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News flash: Apple confirms media event - Page 2

post #41 of 230
YES!

I can't wait to download sub-vhs quality movies!
post #42 of 230
Big deal, we all knew this was coming . Ok so apple will be selling movies...and releasing a new Pod video phone again bfg deal what I want is a decent computer between Workstation and Mini. There are a billion monitors outthere that work just fine so all in ones are out. Apple has a gigantic hole in its line up by forcing all in one iMac in between the 4 core Powerhouse MacPro and the sorry we forgot to install a real GPU Mini. Come on Apple stop the games. Build a decent prosumer machine! bring back the Cube!
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post #43 of 230
Aurora,

I agree entirely.

We ought to set up an online-petition to put a bit of presure on Apple.
Many thousands would sign.
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post #44 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by ZachPruckowski

You can compress DVD-sized video down to a GB or two of data. 1 gig costs Apple 50 cents or so of bandwidth. For a $10 movie, not a huge issue.

Does Apple license Pixar's pixlet compression algorithm?

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post #45 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Assuming that one will be allowed to burn them to disk, something not now allowed on iTunes video downloards, a bit of effort isn't a bad thing. It isn't as though you have to be there monitoring the process.

One thing this whole hype-driven announcement fails to address is DVD-R life. The last I heard, DVD-Rs are only rated for 5 years before they can become unreliable. Don't tell me Apple will also announce 20 year stable DVD-Rs at this event.

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post #46 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by sCreeD

1 to 2GB is about right. Even for HD content.

Nope, sorry. MPEG-4 is a pretty aggressive encoding format, and here are the sizes of movies on HD-DVD using that format:

A view from space 12.9 GB (13,837,060,608 Bytes)
Goodfellas 25.0 GB (26,840,722,944 Bytes)
Unforgiven 29.6 GB (31,762,386,432 Bytes)
Syriana 22.5 GB (24,193,612,800 Bytes)
Blazing Saddles 29.2 GB (31,329,091,584 Bytes)
Swordfish 21.2 GB (22,753,586,688 Bytes)
Million Dollar Baby 21.5 GB (23,100,478,464 Bytes)
Enter the Dragon 29.8 GB (31,959,653,376 Bytes)
The Dukes of Hazzard 18.2 GB (19,544,179,200 Bytes)
Phantom of the Opera 28.6 GB (30,690,100,224 Bytes)
HDnet World Reports vol. 1 11.9 GB (12,757,925,376 Bytes)
Training Day 25.9 GB (27,808,994,304 Bytes)
The Perfect Storm 30.3 GB (32,542,046,208 Bytes)
Full Metal Jacket 32.0 GB (34,404,830,208 Bytes)
Jarhead 28.4 GB (30,506,907,648 Bytes)
The Chronicles of Riddick 30.2 GB (32,439,536,640 Bytes)
Doom 19.0 GB (20,379,459,072 Bytes)
The Bourne Supremacy 26.1 GB (28,046,151,168 Bytes)
Van Helsing 29.3 GB (31,427,235,840 Bytes)
Assault on Precinct 13 23.9 GB (25,702,957,056 Bytes)
U-571 26.7 GB (28,710,657,024 Bytes)
Serenity 22.5 GB (24,198,354,432 Bytes)
Constantine 25.2 GB (27,086,384,640 Bytes)
Happy Gilmore 17.4 GB (18,642,667,008 Bytes)

If you are encoding a HDTV movie down to 2 GB, then you are losing a lot of quality.
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post #47 of 230
Outstanding... Airport HD here I come! What this could do for file transfer... wow.

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post #48 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan22t

I can't wait to download sub-vhs quality movies!

You don't think they'll up the quality if they ship a hardware device that streams to a TV?
post #49 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

You don't think they'll up the quality if they ship a hardware device that streams to a TV?

no, i don't. but we'll see won't we?
post #50 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aurora

what I want is a decent computer between Workstation an Mini

iMac?
post #51 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by cactus

iMac?

Yes, but the complaint will be I already have a monitor! Well, then use both in a dual setup. But I don't have a large enough desk... get a larger one.

The Mini is just a bait and switch for Windows users.
post #52 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by crees!

Yes, but the complaint will be I already have a monitor! Well, then use both in a dual setup. But I don't have a large enough desk... get a larger one.

The Mini is just a bait and switch for Windows users.

The mini is what drug dealers call "entry-level crack".

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post #53 of 230
Ok, so if we're (or AI?) is sure that there will be "new iMacs, iPods, iTunes movies," then what's the 'one more thing'? Phone? Merom MPB? MPB would seem a bit random given the focus of the event, but g'd'mit if not sep. 12 then when!?
post #54 of 230
Was the watermarking on the picture really necessary? AppleInsider wasn't the only organisation invited to the event.
post #55 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

One thing this whole hype-driven announcement fails to address is DVD-R life. The last I heard, DVD-Rs are only rated for 5 years before they can become unreliable. Don't tell me Apple will also announce 20 year stable DVD-Rs at this event.

They should last for more than 20 years. It's the RW's that are unreliable over that time period.
post #56 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

Nope, sorry. MPEG-4 is a pretty aggressive encoding format, and here are the sizes of movies on HD-DVD using that format:

A view from space 12.9 GB (13,837,060,608 Bytes)
Goodfellas 25.0 GB (26,840,722,944 Bytes)
Unforgiven 29.6 GB (31,762,386,432 Bytes)
Syriana 22.5 GB (24,193,612,800 Bytes)
Blazing Saddles 29.2 GB (31,329,091,584 Bytes)
Swordfish 21.2 GB (22,753,586,688 Bytes)
Million Dollar Baby 21.5 GB (23,100,478,464 Bytes)
Enter the Dragon 29.8 GB (31,959,653,376 Bytes)
The Dukes of Hazzard 18.2 GB (19,544,179,200 Bytes)
Phantom of the Opera 28.6 GB (30,690,100,224 Bytes)
HDnet World Reports vol. 1 11.9 GB (12,757,925,376 Bytes)
Training Day 25.9 GB (27,808,994,304 Bytes)
The Perfect Storm 30.3 GB (32,542,046,208 Bytes)
Full Metal Jacket 32.0 GB (34,404,830,208 Bytes)
Jarhead 28.4 GB (30,506,907,648 Bytes)
The Chronicles of Riddick 30.2 GB (32,439,536,640 Bytes)
Doom 19.0 GB (20,379,459,072 Bytes)
The Bourne Supremacy 26.1 GB (28,046,151,168 Bytes)
Van Helsing 29.3 GB (31,427,235,840 Bytes)
Assault on Precinct 13 23.9 GB (25,702,957,056 Bytes)
U-571 26.7 GB (28,710,657,024 Bytes)
Serenity 22.5 GB (24,198,354,432 Bytes)
Constantine 25.2 GB (27,086,384,640 Bytes)
Happy Gilmore 17.4 GB (18,642,667,008 Bytes)

If you are encoding a HDTV movie down to 2 GB, then you are losing a lot of quality.

Are you old enough to remember people putting four movies on one 8 hour VHS tape? I am. The quality was terrible. Almost unwatchable.

The quality after compressing these down to 2GB will still be far better than that.

Most people don't care much about quality. As long as they have the movie, they are happy.

In the same vein, most people are happy with the quality of the video downoads from Apple now.
post #57 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdkennedy1

Was the watermarking on the picture really necessary? AppleInsider wasn't the only organisation invited to the event.

Even if they were. It's been made public by Apple by the mere act of sending it out.

It's not AI's copyright, and it may even be illegal to alter it without Apple's permission.

I would get a lot of requests like that in my business. We had to say no.
post #58 of 230
Quote:
AppleInsider wasn't the only organisation invited to the event.

I don't think AI was invited.

-Owl
post #59 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

...In the same vein, most people are happy with the quality of the video downoads from Apple now.

I would be willing to bet that most people are happy with, or at least put up with, the current video quality because that is what is available and they are watching it on iPods or on their computer monitors and not on TV's. Video size is going to need to be at least DVD quality when they release a hardware component that is designed for viewing the video on TV's.
post #60 of 230
Did AppleInsider really need to screw-up the invitation by putting it's name all over it?

It's not like this is an exclusive. Hell, every site I know has a copy of it.

This may be the tackiest thing I have ever seen.

I hope AppleInsider is not going the way of Spymac and MacDailyNews,
post #61 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Are you old enough to remember people putting four movies on one 8 hour VHS tape? I am. The quality was terrible. Almost unwatchable.

The quality after compressing these down to 2GB will still be far better than that.

Most people don't care much about quality. As long as they have the movie, they are happy.

In the same vein, most people are happy with the quality of the video downoads from Apple now.

But it is still misleading to call it HDTV if you are going to drop the quality down (probably below SDTV levels).
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post #62 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

They should last for more than 20 years. It's the RW's that are unreliable over that time period.

Ah, yes. You are correct. Thanks for clearing that up.

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post #63 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

Nope, sorry. MPEG-4 is a pretty aggressive encoding format, and here are the sizes of movies on HD-DVD using that format:

[..]

If you are encoding a HDTV movie down to 2 GB, then you are losing a lot of quality.

Is that part 3, or part 10 (i.e., H.264)?
post #64 of 230
Here's my take:

1. iPod nanos - colors, metallic case, 2/6/12GB $149/$199/$249
2. iPod video - 40/80GB with some flash included $299/$399 (only a maybe on the larger touch screen)
3. iTunes 7.0. Free.
4. iTunes Movies - purchase only, $9.99/$14.99; higher res equal to or a tad below DVD quality.
5. Front Row upgrade. Free.
6. 23" iMac HD with Core 2 Duo - for those who'd watch on a gorgeous computer screen. $1999. Other iMacs also upgraded to Core 2 Duo.
7. Maybe: Mac mini Core Solo EOL. 1.83 GHz Core Duo for $599. 2 GHz for $799. Low price of entry.
8. The one more thing will be for those who want to watch on a TV: the Airport-type device connected to your TV/entertainment center for wireless streaming from a Mac with decompression and decoding, and for receiving the remote control inputs for the Front Row app displayed on the TV. Comes with remote control. Device possibly called Showtime. $199. (This might be one of the neat devices that Intel referred to.)

Except for the iPod nanos, all the above announcements are tied to "Showtime".

As for the others, I think:
- the MBP upgrade is simply announced Sep 19 or 26 when available for shipping.
- the iPhone will come at another special event next month. Different focus.
- movie rentals will come in January. Satisfy some, and keep people wanting more.

Get ready to hear lots of disappointment because Apple won't announce the things that many people still want and expect.
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post #65 of 230
Then again... Jobs could always use this forum to announce he's stepping down and Ron Popeil will be the new Apfel übermensch. Showtime, baby!

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post #66 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Most people don't care much about quality. As long as they have the movie, they are happy.

You're crazy, cause for watching a movie I though most people did actually care alot about quality. Why do people buy HD TV's if they don't care about quality then?
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post #67 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by JCG

I would be willing to bet that most people are happy with, or at least put up with, the current video quality because that is what is available and they are watching it on iPods or on their computer monitors and not on TV's. Video size is going to need to be at least DVD quality when they release a hardware component that is designed for viewing the video on TV's.

The quality is about the same as VHS, which people put up with in the billions, for decades, except that it doesn't have video lines, smeary color, and noise. Most people,still don't have Tv's that are much better than they were ten years ago.

On my 65" 1080p set they don't look good no matter what I do. But on my older 32" XBR, they do, once they are rez'd up somewhat.

I'm not calling for 320 x 240 here. I'm just telling the truth about the market, which is not the same as the people here (and even many of those find it to be ok).

My take is that this should be DVD quality.

If it is HD, then 720p would be most likely.

Look at the facts. This has to play on a large number of customers screens. Most customers do NOT have HD Tv's. Most of those who do, have 720p.

The download time of 720p is half that of 1080p.

Broadcast HD is almost all 720p. Thousands of movies, and Tv shows, sports, etc. are already encoded to 720p.

Unless it has changed, HD-DVD is 1080i, not p. Only Blu-Ray is 1080p. There won't be more than a few thousand of both units sold by the end of the year.

It's been determined that 720p and 1080i appear to have about the same visual quality.

There are almost no 1080p sets sold as yet, and won't be for some time, even though a fair number of new ones have just come out. Those are at the high end of the price structure.

Most HD sets are either 720 x 1280, or 768 x 1368, or 1024 x 1280.

None gain any benefit from 1080p, or even i.

So, my thoughts are that if this is of a higher quality than what has been offered, then it is most likely DVD (720 x 480i), or just maybe, 720p.

Apple could surprise us, of course, but there doesn't seem to be much of a market for anything higher right now, and there might not be for another 3 to 5 years.
post #68 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

You're crazy, cause for watching a movie I though most people did actually care alot about quality. Why do people buy HD TV's if they don't care about quality then?

I agree if there is any kind of integration here by Apple (between iTunes movie downloads and the newest unicorn, the 23" iMac) they'll have to offer HD, or minimally, DVD quality movies. They couldn't hope to compete with regular DVD sales otherwise.

Incidentally, I'm actually not expecting anything more than iTunes movie downloads announcement for this next event. All the talk about iPhone seems very unlikely. When's the last time Steve said... "Oh, and two more things...".

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post #69 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

But it is still misleading to call it HDTV if you are going to drop the quality down (probably below SDTV levels).

That's a complex situation. Please see my post above.

High definition means that it has a higher rez, and better overall quality than standard fare. How much better? Satellite offers HD, but from what I've seen, it's terrible. Cable is better, but has its own problems. they both compress the hell out of the signals, particularly Satellite. Artifacts are common. But they are both HD.

So, what do you think?
post #70 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Then again... Jobs could always use this forum to announce he's stepping down and Ron Popeil will be the new Apfel übermensch. Showtime, baby!

Oh, that's very good!
post #71 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

That's a complex situation. Please see my post above.

High definition means that it has a higher rez, and better overall quality than standard fare. How much better? Satellite offers HD, but from what I've seen, it's terrible. Cable is better, but has its own problems. they both compress the hell out of the signals, particularly Satellite. Artifacts are common. But they are both HD.

So, what do you think?

So, according to your definition, you could upsample the output of a VHS player and call it HDTV?
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post #72 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

You're crazy, cause for watching a movie I though most people did actually care alot about quality. Why do people buy HD TV's if they don't care about quality then?

you're speaking for yourself. As I mentioned, people here tend to care more.

But, over the years I've gone into people's homes with green, or purple faces on the screen, and they were perfectly happy.

VHS sucked, but people were perfectly happy.

People coming into my company for re-prints would bring photo that were way too dark, or had the colors way off. When I asked if I could make it better, they were startled. They thought they were fine. Then they would ask if it would cost more. I would say that it was easier to make it better than to look like that.

Sometimes they didn't want me to do it, because they were used to it!

Don't say I'm crazy. This is the way it is.

Very few people, as yet, buy HD Tv's. Many people buy the older, cheaper rear projection sstandard rez models. Look it up yourself.
post #73 of 230
Everybody's TV's play DVD quality, and some people TV's play HD quality. So when you're downloading a movie, maybe two options:

Option 1. DVD Quality $9.99
Option 2. HD Quality $14.99 (probably 720p)

These options would be great, and would please most of the people.
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post #74 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

you're speaking for yourself.

Not just myself. I know plenty of people that care about movie quality too.
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post #75 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

So, according to your definition, you could upsample the output of a VHS player and call it HDTV?

Of course not. Where did you get that?

It has to start as an HD format.

But, on both my 65" hp, and my 24" crt Sony computer monitor, DVD rez'd up to 1080p does look very good. Not as good as native HD, but good. That's because it has started out as a pretty good quality file. VHS was very bad. There isn't anything you can do with that. I've tried in FCP, and using other software designed for that purpose, but you just magnify the defects.
post #76 of 230
Anyone who thinks they will offer movie downloads at anything less then DVD quality is crazy. So lets just dismiss that whole idea right now. Nobody (not even Apple) could command $15 for a 90 minute VHS quality video in this day and age. Especially since they already sell 45 minute TV episodes at that quality for only $1.99.

I have a feeling, like the guy above, that it will be 720p video. Afterall Apple has to offer something more if they are to sell at that price when brand new DVD's can be bought for $5-20 with packaging a special features.

At $15 for a movie in 720p I would buy it from the Apple media store. Especially if they gave me a good way to watch it on my computer or put it on my TV. But $15 for a DVD quality video, no thanks. I'll just got to the store.
post #77 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

Not just myself. I know plenty of people that care about movie quality too.

I know people who care as well. But, most people don't.

It's like iTunes music files. Most of us here, agree that they aren't very good. I can't listen to them over my audio system.

But Apple has sold well over a billion of them. To many people here as well.

Who are buying these low quality video's off Apple's and others sites?

By now, Apple must have sold over 40 million.

I would never want to watch a movie at that quality level, but DVD quality, which, by the way, is what billions of people watch very happily, would be fine for the vast majority of people.
post #78 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

Not just myself. I know plenty of people that care about movie quality too.

You just happen to be a quality guy!

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post #79 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Does Apple license Pixar's pixlet compression algorithm?


Apple designed, and coded the Pixlet algorithm.
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post #80 of 230
Quote:
Originally Posted by ApplePi

Anyone who thinks they will offer movie downloads at anything less then DVD quality is crazy. So lets just dismiss that whole idea right now. Nobody (not even Apple) could command $15 for a 90 minute VHS quality video in this day and age. Especially since they already sell 45 minute TV episodes at that quality for only $1.99.

I have a feeling, like the guy above, that it will be 720p video. Afterall Apple has to offer something more if they are to sell at that price when brand new DVD's can be bought for $5-20 with packaging a special features.

At $15 for a movie in 720p I would buy it from the Apple media store. Especially if they gave me a good way to watch it on my computer or put it on my TV. But $15 for a DVD quality video, no thanks. I'll just got to the store.

This brings up another point. The deal with iTunes is you can burn up to 5 CDs, right? How many DVDs will you be allowed to burn with iTunes+Movies? Just the one? Maybe two?

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