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All old Israel/Lebanon threads merged in here - Page 11  

post #401 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Ooh look - women and children fleeing the ongoing Israeli barbarism have been slaughtered.

Rack up 17 more kills for 'the good guys'.

There are civilians being killed on both sides. That doesn't make it excusable, but you present all of your arguments as if freedom fighters or whatever your preferred term is are completely without responsibility of their action.

At least Israel apologized for killing civilians. I have never once heard a terrorist organization do that...
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post #402 of 882
BTW -- The photos on the NYTimes site are mostly of the suffering of the Lebanese.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #403 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
At least Israel apologized for killing civilians. I have never once heard a terrorist organization do that...

Killing civilians is sort of like a major pillar in the definition of terrorism, so apologies become pretty irrelevant. Israel kills more civilians than any of the others, but appologizes. -So that makes it OK!?!
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post #404 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Intentionally Killing civilians is sort of like a major pillar in the definition of terrorism, so apologies become pretty irrelevant. Israel kills more civilians than any of the others, but appologizes. -So that makes it OK!?!

There fixed that for you.

Did I say it made it ok?

In Islam intentions matter, so while it may be cold comfort for you, it may actually mean something to the families of the civilians killed.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #405 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
There fixed that for you.

Did I say it made it ok?

In Islam intentions matter, so while it may be cold comfort for you, it may actually mean something to the families of the civilians killed.

What do you know about the discussions on accepted collateral damage going on in the israeli war-room?

Stupid is what stupid does.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #406 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
It seems that the claim that Hizbollah started all this by kidnapping Israeli soldiers from 'across the border' is just pure horseshit - lies spread in favour of Israel by a baised western media.

Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
And you trust Hezbollah's version of the events more so than Israel's?

Anyone care to point out where the border goes?
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #407 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
What do you know about the discussions on accepted collateral damage going on in the israeli war-room?

Stupid is what stupid does.

One of us is making more Assumtions than the other.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #408 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Anyone care to point out where the border goes?

What exactly is your point?
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #409 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
One of us is making more Assumtions than the other.

What assumption did I make? (I see yours).
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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post #410 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
What exactly is your point?

That it doesn't really matter which side on the border they were.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #411 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
What assumption did I make? (I see yours).

I claimed no knowledge of anything other than the apology, which I took at face value.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #412 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
That it doesn't really matter which side on the border they were.

Ok. Great.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #413 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Who said anything about Zionism being a good thing?

Regardless, what do you actually think is going on in the Mid-East Sammi Jo?

Edit: This is what I think is going on:

There are violent radicals on both sides and it is in their interest to keep the violence going. The supremely right wing Zionist move into the palestinian territories not only because they think that they have every right to do so but because they know the violent acts that follow will galvanize support from more moderate Israelis. The supremely right wing terrorist organizations attack Israeli civilians and weaken the Arab states nearby so that they may effect their own violent agenda to wage a constant religious war. That is what the extreme right wings of both sides want, and it is exactly what some segments of right wing american christians want. A perpetual religious war.

I concur. But it's not just religious: there is the financial incentive to certain (defense, security, weapons) corporate parties which benefit hugely from war and unrest, intimately connected with, to the point of fine tuning the foreign policies of the major industrialized nations. It is unreal to deny the cui bono aspects.

Quote:
But the conflict isn't performed at such levels in public, it IS a state protecting its borders; it IS 'freedom fighters' seeking to fight injustice.

Don't Palestinian folk have the right to defend themselves? Or are they considered subhuman? The extreme rightwing Zionist contingent running the Bush administration appear to think that way.

None of this stuff would be happening if it wasn't for the way in 1948 the Palestinian state was ethnically cleansed of some 750,000, sentenced to exist in conditions of abject povert and deprivation, in refugee camps reminiscent of WW2 concentration camps. The cleansing is still going on but never reported in the West... where on a daily basis, Palestinian families are evicted from their land, their homes bulldozed and their farms razed by Israeli army bulldozers (supplied by the US).

The officials who presided over the 1948 decision to end the British Mandate in Palestine to allow the formation of a Jewish state were plainly not braindead, or unperceptive. They were all skilled, experienced politicians They surely must have realized what the longterm effects of such a drastic set of measures would be.
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
post #414 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo

The extreme rightwing Zionist contingent running the Bush administration appear to think that way.

You had me up to here. There is no Zionist contingent running the Bush administration.
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #415 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
I claimed no knowledge of anything other than the apology, which I took at face value.

Having followed kidnappings, rocket attacks, and such stuff going on for some years, it's not an assumption to say that somewhere in Israel, someone decided that both in Gaza and Lebanon, extreem messures were suddenly needed.

Since none of these kidnappings were extraordinary compared to events in the last few years, (israel has traded prisoners with hizbollah before), it's quite obvious that the extreem change in policy lies with the israeli government, and possibly with pressure from the IDF.

(That last half of the sentence was an assumption.)
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #416 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by sammi jo
That is the impression the western news media gives to its readers and viewers, hence it is the mainstream opinion and perception that Israel is merely sitting by while getting arbitrarily attacked.

What I see is this:

People like you come up with the most outrageous kinds of accusations imaginable, like that the Mossad got out their phone list of all the Jews in the WTC so when they flew the planes into it (simultaneously blowing it up with their placed charges and/or missiles fired from the planes), they'd be sure not to kill any fellow Jews.

When people question this nonsense, you then complain about being called anti-semitic. In my experience, complaints about being called anti-semitic outnumber actual allegations of anti-semitism about 2 to 1.

Next, you talk about how all the sheep are brainwashed into disbelieving things like that Israel was behind the combined planted charges/missiles fired/planes flown into the WTC on 9/11.

Sorry, but many of us fully believe that Israel has to take responsibility for its occupation, put a stop to settlements, etc. But all too often, that's not the debate - it's about absurd allegations that Israel is secretly engineering terrorism in order to... I don't know with what purpose. Get more Israelis killed and further radicalize its neighbors against it?
post #417 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by BRussell
Sorry, but many of us fully believe that Israel has to take responsibility for its occupation, put a stop to settlements, etc. But all too often, that's not the debate - it's about absurd allegations that Israel is secretly engineering terrorism in order to... I don't know with what purpose. Get more Israelis killed and further radicalize its neighbors against it?

I agree.

Here is an interesting read:

What Does Israel Want? by Ilan Pappe, 14 July 2006

Imagine a group of high ranking generals who simulated for years Third World War scenarios in which they can move huge armies around, employ the most sophisticated weapons in their disposal and enjoy the immunity of a computerized headquarters from which they can direct their war games. Now imagine that they are informed that in fact there is no Third World War and their expertise is needed to calm down some of the nearby slums or deal with soaring crime in deprived townships and impoverished neighborhoods. And then imagine - in the final episode in my chimerical crisis - what happens when they find out how irrelevant have their plans been and how useless are their weapons in the struggle against the street violence produced by social inequality, poverty and years of discrimination in their society. They can either admit failure or decide none the less to use the massive and destructive arsenal at their disposal. We are witnessing today the havoc wreaked by Israeli generals who opted for latter course of action.

I have been teaching in the Israeli universities for 25 years. Several of my students were high ranking officers in the army. I could see their growing frustration since the outbreak of the first Intifada in 1987. They detested this kind of confrontation, called euphemistically by the gurus of the American discipline of International Relations: low intensity conflict. It was too low to their taste. They were faced with stones, molotov bottles and primitive arms which required a very limited use of the huge arsenal the army has amassed throughout the years and did not test at all their ability to perform in a battlefield or a war zone. Even when the army used tanks and F-16s, it was a far cry from the war games the officers played in the Israeli Matkal headquarters and for which they bought, with American tax payer money the most sophisticated and updated weaponry existing in the market.

The first Intifada was crushed, but the Palestinians continued to seek ways of ending the occupation. They rose again in 2000, inspired this time by a more religious group of national leaders and activists. But it was still a low intensity conflict; no more than that. But this is not what the army expected, it was yearning for a real war. As Raviv Druker and Offer Shelah, two Israeli journalists with close ties to the IDF, show in a recent book, Boomerang (p. 50), major military exercises before the second Intifada were based on a scenario that envisaged a full-scale war. It was predicted that in the case of another Palestinian uprising, there would be three days of riots in the occupied territories that would turn into a head-on confrontation with neighboring Arab states, especially Syria. Such a confrontation, it was argued, was needed to maintain Israels power of deterrence and reinforce the generals confidence in their armys ability to conduct a conventional war.

The frustration was unbearable as the three days in the exercise turned into six years. And yet, the Israeli armys main vision for the battlefield is today still that of shock and awe rather than chasing snipers, suicide bombers and political activists. The low intensity war questions the invincibility of the army and erodes its capability to engage in a real war. More important than anything else, it does not allow Israel to impose unilaterally its vision over the land of Palestine a de-Arabized land mostly in Jewish hands. Most of the Arab regimes have been complacent and weak enough to allow the Israelis to pursue their policies, apart from Syria and Hizballah in Lebanon. They have to be neutralized if Israeli unileteralism is to succeed.

After the outbreak of the second Intifada in October 2000, some of the frustration was allowed to evaporate with the use of 1,000 kilo bombs on a Gaza house or during operation Defense Shield in 2002 when the army bulldozered the refugee camp in Jenin. But this too was a far cry from what the strongest army in the Middle East could do. And despite the demonization of the mode of resistance chosen by the Palestinians in the second Intifada the suicide bomb you needed only two or three F-16 and a small number of tanks to punish collectively the Palestinians by totally destroying their human, economic and social infrastructure.

I know these generals as well as one could know them. In the last week, they have had a field day. No more random use of one-kilo bombs, battleships, choppers and heavy artillery. The weak and insignificant new minister of defense, Amir Perez, accepted without hesitation the army demand for crushing the Gaza strip and grinding Lebanon to dust. But it may not be enough. It can still deteriorate into a full scale war with the hapless army of Syria and my ex-students may even push by provocative actions towards such an eventuality. And, if you believe what you read in the local press here, it may even escalate into a long distance war with Iran, backed by a supreme American umbrella.

Even the most partial reports in the Israeli press of what was proposed by the army to Ehud Olmerts government as possible operations in the coming days, indicate clearly what enthuses the Israeli generals these days. Nothing less that a total destruction of Lebanon, Syria and Tehran.

The politicians at the top are more tamed, to a point. They have only partially satisfied the armys hunger for a high intensity conflict. But their politics of the day are already donned by military propaganda and rational.This why Zipi Livni, Israeli foreign minister, an otherwise intelligent person, could say genuinely on Israeli TV tonight (13 July 2006) that the best way to retrieve the two captured soldiers is to destroy totally the international airport of Beirut. Abductors or armies that have two POWs of course immediately go and buy commercial tickets on the next flight from an international airport for the captors and the two soldiers. But they can sneak them with a car, insisted the interviewers. Oh indeed said the Israeli Foreign Minister, This is why we will also destroy all the roads in Lebanon leading outside the country. This is good news for the army, to destroy airports, set fire to petrol tanks, blow up bridges, damage roads and inflict collateral damage on a civilian population. At least the airforce can show its real might and compensate for the frustrating years of the low intensity conflict that had sent Israels best and fiercest to run after boys and girls in the alleys of Nablus or Hebron. In Gaza the airforce has already dropped five such bombs, where in the last six years it dropped only one.

This may be not enough, though, for the army generals. They already say clearly on TV that we here in Israel should not forget Damascus and Teheran. Past experiences tell us what they mean by this appeal against our collective amnesia.

The captive soldiers in Gaza and Lebanon have already been deleted from the public agenda here. This is about destroying the Hizballah and Hamas once and for all, not about bringing home the soldiers. In a similar way in the summer of 1982, the Israeli public have totally forgotten the victim that provided the government of Menachem Begin with the excuse of invading Lebanon. He was Shlomo Aragov, Israels ambassador to London on whose life an attempt was made by a splinter Palestinian group. The attack on him served Ariel Sharon with the pretext of invading Lebanon and staying there for 18 years.

Alternative routes for the conflict are not even raised in Israel, not even by the Zionist left. No one mentions commonsensical ideas such as an exchange of prisoners or a commencement of a dialogue with the Hamas and other Palestinian groups at least over a long ceasefire to prepare the ground for more meaningful political negotiations in the future. This alternative way forward is already backed by all the Arab countries, but alas only by them. In Washington, Donald Ramsfeld may have lost some of his deputies in the Defense Department, but he is still the Secretary. For him, the total destruction of the Hamas and Hizballah whatever the price and if it is without loss of American life will vindicate the raison dĂȘtre for the Third World Theory he propagated early on in 2001. The current crisis for him is a righteous battle against a small axis of evil away from the quagmire of Iraq and a precursor for the so far unattained goals in the war against terror Syria and Iran. If indeed to a certain extent the Empire was serving the proxy in Iraq, the full fledged support President Bush gave to the recent Israeli aggression in Gaza and Lebanon, shows that may be pay off time has come: now the proxy should salvage the entangled Empire.

Hizballah wants back the piece of southern Lebanon Israel still retains. It also wishes to play a major role in Lebanese politics and shows ideological solidarity with both Iran and the Palestinian struggle in general, and the Islamist one, in particular. The three goals do not always complement each other and resulted in a very limited war effort against Israel in the last six years. The total resurrection of tourism on the Israeli side of the border with Lebanon testifies that, unlike the Israeli generals, for its own reasons the Hizballah is very happy with a very low intensity conflict. If and when a comprehensive solution for the Palestine question will be achieved even that impulse would die out. Crossing 100 yards into Israel proper is such an action. Retaliating to such a low key operation with a total war and destruction indicates clearly that what matters is the grand design not the pretext.

There is nothing new in this. In 1948, the Palestinians opted for a very low intensity conflict when the UN imposed on them a deal which wrested from their hand half of their homeland and gave it to a community of newcomers and settlers, most of whom arrived after 1945. The Zionist leaders waited for long time for that opportunity and launched an ethnic cleansing operation that expelled half of the lands native population, destroyed half of its villages and dragged the Arab world into unnecessary conflict with the West, whose powers were already on the way out with the demise of colonialism. The two designs are interconnected: the wider Israels military might expands, the easier it is to complete the unfinished business of the 1948: the total de-Arabization of Palestine.

It is not too late to stop the Israeli designs from creating a new and terrible reality on the ground. But the window of opportunity is very narrow and the world needs to take action before it is too late.

Ilan Pappe is senior lecturer in the University of Haifa Department of political Science and Chair of the Emil Touma Institute for Palestinian Studies in Haifa. His books include among others The Making of the Arab-Israeli Conflict (London and New York 1992), The Israel/Palestine Question (London and New York 1999), A History of Modern Palestine (Cambridge 2003), The Modern Middle East (London and New York 2005) and forthcoming, Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine (2006)

Emphasize is mine.
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #418 of 882
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post #419 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by Gene Clean
When you're ugly, you look better if everyone around you is uglier.

Is that a description of Bush foreign policy?
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post #420 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Is that a description of Bush foreign policy?

Pretty much.
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post #421 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Israel had its borders violated in 1967 - and it cannot retreat back to those borders because it cannot trust its neighbors. I wouldn't trust them either, if they had a history of planning my destruction, attacking my house, and paying others to attack my house.

Israel needs defensible borders because it has untrustworthy neighbors, so the 1967 borders are unacceptable. If France was trying to wipe out Monaco on a daily basis, the borders of Monaco would also be a touchy subject for Monacans.

Actually.

Israel did not have it's borders violated in 67. No matter how you spinn 67, you can't get away from the fact that Israel attack first.

Secondly, Israel is the only country on earth who has not defined it's own borders. To this day Israel does not have a constitution or fixed borders.
Instead we have a Wild West situation.

Now why is that?
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post #422 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Anyone care to point out where the border goes?

I'm a bit disapointed that nobody else commented on this. It's not every day you get to discuss a border in this detail.

See, those are the famous Sheeba farms just there on the left I belive. Pretty disapointing stuff.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #423 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Actually.

Israel did not have it's borders violated in 67. No matter how you spinn 67, you can't get away from the fact that Israel attack first.

Secondly, Israel is the only country on earth who has not defined it's own borders. To this day Israel does not have a constitution or fixed borders.
Instead we have a Wild West situation.

Now why is that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1967_war

You need to re-read the 1967 history -

"The IDF's strategic plan was to remain on the defensive along the Jordanian front, to enable focus in the expected campaign against Egypt. However, on the morning of 5 June, Jordanian forces made thrusts in the area of Jerusalem, occupying Government House used as the headquarters for the UN observers and shelled the Israeli (western) part of the city. Units in Qalqiliya fired in the direction of Tel-Aviv. The Royal Jordanian Air Force attacked Israeli airfields. Both air and artillery attacks caused little damage. Israeli units were scrambled to attack Jordanian forces in the West Bank. In the afternoon of that same day, Israeli Air Force (IAF) strikes destroyed the Royal Jordanian Air Force. By the evening of that day, the Jerusalem infantry brigade moved south of Jerusalem, while the mechanized Harel and Gur's paratroopers encircled it from the north."

The original 1967 borders were too narrow in the middle, and a surprise attack from Jordan could cut Israel in two. Which is why they took the Jordan valley after being attacked by them.
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post #424 of 882
Following on from the recent confirmation that the initial 'Hezbollah kidnapping' was a crock of horse manure, it seems that someone has been telling porky-pies about the preceding incident of how Palestinians 'dug a tunnel' to kidnap the soldier Shalit. In fact, this one totally blows the BS meter.

An experienced and acclaimed engineer exposes the lies:

Quote:
As an engineer Ive given the notion of digging a tunnel which the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs tells us was some 650 metres long,[1] dug under sand across the Gaza border into Israel some thought. Im beginning to wonder whether this is actually feasible especially considering that it would have to be built covertly and across the terrain that Israel claims. A 650 metre long covert tunnel being constructed under sand is a considerable undertaking the logistics of which would be enormous. The tunnel, even a crawl tunnel measuring 900mm x 900mm in cross section, would require 100% full shoring if actually constructed in sand and at least 60% if constructed in clay/soil. That means all that shoring material, literally tonnes of it, would have to be loaded down the shaft of the tunnel head and then transported along the tunnel to the tunnel face where one man at the face would have to position it and then excavate out the next section of tunnel with all the problems that that involves in shifting the excavated material back down the tunnel to the head shaft where it would have to be disposed of. Rock would be out of the question because of the noise of hammering through it and the extra logistics of getting hammer equipment to the face.

Now, 0.9m wide x 0.9m high x 650m long tunnel would require 526 cubic metres of excavation to be removed at, say, 1.3 tonnes per cubic metre if dry, thats 684 tonnes of dirt to dispose of. A good three-axle semi trailer would take about 30 tonnes a load so thats about 23 semi-trailer loads.

A tunnel this size will also require ventilating. This could be done by boring vertical holes to the surface and simply casing the holes with flexible plastic pipe. However, there is a very large section of ploughed-up no-mans land that is under constant surveillance and a few bits of pipe sticking up out of the ground could arouse a suspicion that we be an unacceptable risk. Alternatively, a simple fan could be used to pump air along the tunnel but to fully ventilate a 650m long tunnel would require a fairly large fan to counter the back pressure of such a long pipe. Not impossible, but a lot of work.

The real problems in building a tunnel under these conditions is 1) the problem of disguising the head shaft of the tunnel, which could be solved by building from within an existing structure like a house or a shed, though this would not solve the problem of 2) disguising the delivery of equipment and shoring material and, worse, disposing of the excavated material.

In short, yet another crock of horse-shit aimed straight at the brain cell of the unquestioning masses.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
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post #425 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Following on from the recent confirmation that the initial 'Hezbollah kidnapping' was a crock of horse manure, it seems that someone has been telling porky-pies about the preceding incident of how Palestinians 'dug a tunnel' to kidnap the soldier Shalit. In fact, this one totally blows the BS meter.

An experienced and acclaimed engineer exposes the lies:



In short, yet another crock of horse-shit aimed straight at the brain cell of the unquestioning masses.

Sorry - your engineer is a bozo. Mexican and Canadian drug dealers are constantly digging tunnels across the US border, and they seem to do it pretty well. I doubt that the tunnel was dug for just the single purpose of kidnapping, it was probably a multi-use tunnel.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #426 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Sorry - your engineer is a bozo. Mexican and Canadian drug dealers are constantly digging tunnels across the US border, and they seem to do it pretty well. I doubt that the tunnel was dug for just the single purpose of kidnapping, it was probably a multi-use tunnel.

I was going to say, look they hate Israel period and have called for the destruction of Israel and want a big war that draws in other Muslims like their supporters Syria & Iran. So Iran wants a nuclear weapons program? The world isnt going to let it happen. Sorry Segovius.
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post #427 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Following on from the recent confirmation that the initial 'Hezbollah kidnapping' was a crock of horse manure, it seems that someone has been telling porky-pies about the preceding incident of how Palestinians 'dug a tunnel' to kidnap the soldier Shalit. In fact, this one totally blows the BS meter.

An experienced and acclaimed engineer exposes the lies:



In short, yet another crock of horse-shit aimed straight at the brain cell of the unquestioning masses.

Do you ever prove anything to anyone?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #428 of 882
Oh look, the bombed out Gaza Airport.
Google maps is amazing.

Notice how the topograph is just insanely different on the three sides of the borders. Egypt : desert, Gaza : Shantytown, Israel : Fertile farmland.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #429 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Do you ever prove anything to anyone?

Not to you. You are beyond that I think.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #430 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Oh look, the bombed out Gaza Airport.
Google maps is amazing.

Notice how the topograph is just insanely different on the three sides of the borders. Egypt : desert, Gaza : Shantytown, Israel : Fertile farmland.

Look at the border between Spain and France in the Basque region - same pattern. France must be oppressing Spain!

Really - Spain is a Mexican dump in that corner, and France is like a nice green garden.
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
post #431 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by segovius
Not to you. You are beyond that I think.

Well, you're just pathetic. You lack intellectual rigor to your arguments, and in the case of this argument, you haven't shown anything you claim to be the case. Why should anyone give you and your arguments the time of day when all you have is vague and popular notions of 'how it works for those conspiratorial elite'?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #432 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by e1618978
Look at the border between Spain and France in the Basque region - same pattern. France must be oppressing Spain!

Err... I just said it was interesting to notice the difference. You should wait for the bait to actually be thrown in.

And Seg, just by looking at the maps it doesn't seem that hard to dig a tunnel. And; It doesn't matter which side the kidnapping occured on.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
post #433 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by New
Oh look, the bombed out Gaza Airport.
Google maps is amazing.

Notice how the topograph is just insanely different on the three sides of the borders. Egypt : desert, Gaza : Shantytown, Israel : Fertile farmland.

Actually, the issue is that the photos are blended from different periods... There are areas of Gaza that are green and lush. Not to make the obvious point that Egypt's farms are along the comparatively lush Nile, and before Israel converted the negev it was as much a desert as sanai.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #434 of 882
And I should say Seg, I think you are better than your posts on this topic are...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #435 of 882
They are not original material - I am quoting....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #436 of 882
My original thoughts would in all likelihood result in a banning and/or arrest and otherwise deemed unworthy of publication.
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #437 of 882
Both of you are ugly and your mothers dress you funny.

I'm waiting for you all to just start going "Nyaaaaaaaa!!!"
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
post #438 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Both of you are ugly and your mothers dress you funny.

I'm waiting for you all to just start going "Nyaaaaaaaa!!!"

Actually that's true....
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
What is Faith? When your good deed pleases you and your evil deed grieves you, you are a believer. What is Sin? When a thing disturbs the peace of your heart, give it up - Prophet Muhammad
post #439 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by midwinter
Both of you are ugly and your mothers dress you funny.

I'm waiting for you all to just start going "Nyaaaaaaaa!!!"

Nyaaaaaaaa!!!

My mother was a drunken Israeli Sailor and my other mother was a young Palestinian freedom fighter with an explosive teddy.

My conception was a terribly violent act.

(oh, and that purdue chicken goldie locks commercial disturbs me)
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
post #440 of 882
Quote:
Originally posted by hardeeharhar
Actually, the issue is that the photos are blended from different periods... There are areas of Gaza that are green and lush. Not to make the obvious point that Egypt's farms are along the comparatively lush Nile, and before Israel converted the negev it was as much a desert as sanai.

I said topography. Not colors. look at the objects on the ground.

PS. Hidden bonus. Zoom in on the airstrip, and see the bombmarks.
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
Bill Bradley to comedian Bill Cosby: "Bill, you are a comic, tell us a joke!"
- "Senator, you are a politician, first tell us a lie!"
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