, whatever size that is 250-320)
Nvidia 7800GT ($300)
motherboard w/ at least 36 PCIe lanes and 8 RAM slots ($300)

I'd total a cost of $1650ish for the computer when you get it all together (case and sockets, etc), which is 17% margin for $2000. Upgrade that video card for $100, and toss a bigger HDD in there with the 2.33 GHz chips for the $2500-2700 model (slightly higher margin). Move to dual-3.0 in the $3500 model (lots of margin).
post #3 of 566
Intel Corporation on Monday formally took the wraps off its dual-core Xeon Processor 5100 series of high-volume server and workstation chips, previously codenamed "Woodcrest."

The world's largest chip maker said the new chips deliver up to 135 percent performance improvements and up to 40 percent reduction in energy consumption over previous Intel server products.

They're the first processors to take advantage of the company's new Core microarchitecture, a power-sensitive blueprint design that also includes several innovations to improve performance. Two other Core-based chips designed for desktops (Conroe) and notebooks (Merom) will make their debut in July and August, respectively.

Intel will initially ship the Xeon 5100 series at speeds of up to 3.0GHz, the company said, which will pack a faster 1333MHz front side bus and 4 megabytes of shared L2 cache.

The 65-nanometer chips are "drop-in compatible" as part of Intels "Bensley Platform," which introduces faster and more reliable memory technology called FB-DIMMs, Intel Virtualization Technology, Intel Active Server Manager and Intel I/O Acceleration Technology.

"Simply put, the Core microarchitecture is a technical marvel that is driving a new era of power efficiency without compromising on what can only be described as eye-popping dual-core 64-bit performance," said Pat Gelsinger, senior vice president and general manager of Intels Digital Enterprise Group.

The top-of-the-line 3.0GHz Xeon 5100 will ship with a thermal design point (TDP) of 80 watts with all others models rated at 65W. In the third quarter, Intel plans an even lower voltage version at 2.33 GHz with a TDP of just 40 watts.

The Santa Clara, Calif.-based company expects the Xeon 5100 family of processors to be the fastest-ramping product in its corporate history, and has set pricing for the chips from $209 to $851 in 1,000-unit quantities, depending on features.

Intel, which has been losing ground to rival AMD in the server market, hopes the new line of low-power chips will stop the bleeding and help it regain lost market share.

The chips are also likely contenders to power a revamped line of Apple Xserve computers and possibly find their way into the Mac maker's professional line of Mac Pro desktops, due out by August.

Intel had previously said that it will introduce a 3.2GHz version of Woodcrest later in the year.
post #4 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
...possibly find their way into the Mac maker's professional line of Mac Pro desktops, due out by next month.

I assume by "next month" you are actually referring to August, not July (as we're still in June). Considering that WWDC kicks off August 7, it seems unlikely that Apple will announce its new PowerMac successor prior to the big conference.
post #5 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
...due out by next month.

So, let the debate begin:

By saying Mac Pros are "due out by next month," does that mean that AppleInsider thinks Mac Pros are imminent (since it's the end of June, almost July), or does AI think we're already in July, and really mean August?
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post #6 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Dirk
So, let the debate begin:

By saying Mac Pros are "due out by next month," does that mean that AppleInsider thinks Mac Pros are imminent (since it's the end of June, almost July), or does AI think we're already in July, and really mean August?

By August, it was meant to read. Sorry.

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post #7 of 566
Thats not what I wanted!
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post #8 of 566
Apple would get more free press attention from two SEPARATE events:

* A press-invitation event in late July, introducing new pro Macs

* And then the Leopard event on August 7

Apple might well wait for August 7 for the pro Macs, but I see no reason to believe they have to.
post #9 of 566
Woohoo

The Woodcrest boxed CPU are in our system. No word and true availability yet but the pricing is akin to what we've all seen.

Intel's Reseller Site has info on Woodcrest as well. I expect that reviews will start to pop up now that the embargo is over or close to being over.
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post #10 of 566
3ghz by Summer at last!!

\
post #11 of 566
I noticed that Intel is coming out with a low voltage Woodcrest chip. That would be tasty in an iMac.
post #12 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by AppleInsider
The top-of-the-line 3.0GHz Xeon 5100 will ship with a thermal design point (TDP) of 80 watts with all others models rated at 65W. In the third quarter, Intel plans an even lower voltage version at 2.33 GHz with a TDP of just 40 watts.

The Santa Clara, Calif.-based company expects the Xeon 5100 family of processors to be the fastest-ramping product in its corporate history, and has set pricing for the chips from $209 to $851 in 1,000-unit quantities, depending on features.

Which CPU is the $209 model? Anyone got more detailed pricing?

If it's not the 2.33Ghz 40W model due later then it's faster and/or hotter or both. 65W is doable in an iMac so in theory we could be looking at 2.33/2.66Ghz Xeons costing less than the current Yonah in the iMac. I'll take one now.
post #13 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Which CPU is the $209 model? Anyone got more detailed pricing?

If it's not the 2.33Ghz 40W model due later then it's faster and/or hotter or both. 65W is doable in an iMac so in theory we could be looking at 2.33/2.66Ghz Xeons costing less than the current Yonah in the iMac. I'll take one now.

Check this: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2985

The low power 2,33 version will probably not be one of the cheapest chips. Expect it to be about $600.
post #14 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by aegisdesign
Which CPU is the $209 model? Anyone got more detailed pricing?

If it's not the 2.33Ghz 40W model due later then it's faster and/or hotter or both. 65W is doable in an iMac so in theory we could be looking at 2.33/2.66Ghz Xeons costing less than the current Yonah in the iMac. I'll take one now.

Xeon 5110 is the only proc at around that level.

Yonah's getting a price cut fairly soon.
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post #15 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I noticed that Intel is coming out with a low voltage Woodcrest chip. That would be tasty in an iMac.

No point to it. The performance of a low voltage Woodcrest would be below that of a regular Conroe, and possibly that of the Merom as well, and the only other advantage is that it supports SMP, which Conroe doesn't. So, unless Apple plans to have a dual socket iMac, which would be VERY nice, but unlikely, at least, at this time, there would be no reason to use it.
post #16 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Xeon 5110 is the only proc at around that level.

Yonah's getting a price cut fairly soon.

Do you mean, in addition to the one that supposedly happened already? Or do you mean shortly before, or after, Merom?
post #17 of 566
Timing of now, Conroe in July & Merom in August makes me think:

MacPro tomorrow

Updated iMacs/Mac minis in July

And that leaves Merom in August, along with WWDC

and the brand new Mac tablet family (8", 13.3"& 17")!

You heard it here!

;^p
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post #18 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Do you mean, in addition to the one that supposedly happened already? Or do you mean shortly before, or after, Merom?

It did actually happen, just look at e-tailers.

Anyway, has anyone seen the presence of the 2,33 GHz Core Duo chip Wikipedia says should have been available since yesterday?
post #19 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by Zandros
Check this: http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=2985


Rats. I wasn't counting on them releasing chips that slow lower down the price range. Is there any market at all for a 1.6Ghz Xeon ?

Oh well, back to waiting for Conroe then I guess for the iMac.

I wonder what Apple will do with the MacPro though? Quad Woodcrest across the range with 2.33Ghz on the low end? Or will they put Conroe in the low end?

Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The performance of a low voltage Woodcrest would be below that of a regular Conroe, and possibly that of the Merom as well, and the only other advantage is that it supports SMP, which Conroe doesn't.

The other advantages being the huge 4MB L2 cache, FB-DIMMS and faster FSB so I'd hope Woodcrest would soundly beat Conroe and Merom.
post #20 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Do you mean, in addition to the one that supposedly happened already? Or do you mean shortly before, or after, Merom?

Crappola. I need to see how I can check pricing history of the Yonah chips to see how our costs have fluctuated. Used to be simple in our old system but we have a new shiny tool for order entry/crm

Quote:
The other advantages being the huge 4MB L2 cache, FB-DIMMS and faster FSB so I'd hope Woodcrest would soundly beat Conroe and Merom.

Conroe's cache is 4MB so I'd expect Woodcrest to flex it's muscle on memory bandwidth limited applications.

Low voltage stuff runs a bit slower..it'll be interesting to see what the performance hit is.
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post #21 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by hmurchison
Woohoo

The Woodcrest boxed CPU are in our system. No word and true availability yet but the pricing is akin to what we've all seen.

Intel's Reseller Site has info on Woodcrest as well. I expect that reviews will start to pop up now that the embargo is over or close to being over.

Hang on a minute. Murch works at an Apple reseller, doesn't he?

If I understand that correctly, he's saying that the Mac Pros are in the system now?

If they show up in the computer already, Apple's not going to wait a month to release them publicly.
They know it would only be a matter of time before there's a leak.
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post #22 of 566
Frank777

We sell both platforms and thus no Apple stuff but just the bare boxed Woodcrest are in the system. Maybe I'll actually get an ETA on when they "hope" to be delivered.

No new Macs in the system yet \
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post #23 of 566
Personally I don't care whether they slap Conroes or Woodcrests into the Mac Pro line. I just want to see a better price tier in place that offers more reasonable pricing, preferably starting at the $1,499 price point. If Apple keeps raising the entry barrier on Pro systems as they have been they're going to insure the Mac Pro (like the PowerMac) remains a niche product line.

Let's see some nicely configured, modestly priced, mainstream desktops.
post #24 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by MacRonin
Timing of now, Conroe in July & Merom in August makes me think:

MacPro tomorrow

Updated iMacs/Mac minis in July

And that leaves Merom in August, along with WWDC

and the brand new Mac tablet family (8", 13.3"& 17")!

You heard it here!

;^p

Just quoting myself since the posts seem all fracked up right now
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post #25 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by Foo Fighter
Personally I don't care whether they slap Conroes or Woodcrests into the Mac Pro line. I just want to see a better price tier in place that offers more reasonable pricing, preferably starting at the $1,499 price point. If Apple keeps raising the entry barrier on Pro systems as they have been they're going to insure the Mac Pro (like the PowerMac) remains a niche product line.

Let's see some nicely configured, modestly priced, mainstream desktops.

If they put Conroe chips in the Mac Pros, Apple will have no choice but to drop to $1,499 for an entry-level Pro tower. If they don't nobody's ever going to buy a Mac Pro, they'll all buy the 17" iMacs and a larger stand-alone screen to go with it.
post #26 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by Foo Fighter
Personally I don't care whether they slap Conroes or Woodcrests into the Mac Pro line. I just want to see a better price tier in place that offers more reasonable pricing, preferably starting at the $1,499 price point. If Apple keeps raising the entry barrier on Pro systems as they have been they're going to insure the Mac Pro (like the PowerMac) remains a niche product line.

Let's see some nicely configured, modestly priced, mainstream desktops.

They need to do both. Neither way alone is acceptable for most users.

There is hope that without water cooling, they can drop the price, or at least make up for the more expensive (than the G5) cpu's.
post #27 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
They need to do both. Neither way alone is acceptable for most users.

There is hope that without water cooling, they can drop the price, or at least make up for the more expensive (than the G5) cpu's.

I thought the water cooling system was only done on the most expensive Powermac. The cost of water cooling shouldn't affect the price of the cheaper systems because they don't use it on those systems.

I do think that there needs to be a Mac tower in the $1499 bracket but I wonder what they would do to make sure it's worth buying compared to an iMac but on the other hand, not canibalize their more expensive towers, which might have been a bigger factor. When the $1499 G5 was available, it didn't have a whole lot going for it in view of an iMac which includes a screen for not much more.
post #28 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
I thought the water cooling system was only done on the most expensive Powermac. The cost of water cooling shouldn't affect the price of the cheaper systems because they don't use it on those systems.

I do think that there needs to be a Mac tower in the $1499 bracket but I wonder what they would do to make sure it's worth buying compared to an iMac but on the other hand, not canibalize their more expensive towers, which might have been a bigger factor. When the $1499 G5 was available, it didn't have a whole lot going for it in view of an iMac which includes a screen for not much more.

I think Apple needs to offer more options to consumers now that people are have their eye on Apple.

With all the stores, glamour, popularity, brand recognition, etc it seems kind of crazy to only offer the average consumer 4 products(technically 3 if you consider MBPs to be over the level of the average consumer).

They could make the entry mac pros a different colour or a different hue of aluminum or something, but something's gotta give, only 1 computer with a 3.5" HD? Come on Apple.

That's why I think that life will find a way.
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post #29 of 566
Yup, we're back to the "nice reasonable Conroe or lower-ghz Woodcrest tower" in the $1500-2500 range. Because iMac is nice but one wants more power without having to settle for an all-in-one computer.

Classic desire now from a lot of people. I suspect the MacPros will still be aimed at the higher end. Apple just does not want to do the "affordable Mac midi-tower"
post #30 of 566
Originally posted by melgross
... a dual socket iMac, which would be VERY nice...



Way overkill, dude
post #31 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by JeffDM
I thought the water cooling system was only done on the most expensive Powermac. The cost of water cooling shouldn't affect the price of the cheaper systems because they don't use it on those systems.

I do think that there needs to be a Mac tower in the $1499 bracket but I wonder what they would do to make sure it's worth buying compared to an iMac but on the other hand, not canibalize their more expensive towers, which might have been a bigger factor. When the $1499 G5 was available, it didn't have a whole lot going for it in view of an iMac which includes a screen for not much more.


When they went to water cooling all of the two chip systems used it. I don't remember if all of the latter machines with the dual core chips did though.

I don't understand why people think that a $1,500 MacPro will cannibalize the iMac. These are very different machines, for very different audiences. While it's true that SOME people might switch from one to the other, it's a minor problem. Most people who want an iMac want it because it is what it is. They don't want a tower. They don't want a Mini either, which would be the closest substitute. And most people who buy a tower buy that because of what IT is. They don't want an iMac.

Even if the tower was priced at $1,250, it wouldn't compete except on a minor plain. The total cost would still be considerably more than the 20" iMac. The inconvenience to most people would remain, as would the much greater room that is required.

Insofar as it canibalizing their more expensive towers goes, people who need, and want them, still will. But, people who couldn't find the funds for one will now be able to.
post #32 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Originally posted by melgross
... a dual socket iMac, which would be VERY nice...



Way overkill, dude

It wasn't serious.
post #33 of 566
Maybe they'll put Conroes in the Mac Pros and save the woodcrests for the Mac Pro Pros!
post #34 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
It wasn't serious.

I bet in two years iMacs will have woodcrest chips in them.
post #35 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
I bet in two years iMacs will have woodcrest chips in them.

In two years there won't be any Woodcrest. Intel will move on to the next microarchitecture as they have announced to do every two years ...
post #36 of 566
Quote:
Originally posted by mwswami
In two years there won't be any Woodcrest. Intel will move on to the next microarchitecture as they have announced to do every two years ...

There will be woodcrest in two years, it just will be cheap enough to go in iMac. The developement costs are such that I doubt Intel will just say goodbye to woodcrest. It will just move down the food chain.
post #37 of 566
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
There will be woodcrest in two years, it just will be cheap enough to go in iMac. The developement costs are such that I doubt Intel will just say goodbye to woodcrest. It will just move down the food chain.

In two years woodcrest will be slow processor, and apple probably wont be using them anymore.
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post #38 of 566
A second drive bay would be nice so we can have:
1 - card reader
2 - second CD/DVD drive
3 - Blue-Ray/HD-DVD drive (when they come out)
post #39 of 566
What's holding up the Mac Pros? They should be out right now, all the other PC manufacturers have their Woodcrest workstations out.
post #40 of 566
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
What's holding up the Mac Pros? They should be out right now, all the other PC manufacturers have their Woodcrest workstations out.

Do you not read these forums, or rember the things that you have discussed in here in the past month? You know the answer.

And actually no one has a woodcrest shipping that I am aware of. Other than intel itself.
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