Wi-Fi seen limiting battery life on MS iPod rival - Page 2

Heck, I like the Wi-Fi and bluetooth era but it's all about the music. And music sooths the savge Mac user...or is it Windows user. I get confused....

I don't see what the issue is. You can turn the Wi-fi off. Only use it when you need it. Where's the battery drain when it's off?

There is none, but with some devices, going through the menus to turn on and off the radio can be tedious. It might be acceptable if it can be turn itself off after a minute of inactivity. I don't know how many devices are that smart.

The problem is that people are either in a hurry, or get distracted. If it turned off too quickly, then people would be cursing that as well.

I was thinking it might be something that might wake up if a program requests activity. I think waiting a few seconds for it to automatically reconnect is a lot better than traversing menus to toggle the radio's power, and traversing back to the previous activity.

It depends on the device. my 700p will connect if I go to the internet. But even though it uses ED Vo, which is pretty fast, it still has to go through all of the usual handshaking. WiFi worries me, because it is really not very secure. Few people set the encryption properly, if at all. I can imagine people sitting at popular hotspots and grabbing onto someone's computer or phone network connection, and doing damage, stealing information, passwords, credit card info. etc.

Even Bluetooth isn't secure, as is now well known.

Is this Wu's personal blog site. Every other story is an analyst story from Shawn Wu. Hi!

Which is why it should be a physical switch, not a menu.

Wireless would be awesome on an iPod *zune if it functioned like the Airport Express.
If you could plug it into any stereo in your home, and have a computer steaming music to it/throu it. This way, the iPod could be plugged in at the stereo source, and battery life is no longer a concern.
I'd like to see the iPod / Car relationship improve too. FM transmitters are a hassle.

Isn't the iPod - Nike relationship somewhat of a wireless solution?

Read the manual ????


Palm traditionally underclock the CPU on PalmOS but I bet not on Windows Mobile.


I disagree. Symbian is a far more sophisticated and more importantly 'fit for purpose' OS than either Windows Mobile or PalmOS and it's catching both Palm and Windows Mobile up. Handango lists 12851 Windows Mobile apps, 11230 Palm apps and 6241 Symbian apps which isn't bad considering. Palm will surely fade even more with no OS upgrade on the horizon and expensive, power hungry handsets.

It uses a very low power, slow RF signal which isn't powerful enough or fast enough to be of any use for music.

I was thinking about how you could make sharing music legally acceptable to the various music industry bodies and labels.

Perhaps...

You can download/share tracks between players but when you're back at your PC/Xbox or in range of a wifi hotspot, unless you purchase the track within a couple of days, it's deleted/locked. This way you get free sharing and the record industry might see more purchases as people decide to keep the track they've scammed off of someone on the subway/train/bus.

That implies some kind of DRM scheme and lookup system. If the original track was DRMd originally, no problem. If it was ripped from a CD with no DRM then the transfer would have to wrap it in a DRM wrapper during the transfer. Easy enough done although there might be a need for transcoding also. It also makes WMA and DRM even more pervasive. The record companies would love that. Consumers would get free tracks for a while and probably love that. Microsoft gets to make WMA more prevalent. They'd love that.

Really?. The ability to update your music at a hotspot is not usefull?. You can't see that?. How about after zune comes out, google comes out with a tool to let you access your music from anywhere there is a wi-fi hotspot (oh, i don't know, AT A FRIGGIN HOTEL YOU JUST CHECKED INTO). How about maybe you couldn't hold all your songs on the zune so now you want to upload new songs you already bought (say you have 10,000 songs but your zune only holds 1000). Hmm, google allows you to do this at a wi-fi spot so that YOU DON'T HAVE TO FRIGGIN FLY HOME FROM CALIFORNIA TO NEW YORK JUST TO ACCESS YOUR F**KING COMPUTER TO UPDATE YOUR MUSIC ON THE ZUNE.

You should check your vision. It is very limited. It's possible you need eyeware prescription. If you can't see the possibilities, you might want to go to walmart and buy a packet of imagination.

I hate when dumbasses like you come out and say "i don't see a reason to use x feature cause i wouldn't". Who gives a rat ass what you would use?. Personally, I think battery life is a real concern. My ipod nano does not have wireless and already i bitch about the battery life but that does not mean just cause the battery life sucks, the idea of wireless sucks. If somehow someone could wave a magic wand and give me wireless player with great battery life with similiar form factor, i'd give you my ipod nano for free.. all you would have to do is pay shipping and handling (cause then, it would be worthless).

[QUOTE]Originally posted by aegisdesign
[B]Read the manual ????

That's why I said right there, that if it didn't say so in the manual.



It's not underclocked on the 700p. I doubt if it would be on the 700w.



I've had a friend ot two with Symbian based phones, and I'll still say that I'm not impressed.

I don't doubt that Palm's fate is hanging by a thread. It's too bad. But Symbian still sucks in comparison. Maybe in a couple more years, but not not now.

It's an interesting idea. But I don't think the industry would want to allow that kind of backdating purchases. If it were ripped from a CD, then it doesn't really matter. The industry has no control over it at that point anyway.

That was an unnecessarily insulting post. You should apologize to Wings. You can make your point without going through that.

rather insulting & over the top.

I'm inclined to agree with Wings. Generally speaking, I can't imagine what the hell I'd do with Wireless in a portable "iPod Killer" - unless it was to stream music from Point A to Point B in my house. I'm sure not going to be surfing for new tunes on my Zune's micro-screen at some wireless hot spot "out in the world" & I can't see a lot of other people doing that either. Maybe MS has some amazing new way of "doing" music & wireless that none of us can conceive of, right?

I also wonder, what does the Wireless feature do to the size-factor of the Zune? Seems like it'd increase the size. Already the Zune is sounding larger/heavier than the iPod.

This is where the iPod phone comes in. My treo 700p has EV-DO. This isn't as fast as WiFi, but it's plenty fast as it is. I clock between 400Kbs to almost 1Mbs anywhere I am. Including on the 43rd floor office of my wife's building in Queens. Try WiFi there.

Until WiFi is ubiquitous, as EV-DO is fast becoming, it simply is marginal. And EV-DO itself is getting faster. We will see 2Mbs before too long, and possibly even higher.

I would rather have that speed all over, than a higher one in a few spots here and there.

Why would you go cross-country trip without a notebook? One reason I keep an old notebook is for this sort of thing and I don't travel much. Do you think you would have listened to all 1k songs on the trip?

It looks to me that "WiFi" on a portable media player is a solution in search of a problem.

Nothing like kicking yourself in the teeth. I'm sure MS could design and make a nice iPod killer - the chances are however that it will be overhyped and fail to meet expectations - much like Vista. Although who knows - this could turn out to be a good product like IE7.

You jest surely? Weird interface, non-moveable toolbars and CSS support that is still years behind the rest of the industry.

But if you're not jesting, perhaps your idea of a good product is so low that Zune might succeed.

Wings, The consensus is that my post was insulting. I apologize. The folks are right. I could have made my point without going over the top.

Cause i don't have a notebook?. well, actually i do, my company pc laptop but i try not to log that around when on vacation too often. I'm held responsible if the laptop is stolen. I bet when cell phones first appeared, wings was one of the first to proclaim "who would want to call people when not at home?". I'm sure the first cell networks had horrible coverage. Common folks. Think. We are mac folks, we are supposed to be the cool, smart ones.. what you think will happen to wi-fi hotspots as more gadgets are made that uses wi-fi?. More and more companies will build hotspots. You should visit South Korea to see a truly advanced internet country. There is access everywhere (it seems so). We are nitpicking the wi-fi player based on current number of wi-fi spots?.. did we do that when cell phones first came out?.. do people forget that cell phones could only initially work in small areas and getting on a highway meant losing your signal (probably still does for a portion of the country). What happened?. As cell phone demand increased, cell networks increased. Frankly, i believe there are sufficient wi-fi spots available to make a wireless player viable. Most hotels have wi-fi. Starbucks have wi-fi, panera bread has wi-fi. Lots of public libraries have wi-fi.. heck, i visited a hospital my girlfriend works at and there was wi-fi in the cafeteria (but only in the cafeteria and it was free).. It's popping up everywhere!!.. There is enough places where it makes sense. Not every time i go out i walk with a notebook or laptop, besides, people can afford a mp3 player, not a lot of people can afford a notebook or laptop. Jeff I guess you must be very well off. I can only envy you.

My notebook is only worth $200, I don't see how it makes me well-off.

user23, sometimes even the most brilliant people make insane statements.. here is a sample

1927 Who the hell wants to hear actors talk? (H M Warner of Warner Brothers)

1927 The modern computer hovers between the obsolescent and the nonexistent. (Sydney Brenner)

1939 The problem with television is that the people must sit and keep their eyes glued on a screen: the average American family hasn't time for it. (The New York Times)

1943 I think there is a world market for maybe five computers. (?Thomas Watson of IBM)

1946 [Television] won't be able to hold on to any market it captures after the first six months. People will soon get tired of staring at a plywood box every night. (Darryl F Zanuck)

1949 It would appear that we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with computer technology, although one should be careful with such statements, as they tend to sound pretty silly in 5 years. (John von Neumann)

1954 Why would you want more than one machine language? (John von Neumann)

1957 I have traveled the length and breadth of this country and talked with the best people, and I can assure you that data processing is a fad that won't last out the year. (Editor of business books for Prentice Hall)

1968 What the hell is [a microprocessor] good for? (Robert Lloyd of IBM's Advanced Computing Systems Division)

1977 There is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home. (Ken Olson of Digital Equipment)

1984 The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a mouse. There is no evidence that people want to use these things. (John Dvorak)

1986 UNIX is dead, but no one bothered to claim the body. (John Dvorak)

1988 Computer viruses are an urban myth. (Peter Norton)

1994 I see little commercial potential for the Internet for at least ten years. (Bill Gates)

1995 I predict the Internet will soon go spectacularly supernova and in 1996 catastrophically collapse. (Robert Metcalfe)

1998 Folks, the Mac platform is through - totally. (John Dvorak)

And now, added to the list

Generally speaking, I can't imagine what the hell I'd do with Wireless in a portable "iPod Killer" (user23, in appleinsider forum 7/25/2006).

Ok, cause if i wanted to walk around with something as big as a notebook, i'd buy a Sony PSP instead of a ipod nano?.
Does that excuse grab you or do i have to keep coming up with reasons i do not want to walk around with a notebook?.

Apologies to Sony, i am sure a PSP is smaller than a notebook (the post above was just tongue in cheek).. Jeff.. there are lots of people who are not geeks. I admit i am a geek and i tell you, even i get tired of walking around with my laptop. I mean, i get tired LOTS of times Jeff. Maybe yours is a fashion accessory so you don't mind walking everywhere with it but i mind. Can i wirelessly update my music Jeff those times i don't feel like packing the notebook Jeff?.. is that ok with you?

Why would you need to walk around with the notebook again? Are you talking your home city or away?

Hmmm... ok, you pulling my leg now.. but i'll reply (well, cause i don't know, i just like replying).. we were talking about updating our music on a player when not at home?.. i believe you made the point we can walk with the notebook hence dispensing with need for wireless?.. you know what forget it..

yeah, why are we walking around with the notebook again?.

Over and out.. gotta to go be productive folks.

It most likely will be very disappointing and not able to measure up to the ipod.. luckily for MS, they don't seem to have a problem losing billions while trying to get a product right (see the Xbox). The scary thing for Apple is MS might get lucky at some point and you how the herd mentality is. It seems a large portion of the population seems predisposed to giving MS their hard earned money. Next 5 years, John Dvorak will be writing about how Apple is attempting to catch up with microsoft in the portable player and how the ipod is dead.

To be honest, I still don't see the point yet. If you're not traveling, then I don't see the problem. I just don't see the attraction or need to update it more than once a day. Maybe if you were streaming internet audio, but that's still quite a bit less useful than FM or XM, those don't just suddenly fade out after 100ft away from the AP. WiMax would be cool, but streaming over wireless still presents battery issues.

I may live to eat my words.

To us oldies, perhaps not but to the teeny bop generation?.. hell yeah. My cousins that are in their teens change their cell phones every 6 months (it's insane i agree.. i shake my head at that). Why would anyone need to constantly upgrade their cell phones other than to look cool all the time?. I know for fact that sometimes after i leave the house, i don't care to listen to some of the music on my player anymore and wish i could change it (and i am not a teeny bopper with a short attention span). Trust me on this one Jeff.. this player will find a market. You will be perplexed at why but many, many teens will want one (provided MS markets it correctly and it looks cool. The marketing i don't doubt but the coolness factor.. hmmm.. yeah.. even the Xbox looks ugly!!). MS might have to steal a few designers from apple.

I think IE7 is the best piece of software Microsoft has ever written.

As far as RSS is concerned I prefer its implementation to FireFox's.

Edit - sorry I'm very tired - you said CSS not RSS, yes that is true!

Although for me in the UK, Wifi is infinitely more useful than XM. I can't see Apple adding something that is only available in the USA.

Couple it with Microsoft's rumoured myspace/msn type social networking and I'll agree.

I still can't work out what is so good about myspace or msn. Both of which suck seven shades of ass, but are more popular than pretty much anything with one survey saying myspace had surpassed google recently!

Even if I'm sat wondering why a site I could have knocked up in an idle weekend is so popular (except mine wouldn't be so shit), teens and kids think it's great. Of course I'm just jealous I didn't think of it but then I'd have major issues foisting such dross on the world.

Those are all well known quotes. But that doesn't mean that everything someone comes up with will be a success. There are actually bad ideas.

By saying that WiFi doesn't work in a handheld now, doesn't mean that in several years it still won't. But for the next couple of years, at least, it serves little function.

When you can walk down the street using it, and there is no signal drop out, and your handheld doesn't die after an hour or two, it may become viable. Until then, no.

But at the same time Bluetooth is also advancing, and EV-DO is here, and also advancing. There are other wireless technologies that phone companies and phone manufacturers are working on as well.

By the time WiFi becomes feasible for a handheld, it may very well become obsolete.

Don't put all of your eggs in one basket. There are more wireless technologies that the limited range WiFi.

All of the quotes above relate to what you are saying about WiFi, because they are talking about a much broader range than you are. If we said that wireless will never work on a handheld, then you could pull out those quotes, but otherwise, no.

Now, I know that you kind of squeezed in "wireless" instead of the WiFi you have been fighting for. But none of us is objecting to "wireless", it's WiFi that we disagree with you on here.

We can change some of those quotes to correspond to the specificity of WiFi in that context.

"1943 I think there is a world market for maybe five *RCA* computers. (?Thomas Watson of IBM)"

"1949 It would appear that we have reached the limits of what it is possible to achieve with *tubed* computer technology, although one should be careful with such statements, as they tend to sound pretty silly in 5 years. (John von Neumann)"

"1986 *Assembler* is dead, but no one bothered to claim the body. (John Dvorak)"

I could do more.

This reinforces my belief that a self-policing board is the best way to go. It's called "peer pressure" and it works. I have a story about this. A vice president of a company I used to work for devised a system of peer pressure to cut down on reported workers comp claims at his workplace. He came up with a system that would reward all of the workers on the factory floor if the "days without an accident" were zero for each quarter. The other workers forced the injured worker to just get fixed up without filing a claim since everyone stood to benefit only if no reports were filed. I don't know about the legality of this scheme, but damn, it worked like magic.

But it doesn't always work. I've been insulted by a couple if people who were REALLY insulting. No one came and commented on it. The same person does this not only to me, but to others. Never has he been called on it. Sadly, not even the moderators here do their jobs properly.

So have I, Mel... so have I been grievously insulted, especially in my early days on the BBSes (for those new to the game, this means Bulletin Board System, which was the precursor to the Net).

HAVING SAID THAT, opinions are like a-holes, as they say... and free speech is better than no speech. I'll take the good with the bad.

There was an awful lot less back then though as you'd have to wait 24 hours for Fidonet to deliver your mail.

That's true. At Compuserve there wasn't much of anything at 300 baud.