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All old Israel/Lebanon threads merged in here - Page 7  

post #241 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by running with scissors
in a time of war it is quite acceptable. in israel eyes, hezbollah's recent actions and lebanon's continued inaction was an act of war.

Kidnaping 2 soldiers? Israel just got bated. this is exactly what lebanon/iran and the rest of the middle east wanted.
post #242 of 882
Syria,Iran,Palestine all want to have a war with Israel no one can deny it. I say get over with, winner takes all.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #243 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
No, Sammi. The anti-semitism comes from claims that people are oppressed by the international jewry, which is what you are saying here isn't it?

No it is not, and you damn well know it. It is this attitude which prevents any meaningful dialog at any level, all the way from the international stage to an insignificant corner of the internet, like here. Maintaining this inability to communicate is what keeps unrest going, and we all who makes prodigious amounts of money from war and killing.

Quote:
Speaking out is fine.

Thats half the problem. It should be, but it is not OK. You know as well as I do, that any criticism of Israel's policies is automatically equated with "anti-semitism", which in turn brings up the specter of being accused of being a "racist"/ "holocaust denier". That's why people daren't speak out. You know it as well I as I do.

Quote:
Claiming that you cannot speak out because of some international pressure from jewish groups is complete bullshit and is the fundamental basis for anti-semitism. Has been, will always be.

Yes, it it bullshit, and I neither said, nor implied anything remotely resembling that. This is your tactic to falsely paint me as as an anti-semitic person, or "conspiracy theorist" which ties in with the point above; many people are scared of criticizing Israel's policies because they know that their line of thought will be twisted in the above fashion, and the mainstream automatically jerks its knees by "interpreting" at face value.

Israel can attack, without reason, any target on the planet, and KNOW THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD SUPPORT THAT ACTION, BY DEFAULT There is the problem.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #244 of 882
As fas as the United States Government is concerned:

How Many Palestinian Lives Equal One Israeli Life?

Can anyone work this out?

(Please calculate your answers to within two places of decimals).
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #245 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
As fas as the United States Government is concerned:

How Many Palestinian Lives Equal One Israeli Life?

Can anyone work this out?

(Please calculate your answers to within two places of decimals).

How many Israli soldiers lives will be spent taking revenge for the two kidnappings? So far it is over 7 Israeli soldiers dead.

I don't think that you can do simple math like that to figure things out. Israel will be much better off with Hizbolah dead and gone, and that is worth probably several thousand soldiers and tens of thousands of civilians dead.

I think that the whole situation will be better off when this is done. The US is asking that "Syria be brought to account" - which I think means a potential US invasion. Israel will re-capture the buffer area inside Lebanon because Hizbolah did not disengage after Israel withdrew (and Kebbah farms is a bullshit reason).

Syria will be merged with Sunni central Iraq (and the Kurdish part of Syria merged with Kurdish iraq). The other two parts of Iraq will be seperate countries with a huge permainant US military base in Kurdistan.

A new palistinian homeland needs to be carved out somewhere, maybe from the disemboweled Syria. The major Muslum temples (golden dome, the ugly one with green neon) moved from Jerusalem to that new homeland.
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #246 of 882
Winner takes it all? What "all"?
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #247 of 882
Sammi, keep on shoveling it.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #248 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by the cool gut
Kidnaping 2 soldiers? Israel just got bated. this is exactly what lebanon/iran and the rest of the middle east wanted.

wars have started over less. besides this has been brewing long before these last incidents.
post #249 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
[B]How many Israli soldiers lives will be spent taking revenge for the two kidnappings? So far it is over 7 Israeli soldiers dead.

The point being: Is any side capable of stopping the bloodshed? It's the chicken and egg deal: what comes first? Palestinians attack and Israel reacts, or Israel attacks and Palestinians react? Or both?

As far as the US government is concerned, with its none-too-subtle preference for the Jewish state (which barely masks its abject hatred for all things and people Palestinian), the answer is obvious.

And when it is US defense contractors, closely allied with successive US administrations (most especially the current one), that stands to earn untold $billions from this and other related conflicts, the answer is glaringly obvious.

The United States (government) is nominally on the side of all things right, decent, and civilized/democratic. When the reality is 180º in opposition to this notion, we go into mass collective denial.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #250 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
[B]Sammi, keep on shoveling it.

I suggest you post on yahoo "discussions".
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #251 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
The point being: Is any side capable of stopping the bloodshed? It's the chicken and egg deal: what comes first? Palestinians attack and Israel reacts, or Israel attacks and Palestinians react? Or both?

As far as the US government is concerned, with its none-too-subtle preference for the Jewish state (which barely masks its abject hatred for all things and people Palestinian), the answer is obvious.

And when it is US defense contractors, closely allied with successive US administrations (most especially the current one), that stands to earn untold $billions from this and other related conflicts, the answer is glaringly obvious.

The United States (government) is nominally on the side of all things right, decent, and civilized/democratic. When the reality is 180º in opposition to this notion, we go into mass collective denial.

good and evil is too simplistic for this situation. Almost all of our converstaions about world politics boil down to long-term benefit vs avoid the death of any individual at all cost.

Sometime you have to kill a few thousand people now to prevent a few hundred thousand people from dying in the future.

Individual life and liberty is a the responsibility of the state to ensure, but it is not the top priority. Social stability, general safety, and economic well-being are the top priorities. Read Macievelli, and you can predict Israel's reactions - be nice until they step over the line, and then react with overwealming and deadly force.
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #252 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by Immanuel Goldstein
Yes, when and where it suits them (and not when it doesn't).

An I say it seems to suit some countries a whole lot more than others.

Quote:
As said previously: to be effective, any law should always have the ability to use force, even if it doesn't have to use it in the end. International law hasn't.

It has when the international community wants it to. In some places, where only 50 years ago slaugthered each other, this seems to be working.

Quote:
The UN doesn't take away sovereignity from states, it doesn't have sovereignity over states.

In certain cases, the UN can grant it's members the right, by international law, to intervene against countires, and take away their soverignity for a period.

Quote:
Two examples: the unileateral withdrawal from Lebanon, the evacuation of the Gaza settlers.

Since both where miserable failures, they hardly qualify as good examples of Realpolitik. They are actually better examples of Israel comming a bit closer to complying with international law.

Quote:
I responded to your statemement of fact earlier.

With little good evidence.

Quote:
And those who cannot help themsleves get no help from those international regualtions, which is why when faced with threats to their national security or interests, states might disregard those regulations.

And this is a general rule? Was East Timor an exeption then?

Quote:
Your claim that as a general rule, settlements were built on stolen land is still unsubstantiated, and so it doesn't stand.

before 1947:
Jews mainly purchased land from absentee Turkish landlords, or bought "state" land from various "officials". The land was sold without the people living on it and cultivating it knew it was happening. Bribery was often needed. Now this might have been within the laws of the time. Colonized people have always been fucked over that way. Same thing happend here in Norway. So at a point in time Norway nationalized many of the resources bought up by foreigners.

After 1947:
There are tons of examples of displacement of palestinians within the newly conqured territories. (going from controlling 7% to 78% of the land.) What do You think? All those refugees left by free will?

But this is history, and quite unreversable. At best, compensation should be paid for loss of land. The rest of the land, occupied in 67 is more important to discuss. So;

Late 70; The new settlement period:
As I said the International Criminal Court has ruled on this, and deemed it illegal. 400 000 israeli settlers (excluding east jerusalem) are living on the west bank are there illegally. The rules are clear, they are in the Geneva Convention.

Quote:
Comapring the communism of the nineteen-eighties to the then apartheid, one notices that the USSR was killing more than a million Afghans in that decade and displacing some five millions of them, while South Africa was not; and that while there were Africans migrating to South Africa from neighbouring countries (voting with their feet) people in the Soviet bloc were dreaming of getting out of there, so I say communism was worse.

Like I said; pestilence or colera. As an ideology, I still think Apartheid is worse.

Quote:
So let them recognise Israel and negociate with it now. Yet they don't.

That Saudi Prince did in 2002, This time Israel refused to negotiate.


Quote:
And Sudan can opt out, and France, and every country if it so chooses, and not because of any US favours.

Sudan will face international action in the comming months. What about france?


Quote:
For that to change, international law would have to change, so countries see as an advantage, not a hindrance, to their national security and interests, and so opting-out is not allowed to no none.

I agree with this. But the laws do change. It is a constant process.


Quote:
Quote:
And genocides are wrong because? </ Jon Stewart Voice>

Quote:
Because I said so.

Right.


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Which in deeds equals, well, nothing.

Which is the base of the legality of your country.

Quote:
I was under the impression the basis of modern international law was the law of the sea, the nineteenth century hunt against pirates and the maritime slave-trade and all that
My bad.

Well, yes and no. It has evolved. Especially trough Nuremberg. Although plundering is still going on...

Quote:
Lucky are those who have nations-states (or sometimes, benevolent foreign states eager to help) to protect them because international law can't, and so it won't.

Yup, And thus, some use this to deprive others of the same privileges.

International law is the only framwork on which we can build real coexistence, It's full of flaws (like any set of laws), but without it genocides are bound to be repeated. It's learning from history. It could go either way ofcourse. If international law (and the UN) doesn't evolve, then we are back to the thirties. god luck!

and, once more, why are geoncides wrong?
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #253 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
The point being: Is any side capable of stopping the bloodshed? It's the chicken and egg deal: what comes first? Palestinians attack and Israel reacts, or Israel attacks and Palestinians react? Or both?

Was Israel attacking Lebanon before the kidnapping?

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
post #254 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by BR
Was Israel attacking Lebanon before the kidnapping? [/B]

There have been ongoing crossborder clashes between Israel and Hezbollah guerillas for years/decades. The same thing applies in this case: who is the aggressor, and who is the responder? The answer is both.

Unfortunately: As far as US government goes, though, the answer is always that Israel is in the right, no matter what she does. That includes flouting dozens of U.N. Security Council Resolutions over the years, carrying out massacres, spying in the US, even conducting terrorist attacks against US and UK interests. The Israelis have a blank check to do whatever they want knowing that they have unconditional US/(UK) support, and in theory (if they could keep it a secret), it would include rounding up all Palestinians into concentration camps and gassing them to death.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #255 of 882
Hezbollah started this one by lobbing rockets, then grabbing and killing solders after digging a tunnel. Israel has a right to kick ass.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #256 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
I suggest you post on yahoo "discussions".

Almost everything you said in your post is patently false.

I suggest you go out and have discussions with real people and stop wasting your time here.

If you feel like your voice is being suppressed speak louder.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #257 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by Aurora
Hezbollah started this one by lobbing rockets, then grabbing and killing solders after digging a tunnel. Israel has a right to kick ass.

If Arabs had a MEMRI the translation would be: Israel has a right to massacre innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the problem.

We need to take away that right. Until then there will always be an Hezbollah.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #258 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Almost everything you said in your post is patently false.

Difficult to see what exactly. It all seems pretty spot-on to me.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #259 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
[B]Almost everything you said in your post is patently false.

I suggest you go out and have discussions with real people and stop wasting your time here.

If you feel like your voice is being suppressed speak louder.

If you can argue these points please go ahead. At least that would be a constructive dialog.

All you have done, by the "keep shoveling it" slur, is the equivalent of name calling. This leads me to the possibilty that you might even agree with me, but don't want to admit.

That is why I suggested: "go to the Yahoo discussion boards, because the junior school name-calling method seems to be the default in there.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #260 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Winner takes it all? What "all"?

Everyone looses in war, just look at where all those mideast countrys would be without Oil, they have been fighting their jihad wars for centuries,Heck Iran and Iraq was just going at it 20 yrs ago. Islam, tolerance and love a peaceful religion All religions are man made crap. Thats my view but thats just me.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
VOTE OUT ALL INCUMBENTS! Its the only way we can clean up Congress.
post #261 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
No it is not, and you damn well know it.

Do I really?

Quote:
It is this attitude which prevents any meaningful dialog at any level, all the way from the international stage to an insignificant corner of the internet, like here. Maintaining this inability to communicate is what keeps unrest going, and we all who makes prodigious amounts of money from war and killing.

Who? The Jews? I am not really sure what you are refering to here. What attitude prevents meaningful dialogue? The attitude that people cite some world-wide conspiracy to support all things Israel (which is laughable, since a large fraction of the world either stays out of the issue all together, or is actively against all things Israel)? Perhaps you can then explain the source of this conspiracy. Is it a cabal of backroom crooked nose Jews? Or perhaps some nefarious Uber-Jew that pulls the strings?

Regardless, such complaints don't solve the issue at hand, speaking louder with intellectually rigorous rationals gets further than complaining that there is some conspiracy against your position and only your position.


Quote:

Thats half the problem. It should be, but it is not OK. You know as well as I do, that any criticism of Israel's policies is automatically equated with "anti-semitism", which in turn brings up the specter of being accused of being a "racist"/ "holocaust denier". That's why people daren't speak out. You know it as well I as I do.

Again, do I really? I have never in my life been called racist, anti-semitic or a holocaust denier, and yet remarkably enough during my entire adult life I have been quite critical of Israel's actions, notably in regard to its and Palestinian failures to even properly broach the subject of long term peace. You see, perhaps the reason why I haven't been called anti-semitic etc is because I don't bring religion into the debate. Yet almost every other person I have ever talked to on this subject does. 'The Jews' etc etc etc. When you parse the actions of a state with the cutural group that dominates its lands, you have to make leaps that are uniformly critical of that cultural group and that is not only wrong, it is in fact racist. It would be like deriding Christians for their actions in Iraq and Camp X-ray. It is retarded, and it is unfortunately what happens.


Quote:
Yes, it it bullshit, and I neither said, nor implied anything remotely resembling that. This is your tactic to falsely paint me as as an anti-semitic person, or "conspiracy theorist" which ties in with the point above; many people are scared of criticizing Israel's policies because they know that their line of thought will be twisted in the above fashion, and the mainstream automatically jerks its knees by "interpreting" at face value.

You are a conspiracy theorist, sammi. Look at all of your posts on this forum from the get go. They are loony, in fact they are mostly far far left of loony. If you don't accept that fact about your AI caricature, then I can't even begin to discuss real world issues with you. I was merely pointing out that many people in fact do think that the world is run by jews, and these sentiments whether connected with this thought or not are what continues to drive these "carte blanche" theories about Israel. Isn't it easier to believe that nations continue to support their allies until something particularly egregious occurs, like say the invation of a dictatorship on trumpted up theories of WMDs aimed at coastal cities? Or perhaps the shear volume of facts and incidents support one side over the other? Could it also be that one side acts like a state, and the other like a band of holligans with rockets and explosive vests?

Quote:

Israel can attack, without reason, any target on the planet, and KNOW THAT THE UNITED STATES WOULD SUPPORT THAT ACTION, BY DEFAULT There is the problem.

I assure you that Israel cannot attack any target on the planet without reason. I can also assure that they have never attacked any target without reason. Israel isn't lashing out into the night with a knife; niether for that matter are the enemies of Israel.

Wouldn't it be a far better assumption that the Hezbollah guerillas knew exactly what the response of israel was going to be, seeing as it occured exactly like that two weeks prior in gaza? Either you assume that or you assume that the Lebanese are idiots. You know where I stand.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #262 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
If Arabs had a MEMRI the translation would be: Israel has a right to massacre innocent civilians who have nothing to do with the problem.

We need to take away that right. Until then there will always be an Hezbollah.

As long as there are jews left alive in Israel, there will be a Hezbollah.
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post #263 of 882
What would happend if the US decided to pull all support for Israel? Would there be a sudden swarm on them? I mean thats what we are really talking about here right?

How far can the surrounding countries push without the US stepping in.

I say let them handle it themselves. I for one am tired of the whole damn thing.
post #264 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by running with scissors
wars have started over less. besides this has been brewing long before these last incidents.

The kidnapping of Helen of Troy caused the sinking of a thousand ships, and the destruction of a whole city.
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post #265 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by trailmaster308
What would happend if the US decided to pull all support for Israel? Would there be a sudden swarm on them? I mean thats what we are really talking about here right?

FFS - Israel has the third largest army in the world and is armed to the teeth with nukes. What the hell does America have to do with it anyway?
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #266 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
FFS - Israel has the third largest army in the world and is armed to the teeth with nukes. What the hell does America have to do with it anyway?

Where did they get the nukes?
post #267 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
I assure you that Israel cannot attack any target on the planet without reason. I can also assure that they have never attacked any target without reason. Israel isn't lashing out into the night with a knife; niether for that matter are the enemies of Israel.

BS.

India was attacked a few days back with a terrorist bomb. If because some terror cells had Pakistan connections they had flown into Pakistani airspace blowing away civilians and strafing villages then the world would be united in condemnation and you know it.

They didn't even think of it because they are civilized. You praise 'civilization' and 'values' in the light of terror attacks against the west (we are not like them and must not sink to their level - which is true) but Israel is a mad-dog now and is dragging us all to destruction. And people defend it.

This is what Sammi Jo was talking about and your lack of condemnation of Israel is proof she is right.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #268 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Where did they get the nukes?

Good question.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #269 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
FFS - Israel has the third largest army in the world and is armed to the teeth with nukes. What the hell does America have to do with it anyway?

Israel is #28 by number of troops (186,500 full time, 1,413,403 including reserves).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._active_troops

Isreal is #15 by expenditures ($9.6 billion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

But I would say that they are probably #3 by the subjective "ass kickingness" factor.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #270 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Israel is #28 by number of troops (186,500 full time, 1,413,403 including reserves).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._active_troops

Isreal is #15 by expenditures ($9.6 billion).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures

But I would say that they are probably #3 by the subjective "ass kickingness" factor.

Point is that they can look after themselves as well as anyone on the planet.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #271 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by trailmaster308
Where did they get the nukes?

France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_expenditures
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #272 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
BS.

India was attacked a few days back with a terrorist bomb. If because some terror cells had Pakistan connections they had flown into Pakistani airspace blowing away civilians and strafing villages then the world would be united in condemnation and you know it.

They didn't even think of it because they are civilized. You praise 'civilization' and 'values' in the light of terror attacks against the west (we are not like them and must not sink to their level - which is true) but Israel is a mad-dog now and is dragging us all to destruction. And people defend it.

This is what Sammi Jo was talking about and your lack of condemnation of Israel is proof she is right.

Prove that Israel is doing anything to intentionally target civilians, and then we will talk. Until then, you are creating a straw man.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #273 of 882
US just vetoed another UN resolution now. One that was very balanced and could well have solved the problem.

What exactly does Israel have on the US?

Edit: Iran's President just warned ISrael that an attack on Syria would be an attack on the Islamic World and Iran would respond in an extreme fashion.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #274 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
US just vetoed another UN resolution now. One that was very balanced and could well have solved the problem.

What exactly does Israel have on the US?

I actually think that the US created the Israel we know today as a part of its Cold War strategy and it's current state has nothing to do with a little black haired man with a strange moustache...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #275 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Prove that Israel is doing anything to intentionally target civilians, and then we will talk. Until then, you are creating a straw man.

I don't have to prove intention. Civilians are being murdered. It's a fact.

Maybe to you the fact it might be 'unintentional' (whatever that means - just a buzz word) makes it all ok but at the end of the day the Lebanese people are being killed and for some of us there is no justification either way.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #276 of 882
Leban, pay for the Hezbollah, and yes it's unfair for the civilians killed, who have nothing to do with that.

Leban has a week leadership not able to control his countrie. That's a really sad situation. This could be degenerate quikly and become an another quagmire filled with dead people
post #277 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by Powerdoc
Leban, pay for the Hezbollah, and yes it's unfair for the civilians killed, who have nothing to do with that.

Leban has a week leadership not able to control his countrie. That's a really sad situation. This could be degenerate quikly and become an another quagmire filled with dead people

How can a civilian stop a terrorist? How can they be held responsible as Israel is doing?

The people of Lebanon want peace and have had peace. It is Israel that is turning them away from that by actions like this.

This is what breeds terrorism and this is what israel has always done. Add the fact that Israel is above the law and the world is not interested in the plight of their victims and you see why the region is like it is and why terrorism has taken such root.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #278 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
I don't have to prove intention. Civilians are being murdered. It's a fact.

Maybe to you the fact it might be 'unintentional' (whatever that means - just a buzz word) makes it all ok but at the end of the day the Lebanese people are being killed and for some of us there is no justification either way.

Fair enough. Since civilians are going to die either way, Israel might as well stop being careful about not killing civilians and just carpet bomb Lebanon.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #279 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
How can a civilian stop a terrorist? How can they be held responsible as Israel is doing?

The people of Lebanon want peace and have had peace. It is Israel that is turning them away from that by actions like this.

This is what breeds terrorism and this is what israel has always done. Add the fact that Israel is above the law and the world is not interested in the plight of their victims and you see why the region is like it is and why terrorism has taken such root.

So I guess the Hezbollah guerilla's aren't Lebanese?

I don't think anyone is arguing that the Lebanese deserve this strike. However, it is incredibly two faced to suggest that Israel started this affair.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #280 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Fair enough. Since civilians are going to die either way, Israel might as well stop being careful about not killing civilians and just carpet bomb Lebanon.

Thank you. You got there. But you never needed the mask - I always saw through it.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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