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First builds of Mac OS X 10.4.8 released to developers - Page 2

post #41 of 69
8/29/06 at 9:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsxrboy

Yep, PPTP.. 10.4.6 wasn't a problem for me, however.

You know, I ought to send you my Console logs for pptp. It tries to Authenticate, but it doesn't accept the RECV commands, which is the problem. I have sent several bug reports to Apple, but nothing has been done about it.
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-- Mike Eggleston
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-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #42 of 69
8/29/06 at 10:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac

Vista has got a lot of proving to do. One stable build doesn't make an OS ready for prime time. No one is talking about app compatibility which is supposed to be the real achilles heal of vista. I would wait for a while after Vista's release and see the reviews before rushing out and buying a pc system.

Pardon my french, but who gives a shit about 'backwards compatibility' - give me reliability, security and stability, and quite frankly, leave it up to the market place to lynch companies who fail to release Vista compatible applications or updates to their current applications in a timely manner.

If we're going to bitch about 'compatibility' then why not dredge out the number of OSS projects pissed off over the fact that Apple still haven't corrected bugs in their API which are causing them problems with developing their software.
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post #43 of 69
8/29/06 at 10:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWine

Really, nothing extraordinary... NYTimes.com, bbc, latimes, google news, dailyrotation.com, metafilter.com, linkfilter.com, amazon.com, demonoid.com, various forums, the occasional youtube, nothing special. The point is Firefox has no problem, but on the same sites Safari absolutely chokes.

Safari -> Empty Cache...

This often fixes a slowly responding Safari.
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post #44 of 69
8/29/06 at 11:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston

You know, I ought to send you my Console logs for pptp. It tries to Authenticate, but it doesn't accept the RECV commands, which is the problem. I have sent several bug reports to Apple, but nothing has been done about it.

That is the problem I have now.. *glares at VPN*
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post #45 of 69
8/30/06 at 12:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kickaha

Safari -> Empty Cache...

This often fixes a slowly responding Safari.

I'll give it a try... though I thought the whole point of the cache was to *speed up* browsing... emptying would actually slow it down, no? bwdik... anyhow, right now, the POS is at 755MB real and 2.7GB virtual memory, what a charmer...
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post #46 of 69
8/30/06 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiwai

give me reliability, security and stability

I agree with this, we here at work, are tired to wait till we are at > 10.X.7 to get some stable system, and then to have upgrade to 10.X+1 to start again with all the flaws, bugs and changes under the hood to break exsisting settings. This is in no way any progress!!!
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post #47 of 69
8/30/06 at 3:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rvamerongen

I agree with this, we here at work, are tired to wait till we are at > 10.X.7 to get some stable system, and then to have upgrade to 10.X+1 to start again with all the flaws, bugs and changes under the hood to break exsisting settings. This is in no way any progress!!!

If the .X.7+ releases are the only stable ones then why not wait until that rolls around to upgrade. We are talking a year or year and a half of waiting. That's not a big deal. Having said that, 10.4.4 is the first version of OS X I have used (I'm a newbie) and it seems quite stable. From what I hear, stability-wise, OS 10 is much better than OS 9. I'd call that progress. And, 10.4.7 has more functionality than 10.3.7 which had more functionality than 10.2.7. I'd call that progress also.
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post #48 of 69
8/30/06 at 4:09am
Quote:
Originally Posted by DGNR8

I just hope Apple just fix's what they screwed up as far as fire wire external hard drives. I know of 4 other people excluding myself that lost use of their FW HD after 10.4.7, which is un-acceptable. I have called Apple and asked when patch for this would be available, and I was told this is a known issue and at this time they have no solution. So if there is no solution in 10.4.8 I will have to replace both of my externals which is not right for any company to force a customer to re-invest due to there problem in there update.

After I lost my Firewire HDD because of a Panther update nearly a couple of years ago now, I swore that I would never use Firewire again for external disks. I have been USB2 ever since.
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post #49 of 69
8/30/06 at 6:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWine

I'll give it a try... though I thought the whole point of the cache was to *speed up* browsing... emptying would actually slow it down, no? bwdik... anyhow, right now, the POS is at 755MB real and 2.7GB virtual memory, what a charmer...

Simply quitting and relaunching it will clear that right up.

Safari was given more aggressive caching in 10.4.7 - meaning it chews up more memory, but is a bit Snappier(tm). The issue with the cache is that while yes, caching does speed up browsing, when the cache *database* becomes huge, it takes a while to spin through to find what you want. Also, it takes up memory, so if you're in a tight-VM situation, you might have to wait for it to be swapped in from disk, then searched, then the cache data fetched. The biggest culprit, IME, for causing strange slowdowns, is the caching of favicons, for some unknown reason. *shrug*

The fix is simple and relatively quick. (Quicker still is simply quitting Safari, deleting ~/Library/Caches/Safari in the Finder, then relaunching, but that makes some folks a bit nervous.) Hopefully it helps in your case.
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post #50 of 69
8/30/06 at 6:33am
Several thoughts. Apple has a Tech Note out pointing out that third-party plug-ins are a frequent cause of issues with Safari. From memory they suggest removing these from the StartUp Items and seeing how you get on. I have experienced Safari hogging the RAM, with the odd CPU hog. The latter seems to be JavaScript related in at least some cases. The former seems, in my experience, to only occur after leaving Safari up for extended periods of time. I'm talking about weeks--! It'll be interesting to see the impact the garbage collection in Leopard has on this sort of thing. Currently I'm taking a break from Safari and am using Opera 9.
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post #51 of 69
8/30/06 at 6:35am
You can also use Cocktail to tell Safari not to cache the favicons. Might try that myself! :-)
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post #52 of 69
8/30/06 at 6:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiBioinformatics

You can also use Cocktail to tell Safari not to cache the favicons. Might try that myself! :-)

I'm sure that'll clear up a good 500k of memory.
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post #53 of 69
8/30/06 at 7:44am
  • Kickaha
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It's not the memory use with favicons, it's the lookup algorithm, for some reason. Blasting the cache of them can have a strangely large relative speedup effect.
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post #54 of 69
8/30/06 at 7:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffy_Duck

Speaking of Vista, it is looking like they are going to start shipping by the end of the year. They are squashing bugs and optimizing code at a surprising rate if reviews of the latest builds are anything to go by.

Not from what I've heard. I just saw an article where the guy claimed the latest build was the absolute worst, buggiest release he's seen of an OS at this stage of its development. Unfortunately I don't have a link.

Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL

See, I've Told You That There's Going To Be Another "tiger" Update, But You Guys Wouldn't Listen To Me.

Who would that be? I think most people think it's likely we'll see more builds, considering leopard is months off. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - an "I told you so" intended for someone who's likely not even in this thread is a waste of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh

I am seriously considering switching back if Vista is even close to being as nice as OS X.

Well, if reports are to be believed, that's not bloody likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kresh

edit: I think the all-in-one is already hurting them based on last quarter numbers. Desktops were way down.

Desktops were way down because it was the quarter BEFORE they shipped the Mac Pros, so G5 tower sales were in the toilet. Right now, desktop sales are probably spiked. Plus, the mini and iMac are about due for updates, while the laptops were refreshed more recently. Another refresh, and iMac sales will spike again.

I'd love to see a midrange model too, but I think it's going a bit far to say that the imac is killing apple's desktop sales.
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post #55 of 69
8/30/06 at 7:50am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rvamerongen

I agree with this, we here at work, are tired to wait till we are at > 10.X.7 to get some stable system, and then to have upgrade to 10.X+1 to start again with all the flaws, bugs and changes under the hood to break exsisting settings. This is in no way any progress!!!

If you're waiting for the perfect release, you'll going to die first.

Fact: No software is perfect.

Corollary: All software has bugs.

Some you see, some you don't. Some you can live with, some you can't.

You have to decide whether a certain release has bugs that you simply cannot deal with, and then balance that against the new features you simply cannot live without.

I'm not sure what you define as a 'stable system', since I've considered OS X to pretty damned stable since the first day I installed it, back pre-10.0 dev builds. It wasn't polished until 10.2, but it was *stable* from day one, in my experience. Perhaps we just have different ideas of what 'stable' means. *shrug*
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post #56 of 69
8/30/06 at 7:52am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

Not from what I've heard. I just saw an article where the guy claimed the latest build was the absolute worst, buggiest release he's seen of an OS at this stage of its development. Unfortunately I don't have a link.

Paul Thurrot, but he's recanted with the latest build - apparently they did make a lot of progress.

Quote:
Who would that be? I think most people think it's likely we'll see more builds, considering leopard is months off. I'm not sure what point you're trying to make - an "I told you so" intended for someone who's likely not even in this thread is a waste of time.

Stephen started a thread a few days ago wanting to know when 10.4.8 was going to come out, so it could fix all the problems on his system. We tried walking him through fixes for the issues, but he wasn't interested, and instead wants to wait for Apple to magically take care of them all with 10.4.8. When we pointed out that there was no guarantee that 10.4.8 would do so, he jumped to thinking that we were saying that there would never be a 10.4.8 release. No, it doesn't make any sense to me either, but there it is.
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post #57 of 69
8/30/06 at 11:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWine

Really, nothing extraordinary... NYTimes.com, bbc, latimes, google news, dailyrotation.com, metafilter.com, linkfilter.com, amazon.com, demonoid.com, various forums, the occasional youtube, nothing special. The point is Firefox has no problem, but on the same sites Safari absolutely chokes.

Something's definitely not right there. Do you have any problems besides Safari's bizarre CPU usage?

For reference, I opened all those sites in tabs in a single window, and got:

Cheers,

Chris
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Cheers,

Chris
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post #58 of 69
8/30/06 at 12:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daffy_Duck

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/winvista_5536.asp

But it still has an ugly and cluttered (and wordy) interface...

"Ugly and cluttered" only begin to describe it... It took them how many years to come up with THAT???
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post #59 of 69
8/30/06 at 2:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kaiwai

, but who gives a shit about 'backwards compatibility' - give me reliability, security and stability, and quite frankly, leave it up to the market place to lynch companies who fail to release Vista compatible applications or updates to their current applications in a timely manner.
.

Yeah if I've got CS2 for windows and it crashes when I upgrade to Vista, no big whoop right? I got a feeling there are a lot of users who don't see it your way.
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post #60 of 69
8/30/06 at 4:53pm
Test System: iBook 14" G4 with 640MB Ram.



I loaded 6 heavy flash sites. The memory footprint increased due to all the graphic preloading, yet it is quite reasonable considering the sites and content cached.
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post #61 of 69
8/31/06 at 3:29pm
DON'T EVER TELL ME TO KNOCK IT OFF ON THIS FORUM EVER AGAIN!!!
(*APPLE INC.'S OS X*) (*VERSION*) (*#10.7.3+BETA#*) (*BUILD*)
(*#11D36#*) (*ROARING LION USER*)
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(*#11D36#*) (*ROARING LION USER*)
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post #62 of 69
8/31/06 at 3:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL

DON'T EVER TELL ME TO KNOCK IT OFF ON THIS FORUM EVER AGAIN!!!

Do you treat all authorities like this?
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post #63 of 69
8/31/06 at 3:40pm
No, But I'm Getting Very Tired Of Many People Insualting Me Everytime I Type On This Forum.
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post #64 of 69
8/31/06 at 4:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL

No, But I'm Getting Very Tired Of Many People Insualting Me Everytime I Type On This Forum.

Stephen, maybe if you showed you were actually considering people's opinions and the help they're trying to give you instead of deciding they were insulting you, you'd get a little more respect.

I'm just trying to give you some friendly advice. You receive what you give, Stephen.
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post #65 of 69
9/1/06 at 6:39am
Flounder is right. Brush off those who don't care to understand your situation and show appreciation for those trying to help. That's my advice.

How long, on average, does it take you to type a message? Just curious.
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post #66 of 69
9/1/06 at 8:42am
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL

No, But I'm Getting Very Tired Of Many People Insualting Me Everytime I Type On This Forum.

I think that most people are concerned that you don't seem to be paying any attention to anything we say to you.

You will never find a single person on this Web site that said 10.4.8 wouldn't be released. If you show me a post that proves me wrong, I will happily apologize.

I'll say it straight up so you can quote me: Yes, 10.4.8 WILL be released soon. Yes, 10.4.9 will almost certainly be released too. No, these updates MAY NOT fix your system's problems.

Have you repaired permissions and followed the other steps that we suggested in the other thread?
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post #67 of 69
9/1/06 at 1:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by STEPHEN RAY SNELL

DON'T EVER TELL ME TO KNOCK IT OFF ON THIS FORUM EVER AGAIN!!!

Since you are going on a little vacation, I won't have to.
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post #68 of 69
9/2/06 at 9:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston

You know, I ought to send you my Console logs for pptp. It tries to Authenticate, but it doesn't accept the RECV commands, which is the problem. I have sent several bug reports to Apple, but nothing has been done about it.

Any luck on VPN connections in 10.4.8? I'm getting the same thing and wonder if it is a combo 10.4.7 + security update issue that might be fixed in 10.4.8.

I can watch the logs at both end of the VPN connection -- and sure enough, the VPN connection sends:

Code:

sent [CHAP Success id=0xb3 "S=D8E3E5B601F66A97F8A86FE72B7BD13520554E8E M=Access granted"]



The Mac doesn't log this, but yet logs everything else that is sent. its as if it is not being seen.
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post #69 of 69
9/2/06 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by FineWine

How about this... re: resource hungry - right now, I just fired up activity monitor and here we have typical POS Safari resource use - CPU 38.2%, Real Memory: 564.36MB... WTF??? I have ONE window open and 4 tabs. My Safari is stock Apple build no fancy add-ons or plugins, just what came with the original install plus updates. This on an the last iteration of 1.33ghz 1.5GB RAM iBook (see sig) running 10.4.7 with all the patches and up to date. This has been going on for as long as I've had this notebook (8 months) through numerous Tiger updates.

Nothing, and I mean NOTHING internet related takes as much resources as this POS. I have Azureus running with several torrents dl and seeding and it's typically around 8% CPU and 90MB RAM. And that's a Java based app which is by it's nature "hard" on resources, and doing about the most intense stuff you can with the internet... basically downloading and uploading data streams at full speed with rapid changes up and down. It can't TOUCH the kind of resoures the POS Safari rutinely takes up just for the privilege of running one window with a couple of tabs.

And performance? Wow. Click on a link - and watch the spinning rainbow wheel of death, 5 seconds, 10 seconds - finally there. Funny, I go to the very same websites using Firefox, Boom as Steve would say - I'm there. Why is Firefox so fast and Safari so slow when going from link to link?

Also, I've never had Firefox crash on me (Ok, not since 1.5), but with Safari, that happens pretty frequently on often innocuous websites - I click for "inbox" in Gmail, CRASH - poof! There goes Safari! Or it'll freeze first, then crash. P-O-S.

Is that detailed enough?

Dude you just described all my experiences with Firefox... Firefox almost always crashed on me until finally it would freeze on launch and finally ended up screwing up the whole system and I had to do a clean install \

Now I'm using Firefox beta 2.0b2 and its a huge improvement... anyways during the time Firefox didn't work I found Safari to be a great replacement, it only it had all the stuff I liked about Firefox I would still use it more

Right now I use FireFox about 80% of the time and Safari the remaining 20% but I like both
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