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Apple suspected of forcing Greenpeace out of MacExpo [updated]

post #1 of 93
Thread Starter 
Environmental advocacy group Greenpeace was forced to shut down it booth at the MacExpo in London on Thursday after show organizers claimed to have received complaints from "unnamed sources," according to a report at MacNN.com.

Greenpeace is reported to have set up a stall in an effort to raise awareness about the use of toxic chemicals in products manufactured by Apple Computer.

According to the report, volunteers manning the stall "were signing up Mac fans to challenge Apple to 'go green.'" Flyers explaining the group's Green my Apple campaign were handed out to members of the public along with organic green apples.

"This reaction is totally over-the-top," Iza Kruszewska, Greenpeace International campaigner at the expo, is reported as saying. "Apple refuses to address our criticisms on their products, both for the recycling and for the use of harmful chemicals."

"Instead of hiding their head in the sand, Apple should be a world leader in the greening of the electronics industry, not lagging behind," Kruszewska added.

In August, Greenpeace issued a report which gave Apple a 2.7 out of 10 environmental-friendly rating. It awarded the Cupertino, Calif.-based iPod maker with low scores in almost all criteria, including the use of toxic chemicals, recycling, and the quality of its take-back programs.

Apple booth at MacExpo as seen in a first MacNN photo gallery.

"For a company that claims to lead on product design, Apple scores badly on almost all criteria," the group wrote in the report. "The company fails to embrace the precautionary principle, withholds its full list of regulated substances and provides no timelines for eliminating toxic [chemicals]."

Greenpeace volunteers have vowed to return to the London MacExpo on Friday to continue their campaign, MacNN said in its report. The group has also issued a challenge to Apple to have a product range on the market by 2007 which is free of the what it believes are the most toxic of chemicals.

Google's booth at MacExpo as seen in a second MacNN photo gallery.

"It's time for Apple to use clean components in all of its products and to provide a free take-back program to reuse and recycle its products wherever they are sold," said Kruszewska. "We are challenging the world leader in design to also be a world leader in environmental innovation."

Update: Macworld UK offers the other side of the story. The Greenpeace folk were reportedly a bit out of control and disruptive to both attendees and other exhibitors at the expo.
post #2 of 93
Greenpeace is just another "astroturf" political group sponsored by Microsoft and Dell whose only real purpose is make Apple look bad.

All that Save the Whales crap is just a smokescreen to confuse the public.
post #3 of 93
I agree with Apple, GreenPeace should have been dumped. Not for giving Apple a bad rating but for being anti-business. Greenpeace founding member Patrick Moore left greenpeace because the group was more interested in shutting down business than having anything do with the environment. Why give floor space to someone who wants to put you out of business? I mean when a founding member thinks that they have gone off the deep end, no pun intended, you have to wonder.

Don’t get me wrong, I am all for saving the environment, so is Patrick Moore but that is no longer a priority with greenpeace.
post #4 of 93
I dunno if they are "astroturfing" but Apple does MUCH better than Dell or HP that Greenpeace touts as environmentally friendly.

Personally, I never cared much for Greenpeace. Too much politics over science and I'm green friendly....not green stupid. Which too many of those folks are.

Vinea
post #5 of 93
Greenpeace = hate group
post #6 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"Instead of hiding their head in the sand, Apple should be a world leader in the greening of the electronics industry, not lagging behind," Kruszewska added.


ok...hiding one's head in the sand is QUITE different than lagging behind. Who said Apple is ashamed?
post #7 of 93
the lower the rating by greenpeace the higher i think of apple (to a point) I dont want to spend extra money on a computer to have it meet all these fanatics standards. I think apples standards are perfect
post #8 of 93
I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important
post #9 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme

I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

go hug a tree
who cares what they think
post #10 of 93
Are there still hazardous substances in the computers even after they were qualified for the RoHS initiative?
post #11 of 93
I'm sure that apple is in compliance with any regulations set by the EPA, if greenpeace has a problem they should take it to the EPA, not Apple. That's dumb.
post #12 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme

I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

Thanks, Nagromme, you took the words right out of my mouth. I couldn't agree more.
post #13 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by iammatt1936

go hug a tree
who cares what they think

Wow! What insightful and constructive comments!
post #14 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme

I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

Greenpeace has lost all credibility over the shonky methodology used in their report and their persistent chanting of half truths and out right lies about Apple. For a thoughtful analysis of Greenpeace vs Apple check out this article and the ones that came before it http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Hom...AAB628676.html
The ends don't just the means.
post #15 of 93
Wow, most of this board is made up of 99% jerks. What gives?

I don't know a thing about Greenpeace really, and maybe they are at fault. I really like Apple products, but maybe they are at fault too.

It appears as though not a single one of you was at the actual show to know what happened,
but you sure are ready to fight. Fight for what? What the hell are you all so mad about? Mad that somone actually gives a damn about something other than themselves?

Apple may have it's head in the 'sand', but after reading the responses on this board, most of these people have there head up their 'you know where...'

What I do give a damn about is the future of the freaking planet. We should all give a damn about the freaking planet.

I'm not a tree hugger. I'm just a regular Joe. I like Apple and brag about them to everybody, all of them time. I would like them even more, and brag even more, if they were Green friendly, and showed up the other corporations.

I do believe that most corporations on the planet are only interested in making money, and making money is good. Good for our country, etc. But there are ways to make money and not KILL the freaking planet at the same time. Let's all hope that Greenpeace, Apple, and all the other companies out there, all do at least a little to NOT destroy the planet any faster than it needs to be.
post #16 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme

I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

No, but they do stuff for political and economic gain that has little to do with advancing the environment. This whole Apple thing is a stunt.

Quote:
* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

Except that what Greenpeace is pinging Apple on is false. Their own study shows that the levels of TBBPA flame retardant to be 1/4 of the amount of RESTRICTED retardants under RoHS. TBBPA isn't a restricted toxic chemical at all. And they found NO laptops with hexavalent chromium.

Not to mention that TBBPA in hard plastics show very small emissions (ie gas releases) and even if they did the EU Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks (SCHER) reports it:

"agrees with the conclusion that there are no concerns for the carcinogenicity of tetrabromobisphenol A and supports conclusions ii) for all exposure scenarios since the Margin of Safety (MOS) are very large. Due to low systemic biovailability and efficient conjugation of the phenolic groups in tetrabromobisphenol A (TBBPA), bioaccumulation of this compound is not considered to be of concern."

(copied from http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Hom...665EE235C.html)

But to read their press releases and campaign these things are more toxic than Chernobyl.

Quote:
* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

So? This doesn't make Greenpeace's actions any more ethical than those of papparazi.

Quote:
* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

I note no deploring in your post.

Quote:
* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

The end doesn't justify the means.

Vinea
post #17 of 93
I'm not going to presume to judge Greenpeace's intentions or motivations, I'm not informed enough on the issues. I just think that their attacks on Apple are unfounded. I work for a chemical company and they go through very strict processes to stay in compliance with federal regulations, they'll be shut down if they don't. But if a radical group comes to them demanding more, it simply wouldn't make logical business sense for them to change there current practices because a radical group said they should. Greenpeace should take there complaints to the people who have the power to do something about it. The government, sure, going through them is a royal pain I'm sure, but realistically it's the only way they're going to get anyting done IMO. \
post #18 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

No, but they do stuff for political and economic gain that has little to do with advancing the environment. This whole Apple thing is a stunt.

Except that what Greenpeace is pinging Apple on is false. Their own study shows that the levels of TBBPA flame retardant to be 1/4 of the amount of RESTRICTED retardants under RoHS. TBBPA isn't a restricted toxic chemical at all. And they found NO laptops with hexavalent chromium.

Not to mention that TBBPA in hard plastics show very small emissions (ie gas releases) and even if they did the EU Scientific Committee on Health and Environmental Risks (SCHER) reports it:

"agrees with the conclusion that there are no concerns for the carcinogenicity of tetrabromobisphenol A and supports conclusions ii) for all exposure scenarios since the Margin of Safety (MOS) are very large. Due to low systemic biovailability and efficient conjugation of the phenolic groups in tetrabromobisphenol A (TBBPA), bioaccumulation of this compound is not considered to be of concern."

(copied from http://www.roughlydrafted.com/RD/Hom...665EE235C.html)



Vinea

I don't understand a word you just said

post #19 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankie

Wow, most of this board is made up of 99% jerks. What gives?

Perhaps we don't like lying marketeers?

Quote:
It appears as though not a single one of you was at the actual show to know what happened, but you sure are ready to fight. Fight for what? What the hell are you all so mad about? Mad that somone actually gives a damn about something other than themselves?

Perhaps we're mad about the FUD? Greenpeace seems to care most about money and influence with the environment coming a very distant 3rd. Ethical reporting of scientific findings does not appear to be on the list at all.

Quote:
Apple may have it's head in the 'sand', but after reading the responses on this board, most of these people have there head up their 'you know where...'

Yes, that would be you since you say you don't know anything about Greenpeace but yet are willing to defend them...

Vinea
post #20 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay

I don't understand a word you just said


I said Greenpeace is lying about the importance of the chemicals they claim are toxic.

Vinea
post #21 of 93
Quote:
I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

I think your points are very well made. The truth is somewhere in the middle. Of course, as usual, a lot of people here refuse to believe that Apple is ever wrong about anything. If this article was about Dell, everyone here would side with Greenpeace. I side with niether on this issue. They're both right; They're both wrong. I would have kicked them out too (or never allowed them in the first place).

Quote:
go hug a tree
who cares what they think

You are the master of debate.
post #22 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

I said Greenpeace is lying about the importance of the chemicals they claim are toxic.

Vinea

*shows props*
post #23 of 93
Greenpeace are a bunch of assholes.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #24 of 93
Nelson, pointing at the Greenpeace ejecta, says: "HA-ha!"
post #25 of 93
#1 it's greenpeace. everyone hates them.

#2 I'm sure the toxic chemicals inside computers are a. not that bad and b. in much smaller quantities than the toxins that are released by cars, heavy machinery, nuclear power plants, i.e. EVERYTHING ELSE.

Pretty soon greenpeace is going to protest people pissing on trees.
post #26 of 93
Wait a minute here!

Is Greenpeace talking about the same Apple Computer that just sent me an email this past week with a no-cost-to-me FedEx label inviting me to send them any old computers I might have lying around? The same Apple that said they would recycle these components in an environmentally friendly manner for free? I don't even have to contact them, just box up my stuff, show this label to my local FedEx office, and they'll take care of the rest?

Oh yeah, that's sound horrible. Apple is obviously a hateful, unfriendly, profit-gouging company that doesn't care one bit about anybody but themselves, no matter the damage it does to the environment.

The best part? They sent this email without my even having to request it! Talk about thoughtful and proactive...

You kow what I really think? No one "forced" Greenpeace out of the Expo, they just decided to grandstand and claim they were booted out to make the press pay more attention (which it obviously got suckered into doing) and then seeming like the underdog, valiantly claim they will face the dragon once more tomorrow, also knowing it would bring more people to the booth when they did.

Poor Apple is getting sucker-punched and put into a damned-if-you-do-and-damned-if-you-don't situation which makes them seem petty at worst and irresponsible at best.

Greenpeace is not very peaceful at all, are they?
post #27 of 93
APPLEINSIDER SUSPECTED OF NOT BACKING UP THEIR HEADLINES

There is not one item that I can find in either this report, or the Macnn report which backs up the headline blaming Apple for the problem. For the most part I've given up reading Macnn because of the sensationalism of their head lines. I had thought that Appleinsider was doing well to avoid this approach, but....

And, as been pointed out, this entire focus on Apple is primarily to gain donations for Greenpeace, not to address a major environmental issue.
post #28 of 93
What a bunch of BS.

It's easy to yell foul when you lay yourself down on the railroad tracks and no one is there to see you!!!

KMA Greenpeace

http://www.apple.com/education/shop/recycle
http://www.apple.com/environment/
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #29 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by BuzDots

What a bunch of BS.

It's easy to yell foul when you lay yourself down on the railroad tracks and no one is there to see you!!!

KMA Greenpeace

You mean like claiming a ship rammed you but the damage is on their side and on your bow?

Vinea
post #30 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

You mean like claiming a ship rammed you but the damage is on their side and on your bow?

Vinea

Exactly
OMG here we go again...
Reply
OMG here we go again...
Reply
post #31 of 93
Greenpeace is nothing but a bunch of far left socialist pigs who hate business in general.

In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.

"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.

It's good that Apple stood up to these nuts!
post #32 of 93
Well, I was at the MacExpo in London today, and I noticed Greenpeace both giving out leaflets (and apples!) at the entrance, as well as their stand. I went there later in the day to find out more information but their stand was empty. That seems to suggest something happened - you're not going to leave your stand you paid money for, for nothing. Whether or not it was Apple, I don't know.

In response to a lot of the thoughtless, negative comments on this forum about what Greenpeace are doing, I happen to think that is a very informative, well run campaign. Looking at their website (www.greenpeace.org/apple) and the way they were conducting themselves at the Expo, they DO NOT come across as anti-Apple. In fact, as someone who owns Apple products I find they make good and challenging points, but in a way which says, 'as people who think Apple make great products, let's encourage them to do better environmentally as well', rather than 'we hate Apple' which is what some people seem to be suggesting they are saying.

Anyway, I encourage you to look at their website and think seriously about what they are saying instead of spouting out derogatory comments without thinking.
post #33 of 93
"Apple has been named a “Forward Green Leader,” one of the top ten environmentally progressive companies recognized by the Sierra Club and its investment advisor, Forward Management."

http://www.apple.com/environment/
post #34 of 93
I think Apple should do this. No better yet, they should be the leading eco-terrorist group. Killing lumberjacks and blowing up their batteries in the faces of all those people in charge of land development for wal mart. C'mon Apple! Turn that iSight into an iLaser that makes people burn really slowly!

Eco-terrorism aside keep your greenpeace out of my white, silver, or black piece.



oh and use solar power dammit
post #35 of 93
I remember reading somewhere a while back that it takes roughly the same amount of energy to produce a laptop as it does a small car. Crazy eh.
Not hard to belive when you consider all the different components that go into a laptop, all the shipping from around the world and so on.
Yet, computer companies don't have the same restrictions that automobile manufactures have when it comes to manufacturing and recycling.
So I do agree that we should step up pressure on computer manufacturers.

Oh, and to all you ass-clowns who are against environmental groups, get your head out of your ass, or the only tree you or your kids will be able to hug is with a gnome in Azeroth playing WoW.
I thought people here were smart enough to see the 'message' through the sometimes absurd actions and political games of these said organizations.
When dealing with an irrational world, somtimes one has to act irrational.

Myself, i'd like to see Apple make sure the companies building their components aren't dumping toxic chemicals into rivers and oceans.
Thats the message.
post #36 of 93
I'm all for saving the environment, but I wouldn't spend more than a minute listening to Greenpeace. (When they come to my door, that's the amount of time I give them to tell me about their latest hot thing, before I send them away.)

I have too often come across mistruths and distortions by Greenpeace in order to advance some other agenda that they have. For them, it's usually about self-promotion, hype, and gathering donations than about thinking seriously and strategically about how to really improve the environment in a wholistic manner. They focus on minute things while ignoring the stuff that really harms the environment because it just happens to be politically hot or the company is in the news. They don't think through side effects and system effects.

Other environmental organizations are more balanced and thoughtful. Even the Sierra Club is better.
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
"you will know the truth, and the truth will
set you free."
Reply
post #37 of 93
For the record I was being sarcastic in case anyone didnt get it. Apple should and has generally kept itself in check with the environmental concerns. I mean I'd love to see a solar powered computer that wasn't hideous in some way but thats not realistic. Maybe with all the money they've been making lately they can put that to more environmental research for at least their laptops.
post #38 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mkane

Greenpeace is nothing but a bunch of far left socialist pigs who hate business in general.

In the US groups like Greenpeace abuse our freedoms in order to destroy our country and business in general.

"Yes save the whale, owl, and polar bear", screams Greenpeace but they are strangely silent when one asks them to stand against abortion and save a human life! Like all liberals thier doctrines are full of double standards.

It's good that Apple stood up to these nuts!

That sort of one sided thinking is a dangerous way to think. I'd suggest for the hope of human society to stop and think for a moment that you might not be the one whos correct on everything your passionate about.
post #39 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by vinea

I dunno if they are "astroturfing" but Apple does MUCH better than Dell or HP that Greenpeace touts as environmentally friendly.

Could you please give specific examples?

I agree that Greenpeace put way too much emphasis on removal of "toxic" chemicals from computers. Have they done any analysis whatsoever to find out what this does to the total amount of energy required to manufacture the computer, and then how long the computer will last?

However, Apple could do a much better job of recycling. In the U.S., it seems that they are doing a brilliant job. Not so much elsewhere in the world

And finally, I would agree with the few who have mentioned that Greenpeace are targeting the wrong people. It's governments you have to lobby.
it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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it's = it is / it has, its = belonging to it.
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post #40 of 93
Quote:
Originally Posted by nagromme

I'm not sure either party is going about things 100% the right way towards each other, but I AM SURE of the following:

* Greenpeace is out to do good here--actual good intentions that benefit all of us. (They are not paid by MS )

* Apple should improve their environmental practices (and be applauded for what they've already done right)

* They are not alone, other companies should to0

* Apple is high-profile now, and part of the price of that is that you WILL be used as an example, by every journalist, blogger, or activist who wants attention. Because attention is what all of the above need (I am not judging this) and targeting Apple works.

* Greenpeace paid for their booth! And apparently were told to go without specific complaints to respond to?

* Greenpeace sometimes distorts/cherrypicks facts, just like every other cause out there, and I deplore this when it happens

* Even if Greenpeace is a criminal joint venture of the Mafia, Microsft, and Oscar the Grouch, blame Greenpeace but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater: the surrounding cause is a GOOD one and the issues are still important

A well balanced post - I heartily agree, Greenpeace is only trying to get publicity and improve Apple's environmental record. Apple, along with other companies, needs to be more environmentally friendly. Maybe I'll go to the Expo tomorrow as I have free tickets and see if Greenpeace have camped outside!
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