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Microsoft first to bat with direct-to-television movie downloads - Page 3

post #81 of 125
11/9/06 at 8:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

Finally someone put into words why for some reason I though the Xbox 360 idea was bad. I just felt it was, but couldn't think why, now I know.

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post #82 of 125
11/9/06 at 8:52am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ireland

Just curious as to how many hours it would take to download a HD movie with todays internet connections?


Completely depends on connection speed. Some ISP's are now offering extremely reasonable deals for up to 6.0 and 8.0 speeds (earthlink example below,) which would probably take less than a couple of hours..

http://www.earthlink.net/voice/bundles/dslhomephone/ - ( Earthlink's $69.95 voip phone and 8.0 Mbps DSL bundled service.)

However, with iTunes and Microsoft's movie services you can begin viewing these files after a few minutes.
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post #83 of 125
11/9/06 at 9:10am
Wow, the misinformation and ignorance in this thread is stunning.

Firstly, you do not need to be an Xbox Live Gold subscriber to access this video download service. You only need to be an Xbox Live member, which is free. Secondly, the service will use Microsoft Points, the same as Zune and other Xbox purchases, so there's synergy there.

Thirdly, people act like this Xbox Video Download service is the only way you can watch movies and TV shows on your Xbox 360. It's not.

Everything Apple has promised with iTV can already be done on Xbox 360 with a Windows PC. And I do mean everything, plus more besides.

Xbox 360 can access music, picture and video content from your standard Windows XP PC over the network (or your Mac if it is running Connect360.) But Xbox 360 takes it a step further and includes Windows Media Center Extender support, which means you can already access online movie stores on your Xbox 360 through your PC running Windows XP Media Center edition. And PCs running Media Center far outnumber Macs, both in market share and installed base.

Apple is absolutely playing catch-up in this space.

Me personally, I like this service because it's the very first online movie/TV download service that offers HD resolution. I dunno if I'll use it that often though. I'm waiting to get Verizon FIOS installed, which can download HD movies at faster-than-real-time speeds.
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post #84 of 125
11/9/06 at 9:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by staylor007

Why not just get Netflix? All you're doing is "renting" the movies through this service anyway? And only 24 hours to watch it? Sounds kind of strict to me.

yes...yes...too restrictive....i rent to view AT my convenience not MS. and what about cost? to do the xbox thing you have to buy an xbox. i think they are mired in their own arrogance. keep adding stuff to stuff to make it better stuff....say how do you get a virus off the xbox?? and are the HD's upgradable?? i think all this will let MS be number 2 and close the door on all those manufactures that compete with MS not apple. see i don't see this or any thing MS does as "ipod" or "apple" killer. i think the biggest hurt will be from creative, and others. MS says i can't really compete with apple so i will gobble up what i can when i can. it's not about apple, it's about 3rd party mp3 makers, tivo etc.....not apple. i think SJ will drop a bomb on all this in jan and be bigger than we all think. Oh and can we get more ipod stuff in yuch brown please--oooooh must be ahead of the consumer curve there don't you think...oh zune i knew they least.
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post #85 of 125
11/9/06 at 10:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

However, with iTunes and Microsoft's movie services you can begin viewing these files after a few minutes.

However, if you do that with Microsoft's service, you better make sure you don't have any interruptions....tick tock, tick tock.
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post #86 of 125
11/9/06 at 10:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnDunn

Everything Apple has promised with iTV can already be done on Xbox 360 with a Windows PC. And I do mean everything, plus more besides.

Xbox 360 can access music, picture and video content from your standard Windows XP PC over the network (or your Mac if it is running Connect360.) But Xbox 360 takes it a step further and includes Windows Media Center Extender support, which means you can already access online movie stores on your Xbox 360 through your PC running Windows XP Media Center edition. And PCs running Media Center far outnumber Macs, both in market share and installed base.

Apple is absolutely playing catch-up in this space.

Actually you were able to do all of this on your Mac before the xBox 360 was on the market with Front Row, which if you wanted to you could hook up to a television.

As I have said before, all iTV is just a pretty interface, a thin client if you will.

I could buy a Mac mini, hook it up to my tv and have it point to my iMac and there you go. I will have an iTV before Apple even release it. Plus I will have additional storage space on the mini itself.

So I hate to prove you wrong but Apple had this on the market before Microsoft.
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post #87 of 125
11/9/06 at 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER

yes...yes...too restrictive....i rent to view AT my convenience not MS. and what about cost? to do the xbox thing you have to buy an xbox. i think they are mired in their own arrogance. keep adding stuff to stuff to make it better stuff....say how do you get a virus off the xbox?? and are the HD's upgradable?? i think all this will let MS be number 2 and close the door on all those manufactures that compete with MS not apple. see i don't see this or any thing MS does as "ipod" or "apple" killer. i think the biggest hurt will be from creative, and others. MS says i can't really compete with apple so i will gobble up what i can when i can. it's not about apple, it's about 3rd party mp3 makers, tivo etc.....not apple. i think SJ will drop a bomb on all this in jan and be bigger than we all think. Oh and can we get more ipod stuff in yuch brown please--oooooh must be ahead of the consumer curve there don't you think...oh zune i knew they least.

1. Restrictive? What is so restrictive about clicking "rent now" when you are ready to view. No one is making you click when it is not AT YOUR convenience?

2. Cost? you say to do the xbox thing you need to buy an Xbox? You're right, and to do the iTv thing you need to buy an iTv? iTv is $199, xbox is $299 and does EVERYTHING iTv can do plus it has a DVD player, a hard drive AND it can play games.

2. Xbox keeps adding stuff to make it better? Actually, Xbox has had wifi capabilities (the same as iTv will have) since it launched last year.

Just playing the Devil's advocate here.. Quite honestly, Ms's model does not seem to bad. Rentals, High Definition and a hardware device that matches iTv's capabilities and does more.
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post #88 of 125
11/9/06 at 10:30am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

Actually you were able to do all of this on your Mac before the xBox 360 was on the market with Front Row, which if you wanted to you could hook up to a television.

As I have said before, all iTV is just a pretty interface, a thin client if you will.

I could buy a Mac mini, hook it up to my tv and have it point to my iMac and there you go. I will have an iTV before Apple even release it. Plus I will have additional storage space on the mini itself.

So I hate to prove you wrong but Apple had this on the market before Microsoft.

Actually, I think Xbox 360 and Front Row came out about the same time..
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post #89 of 125
11/9/06 at 10:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

...that matches iTv's capabilities and does more.

This "more" thing you speak of (gaming) does not appeal to everyone. When will the people in this thread get that? Not everyone is a gamer
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post #90 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

1. Restrictive? What is so restrictive about clicking "rent now" when you are ready to view. No one is making you click when it is not AT YOUR convenience?

2. Cost? you say to do the xbox thing you need to buy an Xbox? You're right, and to do the iTv thing you need to buy an iTv? iTv is $199, xbox is $299 and does EVERYTHING iTv can do plus it has a DVD player, a hard drive AND it can play games.

2. Xbox keeps adding stuff to make it better? Actually, Xbox has had wifi capabilities (the same as iTv will have) since it launched last year.

Just playing the Devil's advocate here.. Quite honestly, Ms's model does not seem to bad. Rentals, High Definition and a hardware device that matches iTv's capabilities and does more.

tick tock tick tock, i have little kids like many families and i should be able to view with a rental as much as i want ....hey i've seen schrek 2 a billion times, the incredibles way more. so for those with kids the time frame should be my own. and i am not a gamer. so what about the virus question???

perhaps you can lend me your xbox so i can participate with MS and test the waters.
does MS have a history of doing something the consumer really wants or has to accept. that business model has changed for the better apple has set the standard. as for my family we will follow apple.
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post #91 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:43am
The rumored $4 per rental doesn't seem too bad but still a hair too high for my tastes.

This type of service doesn't compete with DVDs as much as it competes with PPV and VOD (pay ones) from cable and satellite providers. I have FIOS and as long as Verizon doesn't keel over from everyone hammering their infrastucture I should be able to stream a 720p HD feed after a few minutes of buffer.

Vinea
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post #92 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER

tick tock tick tock, i have little kids like many families and i should be able to view with a rental as much as i want ....hey i've seen schrek 2 a billion times, the incredibles way more. so for those with kids the time frame should be my own. and i am not a gamer. so what about the virus question???

perhaps you can lend me your xbox so i can participate with MS and test the waters.
does MS have a history of doing something the consumer really wants or has to accept. that business model has changed for the better apple has set the standard. as for my family we will follow apple.

You can view as much as you want within the rental period which is 24 hours. Just like renting from a video store, It's due back the next day but you can watch it as much as you want during that timeframe. If you don't return by it's due date you will either pay a late fee or have to re-rent.

Viruses? Xbox does not have any viruses, It does not run the Windows OS. To date, Xbox is just as virus free as OSX.

I don't know what you mean by "Apple has set the standard." Apples business model is to purchase movies, which personally, I'm not interested in.. I like to purchase music, but I have always "rented" movies. I hope that Apple eventually introduces a rental option for it's movies, until then I'm not interested in paying $10-$14 to own a digital file I will likely only watch once.
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post #93 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

This "more" thing you speak of (gaming) does not appeal to everyone. When will the people in this thread get that? Not everyone is a gamer

True, but for $100 more you're still getting a Hi-Def DVD player and a hard drive.
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post #94 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

True, but for $100 more you're still getting a Hi-Def DVD player and a hard drive.

Do you work for Microsoft or something? What the point of this statement?
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post #95 of 125
11/9/06 at 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

Actually you were able to do all of this on your Mac before the xBox 360 was on the market with Front Row, which if you wanted to you could hook up to a television.

As I have said before, all iTV is just a pretty interface, a thin client if you will.

I could buy a Mac mini, hook it up to my tv and have it point to my iMac and there you go. I will have an iTV before Apple even release it. Plus I will have additional storage space on the mini itself.

So I hate to prove you wrong but Apple had this on the market before Microsoft.

Microsoft had the Media Center interface (which is directly analogous to Front Row) way back in 2003. It had Media Center Extender devices (which are directly analogous to iTV) back in 2004. Even the previous Xbox had Media Center Extender functionality. Xbox 360 is just the latest in a long line of devices with Media Extender functionality.

The facts are as simple as they are clear. Apple is just getting into this space while Microsoft has been doing it for years. Windows Media Center is a more mature, robust, feature-packed platform. And with Xbox 360 and Windows Vista, it will be even easier to use than Apple's products.

Media Center Extender users can already download movies and TV shows from their couches. This is nothing new for us. I did it the day before iTV was announced, but it's been possible since 2004.

But of course, now Xbox 360 has its own self-contained video download store, with HD movies and TV shows, no PC required. They have said it will interconnect with Zune in future. Apple has nothing like this. Period.
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post #96 of 125
11/9/06 at 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

Do you work for Microsoft or something? What the point of this statement?


No I don't work for Microsoft... I'm a huge Apple supporter... But honestly, this is the first time I like Microsofts approach better than Apple's. There are two biggies that I think Microsoft is getting right in regards to movies. A rental option and HD quality. I'll be happy to use iTV if these options are available upon it's release... I"ve never purchased movies on DVD and I don't intend to start purchasing movies in digital files just because Apple is selling them.. Let me rent my movies for a couple of bucks each and I'll happily plop down $199 to buy an iTv box to watch them with. Afterall, isn't it Apple who says "the money's in the hardware, not the content."
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post #97 of 125
11/9/06 at 12:14pm
gee i get to watch something "as much as i want" as long as it's MS 24hrs. the consumer should pick the time frame for me it's when ever i want. i like netflix maybe apple should buy them or use their model.
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post #98 of 125
11/9/06 at 12:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NOFEER

gee i get to watch something "as much as i want" as long as it's MS 24hrs. the consumer should pick the time frame for me it's when ever i want. i like netflix maybe apple should buy them or use their model.


Why is it so hard for you to understand the concept of RENTING... It's no different than renting a dvd from a video store. To "rent" means to pay to use something for a limited time period. With movies, it's generally a 24 hour period unless you pay a monthly fee for unlimited usage. If you think you or your kids are going to watch something 10, 20 or a 100 times, then you'd probably be better off BUYING it. But I think it's safe to say that the majority of people who "rent" a movie watch it once and then return it.
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post #99 of 125
11/9/06 at 1:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

Do you work for Microsoft or something? What the point of this statement?

What does it matter what company makes the product? I don't even know what brand my bedroom cheepie DVD player is but the features on it were good and the price was right.
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post #100 of 125
11/9/06 at 6:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by pt123

What does it matter what company makes the product? I don't even know what brand my bedroom cheepie DVD player is but the features on it were good and the price was right.

What does it matter? For the same reason I do not like going into places like The Good Guys or Circut City...

me: what's this thing do?
them: oh it's a video game console
me: oh thanks not interested, not much of a gamer
them: but for a 100 bucks more it can do X, Y, and Z
me: I told you I'm not much of a gamer.
them: but....

I'm not that dumb to not know what a video game console is but I just flat out don't care and the rest of America who do not play video games will not buy a new xBox because you can rent HD movies and TV and also doubles as an HD-DVD player. If they don't play video games then the device will not appeal to them.
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post #101 of 125
11/9/06 at 6:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

All new Mac's (except the mini) have 802.11n.

Currently unsupported (AFAIK) draft-n.
Quote:
iTV will have 802.11n

That's still speculation since only "802.11" support has been announced by Apple (AFAIK).

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

iTv is $199

Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

I'll happily plop down $199 to buy an iTv box

$299 was the price announced during the Showtime presentation.

How's the Xbox 360 fan noise?
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post #102 of 125
11/9/06 at 6:52pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

Let me rent my movies for a couple of bucks each and I'll happily plop down $199 to buy an iTv box to watch them with."

..$299

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post #103 of 125
11/9/06 at 6:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by sjk

How's the Xbox 360 fan noise?



/in other news the PS3 is super quiet. Here's a quote from Joystiq: "At a rating of just 22 decibels, it’s only slightly louder than a human whisper. All we know is that we could barely hear it running."

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post #104 of 125
11/9/06 at 7:16pm
Quote:
The facts are as simple as they are clear. Apple is just getting into this space while Microsoft has been doing it for years.

But not very successfully. If Media Center were its own company it will have been unprofitable since 2003.

Quote:
And with Xbox 360 and Windows Vista, it will be even easier to use than Apple's products.

You cannot really say that for sure. We've only had a preview of iTV.

Since Apple is selling iTV for Mac and Windows, Apple knows it will need to have some compelling reason for Windows users to choose it over Media Center.
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post #105 of 125
11/9/06 at 7:41pm
Thanks for all who corrected me, $299...
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post #106 of 125
11/9/06 at 8:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell

But not very successfully. If Media Center were its own company it will have been unprofitable since 2003.



You cannot really say that for sure. We've only had a preview of iTV.

Since Apple is selling iTV for Mac and Windows, Apple knows it will need to have some compelling reason for Windows users to choose it over Media Center.

Judging by the fact that XP Media Center Edition has all but replaced XP Home Edition as the consumer version of Windows, and is bundled on most mid to high-end consumer PCs, I'd say the Media Center team has done very well. The Extenders haven't been successful, but Microsoft doesn't make those, except the one inside the 360. And the 360 has been a success so far (though not financially.)

Having used Vista Media Center and 360 together, I can tell you that the two work together very well.
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post #107 of 125
11/9/06 at 8:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

Thanks for all who corrected me, $299...

no it's $299

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post #108 of 125
11/9/06 at 9:02pm
Quote:
Judging by the fact that XP Media Center Edition has all but replaced XP Home Edition as the consumer version of Windows, and is bundled on most mid to high-end consumer PCs, I'd say the Media Center team has done very well.

That's because now it comes bundled. Until last year buying a media center was an optional. An option that few people chose.

In 2005 Media Center was four years old and had only sold 6.5 million copies out of the hundreds of millions of copies of Windows in the world. That is why MS decided to bundle it with most consumer PC's above $500.

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Having used Vista Media Center and 360 together, I can tell you that the two work together very well.

Well that does not mean iTV will not work better. Apple has a better track record with device convergence and elegant user interface, and still has a couple of months to work on iTV.
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post #109 of 125
11/9/06 at 9:11pm
Everybody!!! The iTV isn't for computer geeks, it's for regular people, it's for anyone, even your mothers etc. who can barely work a DVD player. If you have a modern HD TV, you can plug the iTV into the wall, and plug into your TV with one lead, turn on the iTV and away you go. From what Jobs demoed, it's about as easy to use as a toaster. So if you can make toast without burning your house to the ground, then this will be as easy to use for you as it's gets, technology-wise. You just sit back in your chair with your tiny little remote and browse away. With Google and YouTube in Apple's pockets now, we can clearly assume users will be able to watch and browse viral videos from their couches with easy. And my mother doesn't know what an Xbox 360 is, but she knows what an iPod is.

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post #110 of 125
11/10/06 at 12:25pm
I don't understand why everyone thinks it's so damn complicated to use an Xbox 360. The setup to link your computer and 360 together so you can use it as an MCE is cake. Everyone just thinks that since it's a MS product it has to be complicated. It's as simple as any other game system.

If Apple offers HD Downloads at a competitve price then I'll definately take a look at iTV, I'm thrilled to try out the Matrix in HD when the service launches on the 22nd.

Also whats all this complaining about rental restrictions? Have any of you used the On Demand features of Cable or DBS Companies? Apparently not. MS is pretty much using the same model as they are for the rental concept. If you don't like it then don't use it and rent your videos from NetFlix or Blockbuster, but those aren't exactly on demand are they?
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post #111 of 125
11/10/06 at 1:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

What does it matter? For the same reason I do not like going into places like The Good Guys or Circut City...

I'm not that dumb to not know what a video game console is but I just flat out don't care and the rest of America who do not play video games will not buy a new xBox because you can rent HD movies and TV and also doubles as an HD-DVD player. If they don't play video games then the device will not appeal to them.

Best Buy, Circuit City, Good Guys, bring it on. I could spend hours there.

I've never smart enough to think of it as a video game console, I've always thought of it as an Xbox. Hey, I wouldn't get it for the video game thing either, but the HD-DVD is another story.
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post #112 of 125
11/11/06 at 9:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by scavanger

I don't understand why everyone thinks it's so damn complicated to use an Xbox 360. The setup to link your computer and 360 together so you can use it as an MCE is cake. Everyone just thinks that since it's a MS product it has to be complicated. It's as simple as any other game system.

If Apple offers HD Downloads at a competitve price then I'll definately take a look at iTV, I'm thrilled to try out the Matrix in HD when the service launches on the 22nd.

Also whats all this complaining about rental restrictions? Have any of you used the On Demand features of Cable or DBS Companies? Apparently not. MS is pretty much using the same model as they are for the rental concept. If you don't like it then don't use it and rent your videos from NetFlix or Blockbuster, but those aren't exactly on demand are they?

what he said!!

i feel the same way. i don't understand what is so hard about plugging in an xbox360. there are far more complicated things to do, like setting up a surround sound system and people still do it. game console UIs aren't that hard to figure out. and, if people manage to use 4 different remote controllers at home i don't see why using the 360 would be such a hassle.
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post #113 of 125
11/11/06 at 9:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by solsun

2. Cost? you say to do the xbox thing you need to buy an Xbox? You're right, and to do the iTv thing you need to buy an iTv? iTv is $199, xbox is $299 and does EVERYTHING iTv can do plus it has a DVD player, a hard drive AND it can play games.

The hardware costs to get a movie through iTunes are 0, because you're very likely to already have a computer capable of running iTunes.

The hardware costs to get a movie through Xbox Marketplace are $299, because you're much less likely to already have an Xbox.

With iTunes, you already have an integrated backup solution. You also already have the ability to use it on your iPods, if you have any. You can also share it across five different computers in your house. For $299, you can add the ability to play it in your living room, and if that's too much for you, you can get some audio and video cabling and do it for near zero by hooking up your computer to your TV, especially if you have a Mac mini.

I'm not gonna get into rental vs. purchase, since they're different model; one is not "better" than the other. Matter of preference. I'd like iTunes to offer both options.
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post #114 of 125
11/11/06 at 2:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

The hardware costs to get a movie through iTunes are 0, because you're very likely to already have a computer capable of running iTunes.

The hardware costs to get a movie through Xbox Marketplace are $299, because you're much less likely to already have an Xbox.

With iTunes, you already have an integrated backup solution. You also already have the ability to use it on your iPods, if you have any. You can also share it across five different computers in your house. For $299, you can add the ability to play it in your living room, and if that's too much for you, you can get some audio and video cabling and do it for near zero by hooking up your computer to your TV, especially if you have a Mac mini.

I'm not gonna get into rental vs. purchase, since they're different model; one is not "better" than the other. Matter of preference. I'd like iTunes to offer both options.

Everything you said regarding iTunes applies equally to Windows, except the $299 living-room player is already here for Windows, and it has the option to download its own TV shows and movies independent of any computer.
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post #115 of 125
11/11/06 at 2:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnDunn

Everything you said regarding iTunes applies equally to Windows,

Which is precisely why I said "computer", not "Mac".

Quote:
except the $299 living-room player is already here for Windows, and it has the option to download its own TV shows and movies independent of any computer.

No, it's not an option; it's a requirement.
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post #116 of 125
11/11/06 at 4:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Abster2core

Most Xbox's are controlled by the kids. Most families that just have one Xbox per household, if any. Most Xbox's are hooked up to the kid's TV. Not the giant screen or the 42" plasma in the family room. For mom or dad to have to ask young Johnny for his Xbox to watch a movie will undoubtedly create delay, conflict or consternation hooking, unhooking and rehooking.

I don't know how it is where you're living but I recall from a survey that the average age of the best local gaming magazine's readership (not subscriptors but readers) was over 20. In a lot of households that do have the 360, the main user of the 360 also pays the rent. Especially since it's a new and expensive console. Cheap consoles for kids FTW.

From my personal perspective, I am not much in touch with kids but I have seen them play PC's, maybe less consoles. People I know between 20-25 have a steady supply of DS, PSP, GC and PS2, so far one has the 360 I believe - he just wants the latest mainstream games, no matter which console as long it's next gen - and of course PC gaming. Everybody games with PC's. Well, not me nowadays. Played a little WoW on the iBook but I felt the best content (combat versus other players) was inaccessible with such a weak computer.
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post #117 of 125
11/11/06 at 6:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Which is precisely why I said "computer", not "Mac".



No, it's not an option; it's a requirement.

I meant that everything you said with regard to iTunes also applies to Windows Media Center.

And you do not have to use the 360 to download shows. You can download them from services like MovieLink or Cinemanow via your PC and watch them on your 360.
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post #118 of 125
11/11/06 at 7:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by UnnDunn

And you do not have to use the 360 to download shows. You can download them from services like MovieLink or Cinemanow via your PC and watch them on your 360.

I thought this thread was about comparing Marketplace and iTunes.
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post #119 of 125
11/11/06 at 8:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

I thought this thread was about comparing Marketplace and iTunes.

Yea. Microsoft really blew it with the Zune Marketplace.

That got me thinking... where did that phrase come from...

like blew it... as in blow up

or like blew it as in blow job?

...Sucks is pretty obvious, but I was wondering if the blew it was the same logic. Or I suppose "that blows" could be taken as a different saying from "blew it"
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post #120 of 125
11/11/06 at 10:37pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gon

I don't know how it is where you're living but I recall from a survey that the average age of the best local gaming magazine's readership (not subscriptors but readers) was over 20. In a lot of households that do have the 360, the main user of the 360 also pays the rent. Especially since it's a new and expensive console. Cheap consoles for kids FTW.

Most kids who play video games won't read magazines or take surveys.
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