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Woodcrest to power Apple's next-gen Mac Pro desktops - Page 6

post #201 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski


Additionally, R&D is probably confined to the case and motherboard, because the RAM, HDD, video card, and chips are standard

The video cards / other plug cards may need a efi bios
post #202 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by PB


Although indeed Junkyard Dog made in the past claims like that (and more, for those who still remember ), I think it was someone else that started this really amusing AI tradition, but I forgot which one.

No, I think JDawg is the original. I paid homage to him years ago by creating this thread...
a flash back to happier times

Best part is he played along in the thread.
When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
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When they said "Think Different", I ran with it.
Reply
post #203 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg

$1799. 2.33 GHz dual Xeon Woodies.


$2199. 2.66 GHz dual Xeon Woodies.


$2799. 3.0 GHz dual Xeon Woodies.

Dream on, Alice.


oh god please oh jesus fucking christ please don't be lying to us oh god oh god oh god
post #204 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe_the_dragon
The video cards / other plug cards may need a efi bios

Which, spread over 100,000 machines will add what, $1 to the price? I mean, could it honestly take more than a few hundred programming hours? I don't know that much about low-level programming, but there's no endian issue, and I thought EFI was designed to be easy to write for? Also, Apple could just extend the CSM in the EFI, and have no extra work be required, beyond drivers.
post #205 of 226
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Joe_the_dragon
The video cards / other plug cards may need a efi bios



Hmm.. They sorted it out for the ATI Mobility X1600 and X1600 normal. So maybe that's why they're sticking to ATI... They'll be keeping the options limited to certain X1800s in stock config and certain X1900s in the built-to-order config. So for Apple's part, they should have the Mac OS X drivers/ ATI firmware updates/ whatever ready to go for the Mac Pro.

I guess other manufacturers of plug in cards and so on will need to update their drivers/ firmware for cards to go in the Mac Pro, eg. the PCIExpress FibreChannel card.
post #206 of 226
Warning to nVidia Quadro fans: If Apple is saving R&D costs by sticking to ATI, then your looking at switching over to FireGL...?
post #207 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Which, spread over 100,000 machines will add what, $1 to the price? I mean, could it honestly take more than a few hundred programming hours? I don't know that much about low-level programming, but there's no endian issue, and I thought EFI was designed to be easy to write for? Also, Apple could just extend the CSM in the EFI, and have no extra work be required, beyond drivers.

the card may need a bigger bios chip to fit EFI in there.
post #208 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by sunilraman
Warning to nVidia Quadro fans: If Apple is saving R&D costs by sticking to ATI, then your looking at switching over to FireGL...?

Who the christ said they were, it's their fucking flagship computer, I'll be ashamed if they don't offer the full product lines of both manufacturers.
post #209 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Joe_the_dragon
the card may need a bigger bios chip to fit EFI in there.

Strikes me as unlikely. The X1600s don't have it, AFAIK. This isn't loading a 200MB EFI onto there, I don't think. It's just rewriting a few calls so they work with EFI. But in theory, if you have a full CSM (which XoM will eventually provide, and Boot Camp's firmware update partially provides), there shouldn't be much card-side work, unless I misunderstand it.
post #210 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
Who the christ said they were, it's their fucking flagship computer, I'll be ashamed if they don't offer the full product lines of both manufacturers.

They never have offered both for 3D. The QuadroFX was the only option, and I'd prefer they kept it that way if it were only to be one of the two. Nvidia is way ahead of ATI right now ayway.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #211 of 226
[QUOTE]Originally posted by onlooker
They never have offered both for 3D. The QuadroFX was the only option, and I'd prefer they kept it that way if it were only to be one of the two. Nvidia is way ahead of ATI right now ayway.



Exactly, Placebo. Look at the PowerMacG5 - you've got ONLY NVIDIA OPTIONS...!!

I'm just warning you all. If Apple decides to go ALL-ATI you are looking at FireGL on the highest end option for Mac Pro.

Will they do it? I don't know. Just warning you all.
post #212 of 226
[QUOTE]Originally posted by onlooker
Nvidia is way ahead of ATI right now ayway.


The X1600 is not bad, the X1900 top ends are neck-and-neck with 7900GTXs. If you're looking for good value for money and performance the 7600GTs and 7900GTs are looking solid compared to ATI's X1800 options - I think maybe that's where nVidia has the edge.

If you're talking Quadro vs. FireGL, then I have no idea about that side of things. Are you referring more towards Quadro vs. FireGL?
post #213 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
Strikes me as unlikely. The X1600s don't have it, AFAIK. This isn't loading a 200MB EFI onto there, I don't think.

200 MB? Yikes, what makes you think the firmware is that huge? You're probably confusing it with the EFI partition.
post #214 of 226
[QUOTE]Originally posted by sunilraman
Quote:
Originally posted by onlooker
Nvidia is way ahead of ATI right now ayway.


The X1600 is not bad, the X1900 top ends are neck-and-neck with 7900GTXs. If you're looking for good value for money and performance the 7600GTs and 7900GTs are looking solid compared to ATI's X1800 options - I think maybe that's where nVidia has the edge.

If you're talking Quadro vs. FireGL, then I have no idea about that side of things. Are you referring more towards Quadro vs. FireGL?

Yes I am. Quadros kill GL's, and your not including the SLI on a single card option either. If Apple doesn't have 2 - 16x PCI-E slots so a user could install real SLI if they wanted it they will probably try to at least have the Nvidia XFX GeForce 7950 GX2 available as an option. And ATI has nothing that can roll with that.
onlooker
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post #215 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
200 MB? Yikes, what makes you think the firmware is that huge? You're probably confusing it with the EFI partition.

That's my point. I said it wasn't 200MB. I'd be suprised if EFI firmware is that much larger than BIOS firmware. It's just a matter of BIOS-reflashing I think. And that shouldn't raise the price that much. Whether Apple screws us on it is another matter though.
post #216 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
It's just a matter of BIOS-reflashing I think.

Right, but the firmware has to exist/be written to begin with. I'm not sure ATi and/or nVidia are willing to do that, and Apple might not have the specs to. (They do for Mobility Radeons because those are explicitly OEM-only.)
post #217 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
Right, but the firmware has to exist/be written to begin with. I'm not sure ATi and/or nVidia are willing to do that, and Apple might not have the specs to. (They do for Mobility Radeons because those are explicitly OEM-only.)

I know, they have to rewrite the firmware, and that's a pain, but it's a lot smaller of a pain spread out over 250,000 cards. Whereas someone suggested gaving to add another, larger, flash chip
post #218 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
That's my point. I said it wasn't 200MB. I'd be suprised if EFI firmware is that much larger than BIOS firmware. It's just a matter of BIOS-reflashing I think. And that shouldn't raise the price that much. Whether Apple screws us on it is another matter though.

The cards may need BIOS / EFI fimrware.
Is apple waiting for more EFI cards before comeing out with a INTEL mac with slots?
post #219 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
I know, they have to rewrite the firmware, and that's a pain, but it's a lot smaller of a pain spread out over 250,000 cards. Whereas someone suggested gaving to add another, larger, flash chip

Nvidia doesn't write Apple drivers Apple does. Just like everyone Apple uses Nvidia source code for their nvidia drivers, and ATI writes their own, so Apple probably has had Nvidia's cards running for some time.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #220 of 226
Hey,

Has anybody been able to see whether the BootCamp graphics drivers are standard Windows XP drivers or something custom? Or been able to install beta drivers / ATI Catalyst?
post #221 of 226
I'm fairly sure there were several reports that:
1) you cannot install generic ATi display drivers (you'll get anything ranging from a blue screen to VGA display legacy mode)
2) Apple's driver's, while allowing you to use the ATi catalyst software, are slightly different in their version numbers.

I can't confirm, mostly because I neither want to reboot right now nor hose my system.
post #222 of 226
That's good on the second point, because hopefully they'll have Nview/Forceware or whatever they're calling it now for the Mac Pros for antialiasing overrides etc etc in Windows games and apps.
post #223 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Chucker
I'm fairly sure there were several reports that:
1) you cannot install generic ATi display drivers (you'll get anything ranging from a blue screen to VGA display legacy mode)
2) Apple's driver's, while allowing you to use the ATi catalyst software, are slightly different in their version numbers.

I can't confirm, mostly because I neither want to reboot right now nor hose my system.

I seem to remember that from XoM - Boot Camp's drivers don't work in their version of a Windows on Mac hack, and regular drivers don't work with that X1600.

HOWEVER - the 965 integrated graphics in the Mac Mini work with someone else's standard drivers (HP laptop's, if memory serves)
post #224 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by ZachPruckowski
I seem to remember that from XoM - Boot Camp's drivers don't work in their version of a Windows on Mac hack, and regular drivers don't work with that X1600.

The first part seems pretty logical just because so many things were wierd about XP On Mac. So I wouldn't trust it to be necessarily indicative.

Second part though could mean something.

But still, didn't people successfully use Windows-based overclocking utilities to clock their cards back up to normal speed? Doesn't this sort of say that the card is semi-normal?
post #225 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
But still, didn't people successfully use Windows-based overclocking utilities to clock their cards back up to normal speed? Doesn't this sort of say that the card is semi-normal?

On Boot Camp, with Apple's drivers. Apple's drivers ship with ATi's Catalyst software, giving you all the typical options you'd expect, and also enabling third-party ATi overclocking tools to interface with the card. The firmware interaction is only done by the drivers, not by the overclocking tools.
post #226 of 226
Quote:
Originally posted by Placebo
But still, didn't people successfully use Windows-based overclocking utilities to clock their cards back up to normal speed? Doesn't this sort of say that the card is semi-normal?

True - ATI tools or whatever. but that is with Boot Camp drivers. I'm not saying that the card isn't 95% identical, it's the 5% that's killer here.

Also, as to the second point - that was also under XOM. I haven't heard of anyone replacing the BC drivers with generic ones. Why would anyone have thought to? I'd try it, if I had my Mac Pro already...
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