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Apple's video iPod pricing catches Microsoft by surprise - Page 3

post #81 of 107
9/18/06 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kadajawi

And the Zune's display and interface look really really impressive, with the huge cover art, and a rather nice design and animations. The display is pretty huge, and seems to be good. It's better equipped than the iPod too, and we'll see what else they will do with the WiFi (internet? VoIP? ...). There definately is some potential. Apple should watch out.

The Zune display may be bigger but it's the same resolution as the iPod - 320x240. It's just that they've stretched it out into a weird aspect ratio on the Zune.

WiFi strikes me as an oddity for what they're doing. For transferring songs to your friends, I'd have thought Bluetooth would be better - less power and fast enough for casual use - but maybe they put wifi in for something else as you surmise. I can guess why they didn't put Bluetooth in - Windows Mobile doesn't support Bluetooth 2.0 yet but it does do WiFi. Then again, you don't see many people browsing the net on their Nintendos and PSPs which have WiFi in too.

Dunno. Opening shots yet in the war. Both have plenty of time yet. It'll come down to marketing not features IMHO anyway and I know who I'm betting on in that contest.
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post #82 of 107
9/18/06 at 8:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

The Zune display may be bigger but it's the same resolution as the iPod - 320x240. It's just that they've stretched it out into a weird aspect ratio on the Zune.

WiFi strikes me as an oddity for what they're doing. For transferring songs to your friends, I'd have thought Bluetooth would be better - less power and fast enough for casual use - but maybe they put wifi in for something else as you surmise. I can guess why they didn't put Bluetooth in - Windows Mobile doesn't support Bluetooth 2.0 yet but it does do WiFi. Then again, you don't see many people browsing the net on their Nintendos and PSPs which have WiFi in too.

Dunno. Opening shots yet in the war. Both have plenty of time yet. It'll come down to marketing not features IMHO anyway and I know who I'm betting on in that contest.

Marketing will win unless the zune has much better features than the ipod. If it is only a marginal improvement ( like wifi is right now ) or a slightly larger screen at same display ratio ( like zune ) than it isn't enough. Maybe the Zune Marketplace and software will be that extra feature, or maybe they have already pulled out all their big guns.
Let's just hope they don't have to resort to advertising. The 360 commercials ( jump in ) has always left a sour taste in my mouth. Although I do actually like the 2nd zune advertisment. ( the bird one that everyone hates )
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post #83 of 107
9/19/06 at 12:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

The Zune display may be bigger but it's the same resolution as the iPod - 320x240. It's just that they've stretched it out into a weird aspect ratio on the Zune...

Yeah, it's really fracking bizzare. It means that 320x240 files are encoded anamorphic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic#DVD_video) and somehow de-anamorphosed when playing back in the dodgy stretched Zune screen.
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post #84 of 107
9/19/06 at 12:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Yeah, it's really fracking bizzare. It means that 320x240 files are encoded anamorphic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anamorphic#DVD_video) and somehow de-anamorphosed when playing back in the dodgy stretched Zune screen.

I'm not sure if it really is that shape or it's an artifact of the image. One article said that it was 4:3.

I also measured several pictures of the screen, and it comes to 4:3.

What would be the point to having wide pixels? Everything would simply look stretched.
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post #85 of 107
9/19/06 at 12:31am
My calculations of screen aspect ratios based on published images on the web are on average:
1.331, 1.317, 1.299, ... average is 1.316. 320x240 is 1.333recurring. 16:9 true aspect is 1.777recurring. (image of screens below)

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post #86 of 107
9/19/06 at 12:32am
edit: please hold, checking calculations
edit2: confirmed, it must be some weird optical illusion.

The Zune WILL BE 4:3 aspect ratio 320x240 native resolution. No anamorphic issues.
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post #87 of 107
9/19/06 at 12:48am
Taking our favourite iPod widescreen video mockup, it's aspect ratio is 1.683, resolution looks to be 640x380 in this case below.

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post #88 of 107
9/19/06 at 5:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Taking our favourite iPod widescreen video mockup, it's aspect ratio is 1.683, resolution looks to be 640x380 in this case below.


that looks so cool.8)
Man I hope Apple's PMP looks like that. ( or knowing apple, they will make something totally different but even better than any dreamed up photoshop ) ( e.g. Shuffle )
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post #89 of 107
9/19/06 at 6:08pm
Yup this is a very nice mockup that has been making the rounds for quite some while. It seems to originate on http://homepage.mac.com/pabloportilla (http://homepage.mac.com/pabloportilla/ipodvideo.jpg)
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post #90 of 107
9/19/06 at 7:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Yup this is a very nice mockup that has been making the rounds for quite some while. It seems to originate on http://homepage.mac.com/pabloportilla (http://homepage.mac.com/pabloportilla/ipodvideo.jpg)

sweet. better than alot of the other ones I have seen.I still don't know if I would like the idea of a virtual scroll wheel.
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post #91 of 107
9/19/06 at 7:54pm
It just hit me -- What if the front is a beautiful non-touch widescreen 640x380 widescreen. Now, the back of it is the full wide touchscreen. Think of it as a trackpad of sorts on the back, a big wide one. That way whichever way you are gripping it and if you are left or right handed, as you scroll around on the back part with your left or right hand fingers, the overlay controls come on the viewable front wide non-touchscreen. This sounds plausible, but the iPod video widescreen from the mockup would need a slight redesign - a kind of grippable-handle, as subtle as possible, on both sides of the iPod widescreen video. This way, with one hand, in widescreen aspect ratio, you hold the iPod widevideo and view the front, and without having to turn it around, you can control the scrollwheel by moving your fingers around the back - again, without having to flip the iPod widevideo around, still watching the front, and it works for both right- and left-handers. *DING* *Light Bulb*
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post #92 of 107
9/19/06 at 7:56pm
The only issue is the thumb really works well with scrollwheel action. In my idea above the "trackpad" responses would have to be different somehow
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post #93 of 107
9/19/06 at 7:57pm
Kind of tap-tap not moving around actions on the back side of the iPod widevideo with your 2nd to 4th fingers...
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post #94 of 107
9/19/06 at 7:57pm
Hmmm... Product design is not as easy at it seems!!!
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post #95 of 107
9/19/06 at 10:46pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

It just hit me -- What if the front is a beautiful non-touch widescreen 640x380 widescreen. Now, the back of it is the full wide touchscreen. Think of it as a trackpad of sorts on the back, a big wide one. That way whichever way you are gripping it and if you are left or right handed, as you scroll around on the back part with your left or right hand fingers, the overlay controls come on the viewable front wide non-touchscreen. This sounds plausible, but the iPod video widescreen from the mockup would need a slight redesign - a kind of grippable-handle, as subtle as possible, on both sides of the iPod widescreen video. This way, with one hand, in widescreen aspect ratio, you hold the iPod widevideo and view the front, and without having to turn it around, you can control the scrollwheel by moving your fingers around the back - again, without having to flip the iPod widevideo around, still watching the front, and it works for both right- and left-handers. *DING* *Light Bulb*

I think that's the best idea you've had so far.
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post #96 of 107
9/19/06 at 10:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

The only issue is the thumb really works well with scrollwheel action. In my idea above the "trackpad" responses would have to be different somehow

I've been playing with the idea.

The middle finger (no jokes!) seems to work best.

Of course, the thing could be flipped 180° for left handed people, if required.
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post #97 of 107
9/19/06 at 10:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Kind of tap-tap not moving around actions on the back side of the iPod widevideo with your 2nd to 4th fingers...

The moving around works fine once you try it.
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post #98 of 107
9/19/06 at 10:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Hmmm... Product design is not as easy at it seems!!!

That's why there's big bucks in the field.

Maybe you should try it. You seem to have a lot of ideas.
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post #99 of 107
9/20/06 at 12:49am
Aw, thanks Mel, you always know the right thing to say to me
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post #100 of 107
9/20/06 at 12:52am
Seriously though, take a wallet-sized thing* about 1/4 inch thick, and play around with it. The thumb holds the front (iPod wide videoscreen), and yeah, it's interesting, after a while one would have an idea of the type of movements you could make on the back (the iPod Video back-side-"trackpad") that could trigger various iPod actions.

*A passport is just nice, though I hear not many Americans have one
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post #101 of 107
9/20/06 at 12:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

...The middle finger (no jokes!) seems to work best.

Yeah, it has the most leverage somehow. Do this test: put your right or left hand flat on the table. Lift your thumb only, ok. 2nd finger, ok. 3rd finger, ok. Last finger, ok. 4th finger: for me, I can't lift it high at all while keeping all other fingers and my palm flat on the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Of course, the thing could be flipped 180° for left handed people, if required.

A setting in the iPod widescreen would be set so that it would know how to interpret the touchings.
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post #102 of 107
9/20/06 at 12:56am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

The moving around works fine once you try it.

It's a bit of a scratching kind of moving... Hmmm
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post #103 of 107
9/20/06 at 1:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Seriously though, take a wallet-sized thing* about 1/4 inch thick, and play around with it. The thumb holds the front (iPod wide videoscreen), and yeah, it's interesting, after a while one would have an idea of the type of movements you could make on the back (the iPod Video back-side-"trackpad") that could trigger various iPod actions.

*A passport is just nice, though I hear not many Americans have one

I used my Treo 700p for that. It's about the right size and weight.

Where would we go?
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post #104 of 107
9/20/06 at 1:32pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Yeah, it has the most leverage somehow. Do this test: put your right or left hand flat on the table. Lift your thumb only, ok. 2nd finger, ok. 3rd finger, ok. Last finger, ok. 4th finger: for me, I can't lift it high at all while keeping all other fingers and my palm flat on the table.

It's also the longest (normally), and is in the center of the device if you hold it with your thumb at the front, by the edge. That gives it the greatest range of movement.

Quote:
A setting in the iPod widescreen would be set so that it would know how to interpret the touchings.

It would have to.
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post #105 of 107
9/20/06 at 1:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

It's a bit of a scratching kind of moving... Hmmm

I don't know what you mean by "scratching".

My finger tip contacts the surface, slightly turned to the side closest the forefinger. It doesn't feel like scratching at all.

If you have long nails you would have to modify the way you would do it. the way women with truly long nails manage to type. My nails extend about 2 mm. Not a problem.
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post #106 of 107
9/23/06 at 7:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbaynham

oh god, a zune phone, what the hell is that going to look/be like.

I don't know what it will look like, but I think I know what it wil be called: PHUNE!
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post #107 of 107
9/23/06 at 12:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by anantksundaram

I don't know what it will look like, but I think I know what it wil be called: PHUNE!

blah that would be so bad. hopefully they would call it something like the Z-Phone or just Zune Talk or Zune Phone.
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