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Apple MacBook owners organizing class action lawsuit - Page 2

post #41 of 62
I have a MacBook that was purchased July 1. It also has the Random Shutdown problem. One day in particular it shutdown about 5 times in a row, rendering the system unusable.

I got this machine primarily for teaching workshops and to run Windows and Ubuntu with Parallels. It's not really replacing my desktop G4 (yet). It is a good thing too, because if it shutdown on me randomly while I was working on something critical I would be slightly miffed.

Since I have AppleCare on this unit - and I would suggest that EVERYONE get AppleCare on any of Apple's products that has an LCD in it - I am going to wait until they have some definitive repair programs in place before sending it in.

post #42 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by archangel37

I think you're a bit off here too. The reason it could be taking so long is simple manufacturing issues: Apple probably didn't have tens of thousands of extra heatsinks laying around. That, and it took some time for them to diagnose the problem.

That said, at least from my experience, the wait time is definitely improving - two days in my case. That's not too bad.

Moreover, if you think that a class action lawsuit is automatically a valid signal of massive widespread problems...well...you may want to rethink that. Even as a law student, I realize that not all class action lawsuits have merit.

So would "not too bad" describe the wait time before or after the improving? Is "tens of thousands" not considered widespread? Does going from "widespread" to "merit" dispell that this is happening to lots of people?

Just trying to understand how off I am in seeing this is a widespread problem.
post #43 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123

So would "not too bad" describe the wait time before or after the improving? Is "tens of thousands" not considered widespread? Does going from "widespread" to "merit" dispell that this is happening to lots of people?

Just trying to understand how off I am in seeing this is a widespread problem.

Not too bad is most definitely after they figured out what the hell was wrong and after they managed to get the parts in mass.

I'm not actually sure the numbers of RSS sufferers - some say .1 to 1%. If 750,000 have been sold, then even tens of thousands wouldn't be widespread.

I think it's clear that it's happened to "lots" of people - depending on how you define lots, of course. And what I'm referring to re: merit is that previous argument (if one can call it that) that the presence of a class action lawsuit is a sign that the problem is widespread - I think that's false, and moreover, the presence of a CAL certainly doesn't show merit to the basis of the suit.
post #44 of 62
Right. CAL just means the product has sold a lot of units. Nothing else. The lawyers look for the best-selling products as the number of things to claim go up with the number of units produced. As Apple makes more money, the lawyers will look to it for quick extortion of a settlement - they know that a company with a hot product will be quick to cough up the extortion money in order not to have the bad publicity.
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post #45 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by wilco

The reply was appropriate for the original post. Thanks for your input, though.

The reply was a flame and personal attack against a member. Such posts are never permitted and any further posts of that nature will result in a site ban.
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post #46 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave
The word should be "recedes." Trust me, I am intimately familiar with that word!

Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Is this a hair problem then?

Oh, yeah! The hairline beat a hasty retreat in my early to mid twenties, but has been holding steady for many years -- it's fighting trench warfare with male pattern baldness!
post #47 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaslove

Unfortunately, there is a bit of that, even in the multi-national stuff going on from jeans to electronics. Verité, a non-profit social auditing and research organization, checks that kind of thing. Dan Viederman is executive director there and a good guy to talk to about that stuff. Even the toy industry is trying to police it with their CARE Process for ethical manufacturing. Not saying China does things others don't either, though. A lot of it going around.

There's a difference between a sweat shop, which exists everywhere, and slave, or prison labor.

Does he have documentation on which foreign companies have used either? That's a pretty damning accusation, and would have to be backed up with a lot of proof.
post #48 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123

So would "not too bad" describe the wait time before or after the improving? Is "tens of thousands" not considered widespread? Does going from "widespread" to "merit" dispell that this is happening to lots of people?

Just trying to understand how off I am in seeing this is a widespread problem.

Do you have a statement from somewhere reliable that says that it involves tens of thousands. Because I haven't seen a number put on it yet.
post #49 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by macFanDave

Oh, yeah! The hairline beat a hasty retreat in my early to mid twenties, but has been holding steady for many years -- it's fighting trench warfare with male pattern baldness!

So far I've been lucky. My hair started to move upwards with the glaciers a few years ago, shortly after my 50th birthday. So far the climate is holding it at the same altitude.

As long as it doesn't get any warmer I'll be ok. Otherwise it's going the way of Mt. Kilimanjaro.
post #50 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

There's a difference between a sweat shop, which exists everywhere, and slave, or prison labor.

Does he have documentation on which foreign companies have used either? That's a pretty damning accusation, and would have to be backed up with a lot of proof.

For Verite go here http://www.verite.org/ (there are lots of reports on various manufacturing infractions around the world), but the ones for private consumption like the Disney reports (Disney hired Verite in August 2005 in order to find out what was actually going on in China and to try to clear their name or make changes about forced labor and dangerous labor practices in four Chinese factories licensed to create its branded products), I had through interviewing the Verite people, Disney people, and Harry Wu the China activist (very amazing guy who has been doing work on the Laogai's and that sort of thing after leaving China, returning and getting caught back there, etc.).

House of Representatives bill 2195 (1997) was trying to put more money into the Customs people's hands to stop influx of prison labor goods (among other things). There's lots of other stuff. The problem is we outsource so much to China, no one wants to make waves, so as much as companies are aware, if it's not too large a percentage of their goods and isn't too public, it kinda gets swept under the rug. No one wants to do it, but it's hard to police in China. Companies here are told one thing while another thing happens over on the mainland. Getting anyone on the ground to talk about it is very, very difficult so it's tough to keep tabs on. But, people are trying.
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post #51 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Do you have a statement from somewhere reliable that says that it involves tens of thousands. Because I haven't seen a number put on it yet.

No, I haven't been able to find a reliable number. Some numbers tossed around on macbookrandomshutdown.com . But I can't find that post, of course.

As far as I can tell, and I'd love to be proven wrong, the percentage is no where near the double digits. Not even the high single digits. Which tends to disprove the widespread angle.
post #52 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by firsttube

Haha, well said! May I recommend hair plugs?

Tried the hair plugs, cpu shorted out......
post #53 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrikmk

I'm really scared of buying one. Friends of mine have bought macbooks and experienced random shut downs, sending it in for repairs only to have it returned with the same problems again unfixed.

Then again, you don't hear about macbook owners who has one that just works perfectly. Is there anyone in here who has a perfect working macbook and uses it heavily?

Hi! I have had my white MacBook for more than two months now, and it has been working flawlessly!
No discoloration whatsoever, no "mooing", involuntary restarts or anything.
It gets a bit hot, though, but it is never a big problem. In addition I really like Mac OS X, with its stability and lack of viruses and immunity of spyware. I for one have never regretted buying my MacBook. The computers running on Windows lack the finesse and cleverness of the Mac; at least right out of the box.

Cheers,
Jan Tore, Norway.
post #54 of 62
I have to say that my friend just received his Macbook two weeks ago and he has Random Shutdowns frequently.....it has now gotten to the point where his Macbook won't even start. My Macbook arrives hopefully tomorrow and I am really hoping that I don't have any problems with it.

But as far as Apple fixing the logic boards on new shipments, I think my friend can attest to that just not happening. And since this problem is acknowledged by Apple, it begs the question; Why aren't they replacing the logic boards on the newer shipments?
post #55 of 62
Has this RSS thing now been sorted. Thinking of getting a macbook but worried I might experience these problems?

Thanks

Julie
post #56 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by CanadianDude

I have to say that my friend just received his Macbook two weeks ago and he has Random Shutdowns frequently.....it has now gotten to the point where his Macbook won't even start. My Macbook arrives hopefully tomorrow and I am really hoping that I don't have any problems with it.

But as far as Apple fixing the logic boards on new shipments, I think my friend can attest to that just not happening. And since this problem is acknowledged by Apple, it begs the question; Why aren't they replacing the logic boards on the newer shipments?

Did your friend get his directly from apple? Maybe it was old stock?

 

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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The reason why they are analysts is because they failed at running businesses.

 

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post #57 of 62
Sure enough, about a week after my last reply to this thread I had a random shut down. I installed the firmware upgrade and I've been running okay ever sense. With any luck I will continue to do so.
post #58 of 62
I am the IT Product Manager for a large 2500-employee AV technology company with offices all over the US, Canada, Mexico and the UK. In my role, I specify and recommend IT products to our more than 700 locations nationwide and international. These products include computers, monitors, printers, MP3 players, etc. Unfortunately, I will no longer be recommending Apple products based on my own personal experience.

In May 2006, I purchased one of the first black Intel-based Apple MacBooks through one of our resellers. In addition, I also purchased AppleCare, with the idea that I would have complete peace of mind for the next 3 years with my new MacBook. Alas, that was not to be the case!

Next, I will detail the history of my MacBook over the past 2 years:

1.\tA few months after my purchase, the MacBook began to randomly reboot--the so-called RSS problem. This issue has been well documented in article #304308 on Apple's website. I took it down to my local Apple store and had the issue fixed within a couple of days. I thought great service!
2.\tDuring Christmas 2006, I started noticing how the black finish was discoloring even though I only have had it for less than a year. I took it down to the Apple store, where I was informed that it only applied to the white notebooks. However, my black unit has also discolored and it looks older than it really is. No repair was performed.
3.\tIn early 2007, the original 80GB hard drive failed completely, causing me to lose my data. I understand that it is not Apples responsibility to back up my data and thankfully, I had done a previous backup a month or so before. Still, the hardware problems continue. Again, I took another trip to the Apple store to get it replaced.
4.\tIn late 2007, my battery began failing. It would no longer hold the charge at all. Again, as you can image, my frustration level began to build up. At this point, I was beginning to wonder what is going on with Apple quality control. Once again, after another trip to the Apple store, I was able to get this fixed.
5.\tIn February 2008, yet another issue appeared: the SuperDrive began jamming. Discs would come out scratched and/or would fail to burn half way through the process. Worse yet, the disc would not eject at all. As you can imagine, the pattern continued: another trip to the Apple store to get it fixed.
6.\tJust a week or so ago, I noticed the screen beginning to flicker randomly. The flickering would get worse whenever it was being used with the battery power only. When it was plugged in with the power supply, it was still noticeable, but not as bad. Finally, I got the kernel panic message You need to restart your computer. I was about to haul it to the Apple store yet again when unbeknownst to me, my wife spilled some liquid on the keyboard. I took it to the Apple store today; after a couple of hours, I received a call from tech support at the store informing me that because of the spillage on the logic board, this repair is not covered under AppleCare. As I mentioned earlier, the flickering issue was already present before the spillage. In addition, the part and labor comes close to $1000, not even the value of this notebook after two years.

As you can understand that after 2 years of frustration with this product, I no longer feel confident that I can recommend Apple products to our field facilities. We make our products available to our high end clients at 4- and 5-star hotel locations. These customers expect the highest level of performance and support for the products that we provide to them. I feel that Apple no longer fits that bill.

I have been a big Apple/Mac fan for many years, starting with the eMac systems and have been a big supporter of Apple products, which have been very reliable until I bought this Macbook. I have bought and recommended your complete line, including the Apple CinemaDisplay, iMac, Mac Mini, Power Mac G4/G5, iPod, Apple TV, and MacBook/MacBook Pro.

Many of our VPs and directors have always complained about the premium price that our company pays for an Apple product as opposed to a Dell, HP or Toshiba system. I can no longer say with confidence that the premium price is worth it.
post #59 of 62
yawn . . .
-- Jason
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post #60 of 62
Well, they are selling like crazy now and 17% of the notebook market; 40% of higher ed choice.

So go to another website and screw up one of THEIR 18-month-old threads.

As to your "IT" recommendation, I learned a long time ago to ignore any opinions or "recommendations" from "IT." Everyone knows that "IT" gets job security from "recommending" Windows.

Drawing a bogus "conclusion" about a model of notebook computer based on a single unit is ridiculous.

Apple, according to Consumer Reports, has the highest marks for customer service. You could have easily gotten your unit replaced - many have.

You also should have contacted Executive Relations.
--Johnny
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post #61 of 62
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpreza View Post

I am the IT Product Manager for a large 2500-employee AV technology company with offices all over the US, Canada, Mexico and the UK. In my role, I specify and recommend IT products to our more than 700 locations nationwide and international.
3.\tIn early 2007, the original 80GB hard drive failed completely, causing me to lose my data. I understand that it is not Apples responsibility to back up my data and thankfully, I had done a previous backup a month or so before. Still, the hardware problems continue. Again, I took another trip to the Apple store to get it replaced.

I understand that individual items made by any manufacturer can go lemony (and be very frustrating)... things happen, good and bad. But to use that one item as a total judgment against a company, especially for someone who's making buying recommendations for so many, seems statistically silly. Me, I'd check a lot more than one item before passing on the info. I mean, suppose you got the one good computer from a notoriously bad company... would you then recommend those computers? How could you be sure from only one data point?

Worse to me is if you were recommending computers to a company of mine, and I found out you didn't back up your own computer more than once a month ("or so")... I'd be very wary of your recommendation. If you're supposed to know computers but don't have a good backup plan... then, to me, how can I be sure you really know computers well?
"I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused."
Macbook Pro 2.2
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"I used to be disgusted, but now I try to be amused."
Macbook Pro 2.2
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post #62 of 62
The Fact these units are failing in High numbers is like Honey to my ears.{yay} THIEVES, The issues are Prevelant, I Do know the" exact" cause and "effects", (Do NOT Need some German Engineer to tell Thermal tales).. Apple is most likely aware of all defects, Not to include the"I" issue..... Just keep us in mind down the road as I see these to be a pandemic or across the board problem in my opinion. Food for thought and I will never divulge further Mac Issues to Apple period. They can hire me to find out or wait for further problems through their own means...

Or through After the fact process..

Ken
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