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A closer look at Apple's Core 2 Duo MacBook Pro - Page 2

post #41 of 87
11/1/06 at 11:53am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I really don't think that is ever going to happen. Firewire 400 has established connectors, I don't think it makes sense to change it. The reason Firewire 800 has a different connection is because it's a lot like two firewire channels doubled-up, they doubled the number of signal pins to double the speed rather than double the speed of the existing pins.

Also, while USB 1 cables will fit USB 2 jacks, they don't work properly.
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post #42 of 87
11/1/06 at 11:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by drblank

Oops. FIrewire 400 to Firewire 800, I mean.

It's too confusing. People will think that as their device connects to 800, that is what they will get, even if their device is a 400 one.
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post #43 of 87
11/1/06 at 12:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Also, while USB 1 cables will fit USB 2 jacks, they don't work properly.

I don't remember this being a problem. The device might work very slowly being the old standard, but I don't remember any USB 1 device not working on USB 2.
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post #44 of 87
11/1/06 at 12:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

It's too confusing. People will think that as their device connects to 800, that is what they will get, even if their device is a 400 one.

Those people probably wouldn't notice either.
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post #45 of 87
11/1/06 at 12:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I don't remember this being a problem. The device might work very slowly being the old standard, but I don't remember any USB 1 device not working on USB 2.

That's not what he said. He said (not entirely clearly) USB 1 cables don't always work in a USB 2 situation. The manufacturers aren't necessarily to blame - a cable built to handle 24MHz signals don't necessarily need to be built to handle an unforeseen 960MHz signal that might be put on it one day. (n.b. I didn't actually look up the signal rates).

A Firewire cable might the same - the implication is that changing connectors prevents this from happening in the first place.
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post #46 of 87
11/1/06 at 1:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Similarly, internal revisions prevent the keyboard from the new 15-inch model from being used for repairs to the previous model because the caps lock key will fail to function properly.

What changed with the keyboard???
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post #47 of 87
11/1/06 at 2:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I don't remember this being a problem. The device might work very slowly being the old standard, but I don't remember any USB 1 device not working on USB 2.

When I said properly, that's what I meant. It will run much slower, because it has to resend packets. I'm talking about connecting two USB 2 devices with a USB 1 cable.
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post #48 of 87
11/1/06 at 2:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbingTheLog

Those people probably wouldn't notice either.

Very likely.
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post #49 of 87
11/1/06 at 2:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClimbingTheLog

That's not what he said. He said (not entirely clearly) USB 1 cables don't always work in a USB 2 situation. The manufacturers aren't necessarily to blame - a cable built to handle 24MHz signals don't necessarily need to be built to handle an unforeseen 960MHz signal that might be put on it one day. (n.b. I didn't actually look up the signal rates).

A Firewire cable might the same - the implication is that changing connectors prevents this from happening in the first place.

Correct. I thought it was implied from what I had said.
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post #50 of 87
11/1/06 at 3:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marvin

It sounds like a way for Apple to make more money to me. I think it's ridiculous if changing your hard drive voids your warranty. I'd rather have a noisy hard drive than that. It would actually encourage me to buy the Core Duo or Macbook over the new MBP. Were the drives that noisy in the first place?

Little disk or no little disk unfortunately changing the hard drive yourself has always been a warranty voider.
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post #51 of 87
11/1/06 at 3:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecking

Little disk or no little disk unfortunately changing the hard drive yourself has always been a warranty voider.

Just the act of swapping the drives doesn't void the warranty. However, they won't cover any damage you do if you screw up, and they won't cover what you put in. It's pretty clear in the warranty terms. Anything else is FUD.
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post #52 of 87
11/1/06 at 6:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Just the act of swapping the drives doesn't void the warranty. However, they won't cover any damage you do if you screw up, and they won't cover what you put in. It's pretty clear in the warranty terms. Anything else is FUD.

Some Apple service people may deny your warranty if they realised you swapped your hard disk yourself. I don't think that's FUD. An Apple reseller in Malaysia denied swapping our logic board claiming lightning burnt out the modem although clearly the iBook G4 was not used during rainy thunderstorms (of which there are a lot around the equator)...

Australia, Singapore, USA, UK, you could get situations where they might make some claim that you "screwed up" somehow even if it's a minor thing like tape or foil in a slightly wrong place..... More of a consumer rights situation.

Interestingly, the iBook G4 models have very quiet hard disks compared to PC notebooks - the small rubber dampeners that frame it work great.
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post #53 of 87
11/1/06 at 6:45pm
Apple is freakin' obsessed with fan and hard disk noise, all at the expense of heat. Hope these new MacBookPros don't require lap/genital burning protection.
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post #54 of 87
11/1/06 at 6:47pm
Cats may be slightly disappointed though if the MBPs are too cool Macs keep pussy warm...
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post #55 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:05pm
I wish they would've updated the camera more than they did. Everyone in my office covers up the camera with a post it note because they don't like the camera pointed at them all the time. Its kinda freaky. Kinda like the 1984 book. They should enable a physical device to cover the camera, like a metal slider or something. Does it bother anyone else that there might be a one-way conference going on without your knowledge? Maybe we're just paranoid. Maybe not.
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post #56 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by web proofing

I wish they would've updated the camera more than they did. Everyone in my office covers up the camera with a post it note because they don't like the camera pointed at them all the time. Its kinda freaky. Kinda like the 1984 book. They should enable a physical device to cover the camera, like a metal slider or something. Does it bother anyone else that there might be a one-way conference going on without your knowledge? Maybe we're just paranoid. Maybe not.


The green light comes on when it's in use and you're in an office... it's not like people are naked in front of the camera.
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post #57 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Some Apple service people may deny your warranty if they realised you swapped your hard disk yourself. I don't think that's FUD.

...

Australia, Singapore, USA, UK, you could get situations where they might make some claim that you "screwed up" somehow even if it's a minor thing like tape or foil in a slightly wrong place..... More of a consumer rights situation.

Maybe they can try to deny service, but their warranty writing is pretty clear on this, at least the US warranty. My understanding of the law is that it's illegal in the US to deny warranty service like that. It's basically the same law that was made to stop automakers from weaseling out of repairing defective cars because you put aftermarket wheels on it or something.
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post #58 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Some Apple service people may deny your warranty if they realised you swapped your hard disk yourself. I don't think that's FUD. An Apple reseller in Malaysia denied swapping our logic board claiming lightning burnt out the modem although clearly the iBook G4 was not used during rainy thunderstorms (of which there are a lot around the equator)...

Australia, Singapore, USA, UK, you could get situations where they might make some claim that you "screwed up" somehow even if it's a minor thing like tape or foil in a slightly wrong place..... More of a consumer rights situation.

Interestingly, the iBook G4 models have very quiet hard disks compared to PC notebooks - the small rubber dampeners that frame it work great.

The faster they go, the louder they are.
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post #59 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Apple is freakin' obsessed with fan and hard disk noise, all at the expense of heat. Hope these new MacBookPros don't require lap/genital burning protection.

Ever since people complained about the "wind tunnel" G4's.

They must have said that they would never allow that to happen again.
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post #60 of 87
11/1/06 at 8:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by web proofing

I wish they would've updated the camera more than they did. Everyone in my office covers up the camera with a post it note because they don't like the camera pointed at them all the time. Its kinda freaky. Kinda like the 1984 book. They should enable a physical device to cover the camera, like a metal slider or something. Does it bother anyone else that there might be a one-way conference going on without your knowledge? Maybe we're just paranoid. Maybe not.

These are pretty dumb people. If they use it even once, they should know that it was on.

They can also read the manual.
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post #61 of 87
11/5/06 at 3:18pm
Is there any reason I should buy the 17" MBP over the 15" one - other than the larger screen size? In other words, do you get anything else for the additional price? Anything you can't get on the 15" MBP? Thanks!
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post #62 of 87
11/5/06 at 5:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdcs1

Is there any reason I should buy the 17" MBP over the 15" one - other than the larger screen size? In other words, do you get anything else for the additional price? Anything you can't get on the 15" MBP? Thanks!

Uhh...you could look it up!

Seriously, the only differences are a standard 160GB drive (120 is standard on the 15", I ordered mine with 160 anyway) and an 8X dual layer superdrive (the SD on the 15" is 6X).
That with the screen costs $300 more. Personally I don't think it's worth it. The HD cost me $90 so that leaves at a $200 difference for that screen. My feeling is 17" is just too big anyway.
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post #63 of 87
11/5/06 at 7:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Uhh...you could look it up!

Seriously, the only differences are a standard 160GB drive (120 is standard on the 15", I ordered mine with 160 anyway) and an 8X dual layer superdrive (the SD on the 15" is 6X).
That with the screen costs $300 more. Personally I don't think it's worth it. The HD cost me $90 so that leaves at a $200 difference for that screen. My feeling is 17" is just too big anyway.

The 17" also has a 13% higher capacity battery. You get an extra USB port. It's probably not worth it though. You can buy an extra monitor for the price difference.
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post #64 of 87
11/5/06 at 9:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

The faster they go, the louder they are.

[The 5400rpm hard disk modded into my iBook G4 933mhz] actually is still really queerly quantifiably qualitatively quite quiet 8) Those rubber rings that hold the hard disk in place on the iBook g4 are teh roXX0rs.
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post #65 of 87
11/5/06 at 10:00pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by web proofing

I wish they would've updated the camera more than they did. Everyone in my office covers up the camera with a post it note because they don't like the camera pointed at them all the time. Its kinda freaky. Kinda like the 1984 book. They should enable a physical device to cover the camera, like a metal slider or something. Does it bother anyone else that there might be a one-way conference going on without your knowledge? Maybe we're just paranoid. Maybe not.

(edit: removed remarks)
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post #66 of 87
11/5/06 at 10:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdcs1

Is there any reason I should buy the 17" MBP over the 15" one - other than the larger screen size? In other words, do you get anything else for the additional price? Anything you can't get on the 15" MBP? Thanks!

You should check the size of the 17" MBP and see if you're comfortable with it, and how consistent the display is (brightness/ contrast/ colors) across the WHOLE screen from edge to edge. Besides this, as noted above, there are some nicer touches for the additional price.
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post #67 of 87
11/6/06 at 12:15am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

[The 5400rpm hard disk modded into my iBook G4 933mhz] actually is still really queerly quantifiably qualitatively quite quiet 8) Those rubber rings that hold the hard disk in place on the iBook g4 are teh roXX0rs.

Well, also it depends on the company. Some companies drives are quieter than others. I mean within the same line.

It's the same thing for heat. The Barracuda's were always much hotter than other comparable drives.
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post #68 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrdcs1

Is there any reason I should buy the 17" MBP over the 15" one - other than the larger screen size? In other words, do you get anything else for the additional price? Anything you can't get on the 15" MBP? Thanks!

After dragging my 17" Powerbook G4 around for more than three years, I just ordered a 15" MBP. I usually fly in economy -- playing with the G4 only really worked in an exit row. I use a 20" Apple display at home as my main screen, so ordering a 15" just seemed like the right thing to do.

Are there tiny post-it notes I can buy to cover just the bezel camera?
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post #69 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:29pm
I think a 17" makes sense if you have to use it professionally. I use it in video and that helps on editing.
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post #70 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by kfdan

I think a 17" makes sense if you have to use it professionally. I use it in video and that helps on editing.

That happens to be the market it was designed for.
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post #71 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

I don't think there are any PC drivers for the iSight in Macintels so even running Bootcamp or virtual machines, this is not an issue.

...

I've been a bit of an ass in my response,

I think the ass is partially on you this time. There are drivers for the iSight in the bundle. On Apple's own Boot Camp Page:

Boot Camp 1.1.2 beta includes:
...snip...
* Support for built-in iSight cameras
...snip...
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post #72 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I think the ass is partially on you this time. There are drivers for the iSight in the bundle. On Apple's own Boot Camp Page:

Boot Camp 1.1.2 beta includes:
...snip...
* Support for built-in iSight cameras
...snip...

Ooh. I'm happy I refrained from saying it.
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post #73 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

It's the same thing for heat. The Barracuda's were always much hotter than other comparable drives.

Really? I looked up Storage Review's performance database regarding their power consumption, idle and active. Barracuda is mostly in line with several of the Barracuda's competitors. I thought they measured temperature too, but that's probably not tested anymore. I don't expect temperature to be much different with fairly similar packaging.
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post #74 of 87
11/6/06 at 2:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

Really? I looked up Storage Review's performance database regarding their power consumption, idle and active. Barracuda is mostly in line with several of the Barracuda's competitors. I thought they measured temperature too, but that's probably not tested anymore. I don't expect temperature to be much different with fairly similar packaging.

They were HOT! It was a known factor when dealing with them.
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post #75 of 87
11/6/06 at 4:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I think the ass is partially on you this time. There are drivers for the iSight in the bundle. On Apple's own Boot Camp Page:

Boot Camp 1.1.2 beta includes:
...snip...
* Support for built-in iSight cameras
...snip...

Fair enough, my boo boo. But what PC programs work with it? MSN Messenger? Other webcam stuff? The drivers and "support" may be there but I am curious how well off-the-fresh-download webcam programs will recognize the iSight.
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post #76 of 87
11/6/06 at 5:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by WebProofing

I wish they would've updated the camera more than they did. Everyone in my office covers up the camera with a post it note because they don't like the camera pointed at them all the time. Its kinda freaky. Kinda like the 1984 book. They should enable a physical device to cover the camera, like a metal slider or something. Does it bother anyone else that there might be a one-way conference going on without your knowledge? Maybe we're just paranoid. Maybe not.

My initial response was quite volatile and possibly partially due to my disdain for office/ corporate environments.

Given that Apple has provided WindowsXP2 drivers to access the iSight, yes, it is theoretically possible for some spyware to be written that infects Windows BootCamp on your MacBookPro to access the iSight and transmit to who knows where without your knowledge. However, at the low-level driver access, the greenlight next to the iSight should always come on when the iSight is being accessed, even if by the spyware. Possibly, the list goes on - maybe the spyware can hack the Apple drivers so that the greenlight does NOT come on when it is accessing the iSight without you knowing...

It's a question about how far your paranoia extends, how vulnerable PC Windows is, and how much peace of mind one gets with using a Mac and OS X.

Though I wish you would have a more elegant solution of covering the iSight than using a post-it note! Also without damaging the lens element.
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post #77 of 87
11/7/06 at 5:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Fair enough, my boo boo. But what PC programs work with it? MSN Messenger? Other webcam stuff? The drivers and "support" may be there but I am curious how well off-the-fresh-download webcam programs will recognize the iSight.

I thought there were APIs to handle that sort of thing. Not only that, Macromedia Flash is multi-platform and it supports webcams, and that support is on by default unless you go to the effort to turn it off.
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post #78 of 87
11/7/06 at 5:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

They were HOT! It was a known factor when dealing with them.

I've been using Barracudas for over four years and really haven't had a heat issue. Do you mean the Seagate notebook drives? Barracudas are desktop drives, the Momentus line is for the notebooks, and I have little to no experience with them.
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post #79 of 87
11/7/06 at 12:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Also without damaging the lens element.

That's my point. A nice sliding or covering piece would keep the bezel in a nice aluminum finish instead of having a black focal point in the bezel. No security or privacy issues ever need to be considered. That way you confidently and easily choose when to have a web conference or take other pictures. Hardware can trump software in so many cases.

And yes, your comments were crude. Bringing my wonderful wife into the conversation in a vulgar manner was very unprofessional. Keep the comments on topic.
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post #80 of 87
11/7/06 at 2:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by web proofing

And yes, your comments were crude...

I apologise, sometimes new users to the forum are unfamiliar with the sometimes crude or off-topic tangents we older users get used to, or specifically, the style of posting I get away with. Not a leet vs. n00b thing, in general I don't like offending people. Though sometimes caustic, my posts are sometimes funny (humourous) once you get used to it.

Anyway, when brought up as offensive to specific posters, I have usually removed my original post, as you see previously it has been edited out. Okay, that said, everyone, do continue.
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