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Intel's Merom to power Apple's next-gen iMacs - Page 6

post #201 of 238
You're complaining about teenage girls walking into your room???

Anyway, about the screens, if apple are ordering enough 23" screens to put in iMacs as well as Cinema Displays now, then thats a big increase in their order, and probably cheaper per unit than when they were just for the Cinema Displays, it all counts to getting the price down for the 23" iMac. So here's hoping for a straight swap from 17/20" to 20/23" at the same prices :P . 17" for education.
post #202 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajprice

You're complaining about teenage girls walking into your room???

If I were 16, it would be heaven, but I'm 56, and while I like her friends, it's not the same thing.

Quote:
Anyway, about the screens, if apple are ordering enough 23" screens to put in iMacs as well as Cinema Displays now, then thats a big increase in their order, and probably cheaper per unit than when they were just for the Cinema Displays, it all counts to getting the price down for the 23" iMac. So here's hoping for a straight swap from 17/20" to 20/23" at the same prices :P . 17" for education.

As I said earlier, LCD panels fell by 33% this year, and are expected to fall by another 33% before too long.

If Apple does the right calculations, and can take advantage of the future drop, they might be able to come out with models that use the larger sizes for the same prices as the current ones.

But, Apple knows better than we do just what is possible in pricing.
post #203 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Sigh! You know, these site names get more confusing all the time. I'm trying to respond in the middle of my daughters birthday party, with both her, and her friends, constantly popping into my computer room, asking me what I'm doing, hoping it's something interesting (I guess this doesn't count )

So, you're right, I am getting them mixed up.

Ok, macrumors is the one that repeats everyone else's info, macosrumors is the hopeless one, and macosxrumors is a decent site overall.

I hope that straightens things out before I get another rush of teenage girls in here, and I become confused again!

Now you got it right. And you can let the kids jump around freely.
post #204 of 238
Is it story time for you again, melgross?
post #205 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

Is it story time for you again, melgross?

And by that you mean?
post #206 of 238
I was referring to Placebo's joke in Temporary Insanity about 3 weeks ago.

Also joking about how you're 56 and the rest of us are under 30 (or in my case, under 20).
post #207 of 238
Back on topic - Apple tends to base prices on what components cost now, and keep the change as extra margin. That's what happened with the iMac, Cinema Display, Mac Mini and Macbook so far. The only counter example seems to be the x1900xt in the Mac Pro.
post #208 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

I was referring to Placebo's joke in Temporary Insanity about 3 weeks ago.

Also joking about how you're 56 and the rest of us are under 30 (or in my case, under 20).

Well, I'm pretty sure that not EVERYONE here is under 30.

Anyway, even if you're under 30, and going around 20, 15 year olds will still get you into trouble, especially with these girls, who go to an art/performance/dance school.

Trust me on that. I work on their shows, and they can easily look 20.
post #209 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

Back on topic - Apple tends to base prices on what components cost now, and keep the change as extra margin. That's what happened with the iMac, Cinema Display, Mac Mini and Macbook so far. The only counter example seems to be the x1900xt in the Mac Pro.

But they also introduce new monitors at much lower prices than what is around at the time.

The original 22" display was at $4,000, when there wasn't anything else around in that size, rez, or quality. Same thing for their other displays. The 30", for example, was astonishing in its quality, size, and price when it first arrived. It took other companies over a year, and even longer, to match what Apple had.

So, there's the possibility that Apple could do that again here.
post #210 of 238
I was just browsing the UK apple store. The 17" iMac ships in 24 hours. However the 20" iMac is shipping in 5 days. Just pointing this out.
post #211 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk

At first I slightly disliked my 20" iMac G5's chin but that impression quickly wore off and it's been a convenient spot for stick-on items. Plus there'd be more negatives like you've mentioned without it.

The bottom chin also lets you place your palm against the front of the iMac while you plug the power cord and other cables into the back. If the border around the screen were too thin, people would end up pressing the screen itself.


Quote:
The more user-servicable rev. A/B design, please. Being able to easily remove the HD from my rev. B before taking the system in for repair (twice) has easily been worth more to me than having the rev. C would be.

If an experienced person like yourself thinks that rev C and later iMacs are difficult to take apart, imagine how the technicians who have to repair these things every day must feel. I know at least one Apple authorized technician who refuses to service certain Mac laptop and desktop models because of Apple's disregard for technicians. Those models get automatically shipped out to Apple because he just doesn't want to deal with them. It also means customers have to wait longer for those repairs.
post #212 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Anyway, even if you're under 30, and going around 20, 15 year olds will still get you into trouble, especially with these girls, who go to an art/performance/dance school.

I'm only 19. But I'm just screwing with you.

Personally, I have to wonder if 23" is too big for a consumer monitor right now - my 20 inch Samsung will take up most of my desk when I get speakers and a keyboard. And that's without a chin.

However, I think Apple will move to iMac HD regardless of screen size. There are 17" widescreen TFT LCDs with HD resolutions, and it's only a matter of time before we see 20" 1920x1200 screens.
post #213 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

I'm only 19. But I'm just screwing with you.

Personally, I have to wonder if 23" is too big for a consumer monitor right now - my 20 inch Samsung will take up most of my desk when I get speakers and a keyboard. And that's without a chin.

However, I think Apple will move to iMac HD regardless of screen size. There are 17" widescreen TFT LCDs with HD resolutions, and it's only a matter of time before we see 20" 1920x1200 screens.

You're not the only one, it's ok.

But the 20" won't play 1080i or p in a native rez. The 23 will.

Maybe we will see that rez in a smaller screen if 10.5 has the rez independence it looks it might have. Other wise, I don't think so.
post #214 of 238
remember when Apple introduced the 12" and 17" PowerBooks at the same time?
I wish Apple would introduce a 13" and 23" iMac.

they could use the same 13" screen as the MacBook and hit the $999 price point.
post #215 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

I wish Apple would introduce a 13" and 23" iMac.

they could use the same 13" screen as the MacBook and hit the $999 price point.

I would be interested in seeing just how they use the same 13" Macbook screen for a 13 and 23" iMac.
post #216 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

But the 20" won't play 1080i or p in a native rez. The 23 will.

Maybe we will see that rez in a smaller screen if 10.5 has the rez independence it looks it might have. Other wise, I don't think so.

10.5 has resolution independence. We've known that since the MWSF 2005. They dropped it from Tiger but left the frameworks in, and some of the docs say it'll be in 10.5

What I meant was that there are 19" laptop screens that can do 1080p. PCWorld reviewed a high-end Acer with one. Maybe it was an Alienware. It's probably expensive, but if you have one iMac HD, you may as well have 2.
post #217 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

remember when Apple introduced the 12" and 17" PowerBooks at the same time?
I wish Apple would introduce a 13" and 23" iMac.

they could use the same 13" screen as the MacBook and hit the $999 price point.

13"? I could maybe see the return of a 15" iMac (in widescreen obviously), but 13" is just too small for a desktop in this day and age. It would never fly. Not to mention the engineering costs of putting a 3.5" hard drive and a full-sized graphics card in that small of a case would outweigh the cheap screen. You'd combine everything that people hate about the mini (small hard drive, crappy graphics) with what people hate about the iMac (built-in screen, in this case a useless one)
post #218 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

remember when Apple introduced the 12" and 17" PowerBooks at the same time?
I wish Apple would introduce a 13" and 23" iMac.

they could use the same 13" screen as the MacBook and hit the $999 price point.

I'm with the others. I don't think a 13" iMac makes sense. The small screen size may be considered a necessary compromise for portability, but for mostly-stationary systems, I just don't see it being accepted. For only $100 more, you can just get a Mac Book and get a built-in UPS and mobility.

I don't think a $999 17" iMac is at all out of the question if they offer the education version ($899 to edu markets) to the general public, so I don't see why such a compromise is necessary.
post #219 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

If I were 16, it would be heaven, but I'm 56, and while I like her friends, it's not the same thing.

Mmmph...when I'm 56 my daughter will be 16 as well. Hey, at least its not your wife going "WTH are you in the computer room during your daughter's party?" which is what my wife would be doing.

Vinea
post #220 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

10.5 has resolution independence. We've known that since the MWSF 2005. They dropped it from Tiger but left the frameworks in, and some of the docs say it'll be in 10.5

What I meant was that there are 19" laptop screens that can do 1080p. PCWorld reviewed a high-end Acer with one. Maybe it was an Alienware. It's probably expensive, but if you have one iMac HD, you may as well have 2.

We can't assume anything until it's here. Quartz Extreme was supposed to be turned on in 10.4, but it wasn't. We knew that too.
post #221 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

Mmmph...when I'm 56 my daughter will be 16 as well. Hey, at least its not your wife going "WTH are you in the computer room during your daughter's party?" which is what my wife would be doing.

Vinea

We try to keep out of their way as much as possible. We'll go in to wherever they are every so often to ask if they need anything, but that's about all.

Since it's an art school, and they use Mac's for their work, they like to see if I'm doing anything that might interest them, because we talk about it.
post #222 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

We try to keep out of their way as much as possible. We'll go in to wherever they are every so often to ask if they need anything, but that's about all.

As a teenager, I can say that I wish my parents were like that when I had friends over...
post #223 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

You may be right (though I now somewhat doubt it will be Conroe, Merom is pretty likely), but I don't think updates will be held back for that reason. I think that's silly reasoning. That's the nature of technology, no tech company I am aware of holds back their updates because it would upset current owners. Time goes on and technology marches on, we have to deal with it. By your reasoning, the iSight G5 and late 2005 Powerbook owners should have been in a big uproar when they were replaced only three months later with iMac Core Duo, having only been available for three months. The iMac Core Duo has been out for about eight months already. The iMac is overdue for an update, the average time between iMac updates is six about months. I do agree that Apple will update when they are ready, from a supply and marketing standpoint. I just don't think that fearing anger from current owners factor into it.

Different products. If they wanted an iMac why buy the PowerBook? Needless to say Apple isn't any other technology group, and historically they don't put things out just because we want them out now.
Sure you may think my hypothetical reasoning was silly, but Apple has some reason they do what they do. What it is only Apple knows.
onlooker
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onlooker
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post #224 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlooker

Different products. If they wanted an iMac why buy the PowerBook?

What? You don't understand what I wrote, though I did make a mistake by not closing it with MacBook Pro replacement. iSight G5 was introduced in Oct 2005 and it was replaced by iMac Core Duo only three months later. Late 2005 Powerbook 15" was introduced Oct 2005 but was replaced by the MacBook Pro 15" only four months later. By the reasoning you put forth, those announcements should have been delayed by several more months to avoid offending the people that bought the previous version of same product.
post #225 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

We can't assume anything until it's here. Quartz Extreme was supposed to be turned on in 10.4, but it wasn't. We knew that too.

Once again, too much partying at your place and too much confusion

You mean Quartz 2D Extreme / Quartz GL. Quartz Extreme has been active sine 10.2.
post #226 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

What? You don't understand what I wrote, though I did make a mistake by not closing it with MacBook Pro replacement. iSight G5 was introduced in Oct 2005 and it was replaced by iMac Core Duo only three months later. Late 2005 Powerbook 15" was introduced Oct 2005 but was replaced by the MacBook Pro 15" only four months later. By the reasoning you put forth, those announcements should have been delayed by several more months to avoid offending the people that bought the previous version of same product.

I would have to agree with Onlooker, only Apple knows why they do some things. A good example is the G4 speeds used by Apple before the Intel transition. There were faster chips available to Apple than what they were using, the upgrade market had them, Apple didn't use them. They may not have been able to get the fastest one into a powerbook (due to heat?) or they may not have wanted a mini that was too close in (clock) speed to the iMac to confuse the consumer with the Mhz myth or the component cost of the chips would have been too much to fit into the price point of the computers or they would have had to sign on for a longer contract to get ahold of the newer chips. I don't know the reasons, but they did limit speed growth in at least a few of their bottom end systems before dropping the G4 compleatly. This probably was part of the reason that desktop systems didn't "grow" as well for Apple as laptop systems did durring that time.
post #227 of 238
The best way to address the issue of the iMac's computer going obsolete before the monitor is to do what Sun did with their all in one thin client machine:

http://www.sun.com/sunray/sunray270/features.xml

The Sun Ray 270 has a video input connector which allows it to be used as a display for a different computer. And this is true connectivity, not virtual desktop. Only the blindest Apple ass kissers would argue against having this type of connectivity.

You could even use the iMac and a second computer at the same time. This could provide some interesting advertising opportunities. And there should also be a way to use the external video input without having to boot up the iMac.
post #228 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Once again, too much partying at your place and too much confusion

You mean Quartz 2D Extreme / Quartz GL. Quartz Extreme has been active sine 10.2.

I kind of thought that by now, everyone knows what it means. I guess I'll have to make sure I spell every detail out, so that no one has to think too hard.
post #229 of 238
yea a 23" imac would be great, hopefully it would include 4 slots for RAM instead of 2. Those imacs can run even better if there was the option to install more than 2 GB. For me 2gigs is like the minimum amount of RAM need for an Apple unit.

Hey, do any of you know if it will be possible to upgrade the present 20" imac with the new merom processors?
post #230 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by bhagiratha

yea a 23" imac would be great, hopefully it would include 4 slots for RAM instead of 2. Those imacs can run even better if there was the option to install more than 2 GB. For me 2gigs is like the minimum amount of RAM need for an Apple unit.

Hey, do any of you know if it will be possible to upgrade the present 20" imac with the new merom processors?

For the current Meroms, yes. Not for the new ones coming out next year. They will require new chipsets and socket.
post #231 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

I kind of thought that by now, everyone knows what it means. I guess I'll have to make sure I spell every detail out, so that no one has to think too hard.

You wrote "Quartz Extreme". "Quartz Extreme" and "Quartz 2D Extreme" (now called "Quartz GL"), while similar by name, are not the same technology. They both speed up Quartz, but in different ways.

So, I think my pedantry was warranted. Not being precise in these contexts only leads to confusion especially for newbies.
post #232 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

You wrote "Quartz Extreme". "Quartz Extreme" and "Quartz 2D Extreme" (now called "Quartz GL"), while similar by name, are not the same technology. They both speed up Quartz, but in different ways.

So, I think my pedantry was warranted. Not being precise in these contexts only leads to confusion especially for newbies.

Touché!
post #233 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

For the current Meroms, yes. Not for the new ones coming out next year. They will require new chipsets and socket.

Are they different aside from chipset, socket, and FSB?
post #234 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

Are they different aside from chipset, socket, and FSB?

Faster.
post #235 of 238
Is that a result of a designed chip, or a faster FSB? I mean, if you keep the same multipliers and chip and go from a 667 MHz FSB to a 800 MHz FSB, you see a roughly 20% speed bump without chip changes.
post #236 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

Is that a result of a designed chip, or a faster FSB? I mean, if you keep the same multipliers and chip and go from a 667 MHz FSB to a 800 MHz FSB, you see a roughly 20% speed bump without chip changes.


I think it's the faster bus that does most of it, and I think the new chipset offers other performance features.

I think the move to change sockets is to do away with protruding pins on the chip package so that it's easier to design higher clocking boards.
post #237 of 238
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

Is that a result of a designed chip, or a faster FSB? I mean, if you keep the same multipliers and chip and go from a 667 MHz FSB to a 800 MHz FSB, you see a roughly 20% speed bump without chip changes.

Well, as always, it's a number of things.

Going to a 20% faster FSB doesn't give a linear boost. The contribution is much less. So, there may be a 5% boost due to the FSB. It only comes into effect when memory accesses outside of the caches are needed. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. On chip processing isn't affected by the FSB.

The chips are running at a faster frequency, and there is a redesign (a minor one). The chipset contributes as well.
post #238 of 238
I don't see any posts about it yet, but Apple has updated the iMac line to Core 2 Duo. Apparently Merom from the clock speeds.

Also, the EDU iMac is available to the public at $999. The previous 17" model is now $1199, previous 20" model is $1499. There is now a 24" iMac at $1999. I suppose they went with the seemingly more common 24" panel size. They are now offering a 3GB memory size, which is from 1x 2GB stick and 1x 1GB stick for the non Edu versions. Last I checked, 2GB SODIMMS were a lot more expensive than that, so maybe Apple got a good deal.
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