Home Shooling?

I was not home schooled, but I've had several friends that have been. One of them home schooled from K-12 and the other two went to high school. The two that went to high school both turned out ok. One person is very smart and came away with good social skills, and they weren't religiously oriented to one church. The other high school attending person has decent social skills but is very very religious and closed minded about the topics you mentioned at the end of your post, especially evolution. Looking back at the person that didn't go to high school, they have almost no social skills and is fairly religious. Looking at those three, I am against home school just because of the social skills that one learns through the public school system.

If you can possibly do it, do it.

Being able to teach exactly what the child needs, and when they are ready for it, really can't be beat.

I am not against home schooling as an idea. However, there should be standards in place for any parents wishing to home school their kids. They should have to receive provisional certification from the state DOE and local school board, they should have to take and pass the basic skills PRAXIS test and at least the two PRAXIS tests for English Literature/Composition and Mathematics. They should also be required to submit their child for academic achievement testing each year and finally to submit their childrens' grades to the local school department.

That said, kids who are home schooled should have access to public school libraries, and the public school phys-ed program (if they wanted it).

Implementing reasonable standards will help insulate the world against kids being educated in little Christian fundamentalist madrassas and ensure that the students are receiving an education akin to those of the kids in their local public school. My sister in law homeschooled her daughter from age 13 on. My niece reads and writes at an 8th grade level, can't do basic math, knows nothing outside of VH1 Celebreality, spent a year as an Oxycontin addicted streetwalker, and is now pregnant (the father of the upcoming baby is serving 5 years now). She turned 18 four months ago.

Standards are important to keep that from happening to other kids.

I know a number of adults who were homeschooled when they were kids, and none of them are very educated or informed. Two of them are very successful in the careers, but it's in part because they know close to nothing about anything outside of their fields. As a result, all of them have problems with logic applied to the real world and decision-making. They also have the most common problem that uneducated people have: the inability to keep up with their professional and social peers when the issue at hand goes outside of their narrow area of expertise.

Among those that I know, there are stark differences between the homeschooled and the traditionally schooled.

Good luck with that AP Chem.

I think home schooling would be fine for the lower grade levels where the basics are taught. My girlfriend's son would certainly benefit from a very focused education according to his learning style and so on. I think once a kid is past 5th or 6th grade then an actual school setting will serve him/her better -- like in the example of AP Chemistry.

I think there needs to be another option: I am for homeschooling IF the parents are fully prepaired for what they are diving into: I know some home-shool grads what are smart, hardworking and have good jobs, one of whome is managing several accounts for his familys consulting firm and running a good chunk of the very successfull business at the age of 19: OTHR I know some homeschoolers (who have now finished, but whom I refuse to call grads) who cant do basic math and in one case, NO JOKE didn't know the differance between right and left.

If you are the kind of parent who is lazy and likes to beat them too much, for the love of GOD SEND THEM TO PUBLIC SCHOOL! If you are smart, willing to do a lot of hard work and have connections with other smart people like engineers, English tutors/teachers and so on, home schooling can be GREAT.

I've known a number of college students who were home-schooled up until college, and we also have some neighbors that home-school, and they all seem very well-educated and well-adjusted.

I do sometimes wonder about the motivations, and whether it's done much of the time to protect children from evil Godless ideas like evolution. I recently went to a home-school shop with books and kits and things (getting a gift for a cousin who home-schools), and it was absolutely filled with anti-evolution materials. Here's one homeschool website with science texts. It was the first one that popped up on google, and seems to be very typical.

You want something really freaky, take a look at ACE/School Of Tomorrow...


These people are nut jobs, think Christian Taliban: having used their curriculum for a little while I can say that they not only endoctrinate and brainwash the student, but try to make the student FORCE their views on everyone else...like a Jerry Fallwell boot camp...

There's software curricula for that. Also, there are people selling whiteboard w/audio lectures as QuickTime movies that go with some of the homeschool curricula. It's the 21st century, time to start leveraging some of this technology.

That said, is High School Chem really necessary? My first college class was chem '101' -- you start from scratch. (not that testing out would be a bad thing)

...like they took over the public school sytems and forced everyone to teach what they wanted?

No -- they walked away. You guys need to see the trend here.

My best friend is a protein chemist in philly. She said her experience with two years of chem in high school helped her a lot during her first year in college since they covered much of the same topics-- she didn't have to start from scratch at all. Also, how do you do chem lab at home?

Haven't gotten too far into that -- sixth grade -- got set back a bit for a decent microscope; the standard things, staining onion, cheek cells, [a water plant I forgot the name of], an experiment with a blue stain(?) to check starch breakdown, and some more dumb-dumb, stuff, seeds in the dark/dry wet test tube. Each curricula for science comes with a corresponding kit that's extra $$, the experiments are built into the schedule.

It's a great setup, each child has a laptop with wifi, with client software loaded that talks to a SQL server installed on a PC controlled by the parent. Grading and scheduling are done on the server and different subjects plug into that framework.

Home schooling is fine if you have intelligent parents. The trouble is that most parents think they're intelligent when in fact they are not. I hate to think what would have happened to me if I was home-schooled. I was raised in a religious environment and I hated it. School was the only place I could get back to normality. Most of my education would have comprised of Bible stories if I hadn't been sent to school. Not to mention the impact on the ability to socialise, which even without home-schooling was affected by the religion.

The bottom line is that at school, you get educated by a large number of different people with different opinions and knowledge about a wide range of subjects. It's hard to get that sort of thing from one person let alone your parents. So overall, I would be against home-schooling. I imagine that people can come out of it well adjusted but I think the odds are against it.

I know -- trust me -- I did four AP books this year.

It's not a 'good' or 'bad' proposition per se. There are advantages and disadvantages.

There may be reasons to home school given the area one lives in and the quality of schools in that location. Perhaps the educational quality of the local schools is poor or safety is a concern.

Perhaps a child is uniquely gifted in a certain area and home schooling allows him/her to really concentrate in that area more so than they could in public school.

Having said all this, I would agree that parents that home school their children to avoid the teaching of evolution or sex education are making a mistake.

The difference of course is that Christian fundamentalists may be a little nutsy, but they're not going to kill anyone who disagrees or comes to disagree. The Pope recently said something to the same tune. In the modern, PC universe it's not cool to say that Christian fundies aren't as bad as Islamic fundies, but in this case it's overwhelmingly true. It's the difference between the 19th century and the 9th.

As for home schooling, I've met a hand-full of kids who were home-schooled, and they were all weird. I have no problem that people choose to home-school their kids, but personally I'd never do it. It's bad for the kids to miss out on the varieties of experiences that just won't occur in a home-schooling environment. Not to mention AP Chem.

Think about that beyond individual killings...

I think not.

Obviously.

If you're referring to the Crusades, those were a long time ago, and they we're also started by Moorish invasions into Spain. The Christian establishment in all of its shapes and forms is hardly without scars and skeletons, but compared to way Islam has been contorted by empires and madmen, these detractions are negligible.

Most home schooling families that I know of are people that want a Waldorf style education, but can't afford the tuition (or live in a place with no Waldorf school). These types of families usually limit their home schooling to the early grades.

I am not religious, and I can see where I would home school my kids if I could not afford private school and if my public school was not good enough.

Mmm...I've read bad things about Waldorf schools. We're looking into Montessori and I'd rather send my kids to public school than a Waldord school.

Two of the brightest kids I've met are homeschooled. One plays jazz piano amazingly well for his age (or any age according to folks that know good piano playing from bad piano playing which ain't me). Both are very social and probably more well rounded than other kids their age (based on how my cousins are doing...they do public school). The parents make sure there are plenty of social opportunities for them...sports mostly but obviously music too and travel and so forth.

I'd count myself lucky if my kids turned out that great.

As far as AP chem goes...my wife has a PhD in chemisty. I think that we could make do if we went that route. Besides, you don't get to have much fun in chemistry lab anymore.

Vinea

PS DMZ...look into some electronic microscopes. My wife found some (for work) that were reasonably priced and very cool. Dunno the brand but shouldn't be too hard to google. A couple hundred bucks I think...she was temped to buy one and I was like "our oldest kid is 2...buy one in a couple years for less and better rez".

Thread now (d)evolving into a debate on which religions are more fanatical. That's a shame as this is an interesting topic on it's own merit.

Ugh....I already took the plunge on the microscope though, mono -- 1000x with a mechanical stage -- right around $500.

worse: they will make you WISH you were dead...They want the entire world to be like a church service...they want to make the radio free of any fun content certin groups find EVERYTHING offencive...as an insight to the level of which they go, I was once told that if I listened to classic rock, or even oldies, let alone moddern non-christian music, I would be going to hell...

These people are the moddern thought police, they loath the thought that as they say, "THE CHILDREN" may stumble upon something that is not good...their solution is to take it away from EVERYONE! The V-chip and you know...the OFF BUTTON just arent good enough, they do not want ME to watch anythiong but the 700 club and TV preachers and if I have been good, maybe some Fox News Channel...

This is not true of most Christians, as I have said, I am a Christian, the problem, much like in Islam, is a very vocal minority.

I've gone to public schools in Phoenix all my life.

Phoenix has a high-school dropout rate of about 50%. The other 50% are rubber-stamped through the system.

Home schooled kids are almost ALWAYS more literate and more knowledgable.

Think of it this way: Public school provides NO education. You learn NOTHING in public school.

Therefore, home schooled kids, even if they think that God created rifles to kill homosexuals, are probably still more educated than most.

I knew a girl in my history class in high school who thought that the salem witch trials occured in the 1960's... She passed with a C.

In another history class, the teacher gave us the answers to the state-required exam (that was an honors class, btw).

Math is about the only thing that is quantitatively graded, which is also why schools are constantly cutting back on the course requirements.

It's remarkable. I spent all but 1 semester of high school in honors math classes. After that semester, going back into honors was absolutely impossible. Normal math taught me about half of what I needed to know and I was a 98% student in that class, but in honors I barely made it out with a C (and I think it's because I told the teacher all I wanted was to graduate).

And what of those social skills? Everyone always talks about it.

What'd I learn in high school? I learned that I don't speak spanish so I can't even talk to half of my classmates, the international bachaloriate program is a scam to keep white kids away from the 'riff raff', and that cocaine and MDMA are almost currency in some circles.

Oh, and BTW: I went to the 'preppy' school

From what I can tell, homeschooled kids (and I've known plenty) without fail are better educated. Socially, it's probably best that they stay away from what's happening in public schools.

Public schools treat you like cattle--as long as you stay within the fence until you're told to leave, you'll do fine. Just showing up to class ensures a diploma--which is basically a reflection on what they want in the work place.

No creativity, no recognition of brilliance.. There's even a culture of hatred towards students with better grades. It teaches you to conform. You have to be outwardly violent and disruptive just to get a reprimand. The only attention you get is if you're a delinquent or mentally disabled (clinically).

Oddly enough, those relgious hard-liners being pumped out of some home-schooled situations will probably have the ambition and the point of view to become tomorrows leaders, in spite of the fact that they think evolution is a joke and women belong barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

The fact is, public school is debilitating; probably moreso than homeschooling.

I'm agnostic, but I sure as hell don't fear christians. All you people who are fearful of pentacostals need to realize that there are worse things than charter schools EXISTING. At least religious people have a sense of individuality. Christanity says that you yourself are important and a higher power is watching, so if you're not going to do something for yourself, you should do it for God or Jesus or whatever. Public schools make you think you're another number, nobody gives a crap.

Interesting perspective. How old are you? When did you graduate from high school?

Strangely enough when I think of home schooling, religion never came up. I have many friends with special needs children, my son is one. Many school systems do not provide the learning enviroment that is required to let these kids succeed. Also some kids can be down right nasty to the special needs students. Those are the reasons some of people home school.

23, I graduated in '01

Agreed.. heck, I was told in second grade that I was not ever going to be able to learn to read and would likely never graduate High School...my parents promptly pulled me out and placed me in a private school for the ballance of that year then home schooled me through the 8th grade...here I sit with a High school and college degree...and for the record, I read your post all by my self, so the Indiana education system can stick that in their pipes and smoke it.

Turns out when I was given instructors who would give me a little personal help, I picked it all right up and caught up with my peers in no time.

Sorry to raise a dead thread, but for those parents pulling their special needs children from public schools (while not suing for services) are doing the system a disservice and making it easier for administration to reduce or remove important resources that SHOULD exist.

My mother was the special needs administrator for public school district and because she demanded that the county follow not only the letter but the spirit of the law she was demoted and pushed away. She eventually retired to become an itinerant teacher, but the ground she lost as an admin is biting her in the ass now as they try to force her to change her IEPs because the COUNTY cannot provide the services it is OBLIGED to provide. I suspect they will just stop renewing her contract.

Point is, if parents roll over, the administration have no barrier to effect negative changes.

Whatever you heard can't be universal, because Waldorf schools are the best. I sent my middle daughter to a Montessori school for a few months and it was a disaster, much worse than public schools.

I have even heard other parents say that sending your kids to non-Waldorf schools is a form child abuse, but I think that is a little far over the line.

One of the biggest differences between Montessori and Waldorf is that Waldorf focuses on group activity and crafts in the early grades, where Montessori focuses on individual isolated activities. I think that Montessori is certainly unhealthy for young children, as this is when group dynamics and teamwork start to form.

The only people that I have heard have a problem with Waldorf school fall into four groups

1. People who think it is too socialist (poor people pay less tuition usually, unless the school is full - "we are the only ones who pay full price!", etc).

2. People who are mad because they used to get tuition assistance, and get dropped off the list because the school fills up.

3. People who don't like a particular teacher.

4. People who want their kids to read early. Waldorf schools think that early reading is unhealthy, and I agree - all my kids learned to read in 4th or 5th grade (but caught up with reading quickly). I don't think that early reading (before 3rd grade) is any help at all, and it takes away from the things that you should be learning.

I have to strongy disagree that waldorf schools are "the best." I'm a fan of them when used in moderation. They are very good at helping kids develop certain skills, but very poor at helping them think critically about their views toward the arts, creativity and spirituality and the problems with focusing too much on those areas.

It's funny that you say "can't be universal", then make a mind-bogglingly "universal" statement right after. Waldorf is an interesting concept for schooling, but nothing more. It is extremely unsuitable for general purposes. Much like homeschooling, you run risk of alienating your children from the real world and real society out there, making your children focus on the things you believe are important, rather than those the majority deems important.

If you are saying that Waldorf schools create artists rather than art critics, then I agree and approve. I am an atheist, so I have no opinion about spirituality - the Wadorf school is mild enough with it so that it does not bother me.


What I mean when I say that Waldorf schools are "universally good" is that the concept is good - his problem will probably be specific to a particular school (and probably to a particular teacher). Vinea - what were the bad things that you heard?

I look at the graduates of Waldorf schools, and they seem better adjusted, better educated, and more sane than the graduates (on average) from any other type of school.

I graduated in '96, and while I don't disagree with some of the things that you say (especially the Spanish kids), I never encountered the Cocaine or MDMA that you experienced, and I have a tough time believing that there is a 50% drop-out rate.

However, for the record, there are some things I can confirm:

A) Spanish speaking kids had NO DESIRE TO LEARN ENGLISH. Why should they? Every sign, every letter, every menu was in both English and Spanish. Now, the Korean and two African kids, they had to learn English, and they did. There is way too much coddling of the Hispanic American. If they are going to be American, then they need to learn the language of the land: English. Otherwise this country (particularly Arizona) while continue to be divided amongst ethnic lines.

B) Near-physical violence is given to students with high academic success. Being one of them, but not part of the IB (International Bachaloriate), I was threatened many a time during my stint at North Canyon H.S., and the administration would do nothing, or worse yet, say I was being too sensitive; that it was just typical school-yard antics.

C) The "challenge" of schoolwork is an absolute sham. There was no desire to really try to stretch the mind of myself or the students around me. Just give us the minimum to pass the tests. This was before the whole Testing craze took place.

Schools need to be a place of instruction, supervision, and academic excellence. Not a place for kids to gather, and just hang out.