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Apple joins dynamic media consortium

post #1 of 28
7/31/06 at 1:19pm
Thread Starter 
Apple Computer is one of the latest industry heavyweights to become a member of the Khronos Group, a band of technology corporations focused on defining open standards for the authoring and acceleration of dynamic media on platforms such as mobile phones, the group said on Monday.

Other companies who enlisted as members alongside Apple include Acrodea, DAZ3D, Dell, Google, Gremedy, Codeplay, and S3 Graphics.

Khronos Group members work together to define open standards for the authoring and acceleration of dynamic media on platforms ranging from embedded systems such as mobile phones to high-performance desktop and workstation systems.

Word of Apple's enrollment in the group comes at a time when there are an increasing number of reports that company may be on the verge of entering the mobile phone market with an iPod-branded handset and associated wireless service.

Also on Monday, Khronos Group announced that the OpenGL Architecture Review Board has elected to turn over control of the OpenGL standard to Khronos.

OpenGL is the most widely adopted environment for developing portable, interactive 2D and 3D graphics applications and has been an instrumental component of Apple Mac OS X operating system over the years.

"Khronos has been leading the charge in media standards for the mobile industry for over four years, and now with this increased membership and the integration of the OpenGL ARB, Khronos has truly become the place to be if your company has any interest in open standards for dynamic media and graphics on any platform," said Dr. Jon Peddie, president of the Tiburon CA based market research firm Jon Peddie Research.

"The lines continue to blur between different classes of devices -- and so it is crucial to have a single body that is able to drive a coherent set of cross-platform standards to create new market opportunities for the entire graphics and media industry," Peddie added.

Any interested company may join the Khronos Group for a $5,000 yearly membership fee.

Other notable members of the group include ARM, ATI, BenQ, Broadcom, Epson, Ericsson, Fujitsu, Intel, LG, Motorola, Nokia, Nvidia, Panasonic, Philips, Qualcomm, Samsung, SGI, Sony and Toshiba.
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post #2 of 28
7/31/06 at 1:21pm
Meh... still smarting from the Apple forums decision. \

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post #3 of 28
7/31/06 at 1:27pm
I hope they don't over-mine Praxis...

(Buh-doom CHING)
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post #4 of 28
7/31/06 at 1:41pm
The article doesn't begin to give a good idea of just who belongs to this group. It is a good crosssection of the telecommunications, and computer industries.

Guess who ISN'T a member?

http://www.khronos.org/
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post #5 of 28
7/31/06 at 1:59pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The article doesn't begin to give a good idea of just who belongs to this group. It is a good crosssection of the telecommunications, and computer industries.

Guess who ISN'T a member?

http://www.khronos.org/

Who?

I agree, with your observation, by the way, the companies it named don't even make phones...
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post #6 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The article doesn't begin to give a good idea of just who belongs to this group. It is a good crosssection of the telecommunications, and computer industries.

Guess who ISN'T a member?

http://www.khronos.org/


Me. I just couldn't find the $5,000 to join.


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post #7 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:13pm
Quote:
Originally posted by TednDi
Me. I just couldn't find the $5,000 to join.



$1,000 for academic memberships, but I doubt it applies to individuals anyway. Even if you were interested.

I meant something a bit more substantial.
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post #8 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:18pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Guartho
I hope they don't over-mine Praxis...

(Buh-doom CHING)

Are you performing every night this week at Quark's?
"I'm learning how to meditate, so far so good."
Donald Fagen and Walter Becker
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"I'm learning how to meditate, so far so good."
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post #9 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The article doesn't begin to give a good idea of just who belongs to this group. It is a good crosssection of the telecommunications, and computer industries.

Guess who ISN'T a member?

http://www.khronos.org/

It does now. Updated

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post #10 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
$1,000 for academic memberships, but I doubt it applies to individuals anyway. Even if you were interested.

I meant something a bit more substantial.

You don't mean MS do you? Wonder why they would be against this group? Maybe they don't like open anything.*shrugs shoulders*
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post #11 of 28
7/31/06 at 2:52pm
Quote:
Originally posted by backtomac
You don't mean MS do you? Wonder why they would be against this group? Maybe they don't like open anything.*shrugs shoulders*

Well, I was wondering when someone would come up with that. You didn't peek first, did you?

MS is about the only company that could slow down, or even cripple this sort of thing. Damn right it isn't in their interests.
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post #12 of 28
7/31/06 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally posted by meelash
Who?

I agree, with your observation, by the way, the companies it named don't even make phones...

Traditionally those who make phones aren't interested in open standards anyway. But Moto is changing, and slowly also Nokia. It's a little like if Microsoft suddenly decided to support OpenGL instead of Direct X.

But it DOES imply that Apple is interested in taking part in the future of the mobile world I guess.
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post #13 of 28
7/31/06 at 3:35pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Well, I was wondering when someone would come up with that. You didn't peek first, did you?

MS is about the only company that could slow down, or even cripple this sort of thing. Damn right it isn't in their interests.

MS not being on the board is the least surprising or even important fact. I would sooner expect Rush Limbaugh to be on the board of NOW.

I'm glad to see OpenGL getting more love. I wonder how scalable it is compared to DirectX and MS stuff. Does anyone know what the technical interactions might be among OpenGL, H265 and QTime? I'm sure hoping Apple has been biding its time with the recent slower development of QT and that this WWDC, Steve outlines an entire media delivery plan for video that connects all of the dots that Apple has been carefully placing.

I also hope OpenGL runs faster on Mactel, than DirectX runs on Windows. It cracks me up to read unbiased, pro-pc websites show how much faster Vista runs on Mactels than on Dells ...

With MS pissing off RealNetworks and other "partners" with Zune, Apple may be able to own the open standards community and create more defacto standards based on technology that will work best with OSX and QT and the iPod and whatever other media devices it and Intel have been skunk working.

Adobe with Flash and its growing multimedia interoperability would be the third head of the triumvirate. I wonder who they feel is the greater threat: MS or Apple? If Apple can help close the media loops and tidy up the loose threads, they may be able to guide Adobe's development along their lines rather than those of MS. What large innovative company would want to be tied to WindowsMedia/Vista stuff? Sure the huge installed base has made it easier to hit lots of people, but with a lame Vista, there may be more money to be had in open source avenues. That way Khronos as a group could outcompete Microsoft as a corporation for standards.

I didn't check the site, but the companies I want to see on the board are innovative hardware companies and ones like Real and Palm who have been beaten down, but are looking to find new life. (PS Real and Palm don't hurt Apple, they slow down MS.)

edited for grammer
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post #14 of 28
7/31/06 at 5:28pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
MS not being on the board is the least surprising or even important fact. I would sooner expect Rush Limbaugh to be on the board of NOW.

I'm glad to see OpenGL getting more love. I wonder how scalable it is compared to DirectX and MS stuff. Does anyone know what the technical interactions might be among OpenGL, H265 and QTime? I'm sure hoping Apple has been biding its time with the recent slower development of QT and that this WWDC, Steve outlines an entire media delivery plan for video that connects all of the dots that Apple has been carefully placing.

I also hope OpenGL runs faster on Mactel, than DirectX runs on Windows. It cracks me up to read unbiased, pro-pc websites show how much faster Vista runs on Mactels than on Dells ...

With MS pissing off RealNetworks and other "partners" with Zune, Apple may be able to own the open standards community and create more defacto standards based on technology that will work best with OSX and QT and the iPod and whatever other media devices it and Intel have been skunk working.

Adobe with Flash and its growing multimedia interoperability would be the third head of the triumvirate. I wonder who they feel is the greater threat: MS or Apple? If Apple can help close the media loops and tidy up the loose threads, they may be able to guide Adobe's development along their lines rather than those of MS. What large innovative company would want to be tied to WindowsMedia/Vista stuff? Sure the huge installed base has made it easier to hit lots of people, but with a lame Vista, there may be more money to be had in open source avenues. That way Khronos as a group could outcompete Microsoft as a corporation for standards.

I didn't check the site, but the companies I want to see on the board are innovative hardware companies and ones like Real and Palm who have been beaten down, but are looking to find new life. (PS Real and Palm don't hurt Apple, they slow down MS.)

edited for grammer

Oh, you shouldn't be surprised that MS is not there. But you are wrong to think that it won't make a difference.

This seems to be a realization that they have lost ground with OpernGL, and that hopefully Khronos will be able to do something with it.

MS has the power to blunt almost any standard that they are concerned about. OpenGL was once THE low level graphics standard. No longer. Direct X has begun to creep past the game industry. OpenGl is fighting a rearward action. It may not seem that way yet to some, but it is clearly happening.

Direct X is more sophisticated than OpenGL is. Apple's old 3D technology was better too, but it was too little, too late for Apple. MS is not in that situation. MS moves OpenGL a layer back in Vista, and down goes performance.

Sadly, third party software houses have no choice but to go along.. Apple and Linux don't comprise a large enough market to stop it.

At some point we might see CAD and 3D being done on Direct X in a big way.
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post #15 of 28
7/31/06 at 8:47pm
This is excellent news.
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post #16 of 28
7/31/06 at 8:49pm
Regarding CAD and 3D I doubt Apple will sit around and let this area forever languish hoping Autodesk will port its tools to OS X natively.

Apple has addressed shortcomings in market segments previous held by others who were slow to move by developing their own solutions.
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post #17 of 28
7/31/06 at 10:02pm
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
Oh, you shouldn't be surprised that MS is not there. But you are wrong to think that it won't make a difference.

This seems to be a realization that they have lost ground with OpernGL, and that hopefully Khronos will be able to do something with it.

MS has the power to blunt almost any standard that they are concerned about. OpenGL was once THE low level graphics standard. No longer. Direct X has begun to creep past the game industry. OpenGl is fighting a rearward action. It may not seem that way yet to some, but it is clearly happening.

Oh I think you are right about DirectX passing OpenGL, but my point is that this is one place in which a REAL CONSORTIUM of mega developers (from Adobe, to Apple, to Sony) might be able to put up a fight and if MS drops OpenGL to a lower layer in Windows, they might suffer just enough. OpenGL needs to grow and it is an important place to fight, a place worth putting up a fight.

Why? Because Microsoft's market share isn't growing anymore. It has hit its limit and if Vista is slow, it will be vulnerable.
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post #18 of 28
7/31/06 at 11:44pm
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Regarding CAD and 3D I doubt Apple will sit around and let this area forever languish hoping Autodesk will port its tools to OS X natively.

Apple has addressed shortcomings in market segments previous held by others who were slow to move by developing their own solutions.

CAD in Europe is much more popular on Mac's than it is here. In that case, it's all about sales potental. Autodesk isn't the only fish in the sea.

But, as Direct X continues to get more and more sophisticated, it is becoming a pretty good system (as much as I hate to say it). Open GL is well behind at this point. Much of what Direct X does, has to be done by the programmer in Open GL.
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post #19 of 28
7/31/06 at 11:53pm
Quote:
Originally posted by MacGregor
Oh I think you are right about DirectX passing OpenGL, but my point is that this is one place in which a REAL CONSORTIUM of mega developers (from Adobe, to Apple, to Sony) might be able to put up a fight and if MS drops OpenGL to a lower layer in Windows, they might suffer just enough. OpenGL needs to grow and it is an important place to fight, a place worth putting up a fight.

Why? Because Microsoft's market share isn't growing anymore. It has hit its limit and if Vista is slow, it will be vulnerable.

Ok. A couple, or so, of points. Do you really think that this rather large consortium of disparazte companies can actually settle on standards on something a complex as a 3D graphics subsystem? Do you think that Direct X is standing still? Ity's one thing that MS upgrades much faster than its OS. Shader four is here. Direct X is now ver 10. In a year or so, we will see 11, etc. It's always easier for a large company that can ensure that its standards will be used simply because they are on every machine.

I can see the same problems here that we saw with CD and DVD recordings, and now hi def.

We didn't have that with the original CD players because Sony and Phillips owned the format, and everyone else just had to accept it.

MS is Netscaping Open GL. Just like .net circled Java.

MS's marketshare doesn't have to increase. It hasn't for almost a decade. At least not in any significant way, other than for Workstations, and that battle is almost won.

MS increases its business every year by 9 to 15% by the PC market growing. That's pretty good in itself.
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post #20 of 28
8/1/06 at 7:39am
I'm still pissed at SGI for selling the bulk of it's OpenGL patents to Microsoft for a measly 62 million. What were they thinking.
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post #21 of 28
8/1/06 at 7:51am
Quote:
Originally posted by mdriftmeyer
Regarding CAD and 3D I doubt Apple will sit around and let this area forever languish hoping Autodesk will port its tools to OS X natively.

Apple has addressed shortcomings in market segments previous held by others who were slow to move by developing their own solutions.

Autodesk recently acquired Alias(developer of Maya)
30% of Maya's North American sales are for Mac OS X licenses.
20% of Maya's global sales are for Mac OS X licenses.

Hope fully they are seeing the sales figures and realising how much pent up demand there is for high end 3D and CAD software for the Mac.
With the acquisition of Alias, Autodesk has also picked up many experienced programmers who could certainly help in porting AutoCad back to the Mac.

Don't expect Apple iCad any time soon.
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post #22 of 28
8/1/06 at 10:20am
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Mozzarella
I'm still pissed at SGI for selling the bulk of it's OpenGL patents to Microsoft for a measly 62 million. What were they thinking.

They desperately needed the money?
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post #23 of 28
8/1/06 at 10:33am
Quote:
Originally posted by Johnny Mozzarella
Autodesk recently acquired Alias(developer of Maya)
30% of Maya's North American sales are for Mac OS X licenses.
20% of Maya's global sales are for Mac OS X licenses.

Hope fully they are seeing the sales figures and realising how much pent up demand there is for high end 3D and CAD software for the Mac.
With the acquisition of Alias, Autodesk has also picked up many experienced programmers who could certainly help in porting AutoCad back to the Mac.

Don't expect Apple iCad any time soon.


It would be a wonderful time for Apple to acquire one of the top CAD companies and follow the route blazed by their Shake, Logic and Final Cut products, in that by securing the highest-end products used by the people who actually create, and democratizing those products, they could enlist additional current and future Apple professionals and really sway the investments of larger IT departments to Apple's benefit. I'm not sure if Autodesk is the biggest of the big (or the best of the best, for that matter).

Additionally, Apple could really start to get ahead of the curve on custom fabrication. This manufacturing trend may lead, one day, to nano-fabs on everyone's desktop that would be capable of "printing" replacement parts and consumer products. This is really happening now, and it seems like the Apple Thing To Do.

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post #24 of 28
8/2/06 at 6:11am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
They desperately needed the money?

Yea but given Apple and Sun seem to be on more than just casual speaking terms and the fact that Apple (at the time of the sale) still have BILLIONS++ in the bank you'd think Apple could have or would have wanted to make a bid of it's own for those patents. Would an offer of 75 or 100M killed Stevie Boy?

Dave
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post #25 of 28
8/2/06 at 9:11am
SGI ? Sun
OMG GROVE RAT'S A KILLJOY OMG!
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post #26 of 28
8/2/06 at 10:36am
Quote:
Originally posted by melgross
The article doesn't begin to give a good idea of just who belongs to this group. It is a good crosssection of the telecommunications, and computer industries.

Guess who ISN'T a member?

Microsoft :P
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post #27 of 28
8/2/06 at 9:11pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveGee

Yea but given Apple and Sun seem to be on more than just casual speaking terms and the fact that Apple (at the time of the sale) still have BILLIONS++ in the bank you'd think Apple could have or would have wanted to make a bid of it's own for those patents. Would an offer of 75 or 100M killed Stevie Boy?

Dave

What does Sun have to do with the fact that SGI sold some of the rights to OpenGL code to MS?

As to Apple, they would have had to want to buy it. Apple is notoriously cheap. They spend a very few tens of millions for whole companies. They invested $100 million in LG's LCD panel manufacturing, but that's different.
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post #28 of 28
8/2/06 at 9:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

It would be a wonderful time for Apple to acquire one of the top CAD companies and follow the route blazed by their Shake, Logic and Final Cut products, in that by securing the highest-end products used by the people who actually create, and democratizing those products, they could enlist additional current and future Apple professionals and really sway the investments of larger IT departments to Apple's benefit. I'm not sure if Autodesk is the biggest of the big (or the best of the best, for that matter).

Additionally, Apple could really start to get ahead of the curve on custom fabrication. This manufacturing trend may lead, one day, to nano-fabs on everyone's desktop that would be capable of "printing" replacement parts and consumer products. This is really happening now, and it seems like the Apple Thing To Do.

Which company would you suggest/

Archicad is the only real competitor in the high end space. They are more popular in Europe than here. That's the only company that would make sense.

But if Apple does buy them, or any realistic competitor to AutoCad, what would happen to Maya and the other programs?
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