or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple unveils quad-core 64-bit Mac Pro desktops
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Apple unveils quad-core 64-bit Mac Pro desktops - Page 3

post #81 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

And Quadros aren't for speed so much as accuracy and quality control. Overall, they're pretty similar to the gaming cards, except in those areas, at least as far as I've been told. If you check the http://"http://www.apple.com/macpro/... mac pro chart, you see that Quadros don't blow the x1900xt out of the water performance wise. Weaker bandwidth, fewer vertices, higher fillrate

Does Core Image run faster on a high bandwidth and high vertex card, or does it run faster on a high fill rate card? Would Core Image take advantage of multiple GPUs?
post #82 of 124
The previous Power Mac G5 came with the Geforce 6600 as the stock card. The new Mac Pro has the Geforce 7300 as the stock card. How does the 7300 compare to the 6600?
post #83 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by alternativepiano

If they arlready have the chips, how come they havent gone to core 2 duo yet?

Woodcrest works in dual chip configurations. Conroe aka Core 2 Duo does not.
post #84 of 124
I know little about Core Image. I can't comment on it's performance on a Quadro versus a X1900XT. All I'm saying is that a Quadro is not a huge performance boost over a X1900XT - at least not stat-wise/spec-wise.

And I don't deny that 7300s kind of smell bad. But Apple's figuring that graphics guys would get the gaming card or pro card anyways. Honestly, I was planning on it, even when I expect a 7600GT.

I'm not saying I like the 7300, I'm saying don't let it be a deal-breaker. And Core Image Photobooth is real-time on my sister's GMA 950, so I'm sure it'll run fine on either the X1900XT or the Quadro, and probably OK on the 7300 - which is way better than a GMA950
post #85 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

Woodcrest works in dual chip configurations. Conroe aka Core 2 does not.

You misunderstand him. He didn't mean why don't all the Mac Pros use Conroe, he meant if Apple wanted a Conroe tower out there, why didn't it release it now.

I'd say for either of two reasons:

1) The spotlight's pretty full with Leopard and Mac Pro right now, whereas an xMac has the stage to itself at some other event
2) Apple wants immediate shipping, and current Conroe levels could make that hard, especially if iMacs are also Conroe.
post #86 of 124
Will standard PC graphics cards work in this new Mac?
post #87 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

You misunderstand him. He didn't mean why don't all the Mac Pros use Conroe, he meant if Apple wanted a Conroe tower out there, why didn't it release it now.

I'd say for either of two reasons:

1) The spotlight's pretty full with Leopard and Mac Pro right now, whereas an xMac has the stage to itself at some other event
2) Apple wants immediate shipping, and current Conroe levels could make that hard, especially if iMacs are also Conroe.

If there is just a "Mac" coming, it makes sense that Apple release it after the "Mac Pro." Releasing two new towers would cannibalize sales of the higher end model.

Macbook Pro came several months before MacBook.
post #88 of 124
I love the new mac Pro, finally a kick ass gaming machine that is a mac!
I setup a nice configuration at the UK Apple Store and boom £2,229 ( $4,248 )
and this is too much for poor me. Just to twist the knifethe same configuration
at the US Apple Store is $3,228.

So how do I get a green card?

:0)
post #89 of 124
ok, bit of a late post as i was watchin keynote re-runs til L8 yesterday, but before the SLI doubt sets in for good here:

Quad across the line !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
4 HD bays, 2 x optical !!!!!!!
*all one mobo, 1GB RAM standard !!!

...from just over $2000 (Quad 2GHz + 160GB HD).... !!!!!!!
...2.66GHz Quad @$2500 (down from $3300 for Quad 2.5)... !!!!!
...3GHz @ last, & in a Quad at $3300 (again, old Quad 2.5 price...) !!!!!!!!!

ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) *JUST* Add $350... !!!

PowerMac just got BUMPED to Pro and THIS IS A WORKSTATION, across the board...


Thankyou, thankyou, thankyou Apple, for LISTENING (at last) !!!!!!!
Exactly what we want for the Pro environment a sweetly priced, strong, well expandable machine and plenty BTO!!! 8)

*not to mention some really sensible production decisions...
post #90 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

The previous Power Mac G5 came with the Geforce 6600 as the stock card. The new Mac Pro has the Geforce 7300 as the stock card. How does the 7300 compare to the 6600?

Here's a comparison of the two editions of the 6600 vs. the 7300GT:

Memory:
Gf 6600 LE = 128MB GDDR SDRAM
Gf 6600 = 256MB GDDR SDRAM
Gf 7300GT = 256MB GDDR2 SDRAM

Memory bandwidth:
Gf 6600 LE = 6.4 GBps\t
Gf 6600 = 8 GBps
Gf 7300GT = 10.7 GBps

Vertices per second:
Gf 6600 LE = 225m
Gf 6600 = 225m
Gf 7300GT = 350m

Fill rate:
Gf 6600 LE = 1.2 billion
Gf 6600 = 2.4 billion
Gf 7300GT = 2.8 billion

So, as you can see the 7300GT is better than the 6600s, especially the 6600 LE previously found in the "low end" PM G5
post #91 of 124
GREAT! About time! I'd buy one TODAY... but (and this is a BIG BUT) what about Adobe Universals? I'm not spending $3g's on a new Mac UNTIL Adobe Universals are available. I think most graphic specialists would agree with me. Why upgrade now when Adobe has yet to do so. There could be significant upgrades to the line between now and then!
post #92 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR

GREAT! About time! I'd buy one TODAY... but (and this is a BIG BUT) what about Adobe Universals? I'm not spending $3g's on a new Mac UNTIL Adobe Universals are available. I think most graphic specialists would agree with me. Why upgrade now when Adobe has yet to do so. There could be significant upgrades to the line between now and then!

It might depend on what you currently have and how badly you need an upgrade. When emulated, I would expect that it is better than any G4-based unit and any 1P G5. How well it can exceed a Dual or Quad G5 for the remaining non-Universal app is a valid question. I would expect MacWorld magazine to put up benchmarks on their site in the next few days. If you absolutely need a PPC upgrade, then you'd probably want to consider the Apple Certified Refurbished units, though they haven't dropped the prices on those yet. Apple stores might be clearancing the remaining new stock.
post #93 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

Does Core Image run faster on a high bandwidth and high vertex card, or does it run faster on a high fill rate card? Would Core Image take advantage of multiple GPUs?

I think it has to do with the one with the best shader support, which is probably going to mean the high fill rate card? Could somebody confirm/disprove this?
post #94 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BEatMaKeR

GREAT! About time! I'd buy one TODAY... but (and this is a BIG BUT) what about Adobe Universals? I'm not spending $3g's on a new Mac UNTIL Adobe Universals are available. I think most graphic specialists would agree with me. Why upgrade now when Adobe has yet to do so. There could be significant upgrades to the line between now and then!

As much as I love the new Mac Pros, I'm waiting for Adobe to get it in gear also. Won't buy any new systems for work 'til then. \

OTOH, I just might spring for the iMac for home-fun stuff.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #95 of 124
There is one thing about the Mac Pro that I really don't appreciate - No IR remote. HELLO?! Apple is going to ship Front Row with Leopard -- don't you think it would be nice to ship a IR remote and reciever with the PowerMac?

Airport and Bluetooth could be includded. But then again if I'm going to pay upwards of 2000 dollars for a computer, why not pitch in another $80 for bluetooth and wireless?

I can understand why no iSight though. Where ya gonna put it?

Some might say, its a Pro Mac -- for Pro stuff, but why can't you mix business and pleasure. Espessially if you work out of your home.
post #96 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by icfireball

There is one thing about the Mac Pro that I really don't appreciate - No IR remote. HELLO?! Apple is going to ship Front Row with Leopard -- don't you think it would be nice to ship a IR remote and reciever with the PowerMac?

Airport and Bluetooth could be includded. But then again if I'm going to pay upwards of 2000 dollars for a computer, why not pitch in another $80 for bluetooth and wireless?

I can understand why no iSight though. Where ya gonna put it?

Some might say, its a Pro Mac -- for Pro stuff, but why can't you mix business and pleasure. Espessially if you work out of your home.

I think there might be a difficulty with that, the IR reciever base would need to be a separate module for a lot of people. At different times, I have kept my PowerMac on the floor, on the desk or on a high shelf, depending on the space, but then, I did it for the heat and noise considerations which have hopefully been reduced as claimed with the Mac Pro.

I do agree there should be one offered but I understand why it wasn't included. I kind of expected that the cinema displays would have cameras built into them, but then, given their size, it would need some sort of adjustability anyways because of the size of the displays. I haven't tried one, but I can imagine the separate iSights having better picture quality, having a much bigger lens and all.

Is the IR reciever on some of the Apple brand iPod docks compatible, or does that just control the iPod?
post #97 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

Will standard PC graphics cards work in this new Mac?

This is my question, too. Or have Apple locked in their cards with special firmware again?
post #98 of 124
They haven't "locked" their cards intentionally, it's that the motherboards use EFI instead of BIOS.

Then again, Boot Camp patches the firmware with some kind of legacy BIOS support, so maybe?

In any case, when the whole PC industry starts shifting to EFI, which is seen as the future standard, this should stop being a problem.
post #99 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog

Wait. Wait.

The best part.

I say, I say the best part is this:

A fully tricked out Mac Pro from the Apple Store worked out to . . .

Wait for it . . .




$17,981.81 with tax of course.


Yeah man. Apple sells an $18k computer.
In the stupefied words of Keanu Reeves:

Woah.


Pffff! That's nothing compared to an Avid machine. If you want to play in the big leagues, know where you stand.

I rather get a tricked out MacPro then a low end Avid MC or something (with work requirements for work not withstanding).

At least I get a yr support with Apple, avid makes you pay through the nose, if it sneezes.
post #100 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuku

Pffff! That's nothing compared to an Avid machine. If you want to play in the big leagues, know where you stand.

I rather get a tricked out MacPro then a low end Avid MC or something (with work requirements for work not withstanding).

At least I get a yr support with Apple, avid makes you pay through the nose, if it sneezes.

I was just talking about the computer and monitors. Avid is not just a computer. There is a lot of extra hardware that goes with it. We have three of them where I work. And 5 FCP HD all with Xserve Raids. And a Discreet Inferno. And a Quantel Henry.

What I want to see is a mega Mac Pro with FCP HD and Shake. That will be interesting. And it will cost a lot less than an Avid.
post #101 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by moloko

ok,
ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI) *JUST* Add $350... !!!

Not bad considering a buddy just paid like $500 retail for that in late June, so figure now it is about $400 retail and the value of the "filler" card, the 7300 is about $50-70 the GPUs are a really good mix and price IMHO.
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #102 of 124
Of course ATI just had more price cuts.. it seems like it can be had for $325-$350. And you have to wait a month. You wonder why Apple is delaying shipments.
post #103 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog

Wait. Wait.

The best part.

I say, I say the best part is this:

A fully tricked out Mac Pro from the Apple Store worked out to . . .

Wait for it . . .




$17,981.81 with tax of course.


Yeah man. Apple sells an $18k computer.
In the stupefied words of Keanu Reeves:

Woah.

What you have in the Mac pro is far from a desktop computer; it is a server dressed up like a tower (hence the name "workstation") tower servers or workstations are not cheap, you do not find them at BestBuy, this aint competeing with the e-macheins POS Of The Week...

It is competeing with people like Boxx who as of this moment use slower RAM, and Windows XP Pro...IIRC XP cant handle more than 4 GB ram, so having 8GB Mobo capacity is a moot point.

Apple offers something that Boxx Aleinware Dell and Falcon can not: OSX; opening the door to the one app out there that is acctually starting to compete with Avid on a real level: FCS...FCS isnt quite up to where Avid is as far as motion graphics and effects, but with the demo of Core Animation we saw yesterday...it is only a matter of time.

To be honest, a really good Mac workstation can be put togehter using the Mac Pro for about $5000, and a fantastic dream of a station could be built for $10,000 and if things are as I remember them, $10,000 will get a few chuckles from Avid but not much else...
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
You can't quantify how much I don't care -- Bob Kevoian of the Bob and Tom Show.
Reply
post #104 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foo Fighter

Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!

Yeah but you are ponying up the cash. so Apple wins, you lose.

Looks like Apple knows.
post #105 of 124
Looks like Apple is not really interested in growing marketshare but competing more in a vertical market of high end workstations and boutique laptopbased all in one systems for the art crowd.
post #106 of 124
How do I delete my own entries? I click on Edit but I don't see any option to delete.
post #107 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by hugodrax

Looks like Apple is not really interested in growing marketshare but competing more in a vertical market of high end workstations and boutique laptopbased all in one systems for the art crowd.

Bull shit.

Utter shit of bull.

Apple has aggressivly pursued consumer computer markets as well as professional markets. With Apple's pro macs, the computers speak for themselves in both value, features, and strength. With consumer macs, Apple has agressivly built a brand and a set of computers that cater to the wants of the average home computer user. Apple has a very diversified target audience:

- Students/Teachers/Education (Functionality + Fun + Beautiful UI + iLife)
- Old People (Simplicity + Easy of Use + Beautiful UI + Sucurity + Easy Communication/iChat/Mail)
- Young People (Functionality + Fun + Youthfullness + Beautiful UI + iLife)
- Middle Aged People (Functionality + Security + Parent Controls + Family/iLife)
- Disabled/Impaired - (Universal Access)
- Creative Professionals - (Streamlined Workflow + Graphics support through OS + Great Pro Applications + Strength/Speed/Tech)
post #108 of 124
Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?
post #109 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

How do I delete my own entries? I click on Edit but I don't see any option to delete.

No, you can't delete posts. Tell me what you want to delete and I will do it.
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
post #110 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?


Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.

But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.

What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?
--Johnny
Reply
--Johnny
Reply
post #111 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by lundy

Mac mini. Anything more expensive and the company goes for the Dell.

But business won't go for it, because their IT guys want Windows so they can continue to spend hours removing spyware, and thus keep their jobs.

What "moderate internal expandability" would a secretary or administrative assistant need?

maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.
post #112 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haggar

Is Apple aggressively pursuing business environments that want to deploy machines with compact case design, moderate internal expandability, and separate monitor?


How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?

I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.

I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.

Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.
post #113 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

maybe more ram or a bigger hard disk. There are some business environments that may need better video then gma 950. Apple can make a mac mini with a i-mac video aka mac mini + or head less imac.

I think that's stretching the argument. There aren't any business needs that I can think of that require dedicated graphics and that a workstation would be out of the question for the task.
post #114 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by WelshDog

I was just talking about the computer and monitors. Avid is not just a computer. There is a lot of extra hardware that goes with it. We have three of them where I work. And 5 FCP HD all with Xserve Raids. And a Discreet Inferno. And a Quantel Henry.

What I want to see is a mega Mac Pro with FCP HD and Shake. That will be interesting. And it will cost a lot less than an Avid.

Not really. It depends on Avid's offering. Just like autodesk/discreet smoke/flint/flame.

You may or may not take in a raid, bob, etc.

Those cost extra. more like a 20k extra.

The basic set from avid, of a regular PC+ software+license, will completely kill the above price as it is. Avid ceritified equipment is pretty inflated.

1 cheapo PC + adrenine = wow! Sure you have some audio+ video I/O. But you can add that in a mac if you actually need the output.

Most of the price is in the Video card anyway and I want to see how much crazyness you can do in Motion with that much Vram. Motion is a fun program, if you don't need to do crazy things. RT goes a long way with that sucker.
post #115 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

How compact? Mini-tower? Shuttle-like? Cube? or a slightly larger mini?

I do think that Apple has an oversimplified model line. Not having many models was good for their lean times but really, the consumer product boils down to three models total, which strikes me as a one-size-fits-all attitude. I can understand their reasoning for how they do things, but that doesn't mean I agree with it, mainly because I think they go overboard with the idea to the point of it being an unquestioned ideology and anything that deviates from that extreme is shunned.

I think it's likely too early to expect anything that a computer gamer would want though. The platform is practically anti-gaming such that there's not much market for it (though it's a vicious self-reinforcing cycle, IMO) and such a system would imply that one is running Windows anyway. I'd be pleased with it though there's another reason I don't think it would happen is that most of the complainers tend to be people that slap together their own computers out of a few parts, they practically don't want anyone to take that away from them and I don't expect Apple to oblige to that demand to the slightest degree.

Who knows, maybe they'll surprise me, they've done that on occasion. I wasn't surprised by the Mac Pro being all dual Woodcrest (though I was fearing it would be all-conroe, then Kentsfield early next year), but I was surprised by how cheaply they'd offer such systems, and I was surprised they'd bothered offering more drive slots. I was really surprised by the dual optical drives. Dual optical used to be a complaint of mine but lately I rarely use one, only a single optical is something I can understand.

I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.
post #116 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig

I'd try to market the GMA950 iMac to both business and the public. The mini needs a lockable desk because they are far too easy to steal.

And how do you deal with the ram hit and how well does GMA 950 run the 3d desktop in windows vista and mac os x 10.5?
post #117 of 124
Quote:
Unfortunately that sums up our quagmire, in a nutshell. The mantra of the Mac experience seems to be..."make do with what Apple offers". In my case, that leaves me paying far more for a machine that really doesn't meet my needs simply to acquire a decent non-integrated system. I had originally expected to spend somewhere between $1,800 - $2,000 for Apple's PowerMac successor. Today I am now in the hole for more than $2,600. Thanks Apple!

I agree Apple has such a large hole at this point its difficult to see them not address it. The Mac Pro is simply far more machine than most people will need.
post #118 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe_the_dragon

And how do you deal with the ram hit and how well does GMA 950 run the 3d desktop in windows vista and mac os x 10.5?

It's for email and spreadsheets, not 3D.
post #119 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig

It's for email and spreadsheets, not 3D.

I think Ben is right on here. The vast majority of businesses don't need dedicated graphics in their workstations. Ours don't and therefore have integrated graphics.
post #120 of 124
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenRoethig

If you want something to grow, an AIO isn't exactly the right fit. It's right if you want powerful, but uncomplicated and elegant. Believe me, OSX will take advantage of merom a lot better than windows.


I'm pretty sure iMac will get a Conroe not a Merom. Mac Book Pro will get a Merom.
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
onlooker
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: parts unknown




http://www.apple.com/feedback/macpro.html
Reply
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Current Mac Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Current Mac Hardware › Apple unveils quad-core 64-bit Mac Pro desktops