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Apple strengthens Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard with new build

post #1 of 152
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Apple Computer this week delivered to developers Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build 9A303, the latest in an extremely limited series of pre-release builds of its next-generation operating system.

People familiar with the new distribution of the software, labeled Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build 9A303, say one of its primary objectives of the release is to knock out several "performance related bugs" that were present in build 9A283.

The latest build, those same people say, also reduces hangs in the Mac OS X Leopard Finder caused by a network connectivity issue and delivers several performance enhancements to the initial version of Time Machine.

Since seeding build 9A283 in mid-Oct., Apple has further implemented fixes that address issues with Safari's bug reporting feature as well as repair a glitch that has been impeding the use of Timbuktu and Eudora due to crashes on launch.

Those familiar with the build 9A303 say the Cupertino, Calif.-based Mac maker continues to list well over a dozen known issues with Leopard, including file and QuickTime errors in iChat, iDisk synching failures and printing issues with HP raster printers.

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build 9A303 also contains problems where items deleted in the trash may not disappear until a restart, Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros won't recognize their AirPort cards, and logins initially fail after enabling FileVault protection on an account.

Apple has maintained that it will be ready to release Leopard sometime during the first half of 2007.
post #2 of 152
I am starting to believe they are not going to FFTF as in: new Finder.
crap.
post #3 of 152
Quote:
Core 2 Duo MacBook Pros won't recognize their AirPort cards

Probably just a matter of copying the newer Atheros driver from the custom MBP C2D 10.4.7+ build.
post #4 of 152
I don't think they will R (replace) the Finder, but hopefully they will replace enough to (F) fix it!

As of Tiger, Finder's pretty good--but still not quite there: it doesn't update file details instantly in the background when I save/change a file in another app.

I think Apple will reveal all the remaining Leopard features in January at MWSF, thus allowing the whole thing to go out for testing without fear of leaks.
post #5 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

Mac OS X 10.5 Leopard build 9A303 also contains problems where items deleted in the trash may note disappears until a restart...

I had to read this sentence about 5 times before I figured out that you meant "may NOT disappear", at least that's the best I could do with it.

Always good news to see things progressing. My big question is about these so called "top-secret" features. I wonder how many of us are in the "Steve was blowing smoke" camp vs. the " really impressive features yet to be revealed" camp. I'm still unsure what I think, but I'm leaning towards the opinion that most of the imressive features have already been revealed, with 1 or 2 new notable features yet to be revealed, but nothing game changing.
post #6 of 152
And people want Apple to release Leopard at Mac World
I guess I'm one of the few that actually believed that it would be ready and released in spring!

But anyways it good to hear Apple is squashing these bugs quickly and hopefully we will have an awesome Leopard in Spring
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post #7 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdj21ya

I had to read this sentence about 5 times before I figured out that you meant "may NOT disappear", at least that's the best I could do with it.

Always good news to see things progressing. My big question is about these so called "top-secret" features. I wonder how many of us are in the "Steve was blowing smoke" camp vs. the " really impressive features yet to be revealed" camp. I'm still unsure what I think, but I'm leaning towards the opinion that most of the imressive features have already been revealed, with 1 or 2 new notable features yet to be revealed, but nothing game changing.

I think Im somewhere in the middle. Im expecting a few new features that will really make it worth the money and make it a really outstanding OS (compared to tiger. not to vista. im sure xp will be upstaging vista )
post #8 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caribou Killa

I think Im somewhere in the middle. Im expecting a few new features that will really make it worth the money and make it a really outstanding OS (compared to tiger. not to vista. im sure xp will be upstaging vista )

I certainly plan to stick with XP for a while for my Windows needs. I don't doubt I'll be using Leopard long before any computer I deal with is running Vista.
post #9 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth_Apple

And people want Apple to release Leopard at Mac World
I guess I'm one of the few that actually believed that it would be ready and released in spring!

But anyways it good to hear Apple is squashing these bugs quickly and hopefully we will have an awesome Leopard in Spring

I hope they take there time and produce a decent quality product, tiger is fine for now and is leagues ahead of anything else.

They dont want to take a page from Microsoft's page and release a buggy product!
post #10 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by bdj21ya

I certainly plan to stick with XP for a while for my Windows needs. I don't doubt I'll be using Leopard long before any computer I deal with is running Vista.

I will use Leopard as my primary the minute it comes out. As for my secondary PC, I will er, um, delete windows and "evaluate" vista on it just for kicks

I can't wait to throw XP in the trash.
post #11 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshopkins

I hope they take there time and produce a decent quality product, tiger is fine for now and is leagues ahead of anything else.

They dont want to take a page from Microsoft's page and release a buggy product!

Like 10.4?
post #12 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Like 10.4?

Yeah hopefully they can learn from that
post #13 of 152
I'm going to let Mel test Leopard for me before I buy it!
post #14 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by dacloo

I am starting to believe they are not going to FFTF as in: new Finder.
crap.

i forgot... FFTF is something like fuck the finder, but what was it exactly

also, what do you all think, is a BRAND new finder one of the "Top Secret" features?

Finder MUST be not repaired but replaced. It gets the job done, but its archaic and slow...
post #15 of 152
"Fix the fucking Finder" (it's FTFF, not FFTF). Wikipedia used to have an article on it but its asinine policies had it removed
post #16 of 152
well, they need .something. to make this a major OS release because nothing I see makes it more than a point release. Tiger doesn't have much over panther, at least from a user perspective. [Tiger] Spotlight, widgets, automator...do not make for a major release, imho. Sure there is junk under the hood, but ...whoopie, I don't see it in use. So Leopard with Time Machine isn't much at all.

They need to ramp this up a notch to be a real overhaul otherwise its just a ho-hum, here's my $129. k, Thanks Steve-o.
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post #17 of 152
Why such minor changes from build to build? That's what happens just before release. Unless the real development work is still being kept secret?
post #18 of 152
I remember that Steve Jobs said that not all features of Leopard were being shown because they did not want MS to copy. But exactly how stable are they going to be if testers have not tested them. Does not sound like a great plan... Still going to buy it when it comes out though. hehe.
post #19 of 152
Quote:
They need to ramp this up a notch to be a real overhaul otherwise its just a ho-hum, here's my $129.

One thing that's been forgotten is Quartz 2D Extreme, which has yet to be enabled, because it's still too buggy in Tiger, AFAIK.

Remember this chart? :-)
post #20 of 152
What exactly is wrong with the Finder?

I am fairly new to the Mac (about three years of usage) but haven't encountered any problems with it this far. But since the problems even have their own acronym they must be pretty major.
post #21 of 152
Leopard seems like a huge release already, to me--big changes under the hood, and high-visiblity features too, but nobody needs to buy it if they don't want. If people expect a complete overhaul of an OS every 2 years, that would actually be a BAD thing in my book.

(Also, it's $99 at Amazon generally. Don't pay $129!)
post #22 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrikmk

One thing that's been forgotten is Quartz 2D Extreme, which has yet to be enabled, because it's still too buggy in Tiger, AFAIK.

Remember this chart? :-)

Based on that graph, I hope they get it working for 10.5.

- Mark
post #23 of 152
My (optimistic) prediction: with Vista officially "released" (to some people), we'll see a new Finder at MacWorld. With a "Spring" release, there will still be some time to beta test it. Think about it: if a new Finder showed up in one of these dev builds, pictures would be leaked immediately, and Steve wouldn't have anything new about Leopard to show at MacWorld.

Now, how much is changing about Finder is anybody's guess. Let's hope they at least kill the brushed metal .
post #24 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH

I remember that Steve Jobs said that not all features of Leopard were being shown because they did not want MS to copy. But exactly how stable are they going to be if testers have not tested them. Does not sound like a great plan... Still going to buy it when it comes out though. hehe.

Isnt vista basically finished now anyway, i know the consumer version wont be out until the end of Jan 07 but i think they have enough problems as it is without trying to add more stuff to it.

A dozen or so bugs, that isnt that many especially when compared to Vista at the same stage of development. They could easily get this finished by years out.
post #25 of 152
From the list of remaining bugs it appears to me that Apple has done a lot of work on Leopard - taking advantage of the extended development time they have had over the previous versions.

Besides the new eye candy type features I can see a lot of work on Steve J's favorite goals - speed, speed and more speed. That would probably almost everything in OS X was given a full review and improved when possible.

Throw in a few new consumer oriented apps that we haven't guessed and a performance level that kicks Vista all over the place and Leopard is going to be looking pretty good, Apple's going to get my money for a Family Pack - with educational discount of course!
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post #26 of 152
There is a NEW FINDER coming to leopard. It will be the last thing put in. I've personally seen builds on Apple campus with the new finder in progress. Yes everything will have a unified look. And the new finder is much more meta browsing than the old one.

Even the current leopard builds have a "new finder" it's just not a new look, but the finder has been completely re-written. Apple won't release builds with the new finder until well after Vista is released
post #27 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac

I'm going to let Mel test Leopard for me before I buy it!

I do have two machines for that. 8)
post #28 of 152
Quote:
Like 10.4?

Yeah hopefully they can learn from that

Without a doubt there will be plenty of complaining and teeth gnashing when Leopard is first released.

That will eventually become "this the most advanced OS ever".

The same happened with 10.4, 10.3, 10.2.............
post #29 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by TenoBell

Without a doubt there will be plenty of complaining and teeth gnashing when Leopard is first released.

That will eventually become "this the most advanced OS ever".

The same happened with 10.4, 10.3, 10.2.............

But, hopefully Vista won't lead to an artificially premature release date as happened with 10.4, because of the Intel announcement that Dev Conf, where they didn't want the distraction of introducing the upgrade at the same time.
post #30 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by ALPICH

I remember that Steve Jobs said that not all features of Leopard were being shown because they did not want MS to copy. But exactly how stable are they going to be if testers have not tested them. Does not sound like a great plan... Still going to buy it when it comes out though. hehe.

Most of the bugs that are reported, are reported in house. Apple has a very large and very good QA team. The main reason they pre-release these builds is for last minute checking on the bug fixes and to develop software for the new OS. Do you really think people would PAY apple 500 dollars just to test their OS for them? Ok well maybe some people do. But most REAL QA testers make 65-120k a year. Apple doesn't rely on distributing their builds to developers for stability.

If there is something earth shattering to be released / announced later... I'm sure apple is testing the hell out of it. Apple has all the hardware in the world. They have all the testers... I wouldn't worry about the announced parts not working. Though it's always possible.

I think if Apple added a few things to finder windows like sorting in columns and live updating, maybe texture editing. It would quench a lot of user's thirst. Not many changes for some satisfactory. It at least shows apple knows we want the finder fixed. Com'mon!

 

 

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post #31 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandG

What exactly is wrong with the Finder?

I am fairly new to the Mac (about three years of usage) but haven't encountered any problems with it this far. But since the problems even have their own acronym they must be pretty major.

My personal take on the issues can be found here and here, from this thread and this thread.
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post #32 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by henrikmk

One thing that's been forgotten is Quartz 2D Extreme, which has yet to be enabled, because it's still too buggy in Tiger, AFAIK.

Remember this chart? :-)

I'm pretty sure Quartz 2d Extreme was enabled with tiger. You needed to meet the minimum video card requirements for it though. You know that splash effect you get when drop your widgets in your dashboard??? That's q2e. If you don't meet the minimum requirements for it, it is then disabled. I think a nvidia 5200 / ati 9600 is the absolute lowest you can go on the cards for it to be enabled. While I was at wwdc 04 apple was pushing q2e extremely hard. I seriously doubt they disabled the whole thing. I went to 4 sessions just on q2e / core image (core image needs q2e libraries to work).

 

 

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post #33 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenaustus

From the list of remaining bugs it appears to me that Apple has done a lot of work on Leopard

Do you really think that those are the only bugs left in Leopard?
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post #34 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647

I'm pretty sure Quartz 2d Extreme was enabled with tiger.

No, it wasn't. You are confusing "Quartz Extreme" (which is enabled and has been since 10.2) with "Quartz 2D Extreme" (which has never been enabled).
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post #35 of 152
Has anyone noticed that all these "problems" people say Apple's working on are really really benign? Like this "glitch" that's preventing Eudora from launching, what could be more minor? That just sounds like something someone's just made up. See - no notes of "fixed a deadlock" or a "kernel panic", or "a problem where disk cache may not be updated resulting in data loss". For a NEW system like Leopard those would be more likely problems. All these reports sound like Leopard's been in development for like 2 years already. Either that or Apple has magicians working instead of programmers.
post #36 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647

I'm pretty sure Quartz 2d Extreme was enabled with tiger.

No, Quartz 2D Extreme / Quartz GL was not enabled in Tiger. It can manually be enabled, but is highly buggy, even as of 10.4.8.

Quote:
You needed to meet the minimum video card requirements for it though. You know that splash effect you get when drop your widgets in your dashboard??? That's q2e.

No, that's hardware-accelerated Core Image.

Quote:
While I was at wwdc 04 apple was pushing q2e extremely hard. I seriously doubt they disabled the whole thing. I went to 4 sessions just on q2e / core image (core image needs q2e libraries to work).

No, Core Image does not rely on Quartz 2D Extreme, nor on Quartz Extreme.
post #37 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker


No, Core Image does not rely on Quartz 2D Extreme, nor on Quartz Extreme.

You are 100% wrong on that one. The most basic drawing functions use Quartz Extreme for output. Core Video and Core Image BOTH use the Quartz Extreme library

from apple's website:

Quote:
Core Video, joining Core Image in Mac OS X Tiger, delivers a modern foundation for video services, providing a bridge between QuickTime and the Quartz Core framework for hardware-accelerated video processing. In the same way that you can insert filters into the rendering pipeline for images, you can insert filters into the video display pipeline. Like Core Image, a Core Video pipeline reduces CPU load and increases performance for other operations. And Core Video allows developers to apply all the benefits of Core Image to videoblazingly fast performance of filters and effects, per-pixel accuracy and hardware scalability.

http://developer.apple.com/documenta...424-TP30000559
at the bottom of the above url...

Quote:
#Quartz 2D Reference Collection is a complete reference for the Quartz 2D data types that are also used in the Core Image framework.

# Quartz 2D Programming Guide contains information on how to create Quartz 2D images and color spaces, and how to perform 2D drawing with Quartz.

I may have been wrong about Quartz 2d Extreme being enabled, but I know for a fact that core image uses quartz extreme libraries. Been working with it for quite some time. You can revert to the parent object's functions if you need to, which are quartz objects.

 

 

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post #38 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647

You are 100% wrong on that one. The most basic drawing functions use Quartz Extreme for output. Core Video and Core Image BOTH use the Quartz Extreme library

It does not require Quartz Extreme. Core Image and Quartz Extreme share similar GPU requirements (the big requirement being ARB_fragment_program), but if proper GPU acceleration isn't available for an Image Unit, Core Image will fall back on the CPU, using SSE or Altivec depending on architecture.
post #39 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by emig647

You are 100% wrong on that one. The most basic drawing functions use Quartz Extreme for output. Core Video and Core Image BOTH use the Quartz Extreme library

from apple's website:



http://developer.apple.com/documenta...424-TP30000559
at the bottom of the above url...

You just quoted an entire block of text that mentions neither Quartz Extreme nor Quartz 2D Extreme / Quartz GL even once.

Quartz Extreme is not a library. It is an addition for Quartz for video-accelerated compositing.

There is no such thing as a graphics card that doesn't support Quartz Extreme yet does support Core Image; therefore all Macs that support GPU-accelerated Core Image also support Quartz Extreme, but that has no bearing at all on Core Image relying on Quartz Extreme; it does not.

Quote:
I may have been wrong about Quartz 2d Extreme being enabled, but I know for a fact that core image uses quartz extreme libraries.

I'd love to see those "Quartz Extreme libraries".

Quote:
Been working with it for quite some time. You can revert to the parent object's functions if you need to, which are quartz objects.



Right-o.
post #40 of 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by bonch

It does not require Quartz Extreme. Core Image and Quartz Extreme share similar GPU requirements (the big requirement being ARB_fragment_program), but if proper GPU acceleration isn't available for an Image Unit, Core Image will fall back on the CPU, using SSE or Altivec depending on architecture.

Read the developer docs I posted above. the Quartz classes / objects are parents to core image.

 

 

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