Disney chief talks up Apple's iTV media hub - Page 3

Jobs left plenty of questions about iTV that we cannot completely rely on what he has told us so far. Of course Jobs being the showman wants to save the best for the product launch.

The iPod has no heat dissipation for its hard drive either.

It may be true that he's rambling none of us can say for sure because we don't even fully know what iTV will do. If Apple does include an HD they have the answers to all of your questions.

If he is just talking out of his ass he isn't really doing Apple any favors by promising features that iTV won't have.

.....

The drive in the iPod is smaller, and slower.

But, I think that he's just speculating.

"How do you think this works, Mr Iger?"

Mr. Iger, with forefinger pressed to lips, replies: "It streams the video from the computer, or it has a hard drive for storing the file."

"Do you have an idea as to which way is correct?"

Iger, shrugging his shoulders: "Not really, but either way would probably work."

Well the ripple in the water is spreading.

Other blogs are repeating Iger's statement about the hard drive. If Apple doesn't deliver people will complain.

And that would be Apple's fault.

If they are ewaiting for final n certification, they should say so, and release the specs, ALL the specs.

This reminds me of that "iPod last fo(u)r years" ambiguity not too long ago.

Where do you live?!?! Oh, NYC, cool!!!

Maybe 5% of the people I know have DVR. The rest will wait for something that doesn't lock them into another service with another box. But they do have iPods and if this device is marketed as an "iPod for your TV" they might actually go for it. I know in no logical, geekified way IS it an iPod for the TV, but that is how regular people think.

This is probably one reason why Apple doesn't like to preannounce. Besides, since when do they have to release ALL the specs?

The 802.11<no letter> and HDMI output are all tipoffs that iTV is intended for HD. There aren't that many HDMI inputs on most display devices and you sure don't want to burn one for a SD device when component will do. You can get by with 802.11G for current rez playback even if N is better. The newer 802.11G routers are MIMO as well.

By showing the device in this state its a nudge nudge wink wink that iTV will be HD and so will the iTS. If not, the lack or presence of a hard drive will hardly matter much if they fail to be HD.

There are no inputs on the device so its not going to be a PVR. The form factor is too small to want it to store your video collection (ie work without a PC or Mac). For temp storage and buffering might be nice but if you're tethered to iTunes on a PC/Mac anyway there's a perfectly good hard drive there.

The easy work around is to stack it with one of the external drives the Mini uses...but really...why is it Apple's interest to untether it from a computer if hopefully you decide that the Mini is the best computer to stack it with?

Vinea

I think you are right about HD
Jobs is obsessed with it and has a window of opportunity to bypass Blue-ray and HD-DVD.
Makes me wonder if Apple may be updating their Cinema Displays to include HDMI Inputs.
They should have put an HDMI input on the 24" iMac as well.

The USB port could be used for input but again Apple has no interest in getting into the PVR business.
Apple is thinking long term...eventually everyone will have cheap super-highspeed connections in their home.
Korea has 50Mbit connections nationwide.

Time-shifting with a VCR was popular when you had only 8 stations.
Once cable TV became popular, people stopped time-shifting with a VCR.
Since people had plenty of choices they would watch what was on instead of all the extra effort of setting up recording.

The same thing will happen eventually with DVR(its just a glorified VCR).
Once you can watch anything you want to when ever you want to instantly, POOF! The old media delivery system will be obsolete.

[CENTER]THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED!
IT WILL BE STREAMED IN H.264[/CENTER]

I found an interesting article linked to on MacSurfer
http://www.nypost.com/business/retai...tim_arango.htm

from the article
"But several weeks ago, in the midst of rumors that Apple was close to announcing a deal with Disney, Wal-Mart's David Porter - the executive responsible for stocking the retailer's shelves with DVDs and CDs and whose influence is so immense in Tinseltown that he's been named to Premiere magazine's annual power list - made the rounds of Hollywood studios.

His message, according to a studio exec involved in the discussions: that there would be "serious ramifications" if the studios hopped in bed with Apple.

"They threatened to hurt us in terms of buying less products," said this person."

I wonder if Disney is worried that Walmart will retaliate against them?

WalMart is the past and Apple is the future.
WalMart understands brick and mortar and will continue to be very successful in this shrinking area.
But!....Media wants to be digital! Putting it on aluminum sheets sandwiched in plastic and shipping it via semi trucks ain't going to work.

If people want Disney products, they'll find Disney products in just about any store.
I was in CVS this morning and saw some Disney DVDs not far from the cash register.
WalMart is scared and knows it can't create a viable online strategy.
With all the online expertise that Amazon has...all they were able to come up with was Unbox!

I forgot to mention that even though WalMart was concerned that the iTunes Music Store would compete with its physical CD sales, they chose to sell iPods.

I'll wager good money that the iTS will not offer HD movies anytime soon. I'm expecting that they'll up the res to 480p (full dvd res, if not full dvd bitrate), maybe at MWSF07, maybe when iTV is released, maybe at WWDC or Paris Expo 07, but sometime within the next year.

Why the HDMI port? For future proofing, for one (so when you upgrade to an HDTV, you can still use the iTV...remember most people have not even thought about buying an HDTV yet). But the iTV will also "upscale" video in the same way DVD player now do.

Steve Jobs may be "obsessed" with HD (I don't know, but it may be true), but it ain't going to happen anytime soon. Why?

- files are too big (20+GBs per movie)
- too long to download (10 hours given the best conditions)
- competition with hard media (BDs/HDDVDs) which movie studios have invested billions in
- won't be 1080p (so all the early adopters, who want the best of the best, would turn their noses up)
- too few people have HDTVs at the moment anyway

It may happen in 2009 or 2010 when we have deeper broadband penetration, faster connections, mainstream HDTV adoption, 2TB HDDs that cost $250, a better video codec, and Wal-Mart is selling overstocked BDs in their bargain bin for $5.99. Before then though, forget about it.

As much as we all want to see Apple succeed with iTunes and iTV, DVD sales were $16 billion a year. If you look at what movie studios do - TV shows on DVD, special edition DVDs - they get richer selling the same thing over and over. And how about when the kids go into Walmart, grabs a copy of Finding Nemo and won't leave unless mom buys it? DVD's are a gold mine for movie studios. It isn't going away any time soon.

Yep--and I agree with the rest of your comments.

WRT Walmart, I'm curious to the validity of the article (and the report has been on the intarweb a couple of weeks ago, too). I really can't see Walmart flexing muscle over movie downloads when they haven't flexed muscle (as far as I know) about downloading TV shows or music. iTunes music sales are such a small percentage of total music sales and movie downloads will be even smaller. I can't believe that the company's DVD sales would be scratched at all--at least not for the next five years (especially with BR and HD-DVD disks coming to supplant the DVD shelves).

Slightly, different topic. I can't help but be suprised and pleased at the success of QuickTime through the success of iTunes and the iPod. Not too many years ago, there was quite a scare (at least from me) that QT would be marginalized with Real and WM being the big hitters. With iTunes for Windows and each success in downloaded TV and movie sales, it's the other two that are on the ropes (especially with the MS incredibly bone-headed move of not having the Zune use "PlaysForSure"--I'm absolutely incredulous at that). Hopefully soon, iTS store movies and TV will come be QT files with multiple audio tracks for commentaries.

Just to clear up some confusion... I don't think Apple is going to offer HD movies any time soon.
Walmart is worried about their CD sales, DVD sales, sales of DVD players and TVs.
What I'm saying is that while the rest of the big boys are trying to win the HD war, Apple is going to come out with a system that will ween consumers away from the idea of going to a store and buying physical media.

If Steve has his way Blu-ray and HD-DVD will both loose to DVD quality downloads.
Once consumers are used to downloads vs. physical purchases, Apple can keep increasing the quality as bandwidth increases.

MS not using "Plays for Sure" is the most ironic thing EVAR!

Yaaaayyyy Time to check our facts!

http://today.reuters.com/news/articl...src=rss&rpc=22

From the article:

LOS ANGELES (Reuters) - Wal-Mart Stores Inc. on Friday said it was not trying to dissuade movie studios from working with other forms of distribution, such as Apple Computer Inc.'s iTunes download service.

The New York Post reported Friday that the world's largest retailer has warned Hollywood it may retaliate against studios for selling movies on iTunes, a move that could hurt Wal-Mart's DVD sales. "The Post story appears to be a rehashing of the misinformation that's been printed previously," a Wal-Mart spokeswoman said in a statement.

I put the same stock in Iger's comments about the iTV that Jobs said about the Segway (anyone remember these famous words?... "They'll design cities around them!")

Are you suggesting 2 models at launch (or a second model sometime thereafter)?

iTV & iTV-HD?

Of course this shouls be ready for HD,. But HDMI can be used for SD as well of course.

what I menat was that they should let us know what this thing really is. does it have a HD? does it have a cpu of some note? What about the graphics processor, if any.

No reason to keep this secret. There isn't the time for anyone to copy it.

What WalMart had said was they wanted the same price as being offered to itunes for its DVD's.

It didn't want Apple to sell movies for less than it could sell the DVD itself.

Of course, Walmart sells tunes for $0.89, and it has been a failure. So price isn't everything. I think it knows that now. But it still doesn't want to take the chance.

I'm not suggesting anything. The article speaks for itself.

Define "soon"? I would expect HD within a year (of launch) if Apple doesn't launch iTV with HD.


And component would be fine for that. Most (if not all) HDTVs will some with component in, most AV receivers have component in but few have HDMI switches, HDTVs only have 1 or 2 HDMI ports. So, after your cable box eats one of 2 ports (lower end receivers with HDMI like the Sony only have 2 HDMI ports) and the 360/PS3 or HD-DVD or BR player takes the other that HDMI port on the iTV doesn't seem like much value added for a product that won't expect to see HD "anytime soon".


Mmm...then those single layer HD-DVD discs are in impossible. I don't remember the exact numbers but encoding at 15-16 mbps is considered close to master quality and some HD-DVDs I believe encoded to around 12mpbs which equates to less than 11GB for a 2 hour movie.

720p will be smaller still.


Lets see...the BEST conditions are 100Mbps in some FTTH setups but these I believe are limited to a very small number of folks in some trial buildouts.

The most commonly available best is 30 Mbps with FIOS for $179.95/month which is too pricey.

So lets go for the cheapest "best" scenario: 15mpbs from FIOS for $44.95/month. Should take around an hour to download (depending on my sometimes questionable math skills).

Note that both Comcast and Time Warner has doubled their max speed (to 16mpbs) in some areas that FiOS serves.

Whether Verizon, Comcast or TW's infrastructure could handle everyone trying to DL HD movies at the same time from Apple is debatable but I know some folks report 14Mpbs sustained downloads if the other end of the pipe can handle it.


Which Sony and Toshiba have invested billions in. Studio investments have probably been modest to non-existant.


Well if it's not 1080p then it sure smaller than 15GBs. Probably smaller than 8 GBs. The numbers above (1 hour DL times) are for the expected 10-11 GBs size.


They can DL SD movies. I would expect HD movie pricing to start at $20 (if not higher) and not have many titles (to reduce server loads). I would also expect a few HD TV shows available but higher than the $2/episode.

But I can easily handle and desire 720p resolution on my MBP. HDTV penetration will only rise.


I'll wager a HD movie on seeing HD movies on iTunes it before 2009. If we're both still around (and remember) you can arrange gifting me a ITS HD movie download or I can buy a HD-DVD/BR movie for you from Amazon for XMas 2008 (call it max of $30). That's not "good money" but its a cut above a gentlemen's bet and I think appropriate for the topic.

Vinea

Well, Xmas 2008 is around the time I'd expect Apple to intro HD movies, if it's being aggressive. My point was that anyone expecting HD movies in Jan07 or even summer 07 was smoking something I'd like to try.

But sure, we've got a deal (even tho I'm not christian). I just put it in my iCal for Dec 24, 2008.

Because Disney and Apple want you to buy the programming. If there were a DVR ala Tivo, we could simply record the episodes for free instead of paying $2.00 a pop, then stream it to your TV. Ya think the head of Disney got excited because iTV is a way to watch programming for free? They are going to leave that to an Elgato device which has these capabilities so you can use it for aquiring the content, then stream it through iTV.

The obvious reason for a HDMI port is that it is the current technology and most TV's today are using them, so the iTV needs it for connectivity plain and simple, and this is the same reason that it has component video out and both optical and analog sterio out. I'm suprised they only have the two types of video out.

As to the resolution, near DVD quality is good enough for most people and is the most economical choice for now. Also, since the studio's are investing in HD DVD or Blue Ray releases right now the lower resolution downloads will not compete with these. The Studio's will want to sell as many HD DVD's as possible before a wholesale switch to online. They also will want to sell you a near DVD quality movie today, and in a year or two sell you the same movie in full 1080p, thus making money off of repeat buyers just like they did with the switch from video tape to DVD.

The real question is if the hardware sold today supports HD quality video streams even if Apple is not selling movies with this resolution, or can be upgraded to support them with a software/firmware patch in the future. I'm not sure that we know the answers to these questions. Looking at the event again I didnt hear him specify what resolution the device supports or the resolution of the video that he was playing. I'm sure that Apple has full 1080p files of all the moves and television shows that they offer whether they sell them at that resolution or not. Steve could have the HD files that he is linking up to, which would make sense since they will look better on that large projection than the DVD quality files do.

After a week with my video iPod I don't really see iTunes competing with DVD or HDVD/BluRay sales. I downloaded Pirates of the Caribbean from iTunes, and tried watching it on my TV via the video out on my computer, and it was noticeably lower resolution and framerate than a DVD would be. It actually kind of sucked. I don't know if I'm just used to DVDs now, but it felt worse than watching it on VHS - the action sequences were very difficult to follow, maybe because they were intended to be higher-resolution and better framerate? I don't think it's my hardware, as I'm running from a G5.

Anyways, while this kind of quality might be okay for a romantic comedy or for TV shows, I don't see iTunes taking over the home movie market. $12 seems like a waste for a low-quality version of the product, and the 3 1/2 hours it took to download is about 3 hours longer than it would've taken to rent it from Blockbuster...

I won't even mention how shitty it was to try to watch the first 15 minutes of this movie on my new iPod...

No the frame rate was the same. NTSC only has one frame rate. Your computer is not really ideal for judging video quality of NTSC.

NTSC is 720x480 pixels if you are watching that full screen on a computer monitor, you spread 720x480 pixels over 1280x1024 pixels (or even more) the image is going to be degraded.

I watch cable television on my computer. At full screen the picture is noticeably worse than on my television for this very reason. On top of that not all computer monitors are created equal some are crappier than others.

If the iTunes movies are being encoded from an HD source MPEG 4 is much more efficient at compressing video and maintaining good quality than the MPEG 2 DVD's are being encoded with.


I would go further. Pirates of the Caribbean is a big movie that had views of large ocean vistas. It was framed and composed and intended for the big screen. Because of this it is not very satisfactory to watch on television. Unless you have a large enough screen to watch it in its proper 2.40:1 aspect ratio.

It just occurred to me, what if the USB port is for attaching an optional Blu-ray or HD-DVD drive.

I read an article recently that said that music video directors are purposely doing more close-ups in their videos because more videos are being watched on small screens.

You wouldn't need iTV for that.

At the very least the USB port is for the iPod, hopefully it'll be open for an external HDD. The best case scenario is it would be open to any external device.

So far the reasons for Apple not becoming a PVR provider seem more convincing to me than the reasons why they would.

A lot of people seem to be ignoring that a PVR is more than just the hardware. It's a safe bet that typical customers expect reasonably reliable program guides. Based on feedback I've heard from EyeTV customers that's not necessarily as trivial as it may seem or even impossible depending on your location. Even without being well informed on the topic I know there are technical, economic, and political issues relating to program guides. I'm not saying any are insurmountable, just doubting that Apple wants to get involved in that business, at least not while the iTunes Store is their digital media showcase and there are already third parties (like Elgato) capable of doing it or trying to.

I don't recall him mentioning HD video at all during the "It's Showtime" presentation; does anyone?

Blah, blah, blah... All I can say is that without my Series One DirectV receiver with TiVo (with storage boosted by a second HD) my TV would be all but useless

For the life of me I can't understand people's addiction to live TV

My guess is that most people who don't use a tivo can't understand tivo users' addiction to TV.

Anyway, I wonder: Would this iTV allow a purely software-based DVR? The Mac has the hard drive, the iTV has the TV connections. Would it be possible to stream recorded TV signals back and forth across this wireless network? And would you need a separate tuner for full functionality?

It's not a DVR at all.

Huh? Of course iTV isn't a DVR, but it's a connection between a TV and your computer. A DVR is simply a hard drive, a connection between a TV and a computer, and the right software. iTV provides the connection, the computer provides the hard drive, and so all that's missing is the software. I'm asking if people think this would work, given the lack of tuner and the wireless connection.

I'm not following. A DVR's purpose is to take TV content and record it to make it accessible later on, as well as on other devices, such as a PC. iTV's purpose is just about the exact opposite; iTV's content is already recorded and comes from the PC, and the TV is the target, nto the source.

Come on Chucker, work with me here. I fully understand the iTV's purpose. The question I'm asking is whether it could be used for another purpose without any additional hardware. I don't know. Obviously wifi can send from computer to iTV, but there's no reason it couldn't send from iTV to the computer as well, unless it's been specifically disabled by Apple. If that worked, you'd just need to get the TV signal into the iTV. Do the component and hdmi connectors have both input and output?

No, they're output-only.

If you wanted DVR functionality on the iTV, you'd have to add either*adequate inputs (which would inevitably make it a lot less compact), or, better yet, a tuner. And when you add a tuner, you run into the problem of tons of different standards.