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Microsoft's Zune said to be more bark than bite - Page 2

post #41 of 72
"We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Isn't the click-wheel patented?
post #42 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Best Buy, Target, Walmart and Amazon to name a few, and that's just the US chains.

Really? Cause http://musicdownloads.walmart.com/ looks an awful lot like Windows Media to me.

(No, retail doesn't count.)
post #43 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

(No, retail doesn't count.)

Why not? You stated no such restriction when you originally asked. It is music that is readily available, generally with no DRM. That, and used CD stores, is where I get my music.
post #44 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Why not? You stated no such restriction when you originally asked. It is music that is readily available, generally with no DRM.

Because the original statement was:
Quote:
Wu sees the digital media player market as divided into two camps: iPod + iTunes and Windows Media.

Compact discs are a different market.
post #45 of 72
I didn't know that CDs weren't digital media. Silly me.
post #46 of 72
*throws towel*
post #47 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

If you're going to correct him on such counts, at least learn to spell units right. 30 Gb aren't even 4 GBs, so yes, a 30 Gb microdrive does exist.

Damn gigabits... Ok, ok, no such thing as a 240Gb microdrive 8)
post #48 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerryb

I think no matter how good a newly released mp3 player is today it is pretty much too late. The iPod has come to define mp3 player and hopefully Apple will keep on re-defining it. It's time for all these tech companies to put their brans and money into the next big thing.

By the same token, would you say that Windows has come to define desktop OS and Apple should put their brains and money into the next big thing?
post #49 of 72
Why is it the more I hear about this product the less I like it. I suppose that's M$ for you in every category.

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply

 

 

Quote:
The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

Reply
post #50 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg

Ever heard of patents, Wu?

Perhaps instead of jumping in with glee with criticism, you could actually read the entire article, word, for word.

"Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents."

Quote:
There is no such thing (please correct me if I am wrong) as a 30Gb microdrive. The biggest I know of is 8Gb. What world is Woo living on...?

Many people are referring to the iPods as having Micro drives, even though they aren't. Before the 1" form factor was released, the 1.8" drives were referred to that way.
post #51 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Best Buy, Target, Walmart and Amazon to name a few, and that's just the US chains.

Jeff. you jnow he didn't mean that. Though, now he may say he did.
post #52 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbelkin

Every company has a culture. MS was built and brilliant at selling to Enterprise. That was considered "cool" ........
............

.............

they do NOT know what they are doing?

*yes, linux is not a company but to MS, they considered it one.


What a great phukin post! Not sure how exactly true it is, but there has to some truth to it. I've never quite seen a post making this point. Mostly you get posts how Microsoft sucks and blows and stuff... which gets lame because obviously they are doing something right in the business world. I think jbelkin's post shows just how a very successfull company can be such as failure at the same time. Thanks.

IQ78
post #53 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

"We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Isn't the click-wheel patented?

Re-read the article.
post #54 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolchak

By the same token, would you say that Windows has come to define desktop OS and Apple should put their brains and money into the next big thing?

If you compare it to the OS market, it means that Apple won't get a marketshare in the high two digit range (though we can hope).
post #55 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Many people are referring to the iPods as having Micro drives, even though they aren't. Before the 1" form factor was released, the 1.8" drives were referred to that way.

Picking nits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive
Quote:
The Microdrive is a brand name for a miniature 1-inch hard disk designed to fit in a Compact Flash (CF) Type II slot.

Microdrives*(1-inch drives) actually existed before 1.8-inch drives.
post #56 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Picking nits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive


Microdrives*(1-inch drives) actually existed before 1.8-inch drives.

I have the original one. But Wiki isn't totally correct either, as is usual. There are numerous errors in the article. The most glaring is the lack of updated info on flash drives. But, there are others as well.
post #57 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

And there's oh so many stores that sell such music, right?

Right?

Yeah.

brick and mortar stores. then you rip your own mp3s.
post #58 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Perhaps instead of jumping in with glee with criticism, you could actually read the entire article, word, for word.

"Wu continues to believe that replicating the iPod + iTunes digital franchise is an extremely difficult endeavor in which most competitors are unlikely to succeed without infringing on Apple's patents."

Yes, I did read it all. Earlier in the article, Wu seems to wonder why they haven't copied the scroll wheel: "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Maybe you should read and understand what people have written before trying to flame them.
post #59 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg

Yes, I did read it all. Earlier in the article, Wu seems to wonder why they haven't copied the scroll wheel: "We find it interesting that Microsoft also opted to replicate an iPod-look like most others, but failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel and powerful catalog engine."

Maybe you should read and understand what people have written before trying to flame them.

That's absurd. You fail to read, and understand the article, and when it's brought to your attention, you can't just say that you missed it?

You'll get a lot of that here. Get used to it.
post #60 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

That's absurd. You fail to read, and understand the article, and when it's brought to your attention, you can't just say that you missed it?

You'll get a lot of that here. Get used to it.

Actually, I read that part twice, to make sure that what I was writing was correct. To me, Wu seems to say "[MS] failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel", then later answers his own question by saying about patent infringement. I was simply wondering why Wu even thought about MS copying the click-wheel, when copying it would be obvious patent infringement.
post #61 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

And you work for M$. Right?

Do you get paid by the post?
post #62 of 72
I think he's (Wu) saying he finds it interesting MS opted for a scroll wheel looking control, but one that doesn't work like a real one, rather than doing something different (not that they should have patent infringed). It does seem a pretty good way to draw attention to your weaknesses. It looks like an iPod but it doesn't work properly.
post #63 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Picking nits:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microdrive


Microdrives*(1-inch drives) actually existed before 1.8-inch drives.

I thought one of the earliest uses promoted for the original PC Card slot was a 1.8-inch drive. I think they started with a 20MB capacity.
post #64 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasondotcom

It looks like an iPod but it doesn't work properly.


Heheh! Reminds me of Vista, looks like OS X, but doesn't work properly.
post #65 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg

Ever heard of patents, Wu?

Most likely he has, considering he mentioned them in the sentence after the one you quoted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Isn't the click-wheel patented?

And here's another one. Did AI update this article and add that next sentence later, or can people just not read?


Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I didn't know that CDs weren't digital media. Silly me.

I can't wait to see you try and insert a CD into an mp3 player.
post #66 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

Most likely he has, considering he mentioned them in the sentence after the one you quoted.

As I said, why even mention copying the click-wheel if you're going to talk about patent infringements in the next sentence?
post #67 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

I can't wait to see you try and insert a CD into an mp3 player.

Well, you generally have to have the player connected to a computer anyways in order to move files to it so the difference isn't that significant.

If one wants an internet music file service that doesn't do DRM, there's eMusic. It won't have anything from the big music cartel though.
post #68 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Well, you generally have to have the player connected to a computer anyways in order to move files to it so the difference isn't that significant.

If one wants an internet music file service that doesn't do DRM, there's eMusic. It won't have anything from the big music cartel though.

There are many other online digital music stores that are legit and don't use any DRM that distribute non-mainstream electronic music. For DJs who use software playback devices DRM isn't supported. Serato Scratch Live is a popular one. Here are a few of the stores:

www.beatport.com
www.tidydigital.com
www.trackitdown.net
www.imodownload.com
post #69 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Elijahg

Actually, I read that part twice, to make sure that what I was writing was correct. To me, Wu seems to say "[MS] failed in replicating one of the key pieces of the unique iPod experience with its scrolling click-wheel", then later answers his own question by saying about patent infringement. I was simply wondering why Wu even thought about MS copying the click-wheel, when copying it would be obvious patent infringement.

What Wu is doing, is stating what is on everyone's mind. That MS (and others) have tried everything to take sales away from the iPod, but failed. That they are so overwhelmed by the lack of success, no matter how they try to differentiate themselves, that they have finally decided to at least copy the look, even if they can't copy the functionality. Then he points out, for those who might not realize it, and are wondering why no one has duplicated the actual click-scrollwheel, that Apple has it patented.

You would be surprised at just how many people ask why other companies don't make a scrollwheel as well.

While most people writing on web boards know this, most people do not.

That's why what these analysts say, seems obvious to us, even though it isn't. They aren't speaking to us, they are speaking to investors, who understand what the fundamentals of a company must be, but who are not technologically sophisticated.

Also, many people here make comments about what should be, only after the companies who track these matters release their data to the publicafter their clients get the FULL reports, and have had time to digest them.

This information goes around the web sites so many times in a short while that people forget where they first saw it, and where it actually came from.
post #70 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hujib

There are many other online digital music stores that are legit and don't use any DRM that distribute non-mainstream electronic music. For DJs who use software playback devices DRM isn't supported. Serato Scratch Live is a popular one. Here are a few of the stores:

www.beatport.com
www.tidydigital.com
www.trackitdown.net
www.imodownload.com

That's very true, and I've looked at some of those sites, and others. But, when we speak of music, we speak of music that most people will want, and those sites have very little of that.

When I'm offered something that's free, and it happens on a regular basic because I'm on a lot of mailing lists from my businesses, I don't accept the offers if I don't want the product.

What good is music that has no DRM, if you don't want it?

The reason why this music has no DRM is because few people want it, and they are hoping that by having no DRM they will sell, or sometimes give away, more of the music then they otherwise would.

But the sales of those sites are miniscule compared to the DRM sites, even those that are not iTunes.

People with less desirable products have no choice but to give a better deal.

That's called competition.
post #71 of 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

Because it has popularity, does not mean it is good, or rightly.

What the heck does that MEAN?

Rightly?

Call me crazy, but calling a thing "rightly" means absolutely nothing to me. Is "rightly" not an adverb?

oh well. carry on.
post #72 of 72
Coming Zune? Really?

I think this says it all...

www.leavingzune.com
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