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Apple cell phone is real and ready for production - analyst - Page 2

post #41 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by McHuman

This is it :





well, probably more like this :

http://www.floatingpears.com/garage/iPhone.jpg

<smacks hand on forehead>

Why didn't I think of this first!?
post #42 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Let's hope it's not made out of the crappy, scratchy iPod Nano plastic

My guess is that it will use the metal housing we are hearing about the new Nanos having. If those go over well, expect the iPhone to follow. The new iPod/iPhone-look will be born Sept 12.
post #43 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by McHuman

My guess is that it will use the metal housing we are hearing about the new Nanos having. If those go over well, expect the iPhone to follow. The new iPod/iPhone-look will be born Sept 12.

Nano...iPhone...nano...iPhone... waitagoshdarnminute!... the nano is the iPhone! The iPhone is the nano! (smacks head with rubber hammer, falls on ground and runs in a circle á la Curly from the Three Stooges)

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post #44 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Nano...iPhone...nano...iPhone... waitagoshdarnminute!... the nano is the iPhone! The iPhone is the nano! (smacks head with rubber hammer, falls on ground and runs in a circle á la Curly from the Three Stooges)

Finkle is Einhohorn.... Einhorn is a man!

<insert Crying Game them music here>
post #45 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Waking the Dead

Finkle is Einhohorn.... Einhorn is a man!

<insert Crying Game them music here>

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post #46 of 161
God i hope the iPhone or whatever isnt a flop. I want for so much to have people really respect the iPhone. It seems silly to want this one product to succeed so much but it seems like if it flops its going to be a really big flop.
post #47 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribou Killa

God i hope the iPhone or whatever isnt a flop. I want for so much to have people really respect the iPhone. It seems silly to want this one product to succeed so much but it seems like if it flops its going to be a really big flop.

Trust me, if Virgin Mobile can succeed, Apple has millions of rabid fans (I'm one of 'em) ready to pounce on this when it's (possibly) announced.

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post #48 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by McHuman

My guess is that it will use the metal housing we are hearing about the new Nanos having. If those go over well, expect the iPhone to follow. The new iPod/iPhone-look will be born Sept 12.


Come on folks, there has been nothing indicating that this is going to be announced next week. A matter-of-fact, it seems like it is likely 3-6 months away from going into production from reading Wu's remarks. Or did I miss something?


I am stupid.
post #49 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by IQ78

Come on folks, there has been nothing indicating that this is going to be announced next week. A matter-of-fact, it seems like it is likely 3-6 months away from going into production from reading Wu's remarks. Or did I miss something?


I am stupid.


I'd give 'em up to another year from now to allow a shakeout in the cell carrier biz, and time for them to build up their network (if they're going that route).

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post #50 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Trust me, if Virgin Mobile can succeed, Apple has millions of rabid fans (I'm one of 'em) ready to pounce on this when it's (possibly) announced.

VirginMobile sell multiple different phones from different manufacturers and contracts. There's not been a successful phone company built on selling just the one phone.
post #51 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

VirginMobile sell multiple different phones from different manufacturers and contracts. There's not been a successful phone company built on selling just the one phone.

Who says Apple will only sell one model of iPhone (if and when they decide to do such a thing)?

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post #52 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Who says Apple will only sell one model of iPhone (if and when they decide to do such a thing)?

Perhaps there's three different models. That's still about 50 less than any other company.

In Europe, they'll have to sell it through Vodaphone, Orange, O2, TMobile, Telefonica and all the other local providers or they'll otherwise have no high street presence. They'll HAVE to sell it with a contract from one of them also else they'll cost money. We're used to mostly free phones in the UK or at most maybe $100-150.

Why pay for an Apple phone when you can get SE P990i smartphones for free?
post #53 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Perhaps there's three different models. That's still about 50 less than any other company.

In Europe, they'll have to sell it through Vodaphone, Orange, O2, TMobile, Telefonica and all the other local providers or they'll otherwise have no high street presence. They'll HAVE to sell it with a contract from one of them also else they'll cost money. We're used to mostly free phones in the UK or at most maybe $100-150.

Why pay for an Apple phone when you can get SE P990i smartphones for free?

While I'm not familiar with that model, I would say that people would join up BECAUSE of Apple's phones. One doesn't need 50 different models to become successful.

Apple would be appealing to a select group of people. If they get a few million people to join a service, they could make a few billion a year. Over time they could add a few more models.

Creative, with its 30 or so mp3 player models, has only 4.3% share of the market. There is no safety in numbers.

I well understand that the phone business is different. But I doubt that Apple would expect to get more than a fraction of users.

The reason why manufacturers have so many models, and why phone companies do as well is because they are trying to get as many customers as possible. We know very well, every time we complain why Apple doesn't make the model we really, really want, that they are willing to give up customers who they think don't make up their demographic.
post #54 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Perhaps there's three different models. That's still about 50 less than any other company.

In Europe, they'll have to sell it through Vodaphone, Orange, O2, TMobile, Telefonica and all the other local providers or they'll otherwise have no high street presence. They'll HAVE to sell it with a contract from one of them also else they'll cost money. We're used to mostly free phones in the UK or at most maybe $100-150.

Why pay for an Apple phone when you can get SE P990i smartphones for free?

Ugh. I just looked at it http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?...=pp1&pid=10336

The reason you'd pay for the iPhone (over the above horror) would be thanks to beautiful, economical, intelligent design and ease of use. Not for a 15-in-1 combo corkscrew-phone-flosser.

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post #55 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Ugh. I just looked at it http://www.sonyericsson.com/spg.jsp?...=pp1&pid=10336

The reason you'd pay for the iPhone (over the above horror) would be thanks to beautiful, economical, intelligent design and ease of use. Not for a 15-in-1 combo corkscrew-phone-flosser.

If it doesn't do all those functions that the p990 does, I'm not buying. Pretty would be nice too and I'm sure Apple could do a LOT better than Sony Ericsson there, but for a smartphone these days, the p990 is the one to beat. I've the earlier p910i and that is almost as good but needs wifi and push email support. UIQ 3 is quite a bit better than UIQ2 on my p910 too.

If Apple are just doing candybar non-smartphones then I've got my SE T610 still for when I don't need a smartphone.

Typically in the UK we have about 3 phones each for different occasions.
post #56 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Apple would be appealing to a select group of people. If they get a few million people to join a service, they could make a few billion a year. Over time they could add a few more models.

Possibly. But this isn't selling iPods. There's a whole extra infrastructure needed for a phone company, even if they're MVNOing someone else's phone company.
post #57 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

If it doesn't do all those functions that the p990 does, I'm not buying. Pretty would be nice too and I'm sure Apple could do a LOT better than Sony Ericsson there, but for a smartphone these days, the p990 is the one to beat. I've the earlier p910i and that is almost as good but needs wifi and push email support. UIQ 3 is quite a bit better than UIQ2 on my p910 too.

If Apple are just doing candybar non-smartphones then I've got my SE T610 still for when I don't need a smartphone.

Typically in the UK we have about 3 phones each for different occasions.

First of all, anything that complicated is not a smartphone as far as I'm concerned. Second, people use 3 different phones for different occasions? That is the clearest indicator yet of poor industrial/ergonomic design in the current market leader. Apple should be able to destroy 50% or better of the current phone makers.

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post #58 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

......Why pay for an Apple phone when you can get SE P990i smartphones for free?

Because you're purchasing a Nano that has a phone in it. If you were planning on getting a Nano (and millions are and will be), why not pay a modest premium to have it be a phone?

Yes, entirely speculative as to form factor and pricing, but it makes sense: Apple will market this an iPod that has the killer feature of being a phone.
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post #59 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

First of all, anything that complicated is not a smartphone as far as I'm concerned.

It's not complicated. It's one of the least complicated phones I've ever had. It's less complicated to use than a Nokia from 5-6 years ago.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Second, people use 3 different phones for different occasions? That is the clearest indicator yet of poor industrial/ergonomic design in the current market leader. Apple should be able to destroy 50% or better of the current phone makers.

No. I have three phones.

1) SE p910i - Everyday phone that does everything.
2) SE T610 - It's small. It fits in my trouser pocket without looking like I've a hard on.
3) Nokia 6310i - It's battery lasts about 3 weeks and I can treat it like shit as it's old. It's the one that gets bashed about in the bottom of my Camelback when out biking.


Replace those three phones with iPod, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle and perhaps you'll have more of a clue.
post #60 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Analysts for American Technology Research on Tuesday encourage investors to get aggressive in purchasing shares of Apple Computer prior to the launch of the company's much rumored iPod cell phone, which it says is likely to revolutionize the handset industry.

Three possibilities.

Wu's simply wrong.

Wu's right and has been told by Apple that it's ok to release this information.

Wu's right, Apple doesn't approve of the release of the news, and Wu's going to find it hard in the future to get the information he needs to accurately track the company.

Since I'm in the market for an Apple phone, i hope one of the latter two possibilities is accurate. But either way, this will be an interesting story in the business market.
post #61 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Because you're purchasing a Nano that has a phone in it. If you were planning on getting a Nano (and millions are and will be), why not pay a modest premium to have it be a phone?

The SE P990i plays music too. So does the earlier P910i. SE's Walkman phones are pretty good music players. As good as a Nano IMHO. Plus you can stick MemoryStick cards in them so your storage potential is much greater.

This is what Apple will be increasingly up against as the technology from the smartphones trickles down to the cheaper phones. It won't be long before phones like this will be available on Pay-As-You-Go contracts here.
post #62 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Possibly. But this isn't selling iPods. There's a whole extra infrastructure needed for a phone company, even if they're MVNOing someone else's phone company.

Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.

I'm sure that if Apple wanted to do this, they could. They aren't a small, just barely making it, compamy any more.
post #63 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by rtdunham

Three possibilities.

Wu's simply wrong.

Wu's right and has been told by Apple that it's ok to release this information.

Wu's right, Apple doesn't approve of the release of the news, and Wu's going to find it hard in the future to get the information he needs to accurately track the company.

Since I'm in the market for an Apple phone, i hope one of the latter two possibilities is accurate. But either way, this will be an interesting story in the business market.

All of these analysts poke around. In fact, it's not legal for companies to cut them out because of it. It's considerd to be a proper method of getting information for the public.
post #64 of 161
Quote:
It's not complicated. It's one of the least complicated phones I've ever had. It's less complicated to use than a Nokia from 5-6 years ago.

Alright, I'll just tell you I've refused to buy a new phone for about 3-4 years now, opting to keep my old Samsung S105 I got from T-Mobile (it happens to be a tri-band, something American phone makers no longer offer as standard) until I find something better. I'm still waiting.

Quote:
No. I have three phones.

1) SE p910i - Everyday phone that does everything.
2) SE T610 - It's small. It fits in my trouser pocket without looking like I've a hard on.

You know, some girls are attracted to the whole big phone in pants look.

Quote:
3) Nokia 6310i - It's battery lasts about 3 weeks and I can treat it like shit as it's old. It's the one that gets bashed about in the bottom of my Camelback when out biking.

Replace those three phones with iPod, iPod Nano and iPod Shuffle and perhaps you'll have more of a clue.

I'd love to.

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post #65 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Of course. And Virgin didn't have one either. But they are doing very well, at least here in the States.

Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.

Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.

Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.
post #66 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

You know, some girls are attracted to the whole big phone in pants look.


"Why do you have two big phones in your trousers? Oh :blush:"


post #67 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Virgin Mobile have just been bought by NTL, a cable TV company, in the UK. They weren't doing very well here, falling way behind Vodafone, 3, O2, Orange, T-Mobile and dog knows how many others.

Virgin Mobile sold through hundreds of high street stores here and also through some supermarkets. There are 5 Apple stores in the UK last I checked. Apple have an antagonistic approach to other retailers here too. They still aren't shipping wireless Mighty Mouse to Apple dealers yet for instance. You can only buy it from Apple.

Apple would have to sell through other retailers if they wanted high street presence.

Virgin is sold in Sprint stores all over the place, because they provide the network. They are also sold in independent stores, and over the internet.

That would be essencially the same way Apple would sell theirs. Sprint would likely provide the network. They are the biggest provider of this service to third party companies. Disney is now doing this too.

I don't see a problem here.

But, you know, we'll just have to wait.

Even if the phone IS ready, it doesn't mean Apple is ready to sell it.
post #68 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

You could use the scrollwheel to select letters, numbers, etc from a matrix on the screen. Easier than those two or three button combinations on most phones.

Been done

It sucked

"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."

"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."

"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."



I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.


Amorya
post #69 of 161
Regarding the iPhone, I think I'll pass. Unless:
  • It has wifi and bluetooth
  • I can load my own apps onto it, or...
  • it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
  • It has 2mp or so camera
  • It has screen of greater than 320x240

I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.

Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing


Amorya
post #70 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

Regarding the iPhone, I think I'll pass. Unless:
  • It has wifi and bluetooth
  • I can load my own apps onto it, or...
  • it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
  • It has 2mp or so camera
  • It has screen of greater than 320x240

I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.

Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing


Amorya

Yes, you're out of the target demographic (I think).

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post #71 of 161
Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.

Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?

Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?

Cheers
post #72 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilt

Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.

Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?

Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?

Cheers

I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.

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post #73 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

I think that would be a nightmare to use. On-Star vehicle system uses just a few words for navigation and 1/2 the time it gets it wrong. Voice reco sucks.

Yeah, but I thought with Apple designing the whole thing it would work better *wishful thinking *
post #74 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

Regarding the iPhone, I think I'll pass. Unless:
  • It has wifi and bluetooth
  • I can load my own apps onto it, or...
  • it comes with SSH client, decent web browser, MSN messenger client (AIM or iChat is not good enough), etc.
  • It has 2mp or so camera
  • It has screen of greater than 320x240

I'm not being unreasonable in my demands here either. Nearly any modern Nokia will do all of the above. I see an Apple phone not allowing third party software, and that will lose them a sale I suspect, since I doubt they'll support ssh and MSN messenger by default. Lack of wifi could also be an issue.

Does that mean I'm out of the target demographic? Possibly. But the demographic I am in is pretty large and growing


Amorya

You are out of the target demographic.
post #75 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by Amorya

Been done

It sucked

"Entering a number with Nokia7280 is a durable process and it's at least two-three times longer than for usual phones. The device is not very ergonomic in this parameter. I'd recommend to all the fashionable women to enter the contacts to the phone book first (that's better to do via a PC) and then searching for a contact and calling it will take less time."

"Comparing the way text is entered here with standard phones I'd like to say it is slow due to the absence of a keypad and using a circle selector is not a cure. And often entering 70 characters of SMS take about several minutes, that is long."

"The absence of a usual keypad is a disadvantage and the result is low speed of entering numbers and working with texts. That is partly liven down working with the phone book or when the number of incoming calls is much more than outgoing ones. The device is ideal as a second phone for a woman, but it won't be suitable for active work or those who consider themselves a business lady."



I've actually read even more scathing reviews about that input method; that is one of the milder ones I've seen.


Amorya

That's because it's never been done correctly.

Just like our keyboards, the letters and numbers are arranged in a very inefficient pattern.

When I said "matrix" I meant that they would be arranged so that the most often used letters would be in the center of the matrix, with the least used ones at the edges. they would be arranged as a circle, so that the letters at the edges would be at the same distance from the center. Same thing for numbers. The numeric keypad works well for this reason. Most movement would be just three letters from the center, in any direction. You could do it with one hand.

The way it is now, you have to move much too far most of the time.

This isn't so difficult, but no one has been interested in trying anything other than the standard lines going abcdefghij etc.

Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.

Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.
post #76 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by tilt

Maybe I am just dreaming here, but could it not be a Nano/phone with only voice activated everything? To add a contact, spell the name out loud, dictate the number and it's stored. Announce the name to make a call. When someone calls you, hit the 'Play' button to answer the call.

Text Messaging also by dictation preceded by saying "Send Text" or whatever?

Or am I confusing iPhone with HAL?

Cheers

I can do that, and a lot more with my Treo 700p. there are a couple pf programs that allow voice control, numerous methods of recording, etc. And you can use it on the 2Gb SD card. You can also use the phone as an external HD with it, and put all of the recordings on your computer, to use there.

http://www.palmgear.com/index.cfm?fu...&prodid=103548

I can't find the one right now that allows you to control functions with voice, but it's there somewhere. I don't remember the name right now.
post #77 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinney57

You are out of the target demographic.

But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.

If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.
post #78 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Just learning the T9, ot other methods used is a chore. And if you don't use it all the time, you forget it anyway.

Besides texting is falling out of favor with younger people.

The point being, T9 is well established and many people can type on it as quickly as a qwerty keyboard (also well established).

And where do you get the idea texting is falling out of favour?

It's even going up in America...

"After lagging behind Western Europe and Japan for years, Americans are finally getting into the habit of SMS. 48.7 billion SMS messages were sent in the last six months of 2005, an increase of 50 per cent from 32.5bn in the first six months of last year. About 40 per cent of the more than 200m mobile phone subscribers in the US now use text mes..."

Source: http://www.mobileyouth.org/my_item/s...c_rise_america
post #79 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

But that's almost exactly the list of items every smartphone this year will have and that most smartphone users demand. Almost every Nokia S60 and Sony Ericsson UIQ phone this year will have all those features. All the HTC phones will. All the Palm phones will (if they're ever allowed back in to Europe). Some of the not-so-smart phones lower down the ranges have most of those features even.

If Apple are doing a 'smartphone' as Wu states, they'll be laughed out of town without those features, and that's just to catch up with what everybody else has already.

Since when has Apple been in the business of piling on features to be competitive, or to "catch up"?

You could just as easily make the argument that the iPod lacks a number of "critical" features that users "demand", such as recording, fm radio, flash card, etc.

Or that Apple's laptops fail to bristle with ports and slots and dedicated function keys. Or that the Front Row remote is pathetically underpowered compared to the massive button count of its Windows analogue. Or that the lack of a tablet cripples Apple's line up.

For a certain buyer these are all indeed deficiencies, but keeping it simple is pretty much what Apple is all about. In fact, it often seems the case that Apple achieves ease of use and elegance because they limit the function set, which is to say they have the design discipline to resist "competing" by simply piling on "features".

My guess is Apple will follow a similar design philosophy for an iPhone, focusing on ease of use and elegance within a limited function set. Do a few things, and do them really well.

And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.
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post #80 of 161
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

And yes, I'm sure a certain number of buyers will "laugh it out of town", but there would be quite a few more people who find the merger of a Nano and a clean, well functioning phone with a killer interface to be just the thing.

And if so, that isn't a 'smartphone'.

If it's just a music phone, then it's up against phones that cost £30 on Pay-as-you-go contracts. Pretty much all ultra-low end phones will play mp3s now.
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