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The Republican Party is in flames and it's raining gasoline.

post #1 of 302
Thread Starter 
OK, so, um, WTF is up with the Republicans and the Bush White House? Is God angry? Are chickens coming home to roost? 5 weeks till the elections and Rove must have blood squirting out of his eyes.

Let's go down the list:

--Iraq. I mean, you know. Nothing new, really, but..... somewhere over the last few months seems to have crossed over into some kind of political death zone. Like, nobody's talking purple finger democracy any more and the only talking point left to the Republicans is some kind of bizarre "we fucked it up so we must be allowed to, um, keep doing whatever it is we are doing because we are mean and strong and democrats are weak and fearful". I mean, they sound insane, and given the poll numbers apparently not just to the usual suspects.

-- NIE report said to contain conclusion that Iraq is making terrorism worse. President blusters, tells everyone to wait to make up their mind until they read it. It says Iraq making terrorism worse. Huh?

--Woodward's book reveals Tenet runs over to White House with his hair on fire to press urgent sense that al Qaeda attack is imminent. White House and Condi claim no such meeting. Meeting is confirmed, White House and Condi say "oh, that meeting", yeah, they took Tenet very seriously. Except for the part about apparently forgetting it ever happened. All of this in the climate of renewed discussion of who did what when after Clinton's push back against Wallace, which was supposed to afford the right a nostalgic trip down "volatile crazy liberal lane" and a firming up of the pre-election "Clinton did it" meme. Rove. Eyes. Blood.

--Foley scandal. Good lord. Are these guys just tired of pretending to govern and trying to get tossed out? Foley, bad, House leadership sitting on it, worse, Hastert's completely brain dead response, changing his story every 15 minutes for the first day, completely flabbergasting. Don't they have handlers or something?

-- And, just because he apparently felt left out, Bill Frist allows as how the Taliban, the practically-a-chapter-of-al-Qaeda Taliban is so mighty that it cannot be defeated and should instead be made part of the Afghani government. Karl Rove's dog explodes.

Really, I've never seen the like of it. On top of the ongoing abysmal poll numbers and the seemingly endless Abramoff related fall-out and assorted scandals it's positively biblical.

I fully expect a sky blackening cloud of locusts to emerge from Dick Cheney's mouth.

And it all hits at supposed Republican strengths: national security and morals. I dunno, if Rove has an October surprise up his, um, sleeve, he better pull it out pretty quick and it better be huge. Cause another week or two of this and it really won't matter anymore.
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post #2 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

OK, so, um, WTF is up with the Republicans and the Bush White House? Is God angry? Are chickens coming home to roost? 5 weeks till the elections and Rove must have blood squirting out of his eyes.

Let's go down the list:

--Iraq. I mean, you know. Nothing new, really, but..... somewhere over the last few months seems to have crossed over into some kind of political death zone. Like, nobody's talking purple finger democracy any more and the only talking point left to the Republicans is some kind of bizarre "we fucked it up so we must be allowed to, um, keep doing whatever it is we are doing because we are mean and strong and democrats are weak and fearful". I mean, they sound insane, and given the poll numbers apparently not just to the usual suspects.

-- NIE report said to contain conclusion that Iraq is making terrorism worse. President blusters, tells everyone to wait to make up their mind until they read it. It says Iraq making terrorism worse. Huh?

--Woodward's book reveals Tenet runs over to White House with his hair on fire to press urgent sense that al Qaeda attack is imminent. White House and Condi claim no such meeting. Meeting is confirmed, White House and Condi say "oh, that meeting", yeah, they took Tenet very seriously. Except for the part about apparently forgetting it ever happened. All of this in the climate of renewed discussion of who did what when after Clinton's push back against Wallace, which was supposed to afford the right a nostalgic trip down "volatile crazy liberal lane" and a firming up of the pre-election "Clinton did it" meme. Rove. Eyes. Blood.

--Foley scandal. Good lord. Are these guys just tired of pretending to govern and trying to get tossed out? Foley, bad, House leadership sitting on it, worse, Hastert's completely brain dead response, changing his story every 15 minutes for the first day, completely flabbergasting. Don't they have handlers or something?

-- And, just because he apparently felt left out, Bill Frist allows as how the Taliban, the practically-a-chapter-of-al-Qaeda Taliban is so mighty that it cannot be defeated and should instead be made part of the Afghani government. Karl Rove's dog explodes.

Really, I've never seen the like of it. On top of the ongoing abysmal poll numbers and the seemingly endless Abramoff related fall-out and assorted scandals it's positively biblical.

I fully expect a sky blackening cloud of locusts to emerge from Dick Cheney's mouth.

And it all hits at supposed Republican strengths: national security and morals. I dunno, if Rove has an October surprise up his, um, sleeve, he better pull it out pretty quick and it better be huge. Cause another week or two of this and it really won't matter anymore.

You forgot one major thing my friend, Diebod E-voting machines. The Republicans will simply skew the numbers where necessary to keep control of both houses the same way they did it in 2004, Ohio anyone. Until there is a paper trail of some kind or at least acurate accountability you can bet your ass the Democratic party will always be the minority.
When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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When I looked up "Ninjas" in Thesaurus.com, it said "Ninja's can't be found" Well played Ninjas, well played.
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post #3 of 302
I still don't think that the people are ready to trust the Democrats. Time will tell.
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post #4 of 302
I blame Bill Clinton.
post #5 of 302
double post
post #6 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

I still don't think.

T,ftfy.
post #7 of 302
If there's one thing Democrats accel at it is misreading the tea leaves and losing elections they should have won.

Take Iraq. American are fed up with it. They are disapointed and defeated. BUT THEY STILL WANT TO WIN THERE. Call it Rambo bravado, but enough americans still want to win it and still more just don't want to lose. So the Democrat's position of "lost cause, pull out" wont win an election. Even if it's the right thing to do.

Two elections we've had democrats lose when they should have won. The cop out is "Diebod" or "Florida recount". It's for sure that Republicans are rigging the elections as much as they can but if the elections weren't so close it wouldn't be an issue.
post #8 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

I still don't think that the people are ready to trust the Democrats. Time will tell.



Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #9 of 302
Like the title by the way.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #10 of 302
I bet if we look back, we will find this kind of thread before the 2004 election also... I hope that the Republicans pick up enough seats to push through a revocation of the estate tax - after that, I'm fine
with the Democrats picking up the presidency in 2008 (though, hopefully not enough seats to raise taxes).
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post #11 of 302
The combination of solid districts and Republicans who don't really care what their party does because they're the Party of God, means that what should be a devastating loss for Republicans will be much less than that, historically.

I think Dems will take the House by a few seats, and probably tie in the Senate. But historically, that's about an average shift.
post #12 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I bet if we look back, we will find this kind of thread before the 2004 election also... I hope that the Republicans pick up enough seats to push through a revocation of the estate tax - after that, I'm fine
with the Democrats picking up the presidency in 2008 (though, hopefully not enough seats to raise taxes).

I notice that you talk about taxes, but you didn't say anything about cutting spending or keeping taxes in line with spending. Do you know we're in debt? Is that OK, as long as you get more money?
post #13 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

I notice that you talk about taxes, but you didn't say anything about cutting spending or keeping taxes in line with spending. Do you know we're in debt? Is that OK, as long as you get more money?

I want them to cut spending as well, but how likely is that? Not very - they have to spend a lot of money on crap to stay elected. I'm not intending to be here 20 years from now when the debt comes due anyway.
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post #14 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac




Time will tell, but I anticipate our friends on the left being a bit disappointed in early November. I can already here the "The Republicans stole the elections" smack.
"some catch on faster than others"
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post #15 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I want them to cut spending as well, but how likely is that? Not very - they have to spend a lot of money on crap to stay elected. I'm not intending to be here 20 years from now when the debt comes due anyway.

So you want them to run the debt up further by cutting taxes, and then be gone when the piper comes around. Great.
post #16 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hassan i Sabbah

double post

Don't worry about the double post... you can never blame Clinton enough!
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
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post #17 of 302
Good, because it's Bill Clinton's fault.
post #18 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Relic

You forgot one major thing my friend, Diebod E-voting machines. The Republicans will simply skew the numbers where necessary to keep control of both houses the same way they did it in 2004, Ohio anyone. Until there is a paper trail of some kind or at least acurate accountability you can bet your ass the Democratic party will always be the minority.


I guess it has already started! Setting up the loss as a resulty of Republicans cheating!
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post #19 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I bet if we look back, we will find this kind of thread before the 2004 election also... I hope that the Republicans pick up enough seats to push through a revocation of the estate tax - after that, I'm fine
with the Democrats picking up the presidency in 2008 (though, hopefully not enough seats to raise taxes).

F*ck your estate tax. There's a whole hell of a lot more at stake than that this election. We need Democratic control of at least one house of Congress so that we can finally get some checks and balances going here.

I realize this sounds very alarmist, but I'm very worried that our democracy itself is at stake here. Bush is well on the way to establishing an imperial Presidency with unchecked executive power. Torture? Secret prisons? Warrantless wire tapping? All in the name of the "war on terror", an on-going condition which has no end, used to justify practically any presidential action whatsoever? The Republican-controlled Congress hasn't been doing the job it needs to do to keep the presidency from turning into near dictatorship.

I'd rather spend the next two years with nothing getting done in Washington at all except congressional investigations and the generation of a whole lot of legislation the President won't sign than risk another two years of sinking further into Bush's power grab.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #20 of 302
I Blame Clinton and the LIBERAL!!!! MEDIA!!!!

HAHA!

Fellows
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May the peace of the Lord be with you always

Share your smile, Have respect for others, and be loving to all peoples

Paul in Athens: Acts 17 : 16-34
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post #21 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fellowship

I Blame Clinton and the LIBERAL!!!! MEDIA!!!!

HAHA!

Fellows


It's amazing how much the Clintons messed up the country. It's taking President Bush and his people years to sort it all out.
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post #22 of 302
"Startling new revelation from Foley - Bill Clinton Made Me Do It"

Film at 11...
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post #23 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

I want them to cut spending as well, but how likely is that? Not very - they have to spend a lot of money on crap to stay elected. I'm not intending to be here 20 years from now when the debt comes due anyway.

Do you have children? Do you brothers or sisters who have children? If you answered "Yes" to any of those questions, do you feel comfortable saddling them YOUR DEBTS for the next 30+ years?

I am absolutely appalled at certain people's point of view. How can you justify that line of reason? If you have a legitimate way of rationalizing it, I really want to hear it.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
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-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #24 of 302
Quote:
Karl Rove's dog explodes.

It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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It's just an object. It doesn't mean what you think.
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post #25 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

It's amazing how much the Clintons messed up the country. It's taking President Bush and his people years to sort it all out.

Oh please, tell me how?? More than you one-liner crap you are so fond of. Some real hard evidence please. Yeah, a surplus is such a bad thing. Great foreign relations with most of the world; a heart-breaking tragedy.

Seriously, tell me how Clinton screwed up this country. Some real evidence, not some emotional mumbo-jumbo. Also, if blow job is anywhere in your rebuttal, expect the following from me:

Disregard of Article 4 of the Bill of Rights: no warrant wire-tapping.
Iraq: Invaded sovereign nation, under a premise of falsified information.
9/11: Knowledge beforehand, and no actions taken.

*** And that will just be the start of my rebuttal ***

However, any other grievous crimes against this country, and I will be happy to listen to them, and make a rational conclusion from the information posted.

Ball's in your court, southside.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #26 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Eggleston

Do you have children? Do you brothers or sisters who have children? If you answered "Yes" to any of those questions, do you feel comfortable saddling them YOUR DEBTS for the next 30+ years?

I am absolutely appalled at certain people's point of view. How can you justify that line of reason? If you have a legitimate way of rationalizing it, I really want to hear it.


Well, they would come with me when I leave the country. Mobility of workers is a great thing, because it forces countries to compete for workers and wealthy individuals by lowering taxes. After I left Canada, they dropped their tax rates to stop so many workers from leaving for the USA.

The national debt is really unrelated. Taxes will be set by the need to retain workers, and the debt ceiling will be set by the torrence of the population for debt - I don't think it matters what rate we pile up debt, because US culture is debt-tolerant, and we will get to the limit of our comfort zone sooner or later regardless of how long it takes us. Once we get to the limit of our comfort zone, we will either make it hard for people to leave (so that we can raise taxes) or else we will cut government spending.

And it isn't "my debts" anyway - I pay way more taxes than I consume in government services. I also have a 100% Libertarian voting record, so you can't blame me transitively either.

BTW - are you releated to the speaker-building Eggleston fellow?
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post #27 of 302
It seems the republican party has gone super left:
You may cast votes on policy while being an addmitted alcoholic gay sexpredator and that's OK. Just don't marry Jack Daniels.
post #28 of 302
Let’s start with decimating the military and the intelligence community which resulted in very low military morale and made us vulnerable to attack.
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post #29 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by e1618978

And it isn't "my debts" anyway - I pay way more taxes than I consume in government services.

BTW - are you releated to the speaker-building Eggleston fellow?

First off, let me apologize for making a snap-judgement about why you said what you said. I made a grievous error in my assumption, and I apologize.

And no, I do not think I am related. However, strangely I have been seeing my last name crop up more frequently than before.
-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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-- Mac Finatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027
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post #30 of 302
Even win Republicans lose, they win. Didn't you know? For a classic example, check out Trumptman's posts in the Foley thread. Priceless.
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post #31 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

Lets start with decimating the military and the intelligence community which resulted in very low military morale and made us vulnerable to attack.

Was that the same military that defeated Afghanistan in a month and conquered Iraq in two weeks? That Clinton military? Just wanted to check and make sure we're talking about the same military. Ass.
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post #32 of 302
Best title for a thread... ever.

Boom! (with apologies to Steve Jobs)

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #33 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

Lets start with decimating the military and the intelligence community which resulted in very low military morale and made us vulnerable to attack.

Ok, first off, he did not decimate the military or intelligence community with his budget cuts. These budgets had to be approved by both the House and Senate: both of which controlled by the Republican Party. Also, if you read what he was trying to do, he was trying to streamline the military, not decimate it, as you say.

Did the cuts result in lower morale? I don't know, you would have to ask a military person. Did it make us vulnerable? Nope. When people ignore reports that an impending attack is coming, it is no longer a military issue of vulnerability, it is now an administrative issue.

So, is there anything else you see that Clinton did that made him such a bad president?
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post #34 of 302
Thread Starter 
It's certainly true that Dems have amazing abilities to pull defeat from the jaws of victory, and I wouldn't ever make the mistake of wrting off the Republican chances to pull something out of their hat, given recent history.

But: I have never seen anything like the current conflagration of bad news and bad candidates for a ruling party. When the Dems lost it there were "rumblings", a sense that they had lost the plot and a sea change was underway-- this despite Clinton's ongoing popularity as president. The Republicans did an excellent job of capitalizing on an opportunity and implementing a long-term plan that had planted the seeds years before.

But this? If you follow the Congressional races around the country you see district after district that had been considered "safe" fall into the "contested" category, "contested" seats drifting ever Dem-wards, and "vulnerable" Democratic races completely locked up.

You could add to the original list Katherine Harris's complete implosion in Florida, Tom DeLay's botched withdrawal from the race, George Allen's "macaca" fiasco, Conrad Burns berating firemen (among other odd remarks), and the apparent melt-down via corruption of big chunks of the Ohio and Kentucky Republican parties.

Will it all turn into a Republican route? I have no idea. But it's pretty clear that this is the time of the year that the right would really like to be talking about what pussies the Dems are and how they voted against giving Bush "the tools" he needs to Keep You From Being Blown Up In Your Bed, and the fact is they can't get a word in edge-wise because highly visible Republicans keep fucking up horribly.

That's a very different matter from pushing back against a Democratic political attack, which the right is really good at. Sure, you can say, "oh, they're just making a big deal of this for partisan reasons" but these aren't "charges" leveled by partisans, they're events. Outside of a little kvetching, there is no way for Hastert to make his problems into "scurrilous partisan slander", because we can all see what went down.

The NIE isn't a Dem hatched job. The damning scenes in Bob Woodward's book (the same Woodward whose last two books on Bush were practically worshipful) are being confirmed by the NSC. Condi Rice has pretty clearly been caught in a lie, and a lie that is critical to people's perceptions of how serious the Bush admin about 'fighting terror". People like Harris and Allen are burying themselves.

It's just perplexing, is all, for the mighty Rove machine to so spectacularly implode at such a critical juncture before an election. Maybe this is the October surprise, and it all works to their advantage somehow. But almost everyone agrees that an election like this hinges on energizing the base, and it's hard to see where the kind of disheartening news (for the right) that has become such a steady drumbeat over the last few months gets the party faithful fired up.
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post #35 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by southside grabowski

Lets start with decimating the military and the intelligence community which resulted in very low military morale and made us vulnerable to attack.

Right. And morale in your military under Donald Rumsfeld is the envy of the world, I understand.
post #36 of 302
Hassan is engaged in a heated exchange with southside grabowski.
post #37 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by addabox

But: I have never seen anything like the current conflagration of bad news and bad candidates for a ruling party.

I just don't know if all of this bad news is really sinking that far into the public consciousness. If anyone had really been paying attention back in 2004 there's no way Bush would have won then. Ironically this Foley sex scandal, which is really a third-rate reason for a major political shift, seems more likely to me than anything else to help push things over the edge in the November elections to give control of the House to Democrats, and maybe, just maybe, the Senate too.

The Iraq debacle, Afghanistan falling apart, huge deficits, cronyism, torture, wire tapping, indefinite detention without charges or access to the courts, a horrible lack progress on things that would really matter in fighting terrorism like port security and securing chemical and nuclear plants, etc... If anyone was really paying attention to what's happening in this country the only thing we'd be debating is how overwhelmingly big Republican losses in November were going to be.

That there's still any chance at all that Republicans might maintain full control of Congress -- and there most certainly is such a chance -- baffles me completely. Yet I know that all it would take is the emotional impact of just the right kind of news story Republicans could play to the hilt, or simply a lack of any particularly bad news for Bush and the Republicans in the last remaining weeks before elections -- as the public gets distracted by the next sports scandal or missing blonde girl or celebrity divorce and forgets what they were mad about last week -- for Republicans to maintain control.

There's a hard core of about 30% out there who will vote Republican no matter what. Someone could catch Bush, Hastert, and Frist burying dead, sodomized cub scouts in the Rose Garden, and this 30% would simply blame Satan or Bill Clinton (practically the same thing, right?) for Dubya's "momentary" failings in the face of temptation, and decide it was all a "test of faith" to see if they will still stand behind God's Chosen President and Party, regardless of extraneous details like facts and real-world events.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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post #38 of 302
Right on the money Adda. That's why I have a chesire grin on my face right now. Because NONE of this is because dirty tricks perpetrated by Dems.
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post #39 of 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

Hassan is engaged in a heated exchange with southside grabowski.

And I will win this exchange.

And if I don't I will finish the washing up. Wait and see.
post #40 of 302
Don't "cut and run" Hassan. You need to "stay the course."
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