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Apple issues new build of Leopard Preview

post #1 of 157
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Apple Computer on Thursday evening offered developers testing its next-generation Leopard operating system the first update to the software since it was released privately last month.

Leopard build 9A241e

"This Software Update delivers improved reliability and compatibility for Mac OS X Leopard Developer Preview and is recommended for all users," Apple said of the update, distributed over Leopard's Mac OS X Software Update mechanism.

The 46.4 MB patch, labeled "Leopard Preview Update version 1.0," updates Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard from build 9A241 to build 9A241e\t.

Minor fixes delivered to Leopard Apps

Apple did not accompany the release with any documentation, nor did it specify which areas of Leopard the update targets. However, an inspection of the installer log reveals changes to applications such as AddressBook, Dashboard, Expose, Mail, Spaces, Spotlight and Time Machine.

The installer also modifies Leopard's Mac OS X Dock, AddressBook synching, Firmware Password Utility and widget installer.

Slight stability increases

Tipsters testing the latest build say they have not noticed any major changes. However, they say some stability issues appear to have been addressed, as certain issues persist less often than before.

Parallels Desktop and Leopard

One report received by AppleInsider also notes that build 1848 of Parallels Desktop emulation environment functions smoothly under Leopard, but the more recent build (1862) produces some color distortions with interface buttons and windows.

Leopard aids MacBook cooling

According to the same report, Leopard's energy saver and power management routines are far superior to those included with the latest shipping version of Mac OS X 10.4 Tiger, particularly with cooling fan behavior.

"Fan behavior on my MacBook Pro with the Leopard preview is excellent," the tipster said. "[It's] immensely better than with Tiger but that was true even before I installed the Leopard Preview update."
post #2 of 157
wikey woo
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post #3 of 157
I'm feeling very good about the cooling issue. Hate to go off topic much, but I love that Apple can upgrade an operating system & actually make your computer run better, instead of upgrading the OS and saying "Go buy a new machine, yours sucks anyway."
post #4 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarland

"Go buy a new machine, yours sucks anyway."

sounds like something microsoft would do

stupid vista..... home basic, premuim, ultra, super good, wot ever, its all crap on a disk to me
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post #5 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by jarland

I'm feeling very good about the cooling issue. Hate to go off topic much, but I love that Apple can upgrade an operating system & actually make your computer run better, instead of upgrading the OS and saying "Go buy a new machine, yours sucks anyway."

As a recent switcher, I must say that this is a refreshing approach to Operating system releases (i.e. make the subsequent release faster and more stable than the previous one).
post #6 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdj21ya

As a recent switcher, I must say that this is a refreshing approach to Operating system releases (i.e. make the subsequent release faster and more stable than the previous one).

Although I admire your switchitude, Mac OS updates don't always do what they promise they'll do...

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post #7 of 157
Yeah but one or two more updates and it solves your original problem. You'll be taken care of. sometimes it just takes a couple of months...
post #8 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribou Killa

Yeah but one or two more updates and it solves your original problem. You'll be taken care of. sometimes it just takes a couple of months...

As opposed to five or six years on the other side. I'm glad crossed over.
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post #9 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by maimezvous

As opposed to five or six years on the other side. I'm glad crossed over.

I have my iMac dual booting Tiger and Vista pre-RC1 and I have to say, in all objectivity, that Apple is now playing catch-up. At WWDC, Bertrand Serlet poked fun at MS rather extensively, but now, only a few weeks later, they are at RC1 and Apple (with this Leopard update) are no where near even first beta. It's a two horse race again, and Apple needs to stop poking fun and start racing.
post #10 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii

I have my iMac dual booting Tiger and Vista pre-RC1 and I have to say, in all objectivity, that Apple is now playing catch-up. At WWDC, Bertrand Serlet poked fun at MS rather extensively, but now, only a few weeks later, they are at RC1 and Apple (with this Leopard update) are no where near even first beta. It's a two horse race again, and Apple needs to stop poking fun and start racing.

Catchup... apple is racing with an already modern operating system and adding functionality to it in incremantal upgrades. Windows vista is the construction sate 10.0 was when it was relaesed, it worked but had a long way to go to be anywhere near a solid platform.


Don't forget that day Vista is relesed it has the 2year (thats 4/5 in windows yeaars) service pack update route to get it anywhere near the sort of useability and stability state 10.2/10.3 gave osx.

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post #11 of 157
At this point, Vista is simply Windows XP SP3, now with Aero™. And this is it for the next 4 years?

Leopard is really moving into 3d computing, with Spaces, Time Machine, Dashboard, and Expose. And those are just the names.
post #12 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdj21ya

As a recent switcher, I must say that this is a refreshing approach to Operating system releases (i.e. make the subsequent release faster and more stable than the previous one).

Yes, welcome to Mac. As SpamSandwich says, some caveats, but in general 10.2 to 10.3 to 10.4 actually makes your Mac more stable and run smoother over time. OMFG And, updates within the dot eg. 10.4.0 to 10.4.5 actually makes things smoother and more stable. Enjoy your Mac
post #13 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii

I have my iMac dual booting Tiger and Vista pre-RC1 and I have to say, in all objectivity, that Apple is now playing catch-up. At WWDC, Bertrand Serlet poked fun at MS rather extensively, but now, only a few weeks later, they are at RC1 and Apple (with this Leopard update) are no where near even first beta. It's a two horse race again, and Apple needs to stop poking fun and start racing.

What are you smoking? Apple is catching up, yes, it is catching up to the vision that Steve Jobs has laid out. Microsoft is nowhere near. Apple doesn't need to "race", it just needs a nice steady, healthy gallop. It has a wide timeline for Leopard - either to ship to Apple's own timetable or ship in time for Vista release. Leopard RC1 I can surmise is way more stable and functional than the bloated overblown ultra mess that is Vista. Remember that Apple is actually *able* to add features to the release, rather than MS, which has been stripping features out of Vista because of the shipping date slipping out to the horizon. Why are you even running Vista? For fun and to check it out, that's cool, but obviously you don't need anything critical on Windows to run? Get rid of Vista, put back WinXP2pro and play some Half Life 2 - Episode 1 or something...
post #14 of 157
Quote:
"Fan behavior on my MacBook Pro with the Leopard preview is excellent," the tipster said. "[It's] immensely better than with Tiger but that was true even before I installed the Leopard preview update."

Why would this not be included with Tiger now? Sounds ridiculous, No? Pay $149 to get better cooling and battery performance.. Mad..
post #15 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby

Why would this not be included with Tiger now? Sounds ridiculous, No? Pay $149 to get better cooling and battery performance.. Mad..

There have been incremental updates for Tiger 10.4.x Intel (2 IIRC) that improve heat and fan behaviour. I wonder what is in Leopard though that improves it further... Hmm...
post #16 of 157
I think there is some confusion about this. The Leopard Preview Update pretty much brings the Leopard Developer Preview in sync with 10.4.7. For example, it adds 10.4.7's "two-finger right-click" feature, and its WWAN driver and menu extra.
post #17 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

I think there is some confusion about this. The Leopard Preview Update pretty much brings the Leopard Developer Preview in sync with 10.4.7. For example, it adds 10.4.7's "two-finger right-click" feature, and its WWAN driver and menu extra.

Indeed. A major piece of confusion is that the OS doesn't even control the fans, the PMU does, independently of the OS.

Of course, if the OS has better power management and uses less CPU power to do the same jobs, then the fans will have to come on less often.
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post #18 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

A major piece of confusion is that the OS doesn't even control the fans, the PMU does, independently of the OS.

That's not entirely true, as you can easily see by inserting the Hardware Test DVD.

Also, you mean the SMBus, not the PMU.
post #19 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

That's not entirely true, as you can easily see by inserting the Hardware Test DVD.

Also, you mean the SMBus, not the PMU.

Well, we're both wrong about the name. It's the SMC. But it really is independent of the OS.

See, for example, the bottom of this page and this page and this page.
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post #20 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Well, we're both wrong about the name. It's the SMC.

Same thing.

Quote:
But it really is independent of the OS.

See, for example, the bottom of this page and this page and this page.

It's a hardware component that runs on its own, but it can be (and is, in the case of OS X) controlled by software.
post #21 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by OfficerDigby

Why would this not be included with Tiger now? Sounds ridiculous, No? Pay $149 to get better cooling and battery performance.. Mad..

Possibly the new fan code has not passed quality control yet, so they let the devs play with it but not consumers yet. That would mean it will come out in 10.4 later.

Just a guess....


Amorya
post #22 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

Possibly the new fan code has not passed quality control yet, so they let the devs play with it but not consumers yet. That would mean it will come out in 10.4 later.

Look, I don't care what Chucker says, OS X does not and cannot control the fans. That's why, for example, to solve the MacBook "mooing" problem, Apple had to release a firmware update for the SMC.
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post #23 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii

I have my iMac dual booting Tiger and Vista pre-RC1 and I have to say, in all objectivity, that Apple is now playing catch-up. At WWDC, Bertrand Serlet poked fun at MS rather extensively, but now, only a few weeks later, they are at RC1 and Apple (with this Leopard update) are no where near even first beta. It's a two horse race again, and Apple needs to stop poking fun and start racing.

all you have to do is simply compare the features, see whats new, see whats been done, put it in a table if you wish, then you will see who is playing catch up.
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post #24 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Look, I don't care what Chucker says, OS X does not and cannot control the fans. That's why, for example, to solve the MacBook "mooing" problem, Apple had to release a firmware update for the SMC.

You're wrong. It does. In conjunction with firmware maybe...

Why else d'you think a kernel panic results in the fan speed being turned up? Why do you think that running Linux on a G5 until recently meant max fan speed? When Linux added software to control the Mac's fans, it meant that their speed was reduced to a manageable level.

Amorya
post #25 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

You're wrong. It does. In conjunction with firmware maybe...

Why else d'you think a kernel panic results in the fan speed being turned up? Why do you think that running Linux on a G5 until recently meant max fan speed? When Linux added software to control the Mac's fans, it meant that their speed was reduced to a manageable level.

Amorya

har har!! touche!!
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post #26 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

You're wrong. It does. In conjunction with firmware maybe...

Why else d'you think a kernel panic results in the fan speed being turned up? Why do you think that running Linux on a G5 until recently meant max fan speed? When Linux added software to control the Mac's fans, it meant that their speed was reduced to a manageable level.

Amorya

We're talking about Intel Macs here (the guy in the report was talking about MacBook fan behaviour) and in Intel Macs the SMC is completely independent of the OS. I don't know why everyone is so keen to deny what Apple themselves have stated very clearly in their developer notes about the Intel machines.

Like I said, the SMC being independent of the OS doesn't mean that OS changes can't effect how often the fans come on. If the OS has better power management such that the CPU doesn't heat up as much, the fans will come on less often. But on Intel machines OS X does not control the fans.
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post #27 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Like I said, the SMC being independent of the OS doesn't mean that OS changes can't effect how often the fans come on.

That is not what you said.

Quote:
A major piece of confusion is that the OS doesn't even control the fans

Quote:
If the OS has better power management such that the CPU doesn't heat up as much, the fans will come on less often. But on Intel machines OS X does not control the fans.

You need to make up your mind. Of course the fans aren't controlled directly from the OS; of course there's hardware abstraction to it. Noone is arguing that. However, you were implying earlier that the OS had no influence at all on fan behaviour, when it definitely does.
post #28 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

That is not what you said.



My position has not changed one iota.

This is my first post on the subject:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Indeed. A major piece of confusion is that the OS doesn't even control the fans, the PMU does, independently of the OS.

Of course, if the OS has better power management and uses less CPU power to do the same jobs, then the fans will have to come on less often.

The only thing I got wrong was that I was talking about the SMC, not the PMU as I called it. Everything else is correct and I fail to see how that is any different from what I said later:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

OS X does not and cannot control the fans. That's why, for example, to solve the MacBook "mooing" problem, Apple had to release a firmware update for the SMC.

and:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

We're talking about Intel Macs here … and in Intel Macs the SMC is completely independent of the OS. …

Like I said, the SMC being independent of the OS doesn't mean that OS changes can't effect how often the fans come on. If the OS has better power management such that the CPU doesn't heat up as much, the fans will come on less often. But on Intel machines OS X does not control the fans.

No story changing going on here. The only thing was a bit of clarification that I'm talking about Intel Macs, which I thought was obvious given that the article was talking about a MacBook and the documents I linked to were all about Intel Macs.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

You need to make up your mind.

No, I do not, my mind is "made up". OS X does not control the fans. That is not the same as saying "OS X cannot influence how often the fans come on". The OS "controlling the fans" would mean that the OS decides when and how fast the fans come on, and when they switch off. OS X on an Intel Mac does none of those things and therefore does not control the fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Of course the fans aren't controlled directly from the OS; of course there's hardware abstraction to it. Noone is arguing that.

You said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

It's a hardware component that runs on its own, but it can be (and is, in the case of OS X) controlled by software.

and

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

That's not entirely true, as you can easily see by inserting the Hardware Test DVD.

Both of which are wrong. The SMC is not controlled by OS X, and the fans do not run at full speed when booted from the Hardware test DVD on an Intel Mac.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

However, you were implying earlier that the OS had no influence at all on fan behaviour, when it definitely does.

No, I did not.

Again, from my first post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

Of course, if the OS has better power management and uses less CPU power to do the same jobs, then the fans will have to come on less often.

How is that "implying that the OS has no influence at all on fan behaviour"?
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post #29 of 157
*laughs*
post #30 of 157
You guys are getting your panties in a twist I guess what Mr. H is trying to say is there is DIRECT control of the fans via SMC. INDIRECT control as Mr. H suggests can happen at the OS X level. This indirect control could occur, if I am right, via things such as controlling the CPU speed and cache stepping up and down, which has some INDIRECT influence on fan behavior.

After the initial MacBook and MacBookPro furore over fan noise, I wonder how things are now. But clearly it looks like improvements at the SMC layer and OS X layer are needed over time for Apple to get a handle on heat, power, battery, speed and fan noise issues - an almost diabolical challenge to get the right balance. And let's not forget the hardware layer - GPU clock and GPU ram clock, heat sinks, heat pipes, fan design, and the recently-favoured whipping boy, thermal paste application.
post #31 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

You guys are getting your panties in a twist

Yeah I did think that, sorry if it seemed over the top, it's just annoying being mis-understood.


Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

I guess what Mr. H is trying to say is there is DIRECT control of the fans via SMC. INDIRECT control as Mr. H suggests can happen at the OS X level. This indirect control could occur, if I am right, via things such as controlling the CPU speed and cache stepping up and down, which has some INDIRECT influence on fan behavior.

I'd say that that is a rather good summing-up.
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post #32 of 157
Glad we got it figured out. Thanks sunilraman, and sorry Mr. H.
post #33 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Glad we got it figured out. Thanks sunilraman, and sorry Mr. H.

No worries

The next question is: is the improved fan behaviour under Leopard actually due to specific power-management code that could make its way into Tiger, or is it due to the whole OS just being generally more efficient at a low level?
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post #34 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

The next question is: is the improved fan behaviour under Leopard actually due to specific power-management code that could make its way into Tiger, or is it due to the whole OS just being generally more efficient at a low level?

Do we have any evidence whatsoever that there is, indeed, "improved behaviour"? And if so, is that compared to the previous preview, or is it compared to 10.4.7?
post #35 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Do we have any evidence whatsoever that there is, indeed, "improved behaviour"? And if so, is that compared to the previous preview, or is it compared to 10.4.7?

Good question.

The only thing we have to go by is the un-named source from the article. The quote reads "[It's] immensely better than with Tiger but that was true even before I installed the Leopard Preview update." So we don't know which version of Tiger (s)he is referring to. We also don't know if the Leopard preview installation also installs the MacBook Pro SMC firmware update, but I doubt it does that.
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post #36 of 157
FWIW, the seed update replaces /System/Library/Extensions/AppleSMBIOS.kext.
post #37 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Do we have any evidence whatsoever that there is, indeed, "improved behaviour"? And if so, is that compared to the previous preview, or is it compared to 10.4.7?

Nope this is a rumor site and this is a rumor methinks.

However, I'm now hoping it's true and that it will be released when it is ready for consumers in Tiger.
post #38 of 157
some people are saying it could make its way into tiger. can someone with the developer release of 10.4.8 confirm this?
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post #39 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by ascii

I have my iMac dual booting Tiger and Vista pre-RC1 and I have to say, in all objectivity, that Apple is now playing catch-up. At WWDC, Bertrand Serlet poked fun at MS rather extensively, but now, only a few weeks later, they are at RC1 and Apple (with this Leopard update) are no where near even first beta. It's a two horse race again, and Apple needs to stop poking fun and start racing.

That's interesting, but you can read around the web that many beta testers are having some major compatability, and performance problems with it still. One major problem is that virus checking software doen't work with it yet, and who knows when it will? There are still many voices calling for it to be delayed an additional three to six months to fix the problems.

If you haven't had any of these problems, either you didn't expect much to begin with, or don't use it extensively.
post #40 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

There are still many voices calling for it to be delayed an additional three to six months to fix the problems.

wow, three to six months, that is a loooooong time for an additional set back.

what does this mean for leopard?
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