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Is it possible there is more to iTv than meets the eye - Page 2

post #41 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by zanc

An EyeTV dongle, together with some variant of EyeTV software interated within the Front Row UI, attached to the iTV could provide such a solution. You could even use the new EyeTV Diversity DTT receiver to play one TV channel while recording another, with iTV piping the recording back to the server.

Not that I don't understand and couldn't' make use of a device that does what you describe, but you've got to think of the size of the market. Apple's iTV will plug in and simply work, pulling data from any Mac or Windows PC running iTunes. Simple, elegant and very accessible to an existing large user base
post #42 of 63
The best long-term solution is a simple menu item in front row such as "live tv".

Clicking on it would invoke a list of geographically local or subscribed television stations, all of whose material would stream straight from the net. The key to making such a system work would be simplifying it so that no configuration or maintainance is required. I think apple can pull it off and that consumers are ready.

Plug one tiny box into your TV and you're good to go. Play anything from any "station", at any time, right on your television with a simple 6 button remote. No confusing menus or configuration, just a list of stuff you can watch divided into easy to understand categories.
post #43 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by dfiler

Plug one tiny box into your TV and you're good to go. Play anything from any "station", at any time, right on your television with a simple 6 button remote. No confusing menus or configuration, just a list of stuff you can watch divided into easy to understand categories.

The eyeTV hybrid accepts the Apple Remote and it's simply not enough. It will let me pause, unpause, change the volume and change the channel. There is no timeslip control where I can FF or FR using the Apple Remote, even though the software can do it. With so few buttons, they have to drop some functionality to get other functionality or pop into the menu to change things, which should be unnecessary.
post #44 of 63
I like Apple Computer Corporation. I think they have fought the good fight, and there is no question that some of your products are innovative, as well as stylish. But Apple is not making generic boxes that are like everyone elses, and that means greater risk when they introduce a new, unique product. Especially if that product is expensive, redundant and useless like iTV.

Here is a preview showing of the device on Gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple...box-200211.php

"The iTV set was by far the shining star of the show... The little set top box iTV looks like a half height Mac Mini with the sole purpose of streaming media to a livingroom TV. This is what is known to PC-doods as a Media Center Extender.

Again, it streams those new 640 by 480 pixel movies, music, photos, podcasts, TV shows. There's a power supply inside, USB, 802.11 wireless, Ethernet, HDMI, component, stereo audio, and optical audio out to your TV."

Cant the Mac Mini do these things? If this is all the iTV does, why make a half sized Mac Mini, with no computer functionality, for $300? Here are some comments from the Gizmodo site:

For $299 you can buy an Xbox 360 that does streaming from Windows machines. And plays DVD's and state of the art games.

Why not just get a mac mini and hook it up to a tv via a dvi-hdmi cable and to an audio receiver for sound? Then you can have wireless streaming of content and the full capabilities of a computer at your hands.

Basically, the reviews boiled down to asking what the hell the iTV appliance was for. I think that is a good question. The posts on this thread seem like a bunch of people trying to figure out how to make this thing useful.

...
post #45 of 63
So you don't see the future in networked media players? In another year or two I bet you'll understand. They're the future of all media playback.
post #46 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

Cant the Mac Mini do these things? If this is all the iTV does, why make a half sized Mac Mini, with no computer functionality, for $300? Here are some comments from the Gizmodo site:

For $299 you can buy an Xbox 360 that does streaming from Windows machines. And plays DVD's and state of the art games.

Why not just get a mac mini and hook it up to a tv via a dvi-hdmi cable and to an audio receiver for sound? Then you can have wireless streaming of content and the full capabilities of a computer at your hands.

xbox 360 = $404 once you add the wireless accessory ($504 if you want a hard drive, which I imagine would be important in this application), and the mac mini is also more expensive. Not only that, but it would be a pain to transfer videos onto the mini.

The whole appeal of the iTV box is that you don't have to fool with transferring files or touching the various computers in your house - you just pick up the remote and select a movie. Maybe the xbox360 can do that as well, but at a higher price and only for "media center" PCs (which I have never seen one of).

I have an xbox360, but I would still go out and buy an iTV box before buying a media center pc.
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post #47 of 63
I personally suspect that there is a lot more to Apple's iTV than just being a Media PC Extender for Macintosh.
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post #48 of 63
Ok, I see your point that a "media extender", or an applaince that allows you to access your media with a remote is a great idea. But instead of reducing the stack of electronic devices and jumble of wires next to people's TV/monitors, the iTV only adds to it. Why not build this capability into the Mac Mini, since the Mini already has a remote?

If Apple did whatever was necessary to port some top teir games to the Mac, and added a game controller, they could sell a "headless Mac". This machine would do everything the Mini, iTV, and Xbox 360 did. In addition, this new machine would be a Mac, a full fledged computer.

Instead we are expected to buy a Mini, (or a more powerful Mac), an iTV, and a game console, and stack them next to our TV or monitor, with all their wires and connections.

This makes no sense.

...
post #49 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

Instead we are expected to buy a Mini, (or a more powerful Mac), an iTV, and a game console, and stack them next to our TV or monitor, with all their wires and connections.

This makes no sense.

I don't know if you are making sense. If you already have a mini as an HTPC, then why have an iTV? As yet, I don't think it makes any sense to chase the console game market.
post #50 of 63
I might be in a minority as really liking the network computer idea. Pluses as I see them...

Concentrate your money on one kick ass tower.
Less administration hassle.

I think it would be almost malicious if Apple doesn't provide at least the ability for a third party to extend an iTV into an NC.

I'm too lazy to run the numbers but I think I'd prefer a MacPro + 2 iTVs, 3 displays, and a lot of ram than 3 iMacs.

--
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--
"Evolution is not random. Mutation is random, but natural selection is entirely non-random. Evolution doesn't predict that all the complexity of life just came together randomly. "

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post #51 of 63
I think there's more to iTV.

Something unusual is afoot.

Lemon Bon Bon

Big picture. We may not see it yet.

You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

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You know, for a company that specializes in the video-graphics market, you'd think that they would offer top-of-the-line GPUs...

 

WITH THE NEW MAC PRO THEY FINALLY DID!  (But you bend over for it.)

Reply
post #52 of 63
JeffDM;

Ok, if the Mini can do everything the iTV can do, as well as function as a computer, why buy an iTV? For twice the money you get the ability to surf the net and use a suite of programs. The Xbox 360 can do everything the iTV can do, plus play kickass games at the same price.

So where does iTV fit as an appliance?

...
post #53 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

JeffDM;

Ok, if the Mini can do everything the iTV can do, as well as function as a computer, why buy an iTV? For twice the money you get the ability to surf the net and use a suite of programs. The Xbox 360 can do everything the iTV can do, plus play kickass games at the same price.

So where does iTV fit as an appliance?

I really don't know.

I looks like you may be assuming that a Mac is necessary for the iTV to work, I don't think that is the case.
post #54 of 63
I dont think a Mac is necessary for iTV to work. I am not clear that a Mini can do everything an iTV can do. But it doesnt matter for iTV. If an iTV costs $300, and its just a "media extender" with no computer functionality, the Xbox 360 is going to kill it.

...
post #55 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

I am not clear that a Mini can do everything an iTV can do.

Maybe I missed something, what can iTV do that a mini can't?
post #56 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Maybe I missed something, what can iTV do that a mini can't?

Output content over an HDCP-protected HDMI link? In other words, the device would have the hardware that content owners will require to authorize the device to store and stream HD content. No way is a content owner going to allow HD movies from a download service such as Apple's to be streamed over unprotected HDMI.

Just a thought.
post #57 of 63
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Þ & þ are called "Thorn" & þey represent þe sound you've associated "th" wiþ since þe 13þ or 14þ century. I'm bringing it back.
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post #58 of 63
Thread Starter 
Great to see this thread is still going. I went away for a few weeks and now I am pumped to get back into it.

So it sounds like we have all been touching on the original question in one way or another, but I think the recent point concerning the mac mini alludes to what we started out discussing. Namely, I am just somewhat taken aback by a system costing $200 to stream and control front row. I still cannot tell you how nice it would be to be able to run my whole powerbook or a mac pro with wireless keyboard and mouse. It really seems like there has to be more to this, for as several of you noted there are other products out there that currently served the purpose for which iTV has been so far displayed. Keep up the chat, you all rock!8)
post #59 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

JeffDM;

Ok, if the Mini can do everything the iTV can do, as well as function as a computer, why buy an iTV? For twice the money you get the ability to surf the net and use a suite of programs. The Xbox 360 can do everything the iTV can do, plus play kickass games at the same price.

So where does iTV fit as an appliance?

...

I see you are getting your post count up!

For the 12 year old - 27 year old crowd, despite the $100 minimum higher price for the XBox 360, probably when given the choice between the two, the XBox would get the majority. But to me, this is really not the interesting part of the Microsoft announcement.

(As I've stated elsewhere -) What is the MS and Sony business model that would allow them to make money by selling movies via their game consoles? Their game console business model is try to break even on the hardware, and make money on the licensing and games. Sony is good at that (but we'll see about the PS3), and MS seems to be getting better at it.

The Music/Movie business model is the opposite - break even on the downloads giving the profits to the content producers, and make money on the hardware. Apple is doing great at this with the iPod and iTunes Store.

So what is the MS model for downloading Movies and Music to the XBox 360? MS is breaking even (at best) on the game console, and the content providers make the money on the content. So if MS sells XBox 360s for just music & movies, it seems like this will just lose more money for MS. (BTW - this applies to the Zune also.) Can MS sell games to these people? If they are 12-27 years old.

My guess is that Apple will make their usual margin on the iTV, so it fits in neatly with the business model.

My prediction: MS shareholders will get fed up with these business models that just lose money. MS will end up spinning off the Application software (Office, etc.), the OS software, and their Gaming groups into separate companies, and stop this nonsense of their cash cows subsidizing their next bad idea.
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post #60 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

I've an iMac, and am just thinking will there be a way to stream from your iMac with the screen turned off, will a new screen off feature be activated (if you want) when your streaming using iTV? Afterall the screen doesn't need to be on, as it's not being used. It would be a waste of energy.

I made these very points some time ago... and was unceremoniously browbeaten by the Apple illuminati who have fallen under the sway of the RDF.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #61 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Populist

I like Apple Computer Corporation. I think they have fought the good fight, and there is no question that some of your products are innovative, as well as stylish. But Apple is not making generic boxes that are like everyone elses, and that means greater risk when they introduce a new, unique product. Especially if that product is expensive, redundant and useless like iTV.

Here is a preview showing of the device on Gizmodo

http://www.gizmodo.com/gadgets/apple...box-200211.php

"The iTV set was by far the shining star of the show... The little set top box iTV looks like a half height Mac Mini with the sole purpose of streaming media to a livingroom TV. This is what is known to PC-doods as a Media Center Extender.

Again, it streams those new 640 by 480 pixel movies, music, photos, podcasts, TV shows. There's a power supply inside, USB, 802.11 wireless, Ethernet, HDMI, component, stereo audio, and optical audio out to your TV."

Cant the Mac Mini do these things? If this is all the iTV does, why make a half sized Mac Mini, with no computer functionality, for $300? Here are some comments from the Gizmodo site:

For $299 you can buy an Xbox 360 that does streaming from Windows machines. And plays DVD's and state of the art games.

Why not just get a mac mini and hook it up to a tv via a dvi-hdmi cable and to an audio receiver for sound? Then you can have wireless streaming of content and the full capabilities of a computer at your hands.

Basically, the reviews boiled down to asking what the hell the iTV appliance was for. I think that is a good question. The posts on this thread seem like a bunch of people trying to figure out how to make this thing useful.

...

Thank you. More plain spoken logic. With any luck, they'll kill iTV in favor of something that makes sense before next year.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #62 of 63
Quote:
Originally Posted by Osakans

Output content over an HDCP-protected HDMI link? In other words, the device would have the hardware that content owners will require to authorize the device to store and stream HD content. No way is a content owner going to allow HD movies from a download service such as Apple's to be streamed over unprotected HDMI.


You do have a point but once the Mac mini is updated with Santa Rosa chipset, I think it too will have HDMI.

Right now, HDMI supposedly isn't going to be required for HD video formats for a few years.
post #63 of 63
Have you guys actually used an XBox360? Its a big, very loud, brutish machine. I don't want one near my entertainment systems, nevermind turned on an making that infernal racket that it does while I'm trying to enjoy something other than a video game. Or even while I'm trying to play a game, for that matter.
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