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Apple issues new build of Leopard Preview - Page 2

post #41 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbaynham

wow, three to six months, that is a loooooong time for an additional set back.

what does this mean for leopard?

Leopard itself is going to be three to six months late. Last year, Jobs said that Leopard would be available by the end of the year to early next year. then they moved the Dev Conf back by three months, and he announced that it would be available in the Spring, which can mean anything between March 20th to June 20th.

If Apple hadn't had a delay, it might have mattered somewhat.

If we are optimistic (for no reason other than choosing to be), we might hope that it will come out early March, or, at best, late February.

Right now, the enterprise will see Vista someyime in November, if they stay on track. That is the group least likely to be upgrading right away.

The consumer version, which will come installed on all new machines (whether one likes it on not. Only businesses can choose to continue having XP installed on new machines), is now due out in late January, or possibly, depending on how you read the MS tea leaves, early February.

If it is further delayed, it will come out around the time 10.5 will be due.

That would be interesting, though I don't see it making much of a difference. I don't see many people making changes in buying plans because of it. That's mostly hype. People buying Macs will continue to do so, and people buying PC's will also continue to do so.

A small number may change their minds because of these delays, but not many.

MS intends to come out with a multi $100 million advertising campaign at that time though. Apple will spend far less, and depend on the press, as always.
post #42 of 157
As I mentioned before, Apple is shipping Leopard to both their internal timeline and with one eye looking at Vista.

Overall, Apple can release leopard in March-April 2007. That's just 5 months away. That gives them time to deliver clean 10.4.8 and 10.4.9 and maybe 10.4.10 to finalize Tiger Intel/PPC and and clean up niggling issues with all the Intel machines eg. heat/ fan issues. Also, this gives Apple time to focus on delivering hardware to meet demand going into Christmas Oct-Dec 2006 season. Particularly with a, IMHO, very definite iPod update THIS MONTH or early Oct LATEST.

Looking at Macworld 2007, I don't think Leopard will be released then as they've given a preview already, and like I said, from now to March/April it's about 5 months. Macworld 2007 IMO will be awesome since by the end of this year, the Intel transition is complete, Merom upgrades will be in the pipeline or delivered and a new iPod line should be out. Macworld 2007 will be huge to take things to the next level, past the excellent Apple achievements this year.

Look, with Vista, it's a complete mess. Even if it trickles out before the end of this year, it is going to be buggy as hell. MS IMO WILL NOT have the time to market Vista as the big consumer software/ hardware upgrade thing for this Christmas season. Vista will only be a (barely) reasonable proposition for enterprise/ consumer in Jan-Mar 2007 EARLIEST.

Apple is eons ahead of Windows, Vista is a struggling lame cow with one bad knee and bloodshot eyes, with its tail up its a$$.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

If it is further delayed, it will come out around the time 10.5 will be due.

Yes, I think this is what is going to happen. 10.5 and Vista (major campaign push and full release to hardware builders) around March/April 2007. In any case, Vista is still going to be buggy 5 months for now.
post #43 of 157
Let's also not forget last-minute features cobbled into Vista now that quite a lot of info on Leopard is out in plain sight. Leopard: "Time Machine". Vista: something like "Back To The Future". Leopard: "Spaces". Vista: "Vistas"
post #44 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

March-April 2007. That's just 5 months away.

I think you've forgotten about some months there, Sunil :

September
October
November
December
January
February
March
April

So, I make March - April 2007 to be between 6 and 8 months away, depending upon whether we are talking about beginning of March or end of April.
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post #45 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

I think you've forgotten about some months there, Sunil :

September
October
November
December
January
February
March
April

So, I make March - April 2007 to be between 6 and 8 months away, depending upon whether we are talking about beginning of March or end of April.

Well, excluding September, it's just Oct, Nov, Dec, Jan, Feb to the start of March. So 5 months away
post #46 of 157
My silliness aside, okay, yeah IMHO I see Apple looking at 6 months from today as a target.
post #47 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

My silliness aside, okay, yeah IMHO I see Apple looking at 6 months from today as a target.

I know I definitely would rather that they do that than rush it to try and coincide with Vista.
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post #48 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

I know I definitely would rather that they do that than rush it to try and coincide with Vista.

I don't think anyone has to rush to try and coincide with Vista
post #49 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Leopard itself is going to be three to six months late. Last year, Jobs said that Leopard would be available by the end of the year to early next year. then they moved the Dev Conf back by three months, and he announced that it would be available in the Spring, which can mean anything between March 20th to June 20th.

If Apple hadn't had a delay, it might have mattered somewhat.

I don't believe Leopard was delayed, I think they could have had it done for end of year, but after Vista was delayed *again, Apple decided to take advantage of that and put more features into the release. Could be wrong - but that would be a first.
post #50 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by the cool gut

I don't believe Leopard was delayed, I think they could have had it done for end of year, but after Vista was delayed *again, Apple decided to take advantage of that and put more features into the release. Could be wrong - but that would be a first.

No, I really don't believe that. If you read the reports coming out about Leopard, it has problems. Crashing, etc.

I also believe the reason why we didn't see more of the so called secret features was because they were too buggy to show. Pure and simple.

MS has no time to even think about adding features that they haven't been coding for at least a year already. They can't even include features they have been coding for 5 yearsfeatures the OS was supposed to be written around.

Don't forget that they had to abandon their code base in, I think, 2004, and go to their server code base for the current version.

Adding features now would set them back until January 2008, at least.
post #51 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

I know I definitely would rather that they do that than rush it to try and coincide with Vista.

Well that won't matter now, will it, seeing as Vista will never ship, as you say?
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post #52 of 157
Quote:
One major problem is that virus checking software doen't work with it yet, and who knows when it will?

Not major, but definitely an issue to be resolved for the overall reputation of the OS.
post #53 of 157
Actually BTW from a gaming perspective we're looking at mid-2007 for things to take of with DirectX 10 and juicy 90nm/ 65nm(??) multi-GPUs running on sexy Intel Cores. I look forward to that aspect of Vista, though hopefully the friggin PS3 will be out by then....!??!!1one!!!
post #54 of 157
SideNote: PS3 supposed to ship November 2006. Hopefully PS3 will be much more affordable by the time it comes for PC gamers to move up to Vista and DirectX 10 hardware. I expect to jump ship from PC gaming to PS3 middle of next year...
post #55 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolfactor

Not major, but definitely an issue to be resolved for the overall reputation of the OS.

This is considered to be pretty major.
post #56 of 157
Geez, Vista *has* to ship with built-in antivirus, antispyware, antimalware and strong firewall. It just has to do that out of the box. I can't imagine it wouldn't, but I can imagine it would with some pretty bloated and convoluted nonsense for setting up and managing updates for all that anti-everything stuff.
post #57 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Geez, Vista *has* to ship with built-in antivirus, antispyware, antimalware and strong firewall. It just has to do that out of the box. I can't imagine it wouldn't, but I can imagine it would with some pretty bloated and convoluted nonsense for setting up and managing updates for all that anti-everything stuff.

MS does now have built-in, sort of, software for that, but it's considered to be very basic. Like Disk Utitlity is for us.

It has also had its problems with accuracy, etc.
post #58 of 157
There's "Security Center" or something in WinXP2pro AFAIK where it tries to assess for different areas whether you have an Antivirus program installed, whether your Firewall is on, etc, all with the usual annoying pop-up nagging. What I do is simply disable the Security Center service, have Avast http://www.avast.com/ running (it kicks Symantec's bloated a$$) and Windows Firewall on. And that's enough for my peace of mind. Avast is all you need. And the built-in Windows Firewall, that's well, enough.

Vista is sure to have again, like I said, some sort of convoluted "Security and Update Center" system in place on shipping. I dread to have to deal with it when the time comes. And a lot of
"are you sure you want to do this?" click OK
"are you really sure you want to do this?" click OK
"are you really really sure you want to do this?" click OK
"look, this could be super-evil malware that will reformat your hard drive even though it says "pretty puppy pictures.jpg". Are you absolutely definitely no-fracking-around sure you want to "look" at this "picture"??????????" click OK
"okay, i warned you"
...............................click OK
*VISTA BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH*
motherboard, hard disk, and your pet cat get fried. muah haha hah hah hahah hah a
post #59 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

"Are you absolutely definitely no-fracking-around sure you want to "look" at this "picture"??????????" click OK

A) +10 points for Battlestar Galactica reference. Frack yeah!

B) Yes, Vista's most recent pre-RC1 build still has the security center. Not much changed from XP. Well, the colors are different. And the fonts. Mostly it.
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post #60 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

There's "Security Center" or something in WinXP2pro AFAIK where it tries to assess for different areas whether you have an Antivirus program installed, whether your Firewall is on, etc, all with the usual annoying pop-up nagging. What I do is simply disable the Security Center service, have Avast http://www.avast.com/ running (it kicks Symantec's bloated a$$) and Windows Firewall on. And that's enough for my peace of mind. Avast is all you need. And the built-in Windows Firewall, that's well, enough.

Vista is sure to have again, like I said, some sort of convoluted "Security and Update Center" system in place on shipping. I dread to have to deal with it when the time comes. And a lot of
"are you sure you want to do this?" click OK
"are you really sure you want to do this?" click OK
"are you really really sure you want to do this?" click OK
"look, this could be super-evil malware that will reformat your hard drive even though it says "pretty puppy pictures.jpg". Are you absolutely definitely no-fracking-around sure you want to "look" at this "picture"??????????" click OK
"okay, i warned you"
...............................click OK
*VISTA BLUE SCREEN OF DEATH*
motherboard, hard disk, and your pet cat get fried. muah haha hah hah hahah hah a

But vista has MS's new virus, trojan horse, spyware software buily-in. That is a significant difference from XP.

I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's been much discussed around the web for almost a year.

According to the software, Office is spyware, and it won't allow virus checking software to be installed. But, even without it, there's a low level problem.
post #61 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

But vista has MS's new virus, trojan horse, spyware software built-in. That is a significant difference from XP...I'm surprised you haven't heard of it. It's been much discussed around the web for almost a year...

Yeah, I haven't followed it closely for some reason and it hasn't popped up in some of the PC enthusiast sites/ mags I've been following (mainly past few months the PC world has been creaming themselves over how fracking awesome Core2 (Conroe) and the lower-ghz versions as well (Allendale - Core2 1.86ghz can be easily overclocked to 3.3ghz..!!!).

But yeah I anticipate a new "Security and Update Center" that will have that anti-everything built-in, that will still be a mess.

Sorry, actually I haven't played with Vista or read-up much about it, just that it's my favourite fluffy punching-bag.

I have been following some screenshots though, including that "7-steps to delete a shortcut" screenshots, my favourite.
http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?t=63996

Anyone has a link to screenshots of how the anti-everything Security Center is supposed to look like in Vista?
post #62 of 157
Okay, pulled a few. Let me know if images not showing up...




post #63 of 157
Hmm.. Maybe it's an earlier Beta shot - the last pic above has Windows Defender listed as spyware and malware protection but virus protection is nowhere to be seen.... Anyways...
post #64 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by m01ety

A) +10 points for Battlestar Galactica reference. Frack yeah!

B) Yes, Vista's most recent pre-RC1 build still has the security center. Not much changed from XP. Well, the colors are different. And the fonts. Mostly it.

(A) I anticipate a fan-fracking-tastic Season 3!!! Sooon!!!!

(B) Yeah colors and fonts. That's about it and Windows Defender and built-in antivirus...
Antivirus is NOT in the Beta 2 yet though : "Antivirus support -As part of a sensible approach to helping prevent malware, Microsoft recommends that you use an antivirus application with Windows Vista Beta 2. Information about available antivirus programs can be found on the Microsoft Security At Home website."
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsvist...y/preview.mspx

I predict the bloody Vista-Antivirus is buggy as f*ck. I mean, it's not even in the latest Beta and they want to ship in what, a few months time? Bloody hell.
post #65 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

But vista has MS's new virus, trojan horse, spyware software buily-in. That is a significant difference from XP.

Vista will not ship with anti-virus software. For that, you will need Windows Live OneCare, or a third-party solution. It does, however, ship with Windows Defender, which you can also install (in reduced form) in XP.
post #66 of 157
Thanks for clarifying. Geez, another layer of madness that is "Live OneCare". *sigh*
post #67 of 157
Of course, for Live OneCare users, Windows will have so many different backup methods that the user will be at a complete loss as to which one(s) to use, and why or why not.

There's the old Backup tool from Windows NT, there's System Restore from ME, there's Previous Verious from Server 2003, there's the new Backup from Vista and there's Live OneCare Backup and Restore.

The first, fourth and fifth apparently have the exact same purpose and workings, whereas the second and third are both quite different (from each other as well).
post #68 of 157
Hey I have a question about RC1. I don't have a DVD burner, so is there a way for me to burn the installer onto several CDs, or something? Or are they still offering that "send away for a DVD" thing?

I used Beta 2 for a while, but it simply didn't function as a completed OS, and so I couldn't use it full-time. I hear that RC1 seems much more "complete" though. Is that what you guys find?

It doesn't seem to me that Apple is quite "playing catch up" with Microsoft. But I don't think that Leopard is much better than Vista, either. Both OSes seem about even. I mean, there are some Vista features that I am REALLY jealous of. That Apple has not even made any MENTION of.

I laughed my head off at the WWDC broadcast. Then I invited some friends over to join me. We all laughed together. It was just so SAD, Steve up there dissing Vista like that.. Apple needs to get OVER itself. If you have a better OS, well fine. But no need to go around making sarcastic comments and saying they "ripped you off." I mean, OF COURSE THE MICROSOFT WEB BROWSER LOOKS LIKE SAFARI. THEY'RE BOTH WEB BROWSERS, SHOWING THE SAME WEB PAGE. ALL WEB BROWSERS LOOK THE SAME. Yeesh. And Internet Explorer came out way before Safari, so what is Apple smoking? And the whole search thing? Didn't Microsoft announce that feature for Vista BEFORE Tiger and Spotlight appeared? Just because we shipped it first doesn't mean we thought of it first.

Apple is just so darn cocky, and all these stupid new commercials.. When really, there is nothing to be cocky about! Vista is a REALLY good OS. We ripped off some of their stuff, they stole some of ours. That's how a free market works.

So Apple, if you're gonna be better. then go ahead. Be better. But if you act so arrogant about it, all you accomplish is making everyone hate you.
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post #69 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Hey I have a question about RC1. I don't have a DVD burner, so is there a way for me to burn the installer onto several CDs, or something? Or are they still offering that "send away for a DVD" thing?

I used Beta 2 for a while, but it simply didn't function as a completed OS, and so I couldn't use it full-time. I hear that RC1 seems much more "complete" though. Is that what you guys find?

It doesn't seem to me that Apple is quite "playing catch up" with Microsoft. But I don't think that Leopard is much better than Vista, either. Both OSes seem about even. I mean, there are some Vista features that I am REALLY jealous of. That Apple has not even made any MENTION of.

I laughed my head off at the WWDC broadcast. Then I invited some friends over to join me. We all laughed together. It was just so SAD, Steve up there dissing Vista like that.. Apple needs to get OVER itself. If you have a better OS, well fine. But no need to go around making sarcastic comments and saying they "ripped you off." I mean, OF COURSE THE MICROSOFT WEB BROWSER LOOKS LIKE SAFARI. THEY'RE BOTH WEB BROWSERS, SHOWING THE SAME WEB PAGE. ALL WEB BROWSERS LOOK THE SAME. Yeesh. And Internet Explorer came out way before Safari, so what is Apple smoking? And the whole search thing? Didn't Microsoft announce that feature for Vista BEFORE Tiger and Spotlight appeared? Just because we shipped it first doesn't mean we thought of it first.

Apple is just so darn cocky, and all these stupid new commercials.. When really, there is nothing to be cocky about! Vista is a REALLY good OS. We ripped off some of their stuff, they stole some of ours. That's how a free market works.

So Apple, if you're gonna be better. then go ahead. Be better. But if you act so arrogant about it, all you accomplish is making everyone hate you.

And what is the point to this silly post?
post #70 of 157
A windows wanker trying to sound like a Mac user.
iPad2 16 GB Wifi

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post #71 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

I mean, there are some Vista features that I am REALLY jealous of. That Apple has not even made any MENTION of.

And what would those be?

7 OS Versions?
Free spyware?
Pay us even more to remove above spyware?

I don't know why Apple hasn't advertised those features too. I'm gonna write an e-mail to Steve Jobs right now.

(I am serious about what those features are though.)
post #72 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

So Apple, if you're gonna be better. then go ahead. Be better. But if you act so arrogant about it, all you accomplish is making everyone hate you.

Apple is cocky, it is part of the company culture, and part of the "underdog" culture ingrained in Apple. I think it does generate divisive rather than inclusive feelings sometimes, but they have 1. moved to Intel, 2. let you run Windows on the Mac, 3. become more affordable than ever before. Apple has changed quite radically, and in fact Intel and Windows on a Mac - this would be considered ultra-taboo 5 or even 2 years before the Intel announcement. I have to say I am not a big fan of the TV ads, that is more divisive than inclusive, although it really does attempt to say in simple terms why Macs are better. That it has to bash the PC is a bit grating, because good advertising normally says that you don't put down the competition but playfully and smartly accentuate the advantages of your product.

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Vista is a REALLY good OS. We ripped off some of their stuff, they stole some of ours. That's how a free market works.

Who is ripping of who is kind of like, yeah, whatever, I mean how many ways can you design the look of a button while people still realising, oh, okay, it's a button I can click on. But Vista a "REALLY good OS", sorry, that's nonsense. It doesn't even come out-of-the-box with a fucking AntiVirus. And the OSX experience is beyond pretty buttons, it's the smoothness and sensible-ness of everything that makes it IMO a superior operating system, as it has been for 3 or more years now.
post #73 of 157
OK.

You guys.

Antivirus is good.

But, like, GET OVER IT.

I've had a PC for years and haven't really been troubled by these so-called "viruses." If you're smart, you don't get them. That seems to be the ONLY thing Mac users ever think about. Even watching Apple commercials, it's like, VIRUSES ARE THE ONLY THING ANYONE TALKS ABOUT.

Forget viruses for a sec. What ELSE does Leopard have over Vista? (Don't try and pretend Apple invented file backups, cuz they didn't. Giving it some space background does NOT make it any better. Pretending this is somehow "insanely great" is just the sort of thing that gives Mac users a bad name.)
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post #74 of 157
One good feature?

Here:

Windows ReadyBoost

It sounded like science fiction the first time I heard about it: Windows Vista includes a feature called ReadyBoost that lets you use a USB 2.0-based flash memory device--typically a USB memory key--to speed up the performance of virtually any Vista PC. After grinning like an idiot for an uncomfortable amount of time, I realized the Microsoft rep telling me about this feature was serious. Huh. Hmm.

Now, there are prerequisites, of course. The USB memory device must meet certain performance and storage characteristics (2.5MB/sec throughput for 4K random reads and 1.75MB/sec throughput for 512K random writes; 64 MB to 8 GB of free space; 256 MB of overall storage or more) which virtually no human being understands or knows how to discover. Don't worry about that stuff too much unless you're literally shopping for a new memory key: Just plug one of your exiting keys into a Vista machine and see if it works.

ReadyBoost works by augmenting your system's memory with the memory on the USB device. The first time you plug in a compatible device, the Vista AutoPlay dialog will present "Speed up my system" as an option (Figure). You can then access the Memory tab of the device's property sheet to determine how much storage space to set aside for ReadyBoost (Figure). Note that this storage will no longer be available for other uses (unless you format the device or change the properties in Vista). You can't use a single key on two or more Vista machines. You can't use two or more USB keys on one PC. And, yes, Vista will recommend how much to set aside. (It typically wants a lot of space, so it may be a good idea to dedicate a USB memory key entire to this project. Hey, they're cheap.)

Why is this good? With a typical desktop PC, it's not necessarily hard to add RAM, but that's not true of most notebooks, and in either case, you may be limited by technical ability and desire, corporate restrictions preventing you from mucking around with your system, or actual hardware limitations where you've already maxed out the system RAM. In any case, you can simply improve the performance of your system by plugging in a compatible USB memory key, configuring it, and getting back to work. Bliss.

There have been some concerns that ReadyBoost will shorten the lifespan of the USB memory key because they're only rated to a certain number of reads and writes. My attitude is, who cares? These things are cheap, and if you're wise, you'll dedicate one solely to this purpose. If it dies, it dies. Get another one. (Besides, Microsoft refutes these claims, noting that its research shows that you will get at ten or more years out of life using ReadyBoost.)

ReadyBoost will give the biggest improvements to low-RAM PCs and, of course, the more storage on the key the matter. Adding a 1 GB USB memory key to a PC with 512 MB of RAM (ugh) will provide dramatic results. Adding the same key to a PC with 4 GB of RAM, well, not so much.

So the bottom line is this. ReadyBoost is a set-it-and-forget-it feature with no downsides at all, a small financial outlay (assuming you don't have a compatible key sitting around; I understand they come in cereal boxes now), and it delivers a nice performance boost. Who could ask for more?
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post #75 of 157
Want another?

How about being able to run WAY more software, including *gasp* GAMES?
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post #76 of 157
The eye candy is just as good as OSX, too. It's even 3D eye candy.

So come on.

What does Leopard HAVE that Vista DOES NOT HAVE?

Name something worthwhile. Seriously.
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post #77 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

One good feature?

Here:

Windows ReadyBoost

[..] ReadyBoost works by augmenting your system's memory with the memory on the USB device.

As opposed to, gasp, installing more RAM!

Quote:
ReadyBoost will give the biggest improvements to low-RAM PCs

O RLY?

Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

Want another?

How about being able to run WAY more software, including *gasp* GAMES?

That's not an OS feature, and especially not one Vista has over XP.
post #78 of 157
OBVIOUSLY you can install more RAM into a Mac or a PC. This isn't replacing that. It's just a convenient way to use free space on a flash drive.

I would argue that it IS an OS feature. I mean, can a Mac do it? No. Can Windows? Yup. So....

And name ONE SINGLE LITTLE feature that OSX has over Windows. Please.
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post #79 of 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by turnwrite

OBVIOUSLY you can install more RAM into a Mac or a PC. This isn't replacing that. It's just a convenient way to use free space on a flash drive.

I would argue that it IS an OS feature. I mean, can a Mac do it? No. Can Windows? Yup. So....

And name ONE SINGLE LITTLE feature that OSX has over Windows. Please.

Why aren't you banned?
post #80 of 157
Please remember, though, that I am myself a MAC USER. I LIKE MACS BETTER. But I am just trying to point out some of the cool things in Windows Vista, and it bugs me when everyone gets all sarcastic and negative rather than admitting that Windows actually has good points, not JUST bad.
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