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Congratulations to the Dems

post #1 of 196
Thread Starter 
Let me be the first to say it. Now:

1. Please don't waste time impeaching Bush. You'll look dumb.

2. Please don't raise taxes...even on the "rich." You'll hurt the economy.

3. Please deal with immigration. Please.

4. Please don't investigate everyone under the sun and then investigate the investigators who investigated in the first place.

5. Please don't pull us out of Iraq before the end of next year.


and most imporantly:

Thank God we don't have to watch anymore stupid goddamned ads!

I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #2 of 196
2. Uh... the middle class/working class drive the economy on which the rich feed. there is some room for trimming at the top...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #3 of 196
I agree about the ads. Any other NC ers want to punch the TeeVee when the Vernon ads come on?
post #4 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar

2. Uh... the middle class/working class drive the economy on which the rich feed. there is some room for trimming at the top...

Not according to historical precedent. Trickle down tax cuts do work. Kennedy proved it. Reagan proved it. Bsuh proved it. Revenue has gone up dramatically. The rich create jobs and invest their capital in the market.

That said, I would not oppose an "uber wealthy" tax on those making over 1,000,000 a year, say an addtional 1% of earnings over that amount, so long as the revenue was dedicated to certain programs.
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #5 of 196
Thread Starter 
Oh, and I have to laugh at ABC:

http://abcnews.go.com/

Revolution? hahaha.


I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #6 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Not according to historical precedent. Trickle down tax cuts do work. Kennedy proved it. Reagan proved it. Bsuh proved it. Revenue has gone up dramatically. The rich create jobs and invest their capital in the market.

That said, I would not oppose an "uber wealthy" tax on those making over 1,000,000 a year, say an addtional 1% of earnings over that amount, so long as the revenue was dedicated to certain programs.

Tax cuts on CORPORATIONS might create jobs. On an individual level, not so much.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #7 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hardeeharhar

Tax cuts on CORPORATIONS might create jobs. On an individual level, not so much.


That makes sense on the surface, but in reality the economy benefits from tax cuts like were enacted in the early 60's, 80's and 2000's. The numbers don't lie. Trickle down seems as if it's only helping the rich, but in reality the rising tide raises all ships.
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post #8 of 196
That is completely unproven -- and in fact, there is more evidence critical of that suggestion than there is in support of it.
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #9 of 196
Meh.

Who believes in supply-side economics?
post #10 of 196
Evidently SDW does...
"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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"In a republic, voters may vote for the leaders they want, but they get the leaders they deserve."
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post #11 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Let me be the first to say it. Now:

That is a very sporting and charitable response, as obvously you are a strong GOP supporter...

Quote:
1. Please don't waste time impeaching Bush. You'll look dumb.

''

Pelosi has already stated her intentions on impeachment. I don't think anyone's going to try to impeach him during the remainder of his term. After January, 2008, though, there will be some very interesting developments... Watch this space

Quote:
2. Please don't raise taxes...even on the "rich." You'll hurt the economy.

To impose "supertax" on the very wealthiest isn't going to make any difference. Many very very wealthy people go to great lengths in paying teams of attorneys and tax accountants to set up schemes to legally avoid large tax bills. A relative of mine works for one such company, and he's described some of these schemes which are incredible and totally befuddling in their legal and technical complexity.

Quote:
3. Please deal with immigration. Please.

Agreed 100%. Please, please deal with immigration, and do it properly. Rather than some harebrained scheme like building a fence, or border militias like the "minutemen", or prioritizing the busting of those unfortunate folk who are just trying to earn some money for their families, have a go at the crooks in business who knowingly employ illegal immigrants, and bring them to account, and also those who advertise services and jobs for illegal immigrants on the border. Believe me, when a few CEOs do a month or two in jail, and their firms, as a result, stop employing illegals, the flood of immigrants will dry up to a trickle. You don't fix a broken dam by trying to plug the holes on the downstream side.. you fix it at the source. Also, lets put some major pressure, financial and diplomatic, on the Mexican Government... their policies are partially responsible for the current and ongoing invasion of the US.

Quote:
4. Please don't investigate everyone under the sun and then investigate the investigators who investigated in the first place.

There are two appalling outrages that need investigating now, and the perps brought to justice.
First was the debacle that was the response to Hurricane Katrina. Michael Chertoff should have been SO FIRED for his rank incompetence. No, as you were: he should be on trial for criminal negligence in the 2nd worst federal fvck up in US history.

The other incident, (which will probably end up as an even more lasting disaster than Katrina) which must be investigated with no expense spared, is the widespread sickness resulting from 9/11 victims, from breathing in the toxic dust and smoke that enveloped New York for up to 2 months following the attacks. Cheney's office should be a prime target in the probe... as that was where the order to block (and deliberately distort) the EPA's report and analysis on the toxicity of the dust and the extreme dangers of breathing in the fumes, originated. It has been estimated that as a result of this criminal coverup, the death toll from mesothelial cancers, asbestosis and other chronic and fatal conditions resulting from people not taking adequate precautions (because they were told that "the air is safe to breathe and the water is safe to drink", within the next decade and a half will exceed the actual death toll (2947) by a factor of perhaps 5 times.

Quote:
5. Please don't pull us out of Iraq before the end of next year.

As a long term trend, things are going downhill in Iraq. It will be easier on Iraq, and the M.E. in general to pull them out now, rather than wait 18 months.

Quote:
and most imporantly:

Thank God we don't have to watch anymore stupid goddamned ads!

Another "I concur 100% "..
"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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"We've never made the case, or argued the case that somehow Osama bin Laden was directly involved in 9/11. That evidence has never been forthcoming". VP Cheney, 3/29/2006. Interview by Tony Snow
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post #12 of 196
6. Please increase the value of our currency which BushCo and his cronies have devalued over the last couple of years.

I don't make enough to benefit from any kind of tax cuts and I don't have children. I do feel it right in the *pocket* every time I go to an ATM and it costs me $330 to withdraw KW300,000 which used to cost me $290 when I first moved to Korea 4 years ago.
post #13 of 196
I saw congratulations to the Democrats who it appears will take both houses, probably by at least one seat in the Senate.

I hope the Democrats take this as a mandate for a revolution and work as hard as possible to push their agenda through the Congress.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #14 of 196
Indeed. Impeaching Bush will do no good, we'd end up with Cheney. That's far worse.
post #15 of 196
Yep.

Cheney - Best Presidential Shield since Dan Quayle!
eye
bee
BEE
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eye
bee
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post #16 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by MajorMatt

Indeed. Impeaching Bush will do no good, we'd end up with Cheney. That's far worse.

So we convict Cheney then impeach Bush!

And guess who becomes president!?

Nancy Pelosi!!!!
post #17 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonton

So we convict Cheney then impeach Bush!

And guess who becomes president!?

Nancy Pelosi!!!!

Yeah, that would be greeeattt.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #18 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Yeah, that would be greeeattt.



Actually, like Nixon, they would just replace the VP first, with someone like Santorum!

So that after the impeachment we could all say ...

All hail Our Fearless Leader:

President Santorum

Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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Every eye fixed itself upon him; with parted lips and bated breath the audience hung upon his words, taking no note of time, rapt in the ghastly fascinations of the tale. NOT!
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post #19 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

I hope the Democrats take this as a mandate for a revolution and work as hard as possible to push their agenda through the Congress.

Wait. I thought Democrats didn't have a plan.
Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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Gangs are not seen as legitimate, because they don't have control over public schools.
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post #20 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Let me be the first to say it. Now:

1. Please don't waste time impeaching Bush. You'll look dumb.

2. Please don't raise taxes...even on the "rich." You'll hurt the economy.

3. Please deal with immigration. Please.

4. Please don't investigate everyone under the sun and then investigate the investigators who investigated in the first place.

5. Please don't pull us out of Iraq before the end of next year.


and most imporantly:

Thank God we don't have to watch anymore stupid goddamned ads!



And here I was going to congratulate you for good sportsmanship!

That was a little backhanded wasn't it?
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #21 of 196
Personally I am glad the D's have the House. I hope they win the Senate as well (sounds like a real possibility). Two main reasons:

1. Divided government is always good. The next best thing to much smaller, less intrusive government, is divided, even grid-locked government. Let's hope that this keeps the federal government so locked up it cannot get anything accomplished.

2. With the D's in control of the House and (possibly) the Senate, perhaps they will put to rest all of the whining, weeping, gnashing of teeth and hand-wringing. Of course now they have to actually govern...so we'll see how that goes...but at least there will be fewer excuses.

Finally, let's be clear about something in all of this...the grand expectations of change and revolution are quite likely unfounded. As Noam Chomsky (I believe) once said, we don't really have two parties in the United States but, rather, two branches of the same party (QUOTE: "There are two parties, so-called, but they're really factions of the same party, the Business Party. Both represent some range of business interests. In fact, they can change their positions 180 degrees, and nobody even notices.") both bent on obtaining, retaining and exercising power. But perhaps Pete Townshend said it best: "Meet the new boss, same as the old boss."
post #22 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by midwinter

Wait. I thought Democrats didn't have a plan.

I thought at least one person would get the irony.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #23 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

And here I was going to congratulate you for good sportsmanship!

That was a little backhanded wasn't it?

No, I wasn't trying to be actually. I really hope they do/don't do the above as listed.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #24 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

I thought at least one person would get the irony.

Nick

I knew it all along.

And I didn't have to use ESP!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #25 of 196
jimmac, I may not be right 100% of the time, but you sir are the proverbial clock that happens to tell the correct time twice a day.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #26 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

jimmac, I may not be right 100% of the time, but you sir are the proverbial clock that happens to tell the correct time twice a day.

Nick

Sorry sir but I was more than right on this time!

Hows that ESP?

Ps.

Most of these votes were a vote against Bush and a republican presidency.
Just watch how right I am about the next election!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #27 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

Sorry sir but I was more than right on this time!

Hows that ESP?

Ps.

Most of these votes were a vote against Bush and a republican presidency.
Just watch how right I am about the next election!

Oh, you're probably right to an extent. But I wouldn't count on 2008. I will all but gurarantee a Republican win. It's going to be McCain and either Rice or Guiliani. Mark my words.

BTW, it's not hard to be right when every pundit in the country says the same thing. The conservatives pundits were all calling for this too. It wasn't a surprise.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #28 of 196
I'm surprised the polls were nearly dead-on. That's unusual.

In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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In our desire to impose form on the world we have lost the capacity to see the form that is there;
and in that lies not liberation but alienation, the cutting off from things as they really are. --...

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post #29 of 196
Nice predictions Trumpet. Your predictions are as good as yor financial advice.
post #30 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

Sorry sir but I was more than right on this time!

Hows that ESP?

Ps.

Most of these votes were a vote against Bush and a republican presidency.
Just watch how right I am about the next election!

I'll be watching buddy.

BTW, my ESP is projecting a donation to kiva.org soon on behalf of BRussell.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilsch

Nice predictions Trumpet. Your predictions are as good as yor financial advice.

No problem with your statement. My financial advice has me in a very good position. No one is correct 100% of the time. I'll get ya the next time though.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #31 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Oh, you're probably right to an extent. But I wouldn't count on 2008. I will all but gurarantee a Republican win. It's going to be McCain and either Rice or Guiliani. Mark my words.

BTW, it's not hard to be right when every pundit in the country says the same thing. The conservatives pundits were all calling for this too. It wasn't a surprise.

I used to like McCain until he abandoned his values. Significant personal values at that. I'd have a hard time voting for someone who'd compromise himself in such a fashion- and up until a few years ago I'd have casted a vote for him in 2008. IMO, McCain has become to republicans what Kerry has become to democrats.
post #32 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Oh, you're probably right to an extent. But I wouldn't count on 2008. I will all but gurarantee a Republican win. It's going to be McCain and either Rice or Guiliani. Mark my words.

You guys need fresh faces.
post #33 of 196
I agree. I'd love to see Bill Richardson versus Mike Huckabee.

Nick

"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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"During times of universal deceit, telling the truth becomes a revolutionary act." -George Orwell

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post #34 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by trumptman

I'll be watching buddy.

BTW, my ESP is projecting a donation to kiva.org soon on behalf of BRussell.



No problem with your statement. My financial advice has me in a very good position. No one is correct 100% of the time. I'll get ya the next time though.

Nick


We'll see!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #35 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by SDW2001

Oh, you're probably right to an extent. But I wouldn't count on 2008. I will all but gurarantee a Republican win. It's going to be McCain and either Rice or Guiliani. Mark my words.

BTW, it's not hard to be right when every pundit in the country says the same thing. The conservatives pundits were all calling for this too. It wasn't a surprise.

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one ( unless you're fond of the color blue that is )!
Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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Without the need for difference or a need to always follow the herd breeds complacency, mediocrity, and a lack of imagination
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post #36 of 196
I honestly want to see a Schwarzennegar Republican win in 2008...someone who will actually work together with the other side and end all this nonsensical bickering and ra ra team attitude that prevails in this country.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #37 of 196
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmac

I wouldn't hold your breath on that one ( unless you're fond of the color blue that is )!

Huh? The Democrats have some problems and the Republicans have major advantages:

First, McCain and Guiliani are strong candidates. McCain is right where most of the electorate is politically, and is generally a popular guy. He waited for his turn, and it's coming. Guiliani is socially pretty liberal, and very popular in a huge blue state...Hillary's state. This, IMO, is the best choice for the Republicans. Rice might work, but she'll be tarnished by the war and Bush Admin fatigue.

The Dems still have a serious problem. Their party's power base (read: money) comes from the hard left. The hard left controls the party's purse strings and dominates the House and Senate leadership. However, the electorate is right of center. They're not where Santorum and Bill Frist are, but they're still right of center. To win, the Dems need to nominate a moderate. This is why Hillary has spent six years trying to bridge the gap and move to the center. At heart she is a far left as they get, but she's politically savvy enough to know she's not going to win like that. The last liberal President we had was Jimmy Carter. Mondale and Dukakis were slaughtered running as liberals, and Clinton ran as "new Democrat." The Clinton people don't run the party anymore though. Pelosi, Reid, Kerry, Schumer, Dean, Rangle and Conyers do.

Let's look at the candidates. Hillary will face huge conservative opposition and opposition among men. Her numbers among white men will be laughable. But that's not the problem. Hillary's real problem is with women...yes, women. The first female President is going to need 75% (perhaps) of the female vote to win. With her disapproval in the 40s amongst women, she has a serious problem.

Kerry is finished, this much we know. Dean is finished too. Clark won't catch on, just as he didn't last time. John Edwards is too much of a pretty boy (not a technical analysis I know, but it's true). Barack Obama hasn't done anything worth mentioning. And let's face it, the name is a killer for him. Bill Richardson comes across as sloppy, and Evan Bayh is too unknown.

That leaves us with Mark Warner and perhaps, just perhaps Ed Rendell, though I think he comes across as too unpolished as well.

Now I'm leaving out one, and you know who that is. It's my prediction that Al "ManBearPig" Gore is going to run again. I think he has a chance of beating McCain if he picks the right running mate and runs a better campaign. Pair him up with Obama or Warner, maybe even Hillary and you have a good ticket. Gore is pretty "left" too, but he does care about US business interests and knows how to look like a centrist. He'll also tackle global warming head on...whether it needs to be tackled or not.

Nominating Hillary would be a disaster in my opinion. The only way she can win would be like her husband did. If a third party candidate gets thrown in and splits the fiscal conservative vote, she's got a good shot.

Just my take.
I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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I can only please one person per day.  Today is not your day.  Tomorrow doesn't look good either.  
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post #38 of 196
So you think Gore can pull a Nixon.

 

“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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“The nitrogen in our DNA, the calcium in our teeth, the iron in our blood, the carbon in our apple pies were made in the interiors of collapsing stars. We are made of starstuff.” 
-Sagan
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post #39 of 196
I for one welcome our new Democrat Overlords!

Oh, wait...

Well, at least we don't have a one-party system for the foreseeable future. Hopefully this will result in some changes in Bush Co.'s mismanagement of the country, the war and our civil liberties...

Though in the long term I agree with the view that the Democrats and Republicans are variations on a theme. To paraphrase Futurama, do you want to vote for John Jackson, or Jack Johnson in 2008?
You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
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You need skeptics, especially when the science gets very big and monolithic. -James Lovelock
The Story of Stuff
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post #40 of 196
Quote:
Originally Posted by iPoster

Though in the long term I agree with the view that the Democrats and Republicans are variations on a theme. To paraphrase Futurama, do you want to vote for John Jackson, or Jack Johnson in 2008?

I just don't buy this "they're all the same" (or nearly the same) meme.

It is highly, highly unlikely that Gore or Kerry would have gotten us into the Iraq war. And yes, I know a lot of Democrats authorized Bush to have the option, but that's very far from the same thing as deciding to do go into that war themselves. Even if you are kind, and generously discount that Bush willingly lied about or cherry-picked the evidence for WMD, only Bush's neocon-skewed perspective would have resulted in the environment where the available data would have been become as distorted as it did. Bush and his admin had been looking for an excuse to invade Iraq from day one of Bush's Presidency. They wanted this war, and were looking for any justification they could find to make it happen.

Yes, Republicans and Democrats both do a lot of cozying up to big business and monied interests. For those who look at the world through Socialist-colored glasses, that seems to be enough to declare them all "the same". But in my book, there's a HUGE difference between a big business suck-up who gets us into a TRILLION dollar war, with thousands of American casualties, tens to hundreds of thousands of foreign casualties, which fosters international animosity toward the US and actually promotes the terrorism is was supposed to combat, and a big business suck-up who doesn't do this.

There are plenty of other MAJOR differences between Democrats and Republicans, but that one single example should be more than enough reason to shatter any imagined great similarity between the two parties, and the differing consequences of putting one party or the other into power. I can't assure you we would be living in a better world right now if Gore had won in 2000, but I can say with great certainty say that we'd be living in a very different world right.

As far as I'm concerned, the "they're all the same" attitude is little more than a convenient excuse for disinterest, or an easy way to evince a world-wearly cynicism that one hopes will be read as studied wisdom, when all it really takes to say that is apathy and ignorance.
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Peter came out and gave us medals
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We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
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