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Clunky-looking Microsoft Zune player revealed in filing - Page 2

post #41 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by scotty321

I mean, they still had one-button mice shipping until just a few weeks ago... about a DECADE after the rest of the industry came out with multi-button mice!

Uh.. Dude, when Apple first introduced the mouse to the public in 1984, the "rest of the industry" (with mice, that was only Xerox PARC) already had a standard three-button mouse. Apple CHOSE and STILL chooses to use single button mice. It's not like it was some tech. advance and Apple didn't get on board.

In other words, Apple advanced by getting rid of the other two buttons, and the rest of the industry STILL hasn't caught-up..
post #42 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer

And this is NOT the final form factor for the 'Zune'. You mock the stupid thing up first (aka, cheap plastics), then, when you have the look you want, you then work on a final materials list. Second, you'd be stupid to put the actual device in a government document that doesn't need to have the actual device. The FCC only cares about frequency and electrical interference, not "OOh, its got a scroll wheel". Plus, its hard for MS to have a grand-announcemnet event if they stupidly put up pictures month in advance.

I hope, for MS's sake (as I said above) that you're right. But several fact (ahh, troublesome things, those!) point the other way.

1) When Apple got certification with FCC for the Mighty Mouse, the picture someone else has already linked was released. No one is more concerned about secrecy than Apple (in fact they tried to prevent the FCC from releasing those pics). So, if it were possible to just give the FCC a generic mouse with the "frequency and electrical interference" of the final product, they would have done so, no?

2)MS hardly ever does anything without telling everyone about it months in advance and tons of leaks as is the case with this product already. They don't have the secrecy kick like Apple does (for better or worse, as has been argued before)...
post #43 of 92
So, the Zune's "killer feature" is a more convoluted method of accompishing exactly the same thing you could with an iPod, an FM transmitter, and a radio?
post #44 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer

And this is NOT the final form factor for the 'Zune'.

Most people seem to think it is.

On another note, it seems that Toshiba also did the design as it looks a lot like an updated Gigabeat S.
JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #45 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer

Second, you'd be stupid to put the actual device in a government document that doesn't need to have the actual device. The FCC only cares about frequency and electrical interference, not "OOh, its got a scroll wheel".

Not true. I used to do this type of testing (FCC and DOC compatibility) in Canada. The Zune is sitting in an anechoic chamber on a turntable for testing EMI/RFI compatibility. That testing involves having a damn expensive receiver listen to what electrical noise the device emits. All the styrofoam blocks are there to hold the device at different angles to see which angle performs the worst and is the noisiest. In the case of a computer peripheral, it's required that the device be connected to a sample computer as well as part of the testing. Often the noisiest parts are the cables connecting two devices together - they act as a big antena. The FCC does require a production sample (or at least representative sample) as many times the case impacts a devices passing or failing the testing.

Having said all that, I think the title of this forum posting is a bit one-side. It doesn't look that clunky to me. And I like the big screen.
post #46 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmac

Having said all that, I think the title of this forum posting is a bit one-side. It doesn't look that clunky to me. And I like the big screen.

This is, of course, opinion (which I agree does not belong in proper Journalism- but then, this is a Mac-fan rumors site...) but look at the 4th pic from the bottom where you can get an idea of the size of this thing.

From Oxford Dictionary:
Quote:
1. awkwardly solid, heavy, and outdated : even last year's laptops look clunky
post #47 of 92
Time to JUMP SHIP!
post #48 of 92
I'm pasting my ARs post. It applies here just as well.

"I'm looking forward to seeing this thing come out.

The question is why would anyone be interested in it unless they simply hate Apple, as we know some here do.

The WiFi seems to be the only thing that Apple won't have this year, though they might have Bluetooth 2. The function of WiFi on this device seems to be quite limited, unless there is functionally that MS isn't letting us on to as yet. WiFi will drop the battery life by almost 75% if left on for any length of time, going by the HTC 6700, and other phones that have it. If someone forgets to turn it off, something that will be far more common that you would think, they will be very unhappy later on during the day.

Otherwise, the other criticisms given here will likely be enough to kill it.

Black and white is fine. Apple proved that. Brown is a dull, bland color, that doesn't even sound good.

I would think that "bronze" would be a better choice. That does well.

The "wheel" that is not a wheel, does seem to be placed badly. It looks mucho uncomfortable. You would have to bend your thumb all the way down, and then you, lose the easy ability to move it around the control. Unless the device is really meant to be held sideways. But then the weight would extend beyond your fingers, making it precarious. You wouldn't be able to grasp it the way you can with a vertical player.

This should be fun."
post #49 of 92
Quote:
I can use an iTrip and have my friends tune in with a $20 FM radio.

Or get the iPod FM receiver and mimic the Zune's capabilities completely.
post #50 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by psilopsyche

Microsoft is smart. People love retro, and Zune will remind everyone of the original Gameboy! Big... slow... clunky @$$ piece of $517! bahaha!

I'm thinking "Space 1999" is the design target!!
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post #51 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gmac

Not true. I used to do this type of testing (FCC and DOC compatibility) in Canada. The Zune is sitting in an anechoic chamber on a turntable for testing EMI/RFI compatibility. That testing involves having a damn expensive receiver listen to what electrical noise the device emits. All the styrofoam blocks are there to hold the device at different angles to see which angle performs the worst and is the noisiest. In the case of a computer peripheral, it's required that the device be connected to a sample computer as well as part of the testing. Often the noisiest parts are the cables connecting two devices together - they act as a big antena. The FCC does require a production sample (or at least representative sample) as many times the case impacts a devices passing or failing the testing.

Thanks for the info Gmac, that is actually quite interesting!
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post #52 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shookster

Or get the iPod FM receiver and mimic the Zune's capabilities completely.

In fact, better, since an unlimited number of people can tune in...
post #53 of 92
I'm going to bring this up again, since there were no responses:

The article (which appears at that point to be quoting MS material) specifically says that the wireless functionality allows sharing of "promotional" songs.

Maybe it's nothing, but that strikes me as suggesting the possibility that this will involve some DRM flag that only allows streaming of certain songs that the label wants to push. New release from the latest hotness that they want to build buzz on, that sort of thing.

Or possibly you can stream anything, but "promotional" songs can actually be transferred?

I can't think of any other reasons to use that word. Thoughts?
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post #54 of 92
I'm not sure about the rest of the world ... but when i'm usually with several friends we tend to have conversations and enjoy each others company, not huddle around and listen to music on our MP3 players. Besides, isn't that what stereos are for?

I can see the future now ... a group of friends sitting at a table, all jacked into their own separate MP3 players listening to one person's "shared" music library, while text messaging each other on their cell phones.... Give me a break.

Which brings me to another point... if sooo many analysts are worried that cell phones will soon start to eat away at the iPod's market share, how in the hell can they consider Zune to be any threat whatsoever? Seems a little late to be jumping into media player market doesn't it?


There's only a few benefits to having wireless capabilities in a portable music device;

1. Streaming music to an output device; speaker system, stereo, etc...
2. Downloading music directly from a source (music store) ... this of course does not apply to copying your music library over as wireless bandwidth is extremely slow for copying multitudes of audio/video files - would definitely want a hardline connection for that.
3. Proximity detection and auto-update/sync. Any changes on the "go" could be synced automatically when the "base" computer detects the mobile device. Could be anything from, purchased music (#2), play count, voice recordings, saved photos, etc...
Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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Disclaimer: The things I say are merely my own personal opinion and may or may not be based on facts. At certain points in any discussion, sarcasm may ensue.
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post #55 of 92
And here's another bit to ponder:

Quote:
"In order to use wireless sharing feature such as 'send' and 'DJ' you will need to turn on your device's wireless capabilities," Microsoft states in the user manual. "When this setting is on, your device will be discoverable by other Pyxis devices and also be capable of searching for other Pyxis devices in range."

"Discoverable by other Pyxis devices and capable of searching for other Pyxis devices" sounds like you just sort of run into other Zunes on the bus, say, until you consider that that would require all, uh, Pyxis (ugh) devices to have their WiFi turned on all the time, i.e. with the batteries dead most of the time.

And WTF is a "Pyxis" device, anyway? A giddy name for "WiFi enabled"? Some intricate MS proprietary implementation of same that includes whatever DRM the RIAA felt was necessary to allow sharing?
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post #56 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin

I'm not sure about the rest of the world ... but when i'm usually with several friends we tend to have conversations and enjoy each others company, not huddle around and listen to music on our MP3 players. Besides, isn't that what stereos are for?

I assume you are an adult.

My daughter, and her friends, mostly between 14 and 17, do this all the time. I see it being done on the subway between older people as well.

It's fairly common, earwax and all.
post #57 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

And here's another bit to ponder:



"Discoverable by other Pyxis devices and capable of searching for other Pyxis devices" sounds like you just sort of run into other Zunes on the bus, say, until you consider that that would require all, uh, Pyxis (ugh) devices to have their WiFi turned on all the time, i.e. with the batteries dead most of the time.

And WTF is a "Pyxis" device, anyway? A giddy name for "WiFi enabled"? Some intricate MS proprietary implementation of same that includes whatever DRM the RIAA felt was necessary to allow sharing?

Here you go:

http://www.pyxisit.com/
post #58 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

I'm going to bring this up again, since there were no responses:

The article (which appears at that point to be quoting MS material) specifically says that the wireless functionality allows sharing of "promotional" songs.

Maybe it's nothing, but that strikes me as suggesting the possibility that this will involve some DRM flag that only allows streaming of certain songs that the label wants to push. New release from the latest hotness that they want to build buzz on, that sort of thing.

Or possibly you can stream anything, but "promotional" songs can actually be transferred?

I can't think of any other reasons to use that word. Thoughts?

Yeah, we don't know enough yet.

But if only certain songs will be tagged as "share-able" then this would limit the excitement factor unless you are in a particular group of people who are following the free Tuesday downloads very closely and sit around to talk about them.

As for sharing headphones to hear each other's music, yes it is kind of common, but not is a real deal buster for anyone.
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post #59 of 92
Good ol' Microsoft copying again. They think that all the iPod consists of is a screen, a scroll wheel placed under the screen and a rectangular shape. And if you have those 3 basic, fundamental requirements you have a bestseller. Forget the name Apple which has a cult following, forget the already installed marketbase of 75%, forget the ease-of-use that has made Apple so popular in the first place. The Zune will be unreliable, hard to use and will require a manual that is at least 50 pages. Someone earlier posted that Apple has just now developed a mouse that has multiple buttons and that they were a decade behind. Think about it, what other computer can you do more with than any PC, using only ONE button.
post #60 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by macinthe408

If I were Apple, I'd be afraid, very afraid. That thing looks demonstrably way better than any iPod. It simply looks amazing. I am, ohmygod, flabbergasted.

The billions and billions of dollars Microsoft spends on R&D has finally come to fruition. This is the result of years of hard work and dedicated engineers diligently working to reinvent the music playing device as we know it.

I am simply enamored at how Microsoft closed the curtains and totally designed this thing from the ground up, without regard to what designs and form factors are already out there.

Unbelievable. As Jim Rose would say, "I am riveted!"

I'm not sure if this is a joke, or what. Does macinthe408 not see ANY striking similarity between the two devices, other than the fact that the Zune is about 25% larger? And where does the amazement come from? The bigger screen that extends vertically instead of horizontally so forget about watching movies in widescreen without a whole lot of wasted space, or is it the two little buttons on either side of the scroll wheel where all that amazement is born. Years of hard work? The same years that tried to create a reliable Vista that is still plagued with bugs and blue screens. And my favorite, designed from the ground up. If Wi-Fi is designing from the ground up...just wait until about September/October of this year...The Zune will be lying in a Dune of Ruin -- Peace out.
post #61 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor007

I'm not sure if this is a joke, or what. Does macinthe408 not see ANY striking similarity between the two devices, other than the fact that the Zune is about 25% larger? And where does the amazement come from? The bigger screen that extends vertically instead of horizontally so forget about watching movies in widescreen without a whole lot of wasted space, or is it the two little buttons on either side of the scroll wheel where all that amazement is born. Years of hard work? The same years that tried to create a reliable Vista that is still plagued with bugs and blue screens. And my favorite, designed from the ground up. If Wi-Fi is designing from the ground up...just wait until about September/October of this year...The Zune will be lying in a Dune of Ruin -- Peace out.

He's serious. We ALL agree with him.
post #62 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

He's serious. We ALL agree with him.

All of you haven't used the device yet. Once you do, it will be apparent how "great" the engineers are that reside in Redmond. Design is about art, beauty and iconic creation. The Zune isn't any one of those three and in a culture that is shifting dramatically to, "does it look cool," from "what can it do," Microsoft will be once again, too far behind to catch up. Sure, it may have features that the iPod doesn't have but when it's as big as a Palm Pilot from the early 90's and ran by software that will never have the reliable stability, it doesn't have a chance of swaying the young teenagers that make up the majority of that 75%. But hey, let the old people have Zune, they deserve something that they're used to...large, ugly technology that has no visual appeal. The Apple engineers have not been idle since the release of the iPod video. And what they have to release in the next two years will once again redefine and revolutionize this technology.
post #63 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin

I can see the future now ... a group of friends sitting at a table, all jacked into their own separate MP3 players listening to one person's "shared" music library, while text messaging each other on their cell phones.... Give me a break.

That's not too far off. For many years teenagers here have been using SMS all day long to send messages to friends - even if they are near each other.

SMS is a second nature to them and I wouldn't be surprised to see them sending messages to each other while sitting in the same room.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mjtomlin

Which brings me to another point... if sooo many analysts are worried that cell phones will soon start to eat away at the iPod's market share, how in the hell can they consider Zune to be any threat whatsoever? Seems a little late to be jumping into media player market doesn't it?

JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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JLL

95% percent of the boat is owned by Microsoft, but the 5% Apple controls happens to be the rudder!
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post #64 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor007

All of you haven't used the device yet. Once you do, it will be apparent how "great" the engineers are that reside in Redmond. Design is about art, beauty and iconic creation. The Zune isn't any one of those three and in a culture that is shifting dramatically to, "does it look cool," from "what can it do," Microsoft will be once again, too far behind to catch up. Sure, it may have features that the iPod doesn't have but when it's as big as a Palm Pilot from the early 90's and ran by software that will never have the reliable stability, it doesn't have a chance of swaying the young teenagers that make up the majority of that 75%. But hey, let the old people have Zune, they deserve something that they're used to...large, ugly technology that has no visual appeal. The Apple engineers have not been idle since the release of the iPod video. And what they have to release in the next two years will once again redefine and revolutionize this technology.

Sarcasm doesn't seem to transmit well over the internet, does it?
post #65 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Here you go:

http://www.pyxisit.com/

Hmmmm....

Quote:
Pyxis Mobile has developed a suite of wireless applications specifically tailored to the unique needs of the financial services industry. Using their handheld device, users can access business-critical information from enterprise backend systems.

That's going to look great on the box. Business critical information, dogs!
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post #66 of 92
So here's the Toshiba Gigabeat S, which engadget is saying is the basis for the Zune;



Add a fake scroll wheel and move a few buttons around and it looks about right.

From what I can see, it's about the same size as the 5g iPod, although MS add-ons may have increased that. The Toshiba claims 5 hour battery life, so figure no more than half that if the wireless gets used much.

Windows Mobile, or Windows Media Mobile, or whatever they call it. At any rate, explicitly designed to interact with Media Center, so probably seamless transfer of DVR content, possibly additions to the MC interface to enable content transfer between the Zune and a Media Center computer. Pretty clearly they want this thing to be a extension of the MC paradigm into the portable space.

So it looks to be a standard MS vs. Apple set-up: Apple's focus on clarity and usability over feature set creep; MS trying to put as much stuff in there as possible with a mind towards some kind of "convergence" on world domination, or at least the living room.

I can imagine the promo video- consumer in tastefully spare loft space happily browsing content via a Windows Media Center box and a 52" plasma. Quick shots of music, video and pictures menu items. Scrolls down to "Zune" setting, highlights a few menu options, happy little animation happens, consumer plucks Zune from cradle and continues watching video in wide-screen mode as he walks out the door (presumably not slamming into a wall or falling down the stairs). Consumer hooks up with posse of uber-cool buddies, all toting Zunes, quick shot of wireless menu option on Zune screen, uber-cool buddies begin to nod in unison, grinning like mad.

Which makes for a great video, just like the Oragami videos seemed to promise some kind of incredibly groovy untethered lifestyle. The problem is that once you've put a lot of elements and "features" together in the MS way is it still easy to use? In a way that makes sense to the average consumer? Do size and battery life trade-offs really make sense for what you get? Are there any hidden "gotchas" as you navigate the MS ecosystem?

Even all these years after Apple demonstrated that making a thing that does what it does with nothing but clarity and simplicity, the competitive response is invariably "lets make it do more stuff".
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post #67 of 92
So Microsoft is selling this thing based on it's wireless sharing thing?

I see a few problems with this.. even if they sell like hotcakes it will be a while before there is anyone nearby to make these features useful?

Also this being an M$ product going around with this networking tech turned on will surely get you owned!?

oh and one more thing..

This thing is freakin huge! just look at the picture of it next to the laptop!
TD
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post #68 of 92
i think that the 6th gen ipod will have an equivelant of these features, but, as per usual, apple is keeping things close to its chest. haha. id larf if they released it a week before the 'zune' like with leopard and vista, ( if thats whats going to happen), to take the sting out of the zune. we can hope...

how easy was it to find out features on the 5th gen ipod?

edit: typo
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"i find that if you keep talkin', your mouth comes up with stuff..." Karl Pilkington
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post #69 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer

Yeah, what about it. Looks like a standard Windows laptop, owned by some corporation (I'm guessing that from all the 'property of' and inventory tags on it - it almost makes me think its a gov't computer with as many items it has on it).

And this is NOT the final form factor for the 'Zune'. You mock the stupid thing up first (aka, cheap plastics), then, when you have the look you want, you then work on a final materials list. Second, you'd be stupid to put the actual device in a government document that doesn't need to have the actual device. The FCC only cares about frequency and electrical interference, not "OOh, its got a scroll wheel". Plus, its hard for MS to have a grand-announcemnet event if they stupidly put up pictures month in advance.

Since we are writing about pictures taken from electrical and magnetic interference tests conducted by Toshiba, we can conclude that :
a- the laptop is a Toshiba
b- Zune will use the same cheap plastics and roughly the same form factor tested for the FCC since using other materials would change electrical and magnetic interference qualities
Stephane

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post #70 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

So here's the Toshiba Gigabeat S, which engadget is saying is the basis for the Zune;



Add a fake scroll wheel and move a few buttons around and it looks about right.

From what I can see, it's about the same size as the 5g iPod, although MS add-ons may have increased that. The Toshiba claims 5 hour battery life, so figure no more than half that if the wireless gets used much.

Windows Mobile, or Windows Media Mobile, or whatever they call it. At any rate, explicitly designed to interact with Media Center, so probably seamless transfer of DVR content, possibly additions to the MC interface to enable content transfer between the Zune and a Media Center computer. Pretty clearly they want this thing to be a extension of the MC paradigm into the portable space.

So it looks to be a standard MS vs. Apple set-up: Apple's focus on clarity and usability over feature set creep; MS trying to put as much stuff in there as possible with a mind towards some kind of "convergence" on world domination, or at least the living room.

I can imagine the promo video- consumer in tastefully spare loft space happily browsing content via a Windows Media Center box and a 52" plasma. Quick shots of music, video and pictures menu items. Scrolls down to "Zune" setting, highlights a few menu options, happy little animation happens, consumer plucks Zune from cradle and continues watching video in wide-screen mode as he walks out the door (presumably not slamming into a wall or falling down the stairs). Consumer hooks up with posse of uber-cool buddies, all toting Zunes, quick shot of wireless menu option on Zune screen, uber-cool buddies begin to nod in unison, grinning like mad.

Which makes for a great video, just like the Oragami videos seemed to promise some kind of incredibly groovy untethered lifestyle. The problem is that once you've put a lot of elements and "features" together in the MS way is it still easy to use? In a way that makes sense to the average consumer? Do size and battery life trade-offs really make sense for what you get? Are there any hidden "gotchas" as you navigate the MS ecosystem?

Even all these years after Apple demonstrated that making a thing that does what it does with nothing but clarity and simplicity, the competitive response is invariably "lets make it do more stuff".

VERY well put!
post #71 of 92
Will zune be compatable with os x?

Will it be able to share songs with the new ipods?
post #72 of 92
Not a chance.
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post #73 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by zedrac

Sarcasm doesn't seem to transmit well over the internet, does it?

Apparently not.
post #74 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by tadunne

So Microsoft is selling this thing based on it's wireless sharing thing?

I see a few problems with this.. even if they sell like hotcakes it will be a while before there is anyone nearby to make these features useful?

Also this being an M$ product going around with this networking tech turned on will surely get you owned!?

oh and one more thing..

This thing is freakin huge! just look at the picture of it next to the laptop!

That's the major feature. The slightly larger screen is something that should be matched by Apple. The fake scrollwheels some companies are coming out with might fool some people who haven't use the iPod wheel.

It's about the same size as the 5G, except for the thickness. It's much thicker, possibly for the battery.

The photo shown around is not a good one. The angle, and the lens zoom make it look larger than it is.
post #75 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephane

Since we are writing about pictures taken from electrical and magnetic interference tests conducted by Toshiba, we can conclude that :
a- the laptop is a Toshiba
b- Zune will use the same cheap plastics and roughly the same form factor tested for the FCC since using other materials would change electrical and magnetic interference qualities

Yes, it has to be the same unit as tested. Any changes will require retesting. When we designed equipment at my company, we had to go through this as well. Anything that could change the emissive results required retesting. That meant any change. If it ended up causing any problems at all, no matter how minor, it would be removed from the market.
post #76 of 92
I have to say the MediaCenter-like screen looks kind of cool, and I agree with Addabox on their probable marketing this as MC on the road (except that the saturated teletubby colors make it hard to read). I think it will be adopted by those who are living MC-centric lives and Apple needs to move to the living room more aggressively than it is now.

If you can sit on your couch with your Zune ... gads that sounds creepy ... and run your home media system with it, possibly scrubbing through media content as if it were a remote control, then it will be interesting enough to hang on as MS slowly accumulates content and favorable contracts with broadcasters and cable outlets. This is not so much a shot for Microsoft to unseat the iPod, it is a shot at further taking the living room from Sony and Apple.

I am a little more wary of Zune now. Side by side it may not outcompete the iPod, but the complete service that MS wants to control could outlast the iPod, especially if cellphones start to intrude on the mobile space.
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post #77 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Louzer

And this is NOT the final form factor for the 'Zune'. You mock the stupid thing up first (aka, cheap plastics), then, when you have the look you want, you then work on a final materials list. Second, you'd be stupid to put the actual device in a government document that doesn't need to have the actual device. The FCC only cares about frequency and electrical interference, not "OOh, its got a scroll wheel". Plus, its hard for MS to have a grand-announcemnet event if they stupidly put up pictures month in advance

Well I hate to tell you this, what you are seeing is the final version, the FCC requires you to submit test data on a"Final" product when you are applying for a FCC class A product. You can not mock up something and provide data to the FCC on something that is not "final" production level product. The fact it showed up on the FCC web site says they had submitted for their FCC license number in order to sell the product. It looks like someone did not request the FCC not to disclose this information on their public site until after the product release. I bet some EMI engineer at M$ is getting a serious ear beating this morning.

Also, the inventory tag you are seeing is something that the Test lab puts on the customer's product and support equipment for tacking and control purposes. All EMI test labs do this.
post #78 of 92
If those features were on an iPod, they would just work. Knowing microsot though, something tells me that all the fancy extra features on this will be designed in an awkward non user friendly way that will render them almost pointless. I can just imagine:

joe1 "Hey buddy lets use wireless to play each other music!"
joe2 "Awesome lets do it"
joe1 "Ok one second let me just enable the wireless"
joe2 "Yes. I too must enable wireless"
...
...
...
joe1 "Ok Wireless enabled"
joe2 "Wait mine isn't working"
joe1 "you may need to restart the device"
...
...
...
joe2 "ok working now"
joe1 "oh wait I forgot I don't actually have any music"
post #79 of 92
I do believe Apple would be wise to incorporate wireless tech into the iPod, but as a tool for synching, not for sharing. Here's the difference as I see it:

Zune uses wireless to share. As in, other Zune users get to listen to whatever you're listening to, or see whatever pr0n you're seeing. Yawn. This just won't go over well at all. To begin with, if you're with a group of people, how do you share music or images? Do you all put on headphones and listen to music? Or do you crank the stereo? You share music in a group by using speakers. Same with photos. If you want to share photos with an iPod, you pass the iPod around, gather 'round the iPod, or plug it into the TV and screen 'em for everyone. What you do not do is all go off into separate corners, fire up your Zunes, and gawk as the same photo in unison.

For these reasons, Zune's wireless will be a flop.

Apple needs to do wireless right, which means synching, or real sharing. As in, you're visiting with friends, and after you show your vacation pics on the TV, a few friends ask to have their own copies of the pics. So you pull out your iPod, they pull out their iPods or laptops or whatever, and you wirelessly dump your photos onto their drives. You've just shared photos for real. With music this runs into thorny DRM issues, but at the very least, one should be able to wirelessly share their entire iTunes library when in range, meaning that others can listen to whatever they like.

In fact, lets bust open the whole pinata: a wireless iPod should be able to share everything on its HD with anyone within range. For example, you're at work, and your iPod synchs with the current project directory on your work computer. Then you go home, and when you get within range, your iPod synchs that same project directory with your home computer. This all happens wirelessly, automatically, and invisibly. The wireless iPod user is basically surrounded with a data force field that synchs with anything within range.

Optimally, if you visit with 3 different friends over the weekend, your iPod should wirelessly absorb all of the shared files on their computers/iPods, and each friend's computer should wirelessly absorb all the shared data on your iPod. If we take such wireless sharing to an extreme, assuming unlimited bandwidth and storage capacity, then by the same "seven degrees of Kevin Bacon" model, it should take no more than a few weeks for any wireless iPod user to accumulate an iTunes library consisting of all the available digital music in the world (perhaps a few months for social recluses like myself.) Of course DRM prevents such a scenario, but apply the same model to non-DRM files, and you can see the potential. Such data networking could obliterate the corporate media's stranglehold on information and news. In fact such a technology could result in social upheaval on a scale similar to that which resulted from technological innovations like the printing press or television.

The only question is, do we end it with nuclear armageddon before the current power structure is brought down? Since leaders in both the East and the West seem to equally lust after the end times, I remain pessimistic that we'll even see broadband access to >90% of American households.

Ok I don't know if that made sense but I'm flyin' too high to proof-read at this moment. Bottom line: Zune sells only because Microsoft has the marketing resources to force it on consumers. It's all good, because it will pressure Apple to include wireless tech in the iPod.
post #80 of 92
I always wondered where all those unemployed soviet industrial designers and architechs went... now we know.... they work at microsoft!
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