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Briefly: Reflections on some time spent with Zune - Page 3

post #81 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness

So what about the education market? At one time, Apple owned that, now it seems like it's mainly Dell. Apple tried for the business market, but other than the Lisa, they seemed not to make much of a go at it.

Apple does well at marketing Macbooks and iPods, and to the graphical market. Probably 1/4 of every laptop I see is an Apple, and the white earbuds are hard to miss. As for the Zune, I saw a video demo of one, and liked the GUI, it was clean and a bit different from the rest of the DAP's, If Microsoft can get the player/PC integration down, like iTunes/iPod, then many aspects are equal - the software synchronization with iTunes is key for me, but sometimes I wish the iPod did a bit more, and offered more customization. There is iPodWizard, but it is awfully convoluted. Screw the iPod games, Apple should offer iPod themes though ITMS.

They tried with the Apple III, but that was rushed out the door and had many problems. It didn't succeed.

The Lisa was also a failure. It cost $8,ooo, about $20,000 in todays dollars. Far too much.

The Mac was put out to try to salvage some of the Lisa's R&D, as well as some of the parts. It was far less capable than the Lisa.

Job's insistence that it not be an open design almost killed it too from the very start.

If it weren't for Aldos Pagemaker, and the Hp laser printer, which evolved into the Apple Laserwriter, Apple probably wouldn't be here today.
post #82 of 114
So let me get this straight. If MS sells 3 million units at a $50 loss on each, then how excited can they be at the prospect of paying 150 million dollars to do that????
-ReCompile-
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post #83 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

So let me get this straight. If MS sells 3 million units at a $50 loss on each, then how excited can they be at the prospect of paying 150 million dollars to do that????

it depends on why they would be willing to take the loss in the first place.

Why has MS been willing to lose $1.2 billion on their games division each year they have been selling the XBox?

Because it represents a business that they feel they MUST have some control over. Networked game play which arises from that is something MS considers to be a required possession. It also leads to other areas, such as payments to play, etc.

They would be needing the Zune to succeed because without a strong player in the market, WMA might fail. That would be a disaster for them. They would lose any possibility to remain relevant in the media market. This would cause them to lose any chance of royalties from its use, the inclusion of it from any other hardware and software.

MPEG 4 uses MS technologies as well as those from Apple. If MS lost WMA, that would never happen again.

This would severely restrict MS's growth in the downloadable content market for phone companies, cable companies, satellite companies, etc. There is big bucks waiting there.

MS is always willing to lose some of those built-in monopoly profits on new ventures, if they feel they need to expand in that direction.

It took them years for their portable (now Mobile) OS to mature into the versions it is in today. They lost a vast sum during that time, and there is no evidence that even now, with the popularity of their mobile versions, that they are even breaking even. But they deem it to be far too important to not allow someone else to own that market as Palm looked to be doing, and that now Symbian is doing in Europe.

They don't want to feel as though they are being boxed in. The market for their OS's, and Office are growing, but at the rate the industry is growing, no faster. They also feel as though that growth may be limited by Linux, and possibly even the Mac OS, so they want to move in other directions.

No doubt they also feel as though computers are going to move further off the desktop, and that they must move with it. The tablet is so far at least, a failure, having captured no more than 0.5% of the market. so they try everything they can, therefore Origami (spelling?).

Don't be surprised to see them try many different products in many different markets, hoping that some will stick.

Some will.
post #84 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReCompile

So let me get this straight. If MS sells 3 million units at a $50 loss on each, then how excited can they be at the prospect of paying 150 million dollars to do that????

Steve Ballmer will be very excited to do it and he will be touching you in one or many places and squirting stuff at you. You think I'm kidding, right? 8)
http://appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2131

Come on, who doesn't like 150 million dollars worth of squirting going on?
post #85 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

how do you come up with this stuff? hehehe. so funny. ...one of my favorite iPod engravings is "this device is a bomb" and "leave me here. save my ipod"

Heh. Sometimes this sh*t just writes itself. I have no control over the inspiration and bursts of humour. Luckily I do have control over my bowels and bladder.

Sometimes the iintarweb is one big, disturbing comedy show. With some informatio- youtube- eao - educatshionamal- googalinformation. And pr0n. Don't forget the pr0n.

"Leave me here. Save my ipod" is gold

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post #86 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Heh. Sometimes this sh*t just writes itself. I have no control over the inspiration and bursts of humour. Luckily I do have control over my bowels and bladder.

Sometimes the iintarweb is one big, disturbing comedy show. With some informatio- youtube- eao - educatshionamal- googalinformation. And pr0n. Don't forget the pr0n.

"Leave me here. Save my ipod" is gold

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You know, you really do have too much time on your hands. I thought you were finally working.
post #87 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

You know, you really do have too much time on your hands. I thought you were finally working.

Meh. Quiet, you.
post #88 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

Well, quite honestly, if I wanted to make a fair review I would first and foremost make sure I have enough battery life to conduct all the tests and then report the amount of time the battery lasted. Kind of like iLounge reviews where they tell you know long can you expect a full iPod charge to last. But saying "oh, the battery went out. can't do much about it" I know they may have not had a Zune unit for a long while, but just sounds lazy.

It's stupid to make accusations of laziness when you don't know the circumstances of using it. From the article, I got the impression that this guy was just handed a Zune and allowed to play with it for a few minutes. The battery ran out. Is it somehow dishonest or biased to report that fact? Is he supposed to pretend it didn't happen?

Quote:
Originally Posted by guinness

So what about the education market? At one time, Apple owned that

And they lost market share there because MS was able to leverage their monopoly in the business and home spaces. People use a PC at work, so they get one at home, so they insist their kid uses one at school. What does that have to do with the iPod market (besides demonstrate that monopolies are hard to overturn and fairly easy to expand)?
post #89 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

From the article, I got the impression that this guy was just handed a Zune and allowed to play with it for a few minutes. The battery ran out. Is it somehow dishonest or biased to report that fact? Is he supposed to pretend it didn't happen?

The problem is that reporting this fact gives absolutely no information one way or the other about the Zune's battery life. If I fully charge my iPod, use it for 20 hours straight and then give it to someone to play with for a while, the battery will run out. So what?

If you haven't had the opportunity to play with a fully-charged Zune, you shouldn't be reporting anything regarding battery life.
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post #90 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

The problem is that reporting this fact gives absolutely no information one way or the other about the Zune's battery life. If I fully charge my iPod, use it for 20 hours straight and then give it to someone to play with for a while, the battery will run out. So what?

If you haven't had the opportunity to play with a fully-charged Zune, you shouldn't be reporting anything regarding battery life.

He wasn't reporting battery life, he was stating what happened when he was using it.

If someone gave me an iPod to try, and people here wanted me to give my impressions, and the battery ran out when I was attempting something, I would say that I couldn't try that because the battery ran out.

It's not a report on battery life, merely an explanation of why I couldn't try that feature at the time.
post #91 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

how do you come up with this stuff? hehehe. so funny.

one of my favorite iPod engravings is "this device is a bomb" and "leave me here. save my ipod"

Even better, based on the experience of the guy on the WoW forums who had a plane force land because of his iPod: "My last iPod got me treated as a terrorist".
post #92 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas

Even better, based on the experience of the guy on the WoW forums who had a plane force land because of his iPod: "My last iPod got me treated as a terrorist".

"Hello from Tehran"
post #93 of 114
post #94 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

It's stupid to make accusations of laziness when you don't know the circumstances of using it. From the article, I got the impression that this guy was just handed a Zune and allowed to play with it for a few minutes. The battery ran out. Is it somehow dishonest or biased to report that fact? Is he supposed to pretend it didn't happen?

well, we don't know for sure.

it's stupid to say that what i'm saying is stupid, specially because neither you or i have a way of knowing, from what the article says, if it's what i'm saying or if it was what you're thinking. got that?

so i'll just stick to my idea that the review sounds lazy and fanboyist and you can think it's honest, unbiased and professional. sounds good?
post #95 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody56292

wait, "Hello from Seattle"??? it doesn't say that on the back. Is he sure that wasn't just on the demo units? It isn't going to be on the official Zunes.


that's because once Zunes are assembled in Asia, they drop them by Steve Balmer's house, where he personally squirts the words "Hello from Seattle" on each and every new zune.
post #96 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

well, we don't know for sure.

Well, if we don't know for sure, it's stupid to make accusations, isn't it?

If you're checking out something and the battery dies, I don't understand how reporting that is "fanboyist". A battery dying is a fact, not an opinion.

And it still doesn't make sense why you'd accuse an article of bias when half the things he says are positive or neutral.

(but I guess I shouldn't be surprised to hear that coming from a lazy fanboy )
post #97 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

well, we don't know for sure.

it's stupid to say that what i'm saying is stupid, specially because neither you or i have a way of knowing, from what the article says, if it's what i'm saying or if it was what you're thinking. got that?

so i'll just stick to my idea that the review sounds lazy and fanboyist and you can think it's honest, unbiased and professional. sounds good?

Well, one one reads the original article, one can get a good idea of what is being said.

You seen to have some problem with this simple thing, though I don't know why.

He's reporting a fact. That's All. No representation about battery life was made. It was an observation that when he wanted to try something, he couldn't, because the battery ran out.

What's the problem here?
post #98 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

Well, if we don't know for sure, it's stupid to make accusations, isn't it?

If you're checking out something and the battery dies, I don't understand how reporting that is "fanboyist". A battery dying is a fact, not an opinion.

And it still doesn't make sense why you'd accuse an article of bias when half the things he says are positive or neutral.

(but I guess I shouldn't be surprised to hear that coming from a lazy fanboy )

boy, you sure are upset i don't agree with you, huh?

i stand by my opinion, lighten up stupid (to borrow from your book)

cheers
post #99 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Well, one one reads the original article, one can get a good idea of what is being said.

You seen to have some problem with this simple thing, though I don't know why.

He's reporting a fact. That's All. No representation about battery life was made. It was an observation that when he wanted to try something, he couldn't, because the battery ran out.

What's the problem here?

wait wait wait, i'm just stating my opinion here. i said that it sounds fanboyist and lazy and that's it. to me it's just lazy, not to mention unfair, to write down an article for a device when you didn't just have enough time and battery life to check it out. relax mel.

who's having problems with simple things, huh? just an opinion. what the article says is clear. but regardless of what it says, and regardless of the time the battery lasted, i can think whatever i want to think about the reviewer.
post #100 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

boy, you sure are upset i don't agree with you, huh?

No, I have no idea what would make you think that. You sure you understand what those smilies mean?

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

wait wait wait, i'm just stating my opinion here. i said that it sounds fanboyist and lazy and that's it. to me it's just lazy, not to mention unfair, to write down an article for a device when you didn't just have enough time and battery life to check it out.

That makes no sense. We're talking about an unreleased product that few people have any access to. You honestly think that just because his access was more limited, he shouldn't have written at all about it? Somehow his facts somehow become untrue and his opinions become biased?

And you still keep ignoring the fact that this "biased" and "fanboyist" review has a lot of positive things to say.

Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

regardless of what it says, and regardless of the time the battery lasted, i can think whatever i want to think about the reviewer.

And we can point out your bias and paranoia. Cheers.
post #101 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

wait wait wait, i'm just stating my opinion here. i said that it sounds fanboyist and lazy and that's it. to me it's just lazy, not to mention unfair, to write down an article for a device when you didn't just have enough time and battery life to check it out. relax mel.

who's having problems with simple things, huh? just an opinion. what the article says is clear. but regardless of what it says, and regardless of the time the battery lasted, i can think whatever i want to think about the reviewer.

I'm pretty relaxed. I didn't say anything strident. You seem to be upset with the whole thing.

You can think anything you want. I don't disagree there. I'm just trying to understand why you think that, when the article wasn't the review you are saying it was. It was basically just a: "I was handed this device, and I tried it out. Here's what happened."
post #102 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by minderbinder

No, I have no idea what would make you think that. You sure you understand what those smilies mean?



That makes no sense. We're talking about an unreleased product that few people have any access to. You honestly think that just because his access was more limited, he shouldn't have written at all about it? Somehow his facts somehow become untrue and his opinions become biased?

And you still keep ignoring the fact that this "biased" and "fanboyist" review has a lot of positive things to say.



And we can point out your bias and paranoia. Cheers.

oh whatever dude. it's just a review by some nobody and i'm not spending any more keystrokes on it. it's just my opinion, it's not that hard to grasp. it's cool.
post #103 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

I'm pretty relaxed. I didn't say anything strident. You seem to be upset with the whole thing.

You can think anything you want. I don't disagree there. I'm just trying to understand why you think that, when the article wasn't the review you are saying it was. It was basically just a: "I was handed this device, and I tried it out. Here's what happened."

if you really want to understand why i think that the reviewer is lazy and fanboyist i will explain it again, just not to be rude. i think that if the review had said "the zune's battery cell was not fully charged" it would have made a big difference, because with the review as it is, you just have no idea if the battery just lasts very little or if the device was not fully charged. to me it's just a lazy review, and one that tries to make the zune look bad in the aspect of battery life. really, i dont care much about it, i just thought that the reviewer's choice of words could have been more explicit. that's all. okay i'm done with this subject.
post #104 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

if you really want to understand why i think that the reviewer is lazy and fanboyist i will explain it again, just not to be rude. i think that if the review had said "the zune's battery cell was not fully charged" it would have made a big difference, because with the review as it is, you just have no idea if the battery just lasts very little or if the device was not fully charged. to me it's just a lazy review, and one that tries to make the zune look bad in the aspect of battery life. really, i dont care much about it, i just thought that the reviewer's choice of words could have been more explicit. that's all. okay i'm done with this subject.

Ok, I understand your point.

I'll leave it at that.
post #105 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

if you really want to understand why i think that the reviewer is lazy and fanboyist i will explain it again

If it's any consolation, I understand where you are coming from. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to call it fanboyist, but as it stands the article does seem pretty pointless.

It told me only two things that I didn't already know, they are pretty minor, and since I haven't been following the Zune that closely, it's possible that one or both of these things had already been mentioned elsewhere:

1.) The casework is more like "hard rubber" than "plastic".

2.) The back of the Zune says "Hello from Seattle" on it.

On the battery front, whilst I agree that reporting the fact that the battery ran out is not biassed, it is accompanied by the statement that the battery was "far less robust than an iPod's". If you didn't have the time to use the Zune in several different usage scenarios from fully charged in all cases, you have no authority to be stating the battery is "less robust than an iPod's".
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post #106 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. H

If it's any consolation, I understand where you are coming from. Personally, I wouldn't go so far as to call it fanboyist, but as it stands the article does seem pretty pointless.

It told me only two things that I didn't already know, they are pretty minor, and since I haven't been following the Zune that closely, it's possible that one or both of these things had already been mentioned elsewhere:

1.) The casework is more like "hard rubber" than "plastic".

2.) The back of the Zune says "Hello from Seattle" on it.

On the battery front, whilst I agree that reporting the fact that the battery ran out is not biassed, it is accompanied by the statement that the battery was "far less robust than an iPod's". If you didn't have the time to use the Zune in several different usage scenarios from fully charged in all cases, you have no authority to be stating the battery is "less robust than an iPod's".

You can look to the spec's. In one way it is, and in another, it isn't. No word on what the WiFi does to it though.

http://www.zunescene.com/
post #107 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by monkeyastronaut

it's just a review by some nobody

It wasn't a review, just some simple reflections based on short, casual usage.
post #108 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk

It wasn't a review, just some simple reflections based on short, casual usage.

Exactly. Yet there are still complaints that the guy didn't run it through a freaking laboratory.
post #109 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

What really turned the company around, however, was the release of the first ever "killer app." This was VisiCalc, the original spreadsheet application, which was released in 1979.

That is not the whole picture, the Apple II was way nicer than the TRS-80 (even with the 8" floppy drive on the TRS-80). My high school had a Wang mini-computer, which was replaced by a pair of TRS-80s and a PET, but once the Apple II arrived nobody touched those old computers.

It was more fun to program, had more games (which were easy to copy with a pair of floppy drives), and it just had a more friendly feel to it (kind of like the IPod). For me, the PET would have taken over from the TRS-80 had the Apple II not arrived, it was almost as nice as the Apple II.
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post #110 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross


VB is going away in the PC world as well. MS is depreciating it. Two years from now, and by by.

Unless Microsoft is doing away with Access along with custom Excel formulas, don't count on it.
post #111 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K.

Unless Microsoft is doing away with Access along with custom Excel formulas, don't count on it.

It's not my idea, it's theirs.
post #112 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

It's not my idea, it's theirs.

Show me where this info came from. I say total BS.

Dropping VB for the Mac makes sense to them. Dropping in their Windows suite does not make any sense. VBA is one of the reasons why no other office product can't touch Office.

Is Microsoft still trying to figure out how to move VBA 7.0 to VBA.NET (or something similar)? Yes. But they have no intentions of dropping it out of Office.

Dave
post #113 of 114
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave K.

Show me where this info came from. I say total BS.

Dropping VB for the Mac makes sense to them. Dropping in their Windows suite does not make any sense. VBA is one of the reasons why no other office product can't touch Office.

Is Microsoft still trying to figure out how to move VBA 7.0 to VBA.NET (or something similar)? Yes. But they have no intentions of dropping it out of Office.

There may be subtleties here. It's true as far as I remember with respect to Office for Mac, but I don't remember if it's being dropped in the Windows version. I think it was announced by MS:MBU during WWDC06 that VBA was not going to be in the next version of Office for Mac. AppleInsider had an article about it. I need to get to work, so I can't dig up the article, but it shouldn't be hard to find.
post #114 of 114
Yep, Microsoft want you to use VSTO (http://msdn.microsoft.com/office/tool/vsto/default.aspx )

VBA is in the next version of Office for Windows but only 32bit. There were various reports of MS execs saying the version after that though dropping VBA in favour of VSTO derived .net managed code. I presume their dropping COM too finally.
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