or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › G5: I want the TRUTH
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

G5: I want the TRUTH

post #1 of 44
Thread Starter 
I've been siftin' and sortin' through all the bogus claims here, but few posts articulate the truth. Ready for it?

The register and MOSR are correct, to a point. The clockspeed will not meet their predictions, but this is a minor point. Of major importance is that the G5 will arrive, and it will be hideously fast.

1. Why is the G5 nearly here? Because Apple has been dumping money into G5 development ever since the 500MHz G4 debacle. As soon as the G4's scaling bug was discovered, Apple decided to cut their losses and concentrate R&D on the G5.

This year has brought very minimal gains in performance for the G4. Apple cannot remain in business for long with these sorts of gains. We've only gone frome 500MHz to 867 MHz this year, which is quite pathetic for a year. Factor in the 18 months at 500 MHz, and it's a wonder that Apple is still in business.

2. Why will the G5 debute at lower MHz? Apple has two reasons for introducing the G5 at lower clockspeeds. Number one is that they do not wish to alienate recent powermac buyers by jumping to 1.6 GHz. It would render all existing powermacs obsolete, and thus their value would bottom out. It is in Apple's best interest to maintain the value of older powermacs. Second, it is good business sense to introduce the G5 at a lower MHz, and the gradually, throughout the year, boost MHz. With each boost in MHz, Apple will get another wave of sales, and their profits will be maximized.

So expect the G5 to debute with only modest MHz gains. However, the performance gains will be staggering. 400 MHz system bus, ddr RAM....this thing is going to be a total beast. Maya is going to rock on it, and even at the lower MHz, the G5 will stomp Pentium 4s. Yes, it will be that fast.

Here's what to expect for the G5 intro:

Powermacs:
900 MHz
1 GHz
1.1 GHz
1.1 GHz, dual

The low end mac may even use a G4, with older mobo to save money and boost profits.

However, by the end of 2002, expect powermacs using G5s with speeds up to 1.8-2.0 GHz. Apple is serious about recapturing the lead in desktop computing performance. By the end of next year, the Powermac will be faster than any Wintel available, and OS X will be fully optimized and feature-laden. It is a good time to be a Mac user, and Apple is going to be gaining marketshare with a little luck. All the pieces are in place for a Mac revolution.
post #2 of 44
I can't resist:

YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH!
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #3 of 44
Sounds like with a faster Bus, DDRRAM and those speeds that the previous line of PowerMacs WOULD be "alienated", as you put it.

Those speeds may be accurate, but I doubt Apple could punch out a 1.6Ghz G5 in the initail release...
post #4 of 44
Thread Starter 
No, you don't understand. Alienating the customers is based primarily on MHz. Apple could sell a low-end powermac that's twice as fast as the current high-end powermac, but as long as the MHz aren't much greater, few will realize it.

As for the G5 MHz ratings, Moto is pumping out G5s all the way up to 2 GHz. 1.6 could be done by March or so. But Apple isn't going to use them...they will stick to 1.1-1.2 GHz at most for the first release. This also gives Apple time to stockpile the faster G5s so when they are released Apple has enough for dualies or more.
post #5 of 44
How about they DO release the g5's at 1.2-1.6GHz but at the same time have G5 upgrades available for DA=QS powermac owners(reasonably priced of course)? That way they don't alienate users and extend the value of their older systems. Apple did it before when they released the PowerPC in 94. They offered motherboard upgrades then. now it is much simpler, a daughtercard would be all that's necessary and perhaps an OS upgrade/patch.
post #6 of 44
I have been thinking last night, G5 is definately not coming in January if any of the rumours *are* correct. why?

G5 is at rev 0.6 (probably 0.7 by now). Assuming a revision every 2-3 weeks, it would be the end of december before revision 1.

Do you think Apple is going to be able to take the finished G5, design a MB for it, have it beta tested, have suppliers make tens of thousands of finished MB's, ship them to Apple early January for release at MWSF?

Im sure Apple has developed working Prototype MB for the revisions available, but you cant design a finished MB for a product that doesn't exist in its final state.

I think even a February MWTokyo would be pushing it a bit.
post #7 of 44
[quote]1. Why is the G5 nearly here? Because Apple has been dumping money into G5 development ever since the 500MHz G4 debacle. As soon as the G4's scaling bug was discovered, Apple decided to cut their losses and concentrate R&D on the G5.
<hr></blockquote>

Couple things.

1)It does not follow that "dumping" money will result in a product finished on schedule.

2)The G4's 'scaling bug' wasn't a bug. Rather the culmination of a design that wasn't built to scale well *and* Motorola's own process technology.
rm -rf /bin/laden
Reply
rm -rf /bin/laden
Reply
post #8 of 44
Apple might have some interest in placating their existing user base, but there are two interests in direct conflict: First of all, Apple has every reason to want to spark a big old round of hardware upgrades, and the more machines they obsolete, the more upgrades they sell - up to a point. Second of all, Steve has acknowledged that Apple has some catching up to do MHz-wise, and he's stated that Apple will close the "MHz gap." That strongly implies an accelerated upgrade schedule, similar in fact to the one that both Intel and AMD adopted when they started racing each other.
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
"...within intervention's distance of the embassy." - CvB

Original music:
The Mayflies - Black earth Americana. Now on iTMS!
Becca Sutlive - Iowa Fried Rock 'n Roll - now on iTMS!
Reply
post #9 of 44
Never thought I'd see the day that I would say this, but....

Excellent post, JD, and I agree completely.


You have to look at the evolution of both technology and marketing to see Apple's future directions, and I think you've nailed it.
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
eye
bee
BEE
Reply
post #10 of 44
I think it would be good for Apple to start out the G5 with a large speed boost. If you're right about them having 2 Ghz G5s, then I'd say maybe they should wait on those for the stockpiling purposes mentioned, but they should start out close for a couple of reasons.

1. as pointed out this would get more users to upgrade
2. it would "close the MHz gap" and put allow Apple to be competitive MHz-wise
3. it would show people that the G5 is a processor to respect. A sudden jump from 867 MHz to over 1.5 GHz would make people think (hopefully accurately) that Apple is really going somewhere, and that the Macintosh is a platform worth investing in
"America is a society where intellect seems to be out of style, replaced by garish gold jewelry, and winter clothes worn year round."
Reply
"America is a society where intellect seems to be out of style, replaced by garish gold jewelry, and winter clothes worn year round."
Reply
post #11 of 44
Thread Starter 
[quote] How about they DO release the g5's at 1.2-1.6GHz but at the same time have G5 upgrades available for DA=QS powermac owners(reasonably priced of course)? <hr></blockquote>

LOL, ROTFLMAO!!! &lt;wipes tears from eyes&gt;

Dude, will you send me some of that fine sh!t you're smokin'? 'Cause it's been really dry around here!

The chances of Apple selling CPU upgrades under Steve Jobs are about as good as the chances of me moving to Afghanistan and opening up a whorehouse. Apple makes their money off computers, not upgrade cards.

There are also technical limitations. The G5 would need a different power supply, more elaborate cooling, and probably would not run under the older sawtooth mobo without extensive modifications. Apple is busting their asses to get the G5 running on a specific mobo, and they don't have time to design a G5 daughter card for old mobos.

But mainly, the current Apple is not in the business of selling upgrade cards. Since Jobs has returned to Apple, they have done everything in their power to prevent users from overclocking, upgrading, and anything else that would postpone buying a new mac.
post #12 of 44
Listen, up until a couple weeks ago, who would have thought Apple would be in the MP3 player business? I thought that was the oddest thing... upgrade cards from Apple would make more sense.. especially if the actual G5 motherboards were in short supply, the cards would make a good transition. i think Apple is willing to try new things - the iPod and future devices to come out should attest to that. Most likely this won't come to pass but they should consider it. i can't buy a mac every 6 months.
post #13 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by MarcUK:
<strong>I have been thinking last night, G5 is definately not coming in January if any of the rumours *are* correct. why?

G5 is at rev 0.6 (probably 0.7 by now). Assuming a revision every 2-3 weeks, it would be the end of december before revision 1.</strong>
<hr></blockquote>

Yeah, well what if 0.7 is becomes the final candidate smartypants? There would be no need for 0.8 or 0.9.

[quote]
Do you think Apple is going to be able to take the finished G5, design a MB for it, have it beta tested, have suppliers make tens of thousands of finished MB's, ship them to Apple early January for release at MWSF?
<hr></blockquote>

Well if Dorsal could be trusted (and he can't...you all blindly follow him...JYD is right, Dorsal has been spewing bullshit and you've all been eating it up and lovin' it) then the MBs have been done for a long time. But like I said, Dorsal == bullshit.

That doesn't mean the MB aren't done though. I'm sure Apple is almost done with the mobos.

[quote]
Im sure Apple has developed working Prototype MB for the revisions available, but you cant design a finished MB for a product that doesn't exist in its final state.

I think even a February MWTokyo would be pushing it a bit.<hr></blockquote>

True...the mobo can't be done until the final revision of the G5 is on ol' Steve-o's laps. But what makes you think it isn't? The Register? MOSR? You're mother? LOL!

Besides, I'm building the plastics for the new G5 right now! And I've taken an English course.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: kim kap sol ]</p>
post #14 of 44
Does it look anything like the Okama game sphere???

post #15 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>Does it look anything like the Okama game sphere???</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's classified.

You wouldn't want ol' Kenny from Korea to lose his assembly line job now would you?

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: kim kap sol ]</p>
post #16 of 44
You guys are all dreaming, I'm sorry to say but you are all heading for a big let down this January.

1Ghz G4 Macs, yes, but G5's, no way.

While I do agree that the G5 will be out within the next year, it's gonna be a while yet.
post #17 of 44
Oh how I've missed this board....

The speculation....
The BS....
The Name calling...
The love...
I'm not really here.
Reply
I'm not really here.
Reply
post #18 of 44
Ok, once and for all, everyone needs to understand that the 'alienating previous customers' train of thought is ridiculous. Once you buy your mac Apple tries hard to keep you happy with timely updates of mac exclusive software like iTunes and iMovie and AppleWorks, but that's it. The reason they would gradually increase speeds could only be two. 1) Market projections indicate there is more money to be made from gradually bumping models at that particular time, or 2) faster chips just aren't ready for volume production.

Apple otherwise doesn't give a crap if your machine is rapidly superceded by another, even the day after you buy it. That's supposed to be the goal! Any appearance to the contrary is most likely due a lack of faster parts.

[ 11-27-2001: Message edited by: Matsu ]</p>
IBL!
Reply
IBL!
Reply
post #19 of 44
Matsu
agreed
There is no way Apple would sit on faster equipment just to keep recent customers from feeling let down.
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #20 of 44
I bought a 7100 when they first came out and shortly thereafter they switched to PCI and dumped Nubus. This is obviously a switch that was in the works for a while, and they didn't care that I got screwed. AND THEY SHOULDN'T CARE.

Apples goal should be to release machines in a timely fashion to keep interest and demand up. If technology is available and doesn't hurt the bottom line they will add it.

I just can't beleive how many people complain when they buy a new computer and something better comes along, yet when Apple has a MHz slump and no significant speed bumps they also complain. Which way do you want it???? I've got news for you, the day BEFORE you buy your new computer they've already got something faster in the works.
I'm not really here.
Reply
I'm not really here.
Reply
post #21 of 44
Buying a fast new computer is very similar to buying a fast, fancy new car. It's quite a thrill at first but the new, fast, everybody looks at it thrill doesn't last more than about 3 years.

In order to get the maximum time out of this you have to spend the maximum amount of money.

It's fun while it lasts but, you can't get upset when something new comes along ( or if you buy just before the new model comes out ). That's just the way it is and you still have something nice.

I know people who would love to have my G4 450 that I bought in 2000. It ain't fast in comparison anymore but I still enjoy it a lot.

[ 11-28-2001: Message edited by: jimmac ]</p>
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
Reply
post #22 of 44
IMHO, assuming Apple is sitting right now on a sufficient number of G5 mofos up to 1.6GHz, then releasing those in January, with current price points, configs ranging from 1.2 to 1.6 GHz, the mere shock to the Wintel community and subsequent mass conversion of pro niche markets would alone be worthwhile. Then consider the number of people waiting to upgrade. Some of the G3 users might not be considering an upgrade quite yet, however such a speed boost would definitely spur sales.

Apple will not, and should not, worry about making previous machines obsolete. It doesn't make them any slower.
Soyons réalistes, Demandons l'impossible.
Reply
Soyons réalistes, Demandons l'impossible.
Reply
post #23 of 44
SYN brings up a good point. Apple must realize there are tons of G3/86/9600 owners out there who are satisfied with their machines but want to run OS X soon. they view the G4 PowerMac as not enough reason to upgrade but a G5 running at GHz plus speeds would be incentive enough. I'm sure there are more than a couple Plus and SE owners out there waiting for a worthwhile upgrade...
post #24 of 44
[quote]I know people who would love to have my G4 450 that I bought in 2000. It ain't fast in comparison anymore but I still enjoy it a <hr></blockquote>

That's how I feel with my 500MHz iBook. When the 600MHz ones with the 100MHz bus came out I knew they'd be quite a bit faster than mine because of the extra 100MHz and the extra bus speed but I don't care because I love my iBook and will for a while.
post #25 of 44
The sad fact in the computer industry is that people will be buying computers the day before something "revolutionary" is released. It's unfair, but that's the way it is. With an ever expanding list of brick and mortar stores, Apple will have to release something soon that will make the stores viable. Any shopper seeing a "top of the line" Mac at 867 and a PC at 2000 and 1900+ is not going to be to terribly impressed with the MAC. So even if Apple does anger current owners, they'll not stay angry for long based on the speculated specs of these demons.
Can I get my icons in cornflower blue?
Reply
Can I get my icons in cornflower blue?
Reply
post #26 of 44
[quote]even if Apple does anger current owners, they'll not stay angry for long based on the speculated specs of these demons.[/QB]<hr></blockquote>

So true. I picked up a Quicksilver in August fully realizing Apollo & the G5 are in the pipe...when I placed my order, I had already reconciled myself to catching the next wave in a couple years. No regrets. And Matsu is dead on - the fastest processor available is just smart business. No more, no less...after all Apple is still living in a Wintel world, survival dictates that they go balls out, if possible.
You can't get here from there.
Reply
You can't get here from there.
Reply
post #27 of 44
From Motorola's Roadmap

G5
Extensible architecture
New pipeline
New bus topology/RapidIO Interconnect Architecture
32 & 64 bit products, backwards compatibility
Symmetric Processing Capabilities
0.13µ process with SOI initial G5 product
800MHz to 2Ghz+


In the immortal words of Lilly Tomlin "and that's the trueth"

[ 11-30-2001: Message edited by: rickag ]</p>
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
just waiting to be included in one of Apple's target markets.
Don't get me wrong, I like the flat panel iMac, actually own an iMac, and I like the Mac mini, but...........
Reply
post #28 of 44
Junkyard Dawg is the biggest f*cking moron on these boards. This is my first post in a very long time but i remember him from before, telling his "knowledge" of what the next generation of G4's would be, which were completely false i might add. Do not take anything he says seriously. He is an idiot.
post #29 of 44
damn I missed this shit. But where's MaDTOoL??

post #30 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by Outsider:
<strong>SYN brings up a good point. Apple must realize there are tons of G3/86/9600 owners out there who are satisfied with their machines but want to run OS X soon. they view the G4 PowerMac as not enough reason to upgrade but a G5 running at GHz plus speeds would be incentive enough. I'm sure there are more than a couple Plus and SE owners out there waiting for a worthwhile upgrade...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I know exactly what you mean. I have a Mac IIci and I think it is time for me to upgrade that machine. I would prefer a G5, but even a GHz G3 or G4 is much better than my Sonnet-increased IIci with a 68040 80 MHz. machine running System 7.6.1

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

Reply

-- Mike Eggleston
-- Mac Fanatic since 1984.
-- Proud Member of PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals
-- Wii #: 8913 3004 4519 2027

Reply
post #31 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by mrfett:
<strong>damn I missed this shit. But where's MaDTOoL??

</strong><hr></blockquote>

We waited this long for AI to come back only to start this crap again?
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
post #32 of 44
<a href="http://www.architosh.com/news/2001-11/2001a-1130-appleg5.phtml" target="_blank">Rumor & analysis</a> from architosh.
post #33 of 44
Thread Starter 
[quote] up until a couple weeks ago, who would have thought Apple would be in the MP3 player business? I thought that was the oddest thing... upgrade cards from Apple would make more sense.. especially if the actual G5 motherboards were in short supply, the cards would make a good transition. <hr></blockquote>

Nonsense. The mobos aren't the limiting factor here, it's the G5 chips. And if the G5 chips are in short supply (and they will be), then what do you think Apple will do:

1. Build fewer G5 powermacs so they can sell G5 upgrade cards to current Powermac owners who would rather buy an upgrade card than a new G5 powermac.

2. Use all of the G5 chips to build high-margin Powermacs.

Also, the iPod is a poor analogy, because nobody buys an iPod in place of upgrading their Mac. iPod sales can only act as an incentive for people to upgrade to newer Mac hardware, so it runs iTunes 2 better, so it has Firewire, ect.

Apple isn't out to save customers money, they are out to make money. While satisfied customers are important for good profits, this doesn't mean that Apple will forego sales to keep mac users happy. I feel like I'm stating the obvious, but apparently not:

Because of low chips supplies, which are certain for any new motorola chip, each G5 upgrade sold would mean one less Powermac sold. And the profit margin on a G5 powermac is clearly greater than it would be on some upgrade card.

Finally, if Apple were going to sell upgrade cards, why wait for the G5? There are many, many Powermac G3 owners around who would jump at the chance to buy a 7450 G4 upgrade card for their Smurf computers. If Apple offered 867 MHz G4 upgrade cards at the Apple store, they wouldn't be able to keep them in stock! So clearly Apple doesn't intend to sell upgrades.

But I'll tell you what; if Apple DOES offer a G5 upgrade card at the Apple store, I'll suck my own dick! You have my word on that one.
post #34 of 44
Here's some info (sorta) from yourdailymac.com-

[quote]
(11/30/01) The Latest from our source on the G5's

OK we got an email from our source last night telling us about the new G5's. Steve is planning a huge Ghz coming out party in January and he has even said that we wants all computers to hit 1 GHz. Now he does confirm the the new supercomputer will be running at 1.2, 1.4, and 1.6 GHz. But he says there are people also talking about maybe a 2.4 GHz chip announced as early as July in New York. So stay tuned.
<hr></blockquote>

...and the plot thickens...
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
Reply
All Your PCs Are Belong To Trash
Reply
post #35 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by Junkyard Dawg:
<strong>

But I'll tell you what; if Apple DOES offer a G5 upgrade card at the Apple store, I'll suck my own dick! You have my word on that one.</strong><hr></blockquote>
It would be interesting to see a performance like that, for me this is quite impossible

:eek:
post #36 of 44
[quote]Originally posted by apple_otaku:
<strong>

We waited this long for AI to come back only to start this crap again? </strong><hr></blockquote>

hey man, take a valium. you didn't get a kick out of 68K's alter ego? that was the funniest shit i ever saw on a message board.

<img src="confused.gif" border="0">
post #37 of 44
Uh... no. I think you may be the only one. We're supposed to be talking about future hardware and it typically ends up resulting in childish name calling and trolling. Why add even more?

[ 12-01-2001: Message edited by: apple_otaku ]</p>
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
Stuck in an infinite loop waiting for an Apple PDA...

apple.otaku
Reply
post #38 of 44
JD, why do you think I would be upset if Apple introduced a new system that makes my dual 800 totally obsolete? I knew when I bought it that it would be badly outdated within a year. I really needed a new machine last summer and got one. I am rooting for Apple to bring out a fast G5 box as quickly as possible. Trouble is, we see this kind of thing every MWSF. Anybody who thinks the G5s will be ready in the first quarter is in for a major disappointment. Maybe, just maybe, they'll show up about the time the MWSF whining is over on this board. That's usually about April.
The first commandment of ALL religions is to provide a comfortable living for the priesthood.
Reply
The first commandment of ALL religions is to provide a comfortable living for the priesthood.
Reply
post #39 of 44
junkyard dawg:

for as long as i can remember you have been posting the most retarded threads and replies to peoples honest posting.

you are an idiot. and stop creating a new thread every 5 minutes. i look down the list of thread creators and your name repeats over and over.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
post #40 of 44
G5's released at MWSF are really G4 Apollo's with different name, shh...?
<a href="http://www.thinksecret.com/features/powermacg5.html" target="_blank">G5?</a>
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Future Apple Hardware
AppleInsider › Forums › Mac Hardware › Future Apple Hardware › G5: I want the TRUTH