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Vista vs Leopard

post #1 of 79
7/31/06 at 9:12am
Thread Starter 
Macs rock, we all know it, that's why we're here.

But I must say, Vista (while a complete ripoff of OSX...) is by FAR the hugest and best Windows update since Win95. It has even ME drooling over PCs for the first time in YEARS.

Anybody have any thoughts on Vista vs Leopard? Vista's resolution independence is NICE.. And it is WAY good-looking (for Windows) even compared to OSX. Plus getting a Vista system is much cheaper than buying a new Mac...

Here are some articles on Vista's features:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_vista

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...s/default.mspx
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post #2 of 79
7/31/06 at 9:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
But I must say, Vista (while a complete ripoff of OSX...) is by FAR the hugest and best Windows update since Win95.

I found 2000 and XP to be much more significant upgrades.

Quote:
Plus getting a Vista system is much cheaper than buying a new Mac...

Not this again.
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post #3 of 79
7/31/06 at 9:46am
There's very little in Vista that has me drooling, and no surprise, as I've had the great majority of Vista's features for years now.

But I suspect it will be quite popular among Windows users.... for that very same reason.

Anyway, if we're going to do this comparison, we need to know more about Leopard (of which resolution independence is practically a guaranteed feature, btw).

We'll know more in just a week, so let's wait just a bit, shall we?
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post #4 of 79
7/31/06 at 9:48am
Thread Starter 
Oh!

You're right, I completely forgot about the WWDC!!

Thanks, good idea, let's continue this thread next week, it'll be much more interesting then...
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post #5 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:12am
I tried Vista on my new Dell PC at work a few weeks ago and couldn't wait to switch back to XP. I really disliked it for the 20-30 minutes I used it.

Having said that, I will say there are many features and UI concepts/refinements from XP I hope to see in Leopard.
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post #6 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:21am
Thread Starter 
Really?

You DISliked Vista?

Why? What about it didn't you like?

My friend and I installed it on his pooter, and we LOVED it.. No games would run, since they're not compatible with DX10, but that's just the beta; the final will include DX9 as well, for compatibility...

So what did you not like?
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post #7 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:23am
As far as I can tell from that Wikipedia article, there is almost nothing Vista's got as far as technologies go that OS X hasn't had (in most cases, for years). And the imitation is comical (chess, switching outlook's name to Mail). SuperFetch and ReadyBoost>> sort of interesting/weird but way too far fetched to actually work.

SideShow> based on a false premise (for mac users anyway)-it is completely practical to start my laptop to check an adress or phone number because it takes less than a second to wake from sleep.

Even Apple, when they stole the widgets idea had the decency to not go and change the name. Gadgets-ooh, sneaky. Wait a minute! Is that or is that not a wire basket????http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...e/sidebar.mspx

Ooh, look, they have system wide speech recognition!
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post #8 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:32am
Thread Starter 
Yeah, I agree about it being a COMPLETE SHAMEFUL RIPOFF of OSX..... But that doesn't make it any less cool!

For a PC, this is really good!

(Even Smart Folders they copied.... And big icons.... And transparent title bars on windows..... the list goes on and on.....)

I mean, I will always be a Mac user. But I am still drooling over Vista. For a PC, this is BIG.

(and Macs don't yet have the 3Dness, though they may soon...)
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post #9 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
Yeah, I agree about it being a COMPLETE SHAMEFUL RIPOFF of OSX..... But that doesn't make it any less cool!

For a PC, this is really good!

(Even Smart Folders they copied.... And big icons.... And transparent title bars on windows..... the list goes on and on.....)

I mean, I will always be a Mac user. But I am still drooling over Vista. For a PC, this is BIG.

(and Macs don't yet have the 3Dness, though they may soon...)

What do you mean by 3Dness?
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post #10 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:40am
Thread Starter 
When you alt-tab (Win equivalent of CMD-tab on a mac) in Vista, it cycles through the windows in a 3D view.

No practical REASON for this, and it KILLS your graphics card, but hey- same with the Genie effect and we all LOVE that....

Here's some pix:

http://www.dylangreene.com/custom/Im...ablonghorn.jpg

http://blogs.developpeur.org/photos/.../original.aspx

http://www.winvistabeta.com/files%2F...tch-screen.jpg

http://www.winsupersite.com/images/r...iew-flip3d.jpg
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post #11 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:46am
How on earth is Flip3D better than Exposé?

Sure, it's a snazzy effect, but it's just a plain inferior window management system. You have keep hitting tab (can you select a window by mousing over?) and can't see the windows contents. It's painfully clear that MS felt limited to what they could do because of the appearance of ripping off Exposé (or at least until Vista SP2).

If you're looking for snazzy effects, I assure you Leopard will have them in spades.

But I'm looking for genuinely innovative UI features. That ain't Flip3D.

(OTOH, Vista's updated alt-tab looks pretty nice.)
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post #12 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:46am
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
When you alt-tab (Win equivalent of CMD-tab on a mac) in Vista, it cycles through the windows in a 3D view.

No practical REASON for this, and it KILLS your graphics card,

Yeah, no kidding.

Quote:
but hey- same with the Genie effect and we all LOVE that....

But Genie doesn't cause any harm either. This flip 3d busines seems incredibly stupid with all the windows piled up on top of one another. I *hope* they at least have the capability of choosing any of the windows with the mouse and not forcing to cycle through them all like the current alt-tab. grrrr...

As far as 3d eye-candy goes, the "user-switch" cube in OS X is nice and effective in conveying the idea of changing users, for example. In other words its not just fancy eye-candy, it helps to make the os a more intuitive experience.
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post #13 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:47am
  • Kickaha
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Actually, the Genie Effect *does* have a practical reason - it shows the user precisely where the window is going. That's highly useful for keeping user's from panicking when their window disappears. "OMG! I closed it!" "No, it's down there on the Dock now, see?" -> "Oh, it slid down there into the Dock."
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post #14 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:52am
Thread Starter 
That's true, I've never experienced OSX with Quartz Extreme, so I can't do a great comparison of this...

I've got an iBook G3 366, which obviously has no Quartz Extreme, so I don't get the Cube, or the "Plop" when you stick stuff on the Dashboard....

And on MY system the Genie is sort of blocky and slow, and yes I changed it to Suck, which helped, and yes the 3D stuff is worse and requires much more power but you HAVE TO ADMIT:

that would be SO FUN to show off...

"OO! Look what my OS can do!"

"w00t. I, a n00b, bow before you..."

Although you guys may have a point that OSX can do it better with QE....
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post #15 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
That's true, I've never experienced OSX with Quartz Extreme, so I can't do a great comparison of this...

I've got an iBook G3 366, which obviously has no Quartz Extreme, so I don't get the Cube, or the "Plop" when you stick stuff on the Dashboard....

And on MY system the Genie is sort of blocky and slow, and yes I changed it to Suck, which helped, and yes the 3D stuff is worse and requires much more power but you HAVE TO ADMIT:

that would be SO FUN to show off...

"OO! Look what my OS can do!"

"w00t. I, a n00b, bow before you..."

Although you guys may have a point that OSX can do it better with QE....

Yeah, it's true what Kickaha says about Genie effect (although the press Shift to slow it down thing is pretty show-offy )

On a side note, and not to derail the thread, I don't have 'Plop" effect either?? I had been under the impression that that was shown at the preview of Tiger but not in the final version. Or is that something that is turned on somewhere? (Maybe they got rid of it because it didn't really serve any purpose?)
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post #16 of 79
7/31/06 at 10:59am
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
I've got an iBook G3 366, which obviously has no Quartz Extreme, so I don't get the Cube, or the "Plop" when you stick stuff on the Dashboard....

And on MY system the Genie is sort of blocky and slow, and yes I changed it to Suck, which helped, and yes the 3D stuff is worse and requires much more power...

I think you have been drooling over the prospect of using a faster computer as much as anything Vista could do.

Seriously, I'll be quite surprised if Apple doesn't have some spectacular cards up its sleeve for Leopard. A number of the UI elements in OS X are five years old now, and they've been preparing for Vista for some time.
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post #17 of 79
7/31/06 at 11:06am
Quote:
Originally posted by meelash
Yeah, it's true what Kickaha says about Genie effect (although the press Shift to slow it down thing is pretty show-offy )

On a side note, and not to derail the thread, I don't have 'Plop" effect either?? I had been under the impression that that was shown at the preview of Tiger but not in the final version. Or is that something that is turned on somewhere? (Maybe they got rid of it because it didn't really serve any purpose?)

hmm... looks like I don't have the required graphics card. Well, that's something to look forward to when I buy my new iMac. (I do have the cube transition, though?)
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post #18 of 79
7/31/06 at 1:11pm
Quote:
Originally posted by meelash
, they have system wide speech recognition!

yeah, they *almost* have it

http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...221217782777472
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post #19 of 79
7/31/06 at 1:12pm
Thread Starter 
IGGA.

Hobbes, you are right....

I need (NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED) a macbook, but being a student, I cannot of course, afford one.



Oh well....

Vista is neat, but somehow it just has that "Windoze" feel when you're using it. That clunky, mish-mash feel. Whereas OSX just "feels" slicker and more like a finished product. I can't really explain this any better... Do you guys know what I mean?

Yeah I can't WAIT to see what Apple will do with the new Power Mac. Core 2 Extreme is the BEST processor EVER made!!!
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post #20 of 79
7/31/06 at 1:44pm
Dude, do yourself a favor work at walmart on the weekend for a few weekends and buy yourself a macbook.

I bet Vista is going to have a massive amount of problems. Sort of like XP did for...years. Or 95. Or 98. Haha, or ME.
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post #21 of 79
7/31/06 at 1:48pm
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite


I must say, Vista (while a complete ripoff of OSX...) is by FAR the hugest and best Windows update since Win95. It has even ME drooling over PCs for the first time in YEARS.

Anybody have any thoughts on Vista vs Leopard? Vista's resolution independence is NICE.. And it is WAY good-looking (for Windows) even compared to OSX. Plus getting a Vista system is much cheaper than buying a new Mac...

Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
IGGA.

Hobbes, you are right....

I need (NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED) a macbook, but being a student, I cannot of course, afford one.



Oh well....

Vista is neat, but somehow it just has that "Windoze" feel when you're using it. That clunky, mish-mash feel. Whereas OSX just "feels" slicker and more like a finished product. I can't really explain this any better... Do you guys know what I mean?

Yeah I can't WAIT to see what Apple will do with the new Power Mac. Core 2 Extreme is the BEST processor EVER made!!!

It all comes in a full circle...

This thread kinda reminds me of those Mormon pamphlets you get outside of the grocery store.
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post #22 of 79
7/31/06 at 2:29pm
Thread Starter 
Well no when I say student I mean I'm thirteen.

So I can't just "work at Wal-mart." If I could I would, believe me.

Yup Windows ALWAYS has problems. Just thirty seconds ago someone in the pooter lab with me here got a Blue Screen of Death. Case in point.
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post #23 of 79
7/31/06 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally posted by turnwrite
Well no when I say student I mean I'm thirteen.

So I can't just "work at Wal-mart." If I could I would, believe me.

Yup Windows ALWAYS has problems. Just thirty seconds ago someone in the pooter lab with me here got a Blue Screen of Death. Case in point.

You could ask mom to buy you one for christmas, then?
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post #24 of 79
7/31/06 at 2:41pm
Thread Starter 
Actually, I tried that...

I've been BEGGING "mom" to buy me one since the DAY they came out but she just says "well you already have a laptop, dear......."

Ugh.

I have one, but it is CRAP!!!
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post #25 of 79
7/31/06 at 3:14pm
Oh my, I just saw the kind of computer you like too look at on the other thread and now just read that you actually LIKE how vista looks
I think you will develop your sense of style further in these coming years, I mean, you really can only go up from here
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post #26 of 79
7/31/06 at 3:18pm
Thread Starter 
Well dutch pear, I'm just saying it's true that Vista looks cool, and so does the Alienware Sentia.

However, the reason I'm HERE is cuz I'm a mac user.

Macbooks are cooler than Alienware notebooks (If I only HAD one..... Grr....) and OSX is WAY cooler than Vista.

But I must commend Microsoft on one MAJORLY well done ripoff.
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post #27 of 79
7/31/06 at 9:34pm
A great while back, Apple told MS to start their copiers. This began the setting of one of the biggest bear traps ever.

MS will be using a 5 year old Apple GUI in Vista while Apple moves on in Leopard. And adding to the insult, MS won't even deliver half of their pillars of Vista.

Gates is getting out just in time.

PS. Get a faster mac. That drool for Vista will dry right up.
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post #28 of 79
8/1/06 at 2:00am
Quote:
Originally posted by Kickaha
Actually, the Genie Effect *does* have a practical reason - it shows the user precisely where the window is going. That's highly useful for keeping user's from panicking when their window disappears.
...

You nailed it. I just can't remember *any* so called eye candy
UI finish in MacOs, that has no compelling practical reason, too.

Now to a completely random collection of fine UI effects, which have a strong
function in daily usage, too:

1. genie --> tells you, where the file is gone
2. opening a doc (accompanied with briefly displaying the associated
icon of the app) --> tells you which app is going to be involved
3. magnifying dock items --> tells you, which item is going to be used,
IF you click right now.
4. FUS cube effect --> tells you, that another user is now active,
but the former user is still active, just somewhere on the other
side (of the system, if you don't mind)
5. Exposé (all kind of) --> well, ...i refuse to illustrate again, dude.
6. slow motion genie --> tells you, where the file is gone slowly.
Which has a practical reason too, say, enjoy the beauty of Exposé

This is just off top of my head, feel free to add some more...
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post #29 of 79
8/1/06 at 8:33am
Thread Starter 
Well you guys look at the screenshots of Leopard here, some very interesting ideas (not to mention good photoshopping...)

http://phillryu.com/2006/07/26/fake-...he-real-thing/

I really like this idea of a new Finder based more on Spotlight than on folders.

I think Leopard needs some new feature that no one has really thought about too, though. Like Panther had Expose, Tiger had Dashboard, and I wonder what Leopard will bring?
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post #30 of 79
8/4/06 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Macs rock, we all know it, that's why we're here.

But I must say, Vista (while a complete ripoff of OSX...) is by FAR the hugest and best Windows update since Win95. It has even ME drooling over PCs for the first time in YEARS.

Anybody have any thoughts on Vista vs Leopard? Vista's resolution independence is NICE.. And it is WAY good-looking (for Windows) even compared to OSX. Plus getting a Vista system is much cheaper than buying a new Mac...

Here are some articles on Vista's features:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_vista

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...s/default.mspx


I have to agree with you. What's with the "sidebar" and "gadgets"? They didn't even try to think up a good name to disguise the fact that it's a complete copy of dashboard. The "3D flip" or whatever it's called is basically expose except with a dumb microsoft touch.
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post #31 of 79
8/4/06 at 7:06pm
I have:

A MacBook
An Intel 20" Core Duo iMac

A 3.06HT PC with 2GB of Ram, an ATI 9800 AIW and a Sound Blaster Audigy 2ZS with a Gateway 20" Widescreen Monitor.

I have OS X 10.4.7

I have Windows Vista Beta 2.

There is no comparison - what you're referring to as a "majorly well done rip off" is a poorly hacked together jumble of UI bits, poorly thought out concepts and "me too!" features.

Flip3D aliases - badly. It's got the worst case of the jaggies since the first Playstation.

The "Gadgets" are slow running, processor gobbling also-rans.

I've looked high and low for a Journaled, quick finding WinFS file system, but there's nary one to be found.

In the control panel there are no less than 5 seperate UI schemes - some of them dating back to Windows 9X (and you thought it was horrible to find a little pinstriping in an app now and again).



You can see that there's been a mighty effort put forth - however, it's a set of individual miniscule efforts that add up, instead of a unified group working towards a goal; quite simply put: The Microsoft desire to be Everything to Everyone has been so detrimental to the development of Vista that this may be the first outright failure of a Windows system since 2.0.

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post #32 of 79
8/4/06 at 7:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Well no when I say student I mean I'm thirteen.

So I can't just "work at Wal-mart." If I could I would, believe me.

Wal-Mart is the root of all EVIL!!!!!!
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post #33 of 79
8/4/06 at 7:13pm
Personally I don't think Vista catches Tiger let alone Leopard. Leopard is in a whole new class that Vista wont even compare to. As I said. Tiger already has almost every one of the features that are not currently present in windows. MS is just now barely catching the OS we are about to leave. Talk about being late to party. They freaking missed it. I'm sure windows users that know nothing about Mac OS will think it's all gravy, but it's really like moldy gravy.
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post #34 of 79
8/4/06 at 7:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

I'm sure windows users that know nothing about Mac OS will think it's all gravy, but it's really like moldy gravy.

Such a Wonderful line!
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post #35 of 79
8/4/06 at 7:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

Personally I don't think Vista catches Tiger let alone Leopard. Leopard is in a whole new class that Vista wont even compare to. As I said. Tiger already has almost every one of the features that are not currently present in windows. MS is just now barely catching the OS we are about to leave. Talk about being late to party. They freaking missed it. I'm sure windows users that know nothing about Mac OS will think it's all gravy, but it's really like moldy gravy.

Crust and moldy...

Hey that could be a theme.....
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post #36 of 79
8/4/06 at 8:30pm
All bets are off until Vista actually ships. Sure, they haven't announced a delay in 3 months or so, but I'm not holding my breath. There are poeple in Vista development at Microsoft that are very skeptical about the current ship date, and even some curmudgeons who don't think it'll EVER ship.

I'll bet 30 sand dollars that OS X 10.5 beats it to market by 3-6 months.

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post #37 of 79
8/4/06 at 9:23pm
I don't know about 3-6 months. But Leopard will beat the consumer edition to market. MS has to ship something to a bunch of companies they have SA contracts with this year. They made contracts for support and upgrades from like 2003 to 2006 that included a boost to MS SQL, something else, and Vista. So they HAVE to ship something to those companies by Close of Business Dec. 29th (31st is a Sunday) Which means they'll claim Vista launched in November, regardless of when it's on shelves.
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post #38 of 79
8/4/06 at 9:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Blah, blah, blahVista
Blah, blah, blahVista
Blah, blah, blahVista
Blah, blah, blahVista

Hey jackass, notice the name of this site?!?

It's AppleInsider, not VistaInsider, so keep moving

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post #39 of 79
8/4/06 at 9:57pm
Quote:
For the rest of the faithful, the day is close at hand when our fearless leader will step to the pulpit and bath us all in the warming bath of the RDF, delivering the prophecies of the year to come for the true believers of the Power of the Mac Way…!

Quote:
Hey jackass

Somehow, it fits...
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post #40 of 79
8/4/06 at 10:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gene Clean

Somehow, it fits...

What you talking about Willis…?

The first two lines of my post were truth, since this is indeed a Mac-centric site, so why would we even want to entertain a discourse comparing Vista with Leopard…?!?

The last 'cult member' portion was pure Temp. Insanity goodness…

Lighten up…

;^p
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