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Mulholland Dr., Memento, etc.

post #1 of 61
9/25/06 at 2:53pm
Thread Starter 
Normally I watch less intense movies, but after re-watching Mulholland Dr. last night, and realizing how much I loved it, I'm looking for other similarly challenging films. I didn't much care for Lost Highway or other Lynch movies, but Mulholland Dr. really hits the spot. Memento comes to mind too.

Any other suggestions?
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post #2 of 61
9/25/06 at 3:10pm
Donnie Darko comes to mind.
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post #3 of 61
9/25/06 at 3:31pm
  • e1618978
  • will burn in the Fiery Pit of Hell.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

Normally I watch less intense movies, but after re-watching Mulholland Dr. last night, and realizing how much I loved it, I'm looking for other similarly challenging films. I didn't much care for Lost Highway or other Lynch movies, but Mulholland Dr. really hits the spot. Memento comes to mind too.

Any other suggestions?

You didn't like Blue Velvet? I don't know what you mean by "challanging", but
here are my suggestions:

Cronenberg's "Crash"
Videodrome
Four Rooms
The Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her lover\t
Brazil
Siesta
Delicatessen
45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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45 2a3 300b 211 845 833
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post #4 of 61
9/25/06 at 3:37pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcfsu

Donnie Darko comes to mind.

Yeah, I'd put that into the same class as I'm thinking. I've seen it though.

Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

You didn't like Blue Velvet? I don't know what you mean by "challanging", but
here are my suggestions:

Cronenberg's "Crash"
Videodrome
Four Rooms
The Cook, the Thief, his Wife, and her lover\t
Brazil
Siesta
Delicatessen

Thanks, I haven't seen most of those. And now that you mention it, I did like Blue Velvet.
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post #5 of 61
9/25/06 at 4:22pm
Andrei Tarkovsky's (1972) Solaris.


...just thought of another, and from 1972 as well: Ingmar Bergman's Cries and Whispers.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #6 of 61
9/25/06 at 5:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

Normally I watch less intense movies, but after re-watching Mulholland Dr. last night, and realizing how much I loved it, I'm looking for other similarly challenging films. I didn't much care for Lost Highway or other Lynch movies, but Mulholland Dr. really hits the spot. Memento comes to mind too.

Any other suggestions?


Being John Malkovich?
Pi?
Requiem for a Dream? (*shudder*)
The Interview?
Baghdad Cafe?
Crash (the Cronenberg one)?
Junior Brown's Planet?
Heat?
Gods and Monsters?
House of Sand and Fog?
The House of Yes?
Identity?
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #7 of 61
9/25/06 at 5:17pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

Andrei Tarkovsky's (1972) Solaris.


...just thought of another, and from 1972 as well: Ingmar Bergman's Cries and Whispers.

I had mixed feelings about Solaris. It was mysterious like the ones I'm looking for here, but it was very slow-moving and the mystery wasn't really all that interesting.

I haven't seen Cries and Whispers, I'll have to check that out. I liked Persona quite a bit.
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post #8 of 61
9/25/06 at 5:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

I had mixed feelings about Solaris. It was mysterious like the ones I'm looking for here, but it was very slow-moving and the mystery wasn't really all that interesting.

I haven't seen Cries and Whispers, I'll have to check that out. I liked Persona quite a bit.

Watch out though, Cries and Whispers makes Solaris -- you did see the 1972 version, yes? -- look like Diehard.


Also, what about Dark City?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #9 of 61
9/25/06 at 6:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

Also, what about Dark City?

I have never understood why people like that movie so much.

Ooh! What about eXistenz?
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post #10 of 61
9/25/06 at 6:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

I have never understood why people like that movie so much.

It was a fairly self-conscious rant on predestination --- you should've loved it!

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #11 of 61
9/25/06 at 7:08pm
Sprit of the Beehive. Glacially paced but beautiful and lyrical spanish film from the 80s. Not really in the neck of the woods of some of things you were mentioning, but I deeply love it and never pass up an opportunity to recommend it.

Burden of Dreams, a documentary about the making of Aguirre, the Wrath of God. Klaus Kinski going slowly insane in the jungle. Priceless.

Welcome to the Dollhouse. I kinda loath everything Todd Solondz did after this, though.

Brick. High school noir that totally works.

Breaking the Waves. The mothership of von Trier's freaky woman hatred/exaltation oeuvre, but it's such a great performance by Emily Watson. Not really everybody's thing.

Audition. The most fucked-up movie I have ever seen. Starts out like a Fred MacMurray vehicle and ends up like a snuff film. And it's Japanese.

Old Boy. Also Japanese, and, come to think of it, even more fucked up than Audition. The Japanese are seriously into some weird shit.

The Navigator. Medieval peasants escape the black death by digging a tunnel to the 20th century. I can't justify recommending this.

The Stuntman. Tricky pomo doings involving the film industry. Peter O'Toole, so you can't go too far wrong.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #12 of 61
9/25/06 at 7:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Breaking the Waves. The mothership of von Trier's freaky woman hatred/exaltation oeuvre, but it's such a great performance by Emily Watson. Not really everybody's thing.

Jesus that's an amazing movie.

As an aside, I LOVE Watson in Trixie. She's the most amazing foot-actor I've ever seen.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #13 of 61
9/25/06 at 7:46pm
Have you seen Carnivale? It's right in the same vein of a lot of the films mentioned here, but spread out over 30 or so hours.
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post #14 of 61
9/25/06 at 7:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by giant

Have you seen Carnivale? It's right in the same vein of a lot of the films mentioned here, but spread out over 30 or so hours.

I didn't make it past the first season with that. Loved the first season. But didn't make it past it.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #15 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:06pm
A few comments on some suggestions:

Dark City and eXistenz are decent -- make you think? Not so much.

Old Boy is fantastic, but it's a Korean film, not Japanese. This is something that would probably sit up there with Donnie Darko, Mulholland and Memento.

Here's another for the growing list: Abre los Ojos/Vanilla Sky. Their basically the same movie, Abre los Ojos came first though and then Cameron Crowe made it better.
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post #16 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:29pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcfsu

A few comments on some suggestions:

Dark City and eXistenz are decent -- make you think? Not so much.

Old Boy is fantastic, but it's a Korean film, not Japanese. This is something that would probably sit up there with Donnie Darko, Mulholland and Memento.

Here's another for the growing list: Abre los Ojos/Vanilla Sky. Their basically the same movie, Abre los Ojos came first though and then Cameron Crowe made it better.

Yikes, Korean it is. I amend my remark above to: the peoples of Northeast Asia and immediate costal environs are really into some weird shit.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #17 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcfsu

A few comments on some suggestions:

Dark City and eXistenz are decent -- make you think? Not so much.

Bah --- combine that comment with midwinter's feigned 'not knowing' why people 'like' that movie so much, and BRusell's highly heretical comment about the storyline of Solaris being 'slow-moving' and the mystery 'not all that interesting' --- I have to ask.... is movie watching for you guys always have to be a trip to the philosophical Nuremberg rallies?

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #18 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:41pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

Being John Malkovich?
Pi?
Requiem for a Dream? (*shudder*)
The Interview?
Baghdad Cafe?
Crash (the Cronenberg one)?
Junior Brown's Planet?
Heat?
Gods and Monsters?
House of Sand and Fog?
The House of Yes?
Identity?

Thanks for the suggestions. I've seen several of them, but I've never heard of Junior Brown's Planet. What's that? I didn't see it on Netflix or Amazon. Seeing Pi and Requiem for a Dream also reminds of Primer (oh I guess it's not by the same guy - I thought it was).
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post #19 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

Bah --- combine that comment with midwinter's feigned 'not knowing' why people 'like' that movie so much,

It wasn't feigned. I honestly don't understand why people like that movie.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #20 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:48pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

... and wasn't occupying the pre/post coital timeframe?

dmz, for me, everything is either pre- or post-coital.

I did like Solaris, BTW. But it was slow. So was 2001: Space Odyssey.

[edit]ah, dmz, you edited out your best line!
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post #21 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:49pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

It wasn't feigned. I honestly don't understand why people don't like that movie.

Feigned! Admit it! Feigned in a moment of post-coital scheming!
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #22 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:52pm
If you liked Persona try some of the earlier efforts.

E.g., the Virgin Spring. That one knocked me for a loop and a half.
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post #23 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo

If you liked Persona try some of the earlier efforts.

E.g., the Virgin Spring. That one knocked me for a loop and a half.

Try watching Virgin Spring trans-coital. It's revelatory.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #24 of 61
9/25/06 at 8:59pm
Thread Starter 
addabox - I haven't seen a single one of those! Thanks.
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post #25 of 61
9/25/06 at 9:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

It wasn't feigned. I honestly don't understand why people like that movie.

Yes, of course.

My god, man!? why all the baiting? ... Sewell's character's primo 'birth' experience in the bath at the beginning, through the repeated 'escape from control' of the 'beings that live off others' themes--coupled Jack Bauer's use of science to overcome, to help the Übermensch realize himself -- culminating in the overthrow of the Fates....?

Give me a break.....

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #26 of 61
9/25/06 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timo

If you liked Persona try some of the earlier efforts.

I saw that in a european film class when i was in college. Loved it.
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post #27 of 61
9/25/06 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

Yes, of course.

My god, man!? why all the baiting? ... Sewell's character's primo 'birth' experience in the bath at the beginning, through the repeated 'escape from control' of the 'beings that live off others' themes--coupled Jack Bauer's use of science to overcome, to help the Übermensch realize himself -- culminating in the overthrow of the Fates....?

Give me a break.....

I don't have a clue what all this means...
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post #28 of 61
9/25/06 at 9:14pm
Polanski's The Tenant
Coppola's The Conversation
Soderbergh's The Limey
Welles' The Trial
...and anything by Kubrick, but especially A Clockwork Orange
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post #29 of 61
9/25/06 at 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dmz

Yes, of course.

My god, man!? why all the baiting? ... Sewell's character's primo 'birth' experience in the bath at the beginning, through the repeated 'escape from control' of the 'beings that live off others' themes--coupled Jack Bauer's use of science to overcome, to help the Übermensch realize himself -- culminating in the overthrow of the Fates....?

Give me a break.....

How about instead of acting like an ass you believe me when I say "It wasn't feigned. I honestly don't understand why people like that movie"?

If what you're describing here is in fact why people like the moviebecause it sticks ham-fistedly to some kind of Jungian/Nietzschean/Campbellian narrative structurethen fine. I don't find that kind of narrative structure interesting or compelling in and of itself, and I was hoping there was more to it than a stylized Campbellian masturbation with reference to neither Baudrillard nor simulacra that I was missing, considering the sheer volume of film buffs I know who love it. Is there something special about the acting? About the sci-fi adaptation of noir? About the noir adaptation of sci-fi? about the sets? about the lighting? camera work? the effects?

But seriously, man. This is AO, not PO. I'm not baiting anyone and I'm making sincere statements. You can ratchet down the paranoia about a thousand percent.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #30 of 61
9/25/06 at 11:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

Thanks for the suggestions. I've seen several of them, but I've never heard of Junior Brown's Planet. What's that? I didn't see it on Netflix or Amazon. Seeing Pi and Requiem for a Dream also reminds of Primer (oh I guess it's not by the same guy - I thought it was).

The Planet of Junior Brown is a weird little movie I caught late one night on cable. Was apparently released as Junior's Groove, but a solid performance by Sarah Polley, Margo Kidder (who I don't like), and Clark Johnson (Meldrick on Homicide).
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post #31 of 61
9/25/06 at 11:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by geekdreams

Polanski's The Tenant
Coppola's The Conversation
Soderbergh's The Limey
Welles' The Trial
...and anything by Kubrick, but especially A Clockwork Orange

Good ones, all.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #32 of 61
9/26/06 at 12:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

The Planet of Junior Brown is a weird little movie I caught late one night on cable. Was apparently released as Junior's Groove, but a solid performance by Sarah Polley, Margo Kidder (who I don't like), and Clark Johnson (Meldrick on Homicide).

Ooooh, for intense BRussell could just do a "Homicide" marathon. Andre Braugher is an entire sub-genre of intense unto himself.

Oh yeah, let me add to the list Run Lola Run and The Princess and the Warrior, both by German director Tom Tykwer and both staring sexy-in-that- slightly-butch-Euro-way Franka Potente.

Both are a tad gimmicky but tons 'o fun. Run Lola Run, in particular, is one of those "I"m too crazed with film ideas to edit myself or say no to my most excessive impulses" kind of deal but in a highly controlled German way.
They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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They spoke of the sayings and doings of their commander, the grand duke, and told stories of his kindness and irascibility.
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post #33 of 61
9/26/06 at 1:22am
Clark Johnson is also a director; mainly TV shows like The Shield, but he did make The Sentinel with Michael Douglas recently. And if you like Andre Brougher, I suggest you download the first season of Thief if you haven't seen it already. Very intense show, and not all flashy like that Heist show on NBC.
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post #34 of 61
9/26/06 at 7:14am
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

How about instead of acting like an ass you believe me when I say "It wasn't feigned. I honestly don't understand why people like that movie"?

If what you're describing here is in fact why people like the movie—because it sticks ham-fistedly to some kind of Jungian/Nietzschean/Campbellian narrative structure—then fine. I don't find that kind of narrative structure interesting or compelling in and of itself, and I was hoping there was more to it than a stylized Campbellian masturbation with reference to neither Baudrillard nor simulacra that I was missing, considering the sheer volume of film buffs I know who love it. Is there something special about the acting? About the sci-fi adaptation of noir? About the noir adaptation of sci-fi? about the sets? about the lighting? camera work? the effects?

But seriously, man. This is AO, not PO. I'm not baiting anyone and I'm making sincere statements. You can ratchet down the paranoia about a thousand percent.

I call baiting on the highest order. If you thought the movie was clumsy, you should have said so. Guilty!!








(that said, my cat-kicking deficit need not show in my posts -- apologies)

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

Reply
post #35 of 61
9/26/06 at 7:19am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I don't know what you mean by "challenging"

I mean films that you don't really understand when you're watching them the first time. YOu have to do a lot of work just to figure out what's going on.
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post #36 of 61
9/26/06 at 7:22am
Have you seen 'Festen'?
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post #37 of 61
9/26/06 at 7:30am
No mention of 2046 yet‽ That's a new classic. also Kieslowski's double life of veronique.

BTW, if you haven't read it yet, the new yorker article on mulholland drive's background is the key to understanding much of the big picture, and if Auditioning Betty in Mulholland Drive from the fall 04 film quarterly deconstructs the most important scene.
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post #38 of 61
9/26/06 at 7:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

I mean films that you don't really understand when you're watching them the first time. YOu have to do a lot of work just to figure out what's going on.

You mean like puzzle films?
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post #39 of 61
9/26/06 at 8:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

Ooooh, for intense BRussell could just do a "Homicide" marathon. Andre Braugher is an entire sub-genre of intense unto himself.

I thought about just saying that, too. Especially those early seasons.

Quote:
Oh yeah, let me add to the list Run Lola Run and The Princess and the Warrior, both by German director Tom Tykwer and both staring sexy-in-that- slightly-butch-Euro-way Franka Potente.

With the caveat that they are largely the same movie. Although the train in Wupperthal that runs over the river is very cool (I stayed, brielfy, in the city where the Princess and the Warrior was filmed).
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #40 of 61
9/26/06 at 8:25am
What about Peter Jackson's Heavenly Creatures?
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