or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Microsoft's Zune said to be more bark than bite
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Microsoft's Zune said to be more bark than bite

post #1 of 72
Thread Starter 
Microsoft's upcoming Zune digital media player appears to be little more than a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat player, which itself has enjoyed only marginal success, one Wall Street analyst says.

Recently, specs and photos of the highly-anticipated Zune device turned up through FCC filings and other industry sources, offering industry analysts and pundits alike a glimpse of what Microsoft has in store for this year's holiday shopping season. However, few have are impressed with the device.

"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."

In a research note, Wu said Zune shares similar characteristics to other would-be iPod knockoffs, which have so far failed to chip away at Apple's dominant share of the digital media player marker.

"Like the Chocolate phone from LG and other vendors, the Zune includes a fake click-wheel that does not scroll nor is touch pressure sensitive making navigation difficult, particularly for users with large music, video, and photo libraries," he said. "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents. Of all the companies challenging the iPod, he believes Sony has come the closest to creating a pleasant experience with its Walkman cell phones. Still, he notes that the success of the Walkman phones have had little impact on Apple's ability to maintain and grow its share of the market.

In his note to clients, the analyst also questions Microsoft's decision to target Zune only at the high-end digital media player market, which accounts for only 20 to 25 percent of the players sold.

"Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner," Wu said. "While this makes sense to aim after Apple's dominant video iPod, we believe Microsoft is leaving out 75 to 80 percent of the market opportunity in the midrange and low-end that is currently dominated by iPod nano, iPod shuffle, SanDisk, and Sony Walkman phones."

In the analyst's opinion, Microsoft's entry into the digital media player market is akin to waging a civil war with its partners. He says it pits the company in direct competition with its friendlies that have supported its Windows Media format.

"While the focus is on Apple, we believe this move will likely have a much larger competitive impact on Creative, SanDisk, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, iRiver, Archos, and others," he said. "We believe Microsoft's action could also make partners think twice before deciding to work with Microsoft on future projects."

Wu sees the digital media player market as divided into two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media.Â* While he believes Zune will likely see some success due to Microsoft's strong brand name and strong marketing effort, he believes that success will be limited by its lack of differentiation versus other Windows players.

"We believe iPod + iTunes is positioned to be the Walkman of the portable media space," Wu wrote in conclusion. "Walkman maintained its dominance over a 15 - 20 year period despite countless competitors trying to create a 'Walkman killer.' We believe iPod = Walkman for the 2000s."

Wu maintains a "Buy" rating on shares of Apple Computer with a price target of $75. The analyst does not provide coverage of Microsoft.
post #2 of 72
"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."

Woo Hoo Wu!! Tell it like it is!
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #3 of 72
The only reason people don't admit Micro$oft is a completely failed company, is because of one of more of the following:
1. Admitting M$ as a failure, says that they are also failures for buying into it.
2. They just have too much invested, and needs M$ to pull it together or they are bankrupt.
3. They are just stupid sheep, and always will be.
4. They count on a paycheck from M$ employment or related services.

Argue that.

-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #4 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by WuMan

"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."

well, before dismissing the zune as just a "repackaged gigabeat", I'll just wait until i try it at a best buy. all we have so far is blurry pictures of purported zune devices on styrofoam blocks.
post #5 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

The only reason people don't admit Micro$oft is a completely failed company, is because of one of more of the following:
1. Admitting M$ as a failure, says that they are also failures for buying into it.
2. They just have too much invested, and needs M$ to pull it together or they are bankrupt.
3. They are just stupid sheep, and always will be.
4. They count on a paycheck from M$ employment or related services.

Argue that.


While it's apparent that Microsoft has made a ton of mistakes of late, it's really difficult to argue that they are a failed company. It's difficult to argue that any company with the command of the market that they own is failed.
You can lead a horse to water, but if you can make him float on his back, then you've got something.
Reply
You can lead a horse to water, but if you can make him float on his back, then you've got something.
Reply
post #6 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by rmongold

While it's apparent that Microsoft has made a ton of mistakes of late, it's really difficult to argue that they are a failed company. It's difficult to argue that any company with the command of the market that they own is failed.

Because it has popularity, does not mean it is good, or rightly.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #7 of 72
I think no matter how good a newly released mp3 player is today it is pretty much too late. The iPod has come to define mp3 player and hopefully Apple will keep on re-defining it. It's time for all these tech companies to put their brans and money into the next big thing.
post #8 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

The only reason people don't admit Micro$oft is a completely failed company, is because of one of more of the following:
1. Admitting M$ as a failure, says that they are also failures for buying into it.
2. They just have too much invested, and needs M$ to pull it together or they are bankrupt.
3. They are just stupid sheep, and always will be.
4. They count on a paycheck from M$ employment or related services.

Argue that.


Okay.
1 - The major goal of Microsoft is to make money
2 - They typically average around 3 billion USD profit per quarter
That's a failure!?
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
post #9 of 72
In early human history, there were people of all sorts selling "Snake Oil" products. Or in other words, things and remedies that were designed knowingly to deceive the purchaser into buying something they knew would not work as advertised. These people and their products were the popular, as everyone was using them.
The proved to be popular, but not good or rightly.
Today is no different, and Microsoft is the king of deception (Excluding government and the media), and Microsoft is a master at keeping you as a customer.
But they are not good, and not rightly.
Eventually they will pass.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #10 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

...so far failed to chip away at Apple's dominate share...

Just a note. The word is "dominant", not "dominate" ("dominate" is a verb). I've seen this mistake repeatedly on this site so I thought I'd mention it.
post #11 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcod

Okay.
1 - The major goal of Microsoft is to make money
2 - They typically average around 3 billion USD profit per quarter
That's a failure!?

Successes are measured differently. If Money and wealth determines your success, and it doesn't matter how you achieve it, (The end justifies the means), then they are in fact successful.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #12 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormchild

Just a note. The word is "dominant", not "dominate" ("dominate" is a verb). I've seen this mistake repeatedly on this site so I thought I'd mention it.

Although you are obviously correct, it won't help.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #13 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb

I think no matter how good a newly released mp3 player is today it is pretty much too late. The iPod has come to define mp3 player and hopefully Apple will keep on re-defining it. It's time for all these tech companies to put their brans and money into the next big thing.

Amen.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #14 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

In early human history, there were people of all sorts selling "Snake Oil" products. Or in other words, things and remedies that were designed knowingly to deceive the purchaser into buying something they knew would not work as advertised. These people and their products were the popular, as everyone was using them.
The proved to be popular, but not good or rightly.
Today is no different, and Microsoft is the king of deception (Excluding government and the media), and Microsoft is a master at keeping you as a customer.
But they are not good, and not rightly.
Eventually they will pass.

If that's supposed to be some form of rebuttal, it's a bit weak...
You claim that Microsoft will die because they are "unethical" in their advertising.
Yet, visit any market in a 3rd world country, and you will still find people selling the things you mentioned. And the government and media are more powerful than ever.
In fact, looking at the "evidence" you've given, it would seem Microsoft is here to stay for a looong time.
Perhaps they will lose some market share over the years, but they will not die, at least for the foreseeable future.
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
post #15 of 72
Now that Zune has been shown to be a repackaged already in existence mp3 player, I am curious to see what the "Music Service" part of the picture will be like. I posted before that M$ has historically not been able to release products in a timely manner. I predicted that they would have to pull from already designed products to be able to manufacture, package, promote and release an ipod killer and itunes music store killer by Oct. or Nov. to meet the holiday buying season as they claim they will. I also predicted that they would use URGE as the "Store" part of the puzzle.
Nothing "New" here. Just the same old stuff, with a different face. Kinda like "Vista". Or should I say XP sp4 instead.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #16 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

Successes are measured differently. If Money and wealth determines your success, and it doesn't matter how you achieve it, (The end justifies the means), then they are in fact successful.

You are stretching the analogy. Maybe you would like to argue that Betamax was a success? Microsoft is clearly a successful company as a whole whether or not you like it. Several of their initiatives have failed, but that happens with any company.

Frankly, all your posts so far smell of rampant fanboyism. If you don't like the evidence, you reframe the argument. You also are taking this "repackage" rumor as a fact.
post #17 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

Successes are measured differently. If Money and wealth determines your success, and it doesn't matter how you achieve it, (The end justifies the means), then they are in fact successful.

Well, not to pick on you or anything...
But since it's probably fair to assume Microsoft does measure its success via profits, didn't you just contradict your first comment?
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
2.0 GHz MBP / 2GB RAM / 256 MB / 120 GB
Reply
post #18 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcod

If that's supposed to be some form of rebuttal, it's a bit weak...
You claim that Microsoft will die because they are "unethical" in their advertising.
Yet, visit any market in a 3rd world country, and you will still find people selling the things you mentioned. And the government and media are more powerful than ever.
In fact, looking at the "evidence" you've given, it would seem Microsoft is here to stay for a looong time.
Perhaps they will lose some market share over the years, but they will not die, at least for the foreseeable future.

Not that they are unethical in their advertising, as you concluded, and not that they are leaving anytime soon, but that their dominance in this technological age will fade away, as it is starting to now.
Remember Chaos before order.
And I really was not giving you a rebuttal, but more of an observation as a reminder to all those people that seem to think they are indestructible.
As much as I loth Microsoft, I feel for their ignorance and arrogance. It seems that with their complete dominance in the market, and all of their money and resources, that they could seemingly easily maintain that for centuries. But their lack of innovation and invention, and lack of company focus and greed are becoming their downfall. One cannot hardly argue that if Steve Jobs (or someone like him) were to be the successor to Bill Gates as CEO for Microsoft, that Micro$oft would do a 180 degree turn, and most likely maintain their dominance for many years to come.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #19 of 72
It's funny everyone keeps shitting on MS but no one notices the real winner here is Toshiba. They get to sell the basically the same thing and take NONE of the blame.

MS gets all that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
Quote:
Originally Posted by appleinsider vBulletin Message

You have been banned for the following reason:
Three personal attacks in one post. Congratulations.
Date the ban will be lifted:...
Reply
post #20 of 72
I thought that Zune was the name for the whole thing, not just the device. Huh?
post #21 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

The only reason people don't admit Micro$oft is a completely failed company, is because of one of more of the following:
1. Admitting M$ as a failure, says that they are also failures for buying into it.
2. They just have too much invested, and needs M$ to pull it together or they are bankrupt.
3. They are just stupid sheep, and always will be.
4. They count on a paycheck from M$ employment or related services.

Argue that.


What an utterly stupid post. You're 14 right?
post #22 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by andrewcod

Well, not to pick on you or anything...
But since it's probably fair to assume Microsoft does measure its success via profits, didn't you just contradict your first comment?

I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #23 of 72
Is this even news? How could it possibly be any-other way?
post #24 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57

What an utterly stupid post. You're 14 right?

And you work for M$. Right?
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #25 of 72
Heard that Zune Before.
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
-ReCompile-
"No matter where you go, There you are"
- Buckaroo Bonzai
Reply
post #26 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

Now that Zune has been shown to be a repackaged already in existence mp3 player, I am curious to see what the "Music Service" part of the picture will be like. I posted before that M$ has historically not been able to release products in a timely manner. I predicted that they would have to pull from already designed products to be able to manufacture, package, promote and release an ipod killer and itunes music store killer by Oct. or Nov. to meet the holiday buying season as they claim they will. I also predicted that they would use URGE as the "Store" part of the puzzle.
Nothing "New" here. Just the same old stuff, with a different face. Kinda like "Vista". Or should I say XP sp4 instead.

You didn't predict anything. Urge+Zune was known for quite awhile now.

And please, unless you have used Windows Vista, you have no business echoing everyone else.

You're 14, right?
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
"Humankind -- despite its artistic pretensions, its sophistication, and its many accomplishments -- owes its existence to a six-inch layer of topsoil and the fact that it rains."
Reply
post #27 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Microsoft's upcoming Zune digital media player appears to be little more than a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat player, which itself has enjoyed only marginal success, one Wall Street analyst says.

Recently, specs and photos of the highly-anticipated Zune device turned up through FCC filings and other industry sources, offering industry analysts and pundits alike a glimpse of what Microsoft has in store for this year's holiday shopping season. However, few have are impressed with the device.

"While we have great respect for Microsoft, we are frankly underwhelmed by the much-hyped Zune device," American Technology Research analyst Shaw Wu told clients on Wednesday. "It appears that the Zune is essentially a repackaged Toshiba Gigabeat that has seen limited success."

In a research note, Wu said Zune shares similar characteristics to other would-be iPod knockoffs, which have so far failed to chip away at Apple's dominate share of the digital media player marker.

"Like the Chocolate phone from LG and other vendors, the Zune includes a fake click-wheel that does not scroll nor is touch pressure sensitive making navigation difficult, particularly for users with large music, video, and photo libraries," he said. "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents. Of all the companies challenging the iPod, he believes Sony has come the closest to creating a pleasant experience with its Walkman cell phones. Still, he notes that the success of the Walkman phones have had little impact on Apple's ability to maintain and grow its share of the market.

In his note to clients, the analyst also questions Microsoft's decision to target Zune only at the high-end digital media player market, which accounts for only 20 to 25 percent of the players sold.

"Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner," Wu said. "While this makes sense to aim after Apple's dominant video iPod, we believe Microsoft is leaving out 75 to 80 percent of the market opportunity in the midrange and low-end that is currently dominated by iPod nano, iPod shuffle, SanDisk, and Sony Walkman phones."

In the analyst's opinion, Microsoft's entry into the digital media player market is akin to waging a civil war with its partners. He says it pits the company in direct competition with its friendlies that have supported its Windows Media format.

"While the focus is on Apple, we believe this move will likely have a much larger competitive impact on Creative, SanDisk, Sony, Toshiba, Samsung, iRiver, Archos, and others," he said. "We believe Microsoft's action could also make partners think twice before deciding to work with Microsoft on future projects."

Wu sees the digital media player market as divided into two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media.* While he believes Zune will likely see some success due to Microsoft's strong brand name and strong marketing effort, he believes that success will be limited by its lack of differentiation versus other Windows players.

"We believe iPod + iTunes is positioned to be the Walkman of the portable media space," Wu wrote in conclusion. "Walkman maintained its dominance over a 15 - 20 year period despite countless competitors trying to create a 'Walkman killer.' We believe iPod = Walkman for the 2000s."

Wu maintains a "Buy" rating on shares of Apple Computer with a price target of $75. The analyst does not provide coverage of Microsoft.


Sadly, I think it will sell a good deal of units (won't make a big dent in iPod sales) ... it will prove my idea that a lot of people would buy a pile of feces with wires sticking out of it as long as it said Microsoft (xbox 360 excepted. that thing does own.)
post #28 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

Because it has popularity, does not mean it is good, or rightly.

And what does that has to do with success?

Don't consider "goodliness" as any corporate measure. Ben and Jerry sold out. Google's "Do no evil." has been shown to be a crock.

Success is measured by sales, and profits. don't forget that.

What the future will bring, we don't know. but, for now, MS is the most profitable large corporation on the planet.
post #29 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw Wu

We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine.

Ever heard of patents, Wu?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaw Wu

Microsoft appears to be targeting the high-end space with its $300 pricing, 30GB microdrive storage, Wi-Fi capability, and FM tuner

There is no such thing (please correct me if I am wrong) as a 30Gb microdrive. The biggest I know of is 8Gb. What world is Woo living on...?
post #30 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

I had a personal conversation with Mr. Bill Gates himself in the 1990s. The topic was advancing technology, and why M$ seemed to make some of the simplest things so difficult. Bill told me that "If it were up to me, I would not advance technology anymore than the competition forced me to. I would trickle the existing technology out slowly over the next twenty years or more."
He had also stated that keeping things complex to use renders him Billions of dollars in profit a year training companies and their employees to run their stuff.
I feel that money is good, but a company with such power and control in how we as humans advance our technology, that their is also a responsibility to advance people as well as the profits.

I doubt very much that Bill Gates would discuss any such thing with you. Whatever we might think of his business practices, we can all agree that he is far too smart to tell some unknown individual that sort of thing.
post #31 of 72
Quote:
Heard that Zune Before.

Yep. This really is starting to sound like a Much Ado About Nothing...
post #32 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg

There is no such thing (please correct me if I am wrong) as a 30Gb microdrive. The biggest I know of is 8Gb. What world is Woo living on...?

If you're going to correct him on such counts, at least learn to spell units right. 30 Gb aren't even 4 GBs, so yes, a 30 Gb microdrive does exist.
post #33 of 72
Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's but now, we live in a different tech world and MS desperately wants to be seen as "cool" again. It's like a bank or a steel mill trying to be hip and cool - it's just not in their DNA. Their other problem is they are still living off their arrogance from the 1990's when they ruled the world and people quaked at their edicts and pronouncements - yes, you could quibble that a lot of it was illegal but what's done is done and it's a new era. They don't quite get it when companies like Apple, Google, Cisco, Yahoo, Linux*, etc just basically IGNORE them - the gravest sin. All around, people are creating markets and technology WITHOUT them or without MS OS - they just don't understand how it got to be, partially pretending it's not true (listen to Ballmer's rants) and deep down confused.

They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...

ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.

They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...

And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).

Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.

Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.

They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?

*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.
post #34 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

In early human history, there were people of all sorts selling "Snake Oil" products. Or in other words, things and remedies that were designed knowingly to deceive the purchaser into buying something they knew would not work as advertised. These people and their products were the popular, as everyone was using them.
The proved to be popular, but not good or rightly.

That argument fails in the case of MS vs Apple because both products work "well enough" to achieve what was desired by consumers from purchasing the product in the first place. "Snake oil" doesn't really apply to this situation.

It's the same as the Beta vs VHS battle. Everyone knows Beta was superior quality, but VHS won out because it worked "well enough" for people (and had more industry backing).

And good or rightly are irrelevant in the world of business. For every well intentioned startup, I'll show you a potential "evil empire".
 
Reply
 
Reply
post #35 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelkin

Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" in the late 1980's and most of the 1990's but now, we live in a different tech world and MS desperately wants to be seen as "cool" again. It's like a bank or a steel mill trying to be hip and cool - it's just not in their DNA. Their other problem is they are still living off their arrogance from the 1990's when they ruled the world and people quaked at their edicts and pronouncements - yes, you could quibble that a lot of it was illegal but what's done is done and it's a new era. They don't quite get it when companies like Apple, Google, Cisco, Yahoo, Linux*, etc just basically IGNORE them - the gravest sin. All around, people are creating markets and technology WITHOUT them or without MS OS - they just don't understand how it got to be, partially pretending it's not true (listen to Ballmer's rants) and deep down confused.

They see that that consumers now rule the roost in driving tech innovation so of course, they try to jump on board as many bandwagons as possible - Talking Barney's, watches, Bob OS, PDA's, Cell phones, online music, online movies, home networking webtv, MSN, etc, etc ...

ALL OUTRIGHT FAILURES - especially considering the money they've already spent ... for instance, they've been developing a "cable set top box" for nearly 10 years - right now, they have around 10,000 boxes out ther testing in a universe of 90 MILLION cable boxes.

They don't get consumers and are just not built for understanding conusmers. They bring in outsiders who claim they know what they are doing but right now, only people without new ideas are willing to work for MS - like the old Dreamcast guy who implemented the EXACT same strategy for Xbox 360. If we're early, we'll be #1! (never mind Dreamcast. Jaguar and Sega CD) or this last Xmas, who turns $100 million dollars worth of PR into nothing? After the initial shipment, did anyone see an Xbox until early THIS summer? 8 months later? Yes, there is Pr value in creating an artificial shortage but Sony was flying in PS2 by the plane load (also on the news) when it launched but MS just figured we're like enterprise, we will buy it whenever ... the Xbox 360 stack at costco is larger then the PS2 stack ...

And speaking of Xbox, are shareholders & enterprise customers happy they are overpaying so MS can spend over $10 BILLION on selling 25 million XBoxes ($400 per?).

Most people cannot afford successes like that, only MS buiilt on the backs of their shareholders and enterprse customers.

Not every company is built to sell everything to every consumer. Would you bank at M&M's? Would you buy insurance from Mattel? Would you buy a TV from Cisco? Same thing with MS.

They are wasting time and shareholder's money by trying to do things they've haven't a clue about. Yes, they have plenty of cash and will continue to generate that cash but shareholders should ask - what's the point when you have failed at EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT since 1995 to sell outside enterprise? Isn't it clear by now they do NOT know what they are doing?

*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.

Well put about banking @ M&M's (I am assuming the candy, which would be Mars company), etc. That is exactly Microsoft's flawed line of thinking
post #36 of 72
Shaw Wu wrote: "two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media."

Wrong.
There is a 3rd camp.
Music with no DRM and played on the plyer of your choice.
post #37 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes

Shaw Wu wrote: "two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media."

Wrong.
There is a 3rd camp.
Music with no DRM and played on the plyer of your choice.

And there's oh so many stores that sell such music, right?

Right?

Yeah.
post #38 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

And you work for M$. Right?

oh snaps!
post #39 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

And there's oh so many stores that sell such music, right?

Right?

Yeah.

Best Buy, Target, Walmart and Amazon to name a few, and that's just the US chains.
post #40 of 72
Kids kids...shut up...lets all bond together knowing that the zune will be probably as profitable as the zen micro and that will be that. We can all take comfort knowing all of our Protected AACs wont be turning into WM Play Fo' Sho'.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Microsoft's Zune said to be more bark than bite