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Exodus and Moses' volcano God

post #1 of 58
Thread Starter 
just found this article

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/5287124.stm

basically, huge volcanic eruption about 1500BC, caused massive damage and tsunami around the Mediterranean. Cue Moses, receives sign from God through a volcano, or the volcano God Baal leads moses out of Egypt around about the same time or just a bit later.

Same event or a trigger for a mythology to arise around an event? Perhaps someone with better understanding could comment.
post #2 of 58
There was a documentary about this theory on the History channel a week ago I think. It was very interesting. Other than that, I don't have much to add. Sorry about the lack of better understanding.
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post #3 of 58
Thread Starter 
so it was very interesting but you cant remember any of it?
post #4 of 58
Ok, I can tell you what I remember (I was flipping channels because I don't like television and I'm very ADD while watching). I didn't see the beginning I flipped to it when they were talking about the water turning to blood. This was explained by a very high concentration of iron in the water from volcanic activity, I think. Apparently this water to blood thing has happened in some lake fairly recently, and by that I mean in the past 50 years or something like that. After this I changed the channel because I was bored. When I changed back they were on the last plague. This was explained by carbon dioxide that had been released from the volcano. The history channel said that only the first born egyptians were affected because they were asleep on low-lying beds, first born privilege, while their siblings slept on roofs, carts and other higher up stuff. The jews weren't affected because they were standing and eating passover. This time I didn't change the channel, I just went into another room. When I returned they were explaining the parting of the red sea. However, I don't recall what they said about that. Sorry for my sketchy details but I wasn't really watching the show. I'll try and find a link to it.
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post #5 of 58
http://www.historychannel.com/thcsearch/thc_search.do After clicking that search for: "The Exodus Decoded"

I think that was the show I saw. Looks like it is going to be on again on Sept. 7.
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post #6 of 58
It was a really good documentary.
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post #7 of 58
the volcano in question was thera now known as santorini in the greek isles. i was ther last year for a wedding. once you look down the caldera at the med waters below, you realize how powerful of an explosion it must have been. it's quite breath taking.
post #8 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by maimezvous

The jews weren't affected because they were standing and eating passover.


Sorry that makes no sense. So the Jews were standing and celebrating a holiday of which the events they were living through? It would be as if the entire pagan world celebrated Christmas the year Jesus was born.
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post #9 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar

Sorry that makes no sense. So the Jews were standing and celebrating a holiday of which the events they were living through? It would be as if the entire pagan world celebrated Christmas the year Jesus was born.

The way I understand these events the night the "angel of death" came was the first passover. Doesn't it kind of make sense, the "angel of death" PASSED OVER the Jews. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't think that I am in this case.
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post #10 of 58
If we are going to take anything in any religious book literally, then the Jews may have well been awake during the progression of the CO2 cloud, but they certainly weren't having a Passover Seder, being the celebratory act of Passover...

Your understanding of the origin of the term passover is remarkable.

Edit: And actually Passover is probably a misnomer... hover over or protect is probably a better sense...
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post #11 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar

If we are going to take anything in any religious book literally, then the Jews may have well been awake during the progression of the CO2 cloud, but they certainly weren't having a Passover Seder, being the celebratory act of Passover...

Your understanding of the origin of the term passover is remarkable.

No need to get snippy this is how I've had it explained to me numerous times. Would you mind explaining to me exactly why I'm wrong, and where Passover originated?
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post #12 of 58
You are wrong in that the holiday of Passover requires a telling of the tale of Exodus and a variety of other cultural artifacts all of which requires on the part of the people living at the time advanced knowledge of the events to come. To take another example from the old testament, it would be as if the Jews in the story of Purim were celebrating their survival and Ester's boldness before it even happened. The actual holiday of Passover originates much later than Exodus; although interestingly enough, because Judaism is supposed to be a source religion, and Abraham and his ilk were supposed to have been Jewish they are supposed to have been able to intuit all the holidays that Judaism would acquire for all time (which is btw, an idiotic (and medieval) way of thinking).

As far as the origin of the english term Passover, see the mistranslation of King James...
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post #13 of 58
Haha. Interesting, I think I understand.
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post #14 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

It was a really good documentary.

Absolutely. I keep waiting for the DVD to be released. The company is Toronto-based as well.
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post #15 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar

Sorry that makes no sense. So the Jews were standing and celebrating a holiday of which the events they were living through? It would be as if the entire pagan world celebrated Christmas the year Jesus was born.

The Passover commemorates the event that took place on that particular night.

On an entirely unrelated note (and before Marc brings it up) Christmas is celebrated on Dec. 25 because the early Church was attempting to "christianize" a pagan winter celebration called Saturnalia.

So yes, gift-giving was taking place on Dec. 25 before Jesus was born.
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post #16 of 58
Thread Starter 
And dont forget, that Easter originated by the pagan celebration of painting eggs because the Goddess Ishtar fell down from heaven in a giant egg and landed in the river Euphrates. Of course, 'fluid' thinking tells me that Easter is the clebration of the reflection of the moon in water and jack all to do with a resurrecting Jesus.

Carry on...
post #17 of 58
Thread Starter 
Random thought of the day:- why is it strange that as soon as segovius stops posting, then dmz goes away aswell?
post #18 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

Random thought of the day:- why is it strange that as soon as segovius stops posting, then dmz goes away aswell?

Hm. You know, I don't think I've ever seen Janet and Michael Jackson in the same place at the same time, either.
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post #19 of 58
there was another history channel discussion of the plagues and the first born died because by custom they ate first (i guess when the family is hungary or starved and it was a mold or fungus on the limited grain that the first born ate that killed them, they ate first died first. does history channel part of itunes so i could download this , it's a facinating theory.
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post #20 of 58
Yes, it was a documentary that detailed the idea that all 10 plagues were connected and not simply random in nature.

Can't remember the name, but it was fascinating to watch.
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post #21 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777

Yes, it was a documentary that detailed the idea that all 10 plagues were connected and not simply random in nature.

Can't remember the name, but it was fascinating to watch.

"Exodus Decoded"?

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post #22 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulkas

"Exodus Decoded"?

I linked to that a bit earlier in the thread, if you want more information frank777.
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post #23 of 58
Exodus Decoded is the recent one. Unless I'm mistaken, NOFEER is talking about another one that aired a couple of years ago.
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post #24 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER

there was another history channel discussion of the plagues and the first born died because by custom they ate first (i guess when the family is hungary or starved and it was a mold or fungus on the limited grain that the first born ate that killed them, they ate first died first. does history channel part of itunes so i could download this , it's a facinating theory.

Thousands of years of oral history and linguistic gymnastics performed during translations have the wonderful effect of changing the intent of the original statement, and imbue odd, yet explainable occurances with a storyteller's romantic or theological world view.

(edited for clarity)

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post #25 of 58
Huh??
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post #26 of 58
I agree, with Frank777. SpamSandwich, do you mind explaining your comment for those of that don't live in your head?
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post #27 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by maimezvous

I agree, with Frank777. SpamSandwich, do you mind explaining your comment for those of that don't live in your head?

Sounds like Spam's talking about oral formulaic theory.
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post #28 of 58
I found a link but it isn't the rigorous discription of the plagues i was looking for, it was indeed on cable and i also read it but can't find the exact link here is something similar

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articl...28/ai_n6361835

i found it--and gives reference to the tv shows/ books/ articles
http://www.adam.com.au/bstett/BTenPlaguesEgypt78.htm

here is the volcano explanation of the plagues
http://www.grahamphillips.net/Books/act_new.htm

i'm still looking for better discription of the co2 cloud and as far as the angel of death "passing over" if co2 if would "pass under" the jews, but interesting thoughts. i need to do more research
please provide detailed links

also if a co2 cloud had to travel 500 miles would it be diluted?? some links include the possibility that a comet triggered the volcano, wow that would be historic, right, has any other volcano activity been associated with a strike?
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post #29 of 58
Quote:
nd dont forget, that Easter originated by the pagan celebration of painting eggs because the Goddess Ishtar fell down from heaven in a giant egg and landed in the river Euphrates.

Furthermore, the word "easter" doesn't appear in the Bible (well, not in the context you might expect).
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post #30 of 58
Well since the early church was attempting to "christianize" pagan Roman festivals, it makes sense that Easter celebrations wouldn't be mentioned in the Bible.

Of course, the fact that such things are missing from the New Testament, (along with the non-mention of the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD and scripture quotations from 2nd century Church leaders) provides key evidence that the Gospel texts date to within the lifetimes of those that are claimed to have written it.

Which is precisely where Marc's pagan/astrological theories start to take a swift beating.
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post #31 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stoo

Furthermore, the word "easter" doesn't appear in the Bible (well, not in the context you might expect).

Neither does the word Pesach (passover) in the old testament.
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post #32 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777

Well since the early church was attempting to "christianize" pagan Roman festivals, it makes sense that Easter celebrations wouldn't be mentioned in the Bible.

Of course, the fact that such things are missing from the New Testament, (along with the non-mention of the fall of Jerusalem in 70AD and scripture quotations from 2nd century Church leaders) provides key evidence that the Gospel texts date to within the lifetimes of those that are claimed to have written it.

Which is precisely where Marc's pagan/astrological theories start to take a swift beating.

Frank, why would the Church need to christianize the pagan Roman Festivals? If the Cunt Jesus really resurrected as you would claim, wouldn't the date of this be of upmost importance to the early Christians? Wouldn't the resurrection, if it really happened, be worthy of its own celebration on its own date? - Instead of stealing a pagan (ie evil) springtime celebration calculated by the phase of the moon in relation to one of the four points of equinox/solstice, and pinching the name of this celebration from a Pagan Goddess whos followers gave eachother gifts of painted eggs. - Unless of course, the Cunt Jesus personifys the same astrological events as did the Goddess Ishtar. Namely the Cunt Jesus is a Satanic imposter of the pagan Solar Festivals.

Why are we calculating the Christian festival of Easter by phases of the moon and the zodaic, and giving out gifts of eggs like the pagans did over 2000 years ago? - because there is no substance to the story of the Cunt Jesus' resurrection at all and the powers that be had to pillage the whole story from the people they went on to persecute as evil. If nothing else, it shows just how short of imagination these perverts were in not being able to even concoct their own little fantasy world.

Frank, why are the Gospel writers attributed to the four signs that make up the four points of the zodiac? Why would Mark be attributed to the Lion? (Leo). Why out of hundreds of Gospels were only four chosen, if not to give a nod to the astrology of cross symbolism that founded the philosophy?

And FYI the fall of Jerusalem is clearly outlined in Mark, so he wouldn't have wrote it before 70AD, (even the conservative of Scholars dont attribute it earlier than this - so I wonder what planet you are from) so why did it take 40 years for Mark to give a brief account of the Cunt Jesus had he been real? Bishop Marcion would be turning in his grave! Would you be in a position to make an honest account of the Vietnam war, if there was no TV, no newspapers, no radio, and all your information came from the relatives of servicemen by word of mouth 40 years after the event?
post #33 of 58
It's always interesting when someone is so unsure of his own point of view, he feels he has to insult the other side whilst questioning it.
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post #34 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

Frank, why would the Church need to christianize the pagan Roman Festivals? If the ...<snip>

Sounds like you have some real venom for the C of E, markUK. Doesn't mean you should be a complete cornhole to Frank, regardless of your personal anti-religious issues.

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post #35 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777

It's always interesting when someone is so unsure of his own point of view, he feels he has to insult the other side whilst questioning it.

where is this so called personal insult? Please quote it for me. Or is this some distraction for not being able to answer any of my questions? Come on Frank, I thought you were giving me a spanking. Has the Cunt Jesus let you down again?
post #36 of 58
Since you're so determined to insult the leader of my faith, I'll let Him answer your questions.
Good luck with that.
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post #37 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

Has the Cunt Jesus let you down again?

You lose! Thanks for playing!
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post #38 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Frank777

Since you're so determined to insult the leader of my faith, I'll let Him answer your questions.
Good luck with that.

While I sit here awaiting your imaginary friend to SMS me, i thought I address the issue of what Jesus represents.

Jesus represents stealing a rich culture and turning it into one of depravity.
Jesus represents stealing the philosophy of mankind and claiming it as his own
Jesus represents the enslavement of mankind.
Jesus represents torture and barbarism
Jesus represents narrowminded rigid thinking.
Jesus represents the power control systems of authority
Jesus represents lies and deceit
Jesus represents stubborn arrogant non-thinking.

Infact, Jesus has come to represent everything that Satan is supposed to represent. So Jesus and Satan are infact the same thing.

So, if Jesus was real, the fact that he came, and the world has had to endure 2000 years of murder, lies and torture in his name, - and he would know all this in advance, makes him a far bigger Cunt than Hitler and Stalin combined

or If Jesus was not real, then his followers have made his personality into the worst Cunt mankind has ever had to endure.

At least with Hitler, Stalin and all the other baddies, we had to only endure their agenda of Evil for a few decades. the Cunt Jesus goes far better than that - having reigned a veil of evil over the world for nearly 2000 years, and certainly for some time to come in the future.
post #39 of 58
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

While I sit here awaiting your imaginary friend to SMS me, i thought I address the issue of what Jesus represents.

Jesus represents stealing a rich culture and turning it into one of depravity.
Jesus represents stealing the philosophy of mankind and claiming it as his own
Jesus represents the enslavement of mankind.
Jesus represents torture and barbarism
Jesus represents narrowminded rigid thinking.
Jesus represents the power control systems of authority
Jesus represents lies and deceit
Jesus represents stubborn arrogant non-thinking.

Infact, Jesus has come to represent everything that Satan is supposed to represent. So Jesus and Satan are infact the same thing.

So, if Jesus was real, the fact that he came, and the world has had to endure 2000 years of murder, lies and torture in his name, - and he would know all this in advance, makes him a far bigger Cunt than Hitler and Stalin combined

or If Jesus was not real, then his followers have made his personality into the worst Cunt mankind has ever had to endure.

At least with Hitler, Stalin and all the other baddies, we had to only endure their agenda of Evil for a few decades. the Cunt Jesus goes far better than that - having reigned a veil of evil over the world for nearly 2000 years, and certainly for some time to come in the future.

If God essentially gave us a certain amount of freedom...what would be wrong with that?

One mistake that you tend to make MarcUK, is that you hold up 'evil' as an abstract principle -- it's not -- evil is a moral separation from God. And, as a very wise man once said, 'God is no Buttercup.'

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #40 of 58
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

If God essentially gave us a certain amount of freedom...what would be wrong with that?

One mistake that you tend to make MarcUK, is that you hold up 'evil' as an abstract principle -- it's not -- evil is a moral separation from God. And, as a very wise man once said, 'God is no Buttercup.'

as im still awaiting subliminal SMS as to why Christians would rather celebrate the pagan festival of the goddess Ishtar, rather than the actual date of when their leader died and resurrected - is it because no one knows? or cares? No one bothered to write down when the most important person in human history died - and no-one wrote it down when he came back to life?

Lots of questions for the Cunt Jesus. BTW, Im sure followers of Jesus the Christ, wont be too upset about my terminology of Cunt Jesus - Cunt Jesus is the leader of the Evangelical Fundamentalism and in no way related to Jesus the Christ - except philosophically as his opposite. So we have JC and his opposite CJ.

Anyway dmz, for all my fluid liberal thinking, I have never been able to get my head around, and cant even think of a 'beautiful' truth regarding this thing known as the trinity. Father Son HolySpirit. I just cant contemplate what the specialness of this deal is all about. Maybe you could explain?

Ps. I see the Pope has described the US fundie movement as scoring void in philosophy - which considering the Bible is a philosophy - was probably a coded message to say that Creationists dont know shit.
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