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post #121 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

http://people-press.org/reports/disp...3?ReportID=295



Asked about the Republicans polling surge:



The internals of the polls have Democrats scared. Examples:

Dems now lead 47-43 in the generic ballot. Their lead was 53 to 40 in October.

Men went Dem 48 to 44 in October. Now they go Dem 46 to 45.

Women went Dem 56-38 in October. Now it's down to 48 to 41.

Whites went 49 to 44 Dem in October. Now it's the opposite...48 to 43 GOP.

White males were 49 to 42 GOP in October. Now they're 51 to 42 GOP


18 to 49 year olds were 53 to 40 Dem. Now they are 48 to 44 Dem.


There have clearly been some major shifts in data there. The link to the internals pdf file can be found here: http://people-press.org/reports/tables/295.pdf

Last week I would have said Dems take the House and Reps keep the Senate. Now I think The Republicans have a good shot at the house. It's a complete toss up and everyone...even you know it.


Actually the report I recently read showed more young people voting than ever before and they're likely to vote liberal.

Just like the good old days when I was young.

As for the house they're now saying it's not a matter of will the republicans lose control but how much.


Also finally there's this poll.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/...oll/index.html
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post #122 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

You'd rather have the same old republican rule we've had for the last 6 years and later on Bush's sucessor?

yes, I know its harsh for the world, but we'd be better off if this era went down as being the result of 1 party and 1 state of mind.

Sorry to bring the Nazi's up again, but imagine if Hitlers military defeat had been swift shortly after he had started the war.

For all the evil he did and caused - the fact that it ran to its conclusion of being utterly destroyed has been better in the long run than if he had been swiftly defeated.

It was only when the Germans saw and knew the full horror of what they had supported and what had been done in their name, that there was a radical change of psyche amongst the german people.

If Hitler's war had been over in a week, they would not have learned the lesson - and you could be sure that they would have regrouped, reformed, learned from their tactical mistakes and come back twice as hard a decade later. And we might have been fighting a war until 1980, which caused a magnitude more damage and death than WW2.

The same of the Republicans. They are not destroyed yet. If we beat them now, the GOP will not have learned the lessons. They will be down, but there will be no change of psyche amongst the supporters. At the moment its all still someone elses fault but their own. They will regroup, reform and they will come back at us with the knowledge of why they had a setback - and it wont happen again, and it will be a magnitude more damaging next time around than it is now. They really need to see, whatever the horrors of 'more of the same', that this is their fault - of their own making.

If however they are allowed to win this vote - and if they follow through with 4 or 8 more years of rule as they are doing, you can be sure that they will become so extreme and Iraq will be such a failure that people are going to change. There will be people on the streets begging for them to go. And it will be a lesson that isn't going to be forgotten for many generations to come.

If however the Dems win tomorrow, come the next election - the reason why were failing in Iraq is going to be because the GOPs hands were tried and crippled because of their lack of power. We know this fuckup is solely to blame on 1 administration, but come the election, spin and FUD will be set in full motion and the ignoramus 'wont be so sure'

A wise person once said "IF you strike me down now, I will come back more powerful than you can imagine". Its true, if you strike someone down they come back - if you allow them to destroy themselves, they're permanently out.
post #123 of 176
Easy for you to say, MarkUK. You don't have to live through the shit in the mean time.
post #124 of 176
Incidently, for the benefit of the nation and people of Iraq, the best thing we could do is pull out tomorrow.

Yes, there will be some very harsh consequences, that in the short term will cause far more killing than there is now.

People become somewhat Jaded to the fact that a few tens of people get killed every day.

They appear to hate each other* and pull out would result in civil war almost guaranteed. Alot of people would die - but it will rapidly escalate into a full blown war, and you are going to find that ten people dying today rapidly becomes 100 tomorrow, then 1000 a day, then 10000 a day - then you will see that they realise that this modus operandi isn't going to work, because they are only mutually destroying themselves.

Then it will have to stop and be bought to the table and they will have to work together. And they will build the nation back stronger than it has ever been.

Or we could maintain a presence, numb to a few people dying each day and this could go on for 20 years, with the result that many more people die, and they are 20 years behind where they could have been.
post #125 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by thuh Freak

Easy for you to say, MarkUK. You don't have to live through the shit in the mean time.

Indeed, it is easy to say - I can only offer a genuine apology for that fact.

I want them out as badly as anyone, but not if it means we have to live through all this again in 10 years time.
post #126 of 176


All released today (polled in early November):

ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST

D = 53%, R = 43%

CNN

D = 54%, R = 39%

GALLUP/USA TODAY

D = 51%, R = 38%

NEWSWEEK

D = 52%, R = 36%

PEW RESEARCH CENTER

D = 48%, R = 40%

Minimum = +8% D, Maximum = +16% D, Average = +12.4% D

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post #127 of 176
The "Liberal media" at work.
Fox can't bring themselves to even mention the name Dems.

post #128 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

That Pew poll showed tightening, but two other polls since then - from CNN and from Fox - showed the Democratic lead increasing over the past week.

No one thinks Republicans have a shot at keeping the House. It's going to be Speaker "Bitch" "Cunt" "Fag hag" Pelosi next year. The Senate is going to be close - close enough that the votes of Republicans like Olympia Snowe are going to put an end to a lot of Republican silliness even if they retain control.

"No one?" I don't know about that. I think it's a toss. If a gun was to my head I'd say the Dems win, but I don't know.

BTW: I don't support that kind of language to describe Pelosi. I do find the notion of her becoming speaker horrifying. I also think we'll regret it.
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post #129 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

Actually the report I recently read showed more young people voting than ever before and they're likely to vote liberal.

Just like the good old days when I was young.

As for the house they're now saying it's not a matter of will the republicans lose control but how much.


Also finally there's this poll.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/...oll/index.html

jimmac, you may be right. But how can you just flatly IGNORE this Pew Poll? How can you just utterly IGNORE that huge swing in the numbers? Did you even read the PDF?
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post #130 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

yes, I know its harsh for the world, but we'd be better off if this era went down as being the result of 1 party and 1 state of mind.

Sorry to bring the Nazi's up again, but imagine if Hitlers military defeat had been swift shortly after he had started the war.

For all the evil he did and caused - the fact that it ran to its conclusion of being utterly destroyed has been better in the long run than if he had been swiftly defeated.

It was only when the Germans saw and knew the full horror of what they had supported and what had been done in their name, that there was a radical change of psyche amongst the german people.

If Hitler's war had been over in a week, they would not have learned the lesson - and you could be sure that they would have regrouped, reformed, learned from their tactical mistakes and come back twice as hard a decade later. And we might have been fighting a war until 1980, which caused a magnitude more damage and death than WW2.

The same of the Republicans. They are not destroyed yet. If we beat them now, the GOP will not have learned the lessons. They will be down, but there will be no change of psyche amongst the supporters. At the moment its all still someone elses fault but their own. They will regroup, reform and they will come back at us with the knowledge of why they had a setback - and it wont happen again, and it will be a magnitude more damaging next time around than it is now. They really need to see, whatever the horrors of 'more of the same', that this is their fault - of their own making.

If however they are allowed to win this vote - and if they follow through with 4 or 8 more years of rule as they are doing, you can be sure that they will become so extreme and Iraq will be such a failure that people are going to change. There will be people on the streets begging for them to go. And it will be a lesson that isn't going to be forgotten for many generations to come.

If however the Dems win tomorrow, come the next election - the reason why were failing in Iraq is going to be because the GOPs hands were tried and crippled because of their lack of power. We know this fuckup is solely to blame on 1 administration, but come the election, spin and FUD will be set in full motion and the ignoramus 'wont be so sure'

A wise person once said "IF you strike me down now, I will come back more powerful than you can imagine". Its true, if you strike someone down they come back - if you allow them to destroy themselves, they're permanently out.


I think that's an interesting analysis, your comparison to the Nazis aside (I wish people would stop that...it's absurd to compare Republicans to Nazis).

Many GOP voters have been considering punishing the GOP for their lack of action in the past two years. I am displeased with them as well, but I know the Dems will be far worse.

My feeling is that if the Dems win, it will be a disaster for them. They'll either do nothing or really make this a mess by instituting their agenda (reversing the Bush tax cuts, pulling out of Iraq ASAP, investigating the admin and possibly impeaching Bush, spending more on social programs, etc). They will likely hand the Republicans the election in 2008. Or, they will have gridlock for two years as Bush vetos everything under the sun.
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post #131 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

Incidently, for the benefit of the nation and people of Iraq, the best thing we could do is pull out tomorrow.

Yes, there will be some very harsh consequences, that in the short term will cause far more killing than there is now.

People become somewhat Jaded to the fact that a few tens of people get killed every day.

They appear to hate each other* and pull out would result in civil war almost guaranteed. Alot of people would die - but it will rapidly escalate into a full blown war, and you are going to find that ten people dying today rapidly becomes 100 tomorrow, then 1000 a day, then 10000 a day - then you will see that they realise that this modus operandi isn't going to work, because they are only mutually destroying themselves.

Then it will have to stop and be bought to the table and they will have to work together. And they will build the nation back stronger than it has ever been.

Or we could maintain a presence, numb to a few people dying each day and this could go on for 20 years, with the result that many more people die, and they are 20 years behind where they could have been.


Completely and utterly disagree. Pulling out now would not be a good idea...for us, or for them.
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post #132 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

I think that's an interesting analysis, your comparison to the Nazis aside (I wish people would stop that...it's absurd to compare Republicans to Nazis).

Absolutely! Republicans don't have anywhere near as much fashion sense.
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post #133 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

That Pew poll showed tightening, but two other polls since then - from CNN and from Fox - showed the Democratic lead increasing over the past week.

No one thinks Republicans have a shot at keeping the House. It's going to be Speaker "Bitch" "Cunt" "Fag hag" Pelosi next year. The Senate is going to be close - close enough that the votes of Republicans like Olympia Snowe are going to put an end to a lot of Republican silliness even if they retain control.

I think the Republicans will keep the house and although I may be no one to you, I'm still a somebody.

(Yippee for self-esteem classes)

The reasoning on the house races is circular and not related to actual data. People have claimed that the generic party vote relates to voter enthusiasm and thus how likely certain candidates are to win open or competitive house races. The few polls that exist for the house races are horrible in their spread. We are talking nine to fifteen point swings being common within the same timespan and different polls.

The point remains that the generic party vote has in no way been predictive of house controll or trends within local house elections.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #134 of 176
We therefore HAVE to stay. Great: get us into a bad situation through lies, and then force the country to commit through this sort of perverted logic.

"We can't leave now. "

Dems want to leave, and thus the terrorists will win. Repubs want to stay and finish the fight.
Dems are sooooooo unAmerican. Is Bush intent on starting the Bush UnAmerican Activities Board?

We should not have been there in the first place.

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #135 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister

We therefore HAVE to stay. Great: get us into a bad situation through lies, and then force the country to commit through this sort of perverted logic.

"We can't leave now. "

Dems want to leave, and thus the terrorists will win. Repubs want to stay and finish the fight.
Dems are sooooooo unAmerican. Is Bush intent on starting the Bush UnAmerican Activities Board?

We should not have been there in the first place.

1. You can debate whether or not we should have been there. It's kind of pointless now though.

2. There is no evidence anyone lied about WMD or manipulated intel. An investigation found as much.

3. Dems want to leave NOW. That would not be good because it would leave the Iraqis unprepared for our departure.

4. Oh stop.
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post #136 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent



All released today (polled in early November):

ABC NEWS/WASHINGTON POST

D = 53%, R = 43%

CNN

D = 54%, R = 39%

GALLUP/USA TODAY

D = 51%, R = 38%

NEWSWEEK

D = 52%, R = 36%

PEW RESEARCH CENTER

D = 48%, R = 40%

Minimum = +8% D, Maximum = +16 D, Average = +12.4% D


You don't find it interesting the polls, all taken within a day or so of each other can have a spread of 8 points and still be considered "accurate?"

I bet the ones that were most heavily "Democratic" in spread were those that opened with presidential approval of Bush first.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #137 of 176
You are so predictable.

1) That is my point about perverted logic. It is now wrong to debate going in. Sick. Sick. Sick.

2) Bull.

From the Mouth itself: (but it is probably banned, too)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030319-17.html

"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities."

Repeat for those who cannot read too well:

"that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder" = WMD

notice he said nothing in that clip about the people of Iraq; totally self-focused behavior.

3) NOW is not really a possible thing... it takes a little time, but it can proceed rather quickly if they try. It would not be overnight, SDW, so stop trying to make it sound so scary. The US should get out quickly; the current upswing in bombings is related to the US election, according to Snow Boy (the press sec on CNN yesterday). If so, and we leave,.... ahhhh... there's a thought.

4) I can't. We shouldn't. Otherwise we get into messes like this.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #138 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

jimmac, you may be right. But how can you just flatly IGNORE this Pew Poll? How can you just utterly IGNORE that huge swing in the numbers? Did you even read the PDF?

Yes but there is the sheer number of other polls that say otherwise.
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post #139 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

You don't find it interesting the polls, all taken within a day or so of each other can have a spread of 8 points and still be considered "accurate?"

I bet the ones that were most heavily "Democratic" in spread were those that opened with presidential approval of Bush first.

Nick


Just back and watch.
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post #140 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

1. You can debate whether or not we should have been there. It's kind of pointless now though.

2. There is no evidence anyone lied about WMD or manipulated intel. An investigation found as much.

3. Dems want to leave NOW. That would not be good because it would leave the Iraqis unprepared for our departure.

4. Oh stop.





I'll just go after number one.

It's not pointless since we're still there SDW!
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post #141 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

yes, I know its harsh for the world, but we'd be better off if this era went down as being the result of 1 party and 1 state of mind.

Sorry to bring the Nazi's up again, but imagine if Hitlers military defeat had been swift shortly after he had started the war.

For all the evil he did and caused - the fact that it ran to its conclusion of being utterly destroyed has been better in the long run than if he had been swiftly defeated.

It was only when the Germans saw and knew the full horror of what they had supported and what had been done in their name, that there was a radical change of psyche amongst the german people.

If Hitler's war had been over in a week, they would not have learned the lesson - and you could be sure that they would have regrouped, reformed, learned from their tactical mistakes and come back twice as hard a decade later. And we might have been fighting a war until 1980, which caused a magnitude more damage and death than WW2.

The same of the Republicans. They are not destroyed yet. If we beat them now, the GOP will not have learned the lessons. They will be down, but there will be no change of psyche amongst the supporters. At the moment its all still someone elses fault but their own. They will regroup, reform and they will come back at us with the knowledge of why they had a setback - and it wont happen again, and it will be a magnitude more damaging next time around than it is now. They really need to see, whatever the horrors of 'more of the same', that this is their fault - of their own making.

If however they are allowed to win this vote - and if they follow through with 4 or 8 more years of rule as they are doing, you can be sure that they will become so extreme and Iraq will be such a failure that people are going to change. There will be people on the streets begging for them to go. And it will be a lesson that isn't going to be forgotten for many generations to come.

If however the Dems win tomorrow, come the next election - the reason why were failing in Iraq is going to be because the GOPs hands were tried and crippled because of their lack of power. We know this fuckup is solely to blame on 1 administration, but come the election, spin and FUD will be set in full motion and the ignoramus 'wont be so sure'

A wise person once said "IF you strike me down now, I will come back more powerful than you can imagine". Its true, if you strike someone down they come back - if you allow them to destroy themselves, they're permanently out.

I'm sorry but that seems like a weak argument to me. Too weak to justify leaving these guys in power. Besides I think they'll know who to blame.
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post #142 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

You don't find it interesting the polls, all taken within a day or so of each other can have a spread of 8 points and still be considered "accurate?"

I bet the ones that were most heavily "Democratic" in spread were those that opened with presidential approval of Bush first.

Nick



Actually NO! Because I don't think pre-election polls are all that "accurate" to begin with, irregardless of stated margin of error (that's just another statistic in and of itself). They might have some validity if they were actual votes! But they are not. Leading questions? The first two links would seem to suggest so.

Look, if you were to look at those that actually voted that were independents, undecideds, and party flip-floppers (those with a marginal opinion or with a "weak" party affiliation), those voters might make up 20-40% of the total votes cast. Those that say they will vote, but don't? They make their decision to vote and whom to vote for on the latest sound bite, the latest talking point.

But FIVE polls, just before the election, with an 8-16% point spread, ALL spreads FOR the Democrats? That's a bit unusual, but do I think that we'll see an 8-16% spread in actual voting in favor of the Democrats, on a national level? No effin way!

But do I see a possible 4-8% point spread for the Democrats on a national level? Yes I do! Is that enough to regain control of the House? I don't have an effin clue!

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post #143 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bergermeister

You are so predictable.

1) That is my point about perverted logic. It is now wrong to debate going in. Sick. Sick. Sick.

2) Bull.

From the Mouth itself: (but it is probably banned, too)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/relea...030319-17.html

"Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities."

Repeat for those who cannot read too well:

"that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder" = WMD

notice he said nothing in that clip about the people of Iraq; totally self-focused behavior.

3) NOW is not really a possible thing... it takes a little time, but it can proceed rather quickly if they try. It would not be overnight, SDW, so stop trying to make it sound so scary. The US should get out quickly; the current upswing in bombings is related to the US election, according to Snow Boy (the press sec on CNN yesterday). If so, and we leave,.... ahhhh... there's a thought.

4) I can't. We shouldn't. Otherwise we get into messes like this.


I'm most interested in your point above, entitled "Bull." Perhaps you'd like counter my statement with a fact or two. There is no evidence that Bush lied about WMD.
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post #144 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

Yes but there is the sheer number of other polls that say otherwise.

Uh, you're wrong about that too. The only one that hasn't moved as much is the Fox News poll, ironically enough. The rest of them conducted over this past weekend confirm the Pew results. You frankly have no clue WTF you are talking about.
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post #145 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac




I'll just go after number one.

It's not pointless since we're still there SDW!

So you're saying that affects our strategy now...or that it should? I don't see how that should play into the current debate at all. The decisions have to be made on what is best for security...both in this country and in Iraq. Going back and saying "we shouldn't have been there" is utterly pointless. It doesn't affect the situation now whatsoever. We went. We're there. That's all.
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post #146 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Uh, you're wrong about that too. The only one that hasn't moved as much is the Fox News poll, ironically enough. The rest of them conducted over this past weekend confirm the Pew results. You frankly have no clue WTF you are talking about.



Links? Really, I'm interested in other viewpoints.

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post #147 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

So you're saying that affects our strategy now...or that it should? I don't see how that should play into the current debate at all. The decisions have to be made on what is best for security...both in this country and in Iraq. Going back and saying "we shouldn't have been there" is utterly pointless. It doesn't affect the situation now whatsoever. We went. We're there. That's all.


Yes because as long as we are there in a country where basically they don't want us the fighting will continue. They may fight after we're gone but it won't be because of us.
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post #148 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Uh, you're wrong about that too. The only one that hasn't moved as much is the Fox News poll, ironically enough. The rest of them conducted over this past weekend confirm the Pew results. You frankly have no clue WTF you are talking about.


http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/11/...ess/index.html

Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #149 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch

The "Liberal media" at work.
Fox can't bring themselves to even mention the name Dems.




You did notice that the video shows Our Fearless Leader, no? And the Dow ticker, no? And the scrolling item about "gunmen" and "Arafat," no?

As if to suggest that if you don't vote for Our Fearless Leader's party, the USA is DOOMED! The glorious stock market will crash. Our Fearless Leader getting off a plane, going "down" the off ramp, from a plane that you know, can hit a building, that you know, can crash, with the help of terrorists, you know? You are either against US(A) or for US(A). And if you're against US(A), then you're a terrorist, and that would of course be the "one party with a solid lead," no?

YOU DECIDE!

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #150 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Uh, you're wrong about that too. The only one that hasn't moved as much is the Fox News poll, ironically enough. The rest of them conducted over this past weekend confirm the Pew results. You frankly have no clue WTF you are talking about.

A CNN poll shows the Democrats' lead enlarging. The Pew poll is by far the outlier (click picture for all polls) :

post #151 of 176
Nice link. Every single poll shows the Dems with an advantage... not that I want the Dems to win (I don't like any pooliticians - mistake intentional), but I want the people who helped Bush OUT.

 

Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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Your = the possessive of you, as in, "Your name is Tom, right?" or "What is your name?"

 

You're = a contraction of YOU + ARE as in, "You are right" --> "You're right."

 

 

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post #152 of 176
Democrats will come extremely close to recapturing Congress, but won't quite make it.. about 2 seats difference. Republicans will keep the Senate with a wider, but slightly reduced margin.

Watch this space.

"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #153 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by franksargent



Links? Really, I'm interested in other viewpoints.


I don't have time at the moment. It's the Pew and the Wash Post and ABC polls. Google it and you'll find it.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #154 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

Yes because as long as we are there in a country where basically they don't want us the fighting will continue. They may fight after we're gone but it won't be because of us.

No, that's a different issue (but a valid opinion).
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #155 of 176
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BRussell

A CNN poll shows the Democrats' lead enlarging. The Pew poll is by far the outlier (click picture for all polls) :


That's a weekend poll which are shown to have an even heavier Democratic tilt.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #156 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

That's a weekend poll which are shown to have an even heavier Democratic tilt.

Nick

It's called denial.
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #157 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Completely and utterly disagree. Pulling out now would not be a good idea...for us, or for them.

I agree, especially pulling out for us would be an world economic disaster - if not 50 years of recession and depression as we completely unsettle the whole ME region.

And I agree that pulling out will be an utter disaster for Iraqis as they descend into years of sectarian war until things become so bad and bloody over there that they are shocked into stopping fighting by the atrocities they will commit.

Despite the tortured logic of us going over there and completely screwing it up - the least bad option IMO is to stay as long as it takes - not because i think were doing anything positive or it benefits anyone, but because the 'hope' that things just fall into place outweigh the losses of pulling out multiplied against the threat of things getting worse, and all the events transpiring anyway if we stay there.
post #158 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

I think that's an interesting analysis, your comparison to the Nazis aside (I wish people would stop that...it's absurd to compare Republicans to Nazis).

I will only say one thing regarding the Nazi's and Republicans.

The full horror of what the Nazi's did wasn't really understood until years later when history dissected their actions. Until then, we were just fighting another war - albeit the worst one to date.

Lets hope that the WOT is not just one of these 'wars'
post #159 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

That's a weekend poll which are shown to have an even heavier Democratic tilt.

Nick

Because democrats work for a living?
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #160 of 176
Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcUK

I will only say one thing regarding the Nazi's and Republicans.

The full horror of what the Nazi's did wasn't really understood until years later when history dissected their actions. Until then, we were just fighting another war - albeit the worst one to date.

Lets hope that the WOT is not just one of these 'wars'


Come on. Not even you really believe there is a valid comparison between Republicans and Nazis, right?

Also, this "damage" you speak of...what exactly are you talking about? Foreign views of America and George Bush? What has been "damaged" exactly? Let me guess: "Bush invaded a [buzz word] soveriegn nation[/buzz word] which was clearly a violation of[buzz word] international law[/buzz word]. He listened to the [buzz word]neocons[/buzz word] within his own administration and [buzz word]lied[/buzz word] to the American people. Something like that?
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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