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Ballmer claims Microsoft won't lose money on Zune - Page 3

post #81 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacGregor

Thanks for the disclosure, but from your webpage regarding games for the iPod ... I think you are mistaken in your assertion that Apple missed in not opening the SDK's to third parties right away. Not all of the games were developed by Apple. Apple must have had to release the SDK's to some of the other games vendors - we just don't know about them yet. I think alot of those enabling capabilities and apps haven't come to the light of day, but are being worked on in many basements around the country...

You raise a lot of good points, and particularly about the problems Palm had (or at least Palm owners had) when the many homegrown apps out there were tied closely to specific OS versions.

I think that problem could be even more severe with Zune, in that it seems that Microsoft is planning to expand Zune features over time through firmware upgrades. So from an apps development point of view the OS and firmware could be a moving target.

Thanks, McGregor. I'm going to keep at the website but I know what you mean about the chances of Zune - or any product - breaking into a market that has a category-killer like iPod.

- frabgod
post #82 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I think what is meant is the number of clicks needed to perform a basic task. It's kind of the idea that makes it an efficient user interface. How many clicks does it get to just start playing? How many clicks does it take to start a given playlist? I'm not sure iPod is as great as it could be in that regard, I think the video section is a bit of a mess, at least my biggest compliant is that "video playlists" can have ordinary audio files in the list and they aren't marked as such in the listing. If I wanted to play audio files, I'd go back to the Music section. It's kind of a slight-of-hand because Zune isn't allowed to have a click wheel, and that makes scrolling a lot easier, so clicks-per-action would probably give iPod an unfair advantage because scrolling might not be counted.

I was thinking about that too. But after seeing a Zune video, I am convinced that it will probably have less clicks per action than ipod.

Zune Walthrough

video isn't very entertaining, but it does give alot of information. ( pay close attention to the way the menu is laid-out, no more clicking back 2-5 times everything is handled on slides )
post #83 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by kadajawi

Uh... wasn't Apple the company who had this scratch problem? My front row remote has lots of scratches, and I really don't use it that often. And I'm handling it with care. The new nano was a good move.
Album art... have you seen the Zune interface. Wonderful... huge album art, looks very clean, nice integrated. Into the whole interface.
What do you mean by clicks-per-action?
I think the sharing feature will be quite a feature to most customers, more than things like screen brightness or scratch-proof-ness (I guess that gets important when you notice that it's a problem on your player).

That being said, the "maybe we'll put advertisement on the player on day or another" thing is really putting me off. That and DRM.

The brown player actually looks quite nice I think, it's something different, not as striking as most of the nanos colors. Not everyone likes that.

The PSP is also reknowned for scratching, but one doesn't hear as much about it.

Hp just came out with a new laptop that they are advertising on Tv. It had what looks to be a beautiful gloss black surface. My bet is that it will also get very scratched, but not too much will be made of it.

All cell PDA phone and PDA screens get scratched. I use screen protectors.

All gloss finishes will scratch.

It's to be expected. I don't know why people can't seem to understand that.
post #84 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I think what is meant is the number of clicks needed to perform a basic task. It's kind of the idea that makes it an efficient user interface. How many clicks does it get to just start playing? How many clicks does it take to start a given playlist? I'm not sure iPod is as great as it could be in that regard, I think the video section is a bit of a mess, at least my biggest compliant is that "video playlists" can have ordinary audio files in the list and they aren't marked as such in the listing. If I wanted to play audio files, I'd go back to the Music section. It's kind of a slight-of-hand because Zune isn't allowed to have a click wheel, and that makes scrolling a lot easier, so clicks-per-action would probably give iPod an unfair advantage because scrolling might not be counted.

But scrolling wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage, as most reviewers consider it to be vastly superior. So do most users.

But oranges to oranges in comparing my Treo 700p with Palm vs. the Treo 700w with Windows.

It takes me one to four clicks to do what it takes the w three to eight clicks. And the hardware is almost exactly the same.

That's a big difference, and all reviewers have made a big note of that and downgraded the Windows version in part, because of it.
post #85 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

But scrolling wouldn't be considered an unfair advantage, as most reviewers consider it to be vastly superior. So do most users.

...

It takes me one to four clicks to do what it takes the w three to eight clicks. And the hardware is almost exactly the same.

I fully agree that scrolling by the "wheel" is superior, but it is still an action that must be performed, and it does take some amount of time and in some ways, it requires a little more dexterity than pressing and holding a button. It's clearly twitchy whenever I try to rate a song.

Scrolling using the wheel is not something I would consider to be a button click, but what I am saying is that the action still needs to be accounted to properly compare user interfaces.
post #86 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by kadajawi

Uh... wasn't Apple the company who had this scratch problem?...

Yes Apple has been naughty in the scratch-proofing department. The iPod Mini is still the most scratch-proof iPod ever, especially the screen. It's a hard glass of some sort AFAIK, not plastic. I saw the 5th gen 30gb iPod video my friend showed me on Friday, and the scratches were like, whoa. iPod mini owners know what I am talking about, and would be shocked when they see the scratches on the iPod video and iPod nano previous generation.

Also for Sony Ericsson phone owners - my V600i has an awesome hard glass-type screen, seems to be holding up scratch-wise quite well.

It seems that plastic screens seem to be the ones that suffer from scratching and scuffing. A decent glass screen holds up much better, unless you use keys or coins and purposely scratch it in a soft casing and holding it, leaving it on the table, bed, etc, glass holds up well. I'm very happy with the glass screen on my SE V600i phone over the cute but more plastic-y screen of the T630...
post #87 of 92
The previous gen iPod nano and the iPod video are the most notorious for scratching because the front surface is all plastic of the same kind, not just the screen.
post #88 of 92
If the reports of the Zune being a rubber-like surface thingy then it will hold up better to scratching, the screen being the only danger of naughty scratches.

From brief looks at the PSP it also has a overall plastic thing going on for the whole front surface, so scratching concerns there.
post #89 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I fully agree that scrolling by the "wheel" is superior, but it is still an action that must be performed, and it does take some amount of time and in some ways, it requires a little more dexterity than pressing and holding a button. It's clearly twitchy whenever I try to rate a song.

Scrolling using the wheel is not something I would consider to be a button click, but what I am saying is that the action still needs to be accounted to properly compare user interfaces.

I think it's a difficult comparison.

For one or possibly two things it might be more trouble, but for everything else, it's clearly better.

One must evaluate the interface as a whole to come to a meaningful conclusion.
post #90 of 92
Quote:
Originally Posted by Woody56292

I was thinking about that too. But after seeing a Zune video, I am convinced that it will probably have less clicks per action than ipod.

Zune Walthrough

video isn't very entertaining, but it does give alot of information. ( pay close attention to the way the menu is laid-out, no more clicking back 2-5 times everything is handled on slides )

The top menu doesn't really seem like an improvement, iPod has all those things at the top level and you can always get there in one click. And how do you access the top menu on Zune, they don't explain that.

Shuffle/repeat setting from within songs is nice, I wish iPod let you turn shuffle on and off anywhere. Flag just seems like the on the go playlist (which is cool, but iPod should let you add songs while they're playing, not just while they're selected).

Album art is nice, and the interface is generally "pretty" although it seems like it could be hard to read.

Claiming that going sideways for pix seems a bit dishonest since it's only an improvement for landscape pix, while it's worse for portrait pix (and of course they don't show any with a vertical orientation). And it's really the same aspect ratio for video and pix that iPod has had all along.

Anyone else catch that the videos are hosted on microsoft's website? Not surprising since the guy doing the interview comes off as such a shill.
post #91 of 92
About that website:

How can anyone be a "Zune Enthusiast" when they haven't even shipped yet?!? Has this person never seen an iPod?

There are some advantages to a vertical display when doing things with lists and it is nice to be able to switch, but no one will know if it is better than an iPod until they have owned one for at least two weeks.

I do like in-song options like that. In general Apple is correct in making anything complicated happen in iTunes and not on the mp3 device itself, but a few more options would be nice.

Aside: I would like to add a few preferences to the iPod, such as showing time as a default, etc.

The Zune display looks nice and the interface is pretty. I think Apple should be comfortable enough in its own manhood to allow people to theme the iPod ui by now. If Apple opened up the gui to themes, there would be a hundred websites devoted to it overnight!! And that alone would overshadow the Zune.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
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The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
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post #92 of 92
Steve Ballmer sounds more like a hardcore pimp in his interview with BusinessWeek than a CEO with all that talk of "touching" and "squirting". With Microsoft having a CEO like Ballmer, everytime he opens his mouth he turns more people off to Microsoft and on to Apple. Keep it up Ballmer!

Well, I really have to tip my hat to those Microsoft marketing folks relative to the Zune that comes in Black, White and BROWN. It looks like they picked a color that accurately describes peoples feelings of this product.
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