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Two of six airlines say there's no ink on iPod deal

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 
Apple Computer said Tuesday it had secured deals with Air France, Continental, Delta, Emirates, KLM and United to offer in-flight iPod connectivity, but two of those airlines have since disputed such claims.

The Cupertino, Calif.-based iPod maker, whose announcement coincided precisely with rival Microsoft Corp.'s official launch of Zune, said the in-flight iPod connectivity would be available to passengers beginning in mid 2007.

"It's way too early to confirm any such details," an Air France spokeswoman, referring to the iPod seat connectivity and a mid-2007 availability date, told Reuters.

Similarly, a spokesman for KLM told the media outlet there had only been "informal contacts" between Apple and the airline leading up to the announcement.

"It's very premature what Apple are saying," he said. "We have no idea if this is technically feasible, if it's financially viable, or it customers want it."

"At this moment, we have absolutely no intention of introducing it on board," the spokesman for KLM added.

In a statement to Reuters, Apple spokesman Tom Neumayr said: "Clearly we have had a miscommunication with AirFrance-KLM, but we are excited about announcing iPod integration with in-flight entertainment systems on Continental, Delta, Emirates and United today."

Ray Neidl, an analyst at Calyon Securitie, told Reuters that all airlines have been looking to upgrade their entertainment systems -- especially for longer distance flights -- and to expect more announcements from Apple on the subject in the near future.

"This is just one way of doing it," he said. "It's a nice add-on, makes customers happier, keeps them out of flight attendants' hair."
post #2 of 29
I wonder if Apple will pursue the source of the leak....
post #3 of 29
Well, according to AI, it was Apple themselves.

Quote:
Apple Computer said Tuesday it is teaming up with Air France, Continental, Delta, Emirates, KLM and United to deliver the first seamless integration between iPod and in-flight entertainment systems.
post #4 of 29
No leak, Apple put out the message they wanted. 1. They burst the Zune bubble on it's birthday, and 2. Applied pressure on the holdouts.

Two of the six came out immediately to deny it, so we know that 4 are on board (else they too would have denied it). That disputes KLMs concern that it is not technically feasible, and it tells them (and AirFrance) that their competitors will in fact be doing this, so they can either join the party or lose the sales.

This is the same as the 3Ghz G5. Steve gave the ultimatum to get it done or get out of the way.
-- Jason
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-- Jason
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post #5 of 29
What a surprise. The dutch and french don't want to support Apple. Same regions that gave Apple grief about their "MP3 player monopoly'.
post #6 of 29
Apple is in your home (Mac)
Apple is in your pocket (iPod)
Apple is in your ear (iPone)
Apple is in your living room (iTV)
Apple is in your plane (flyPod)
Apple is in your car (carPod)
post #7 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jasong

No leak, Apple put out the message they wanted.

I was actually joking

But Kudos to Apple for getting the iPod out there and stealing some zune-thunder....

Although, I think he should let the zune news get as public as possible..... most of it just seems negative...
post #8 of 29
Meh. Forget those carriers. I can't see myself flying Air France, but I had 1 KLM flight experience which was not too bad.

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

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post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by McHuman

What a surprise. The dutch and french don't want to support Apple. Same regions that gave Apple grief about their "MP3 player monopoly'.

I know thats wierd to me....

I never adopted the "anti-french" sentiment that was so prominent in 2004 (and even way back - in america at least), but their government sure is acting like a pill.... I understand that they (and the netherlands), don't want another microsoft cropping up, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.

I read part of the netherlands argument, some of it made sense (the part about the EULA being able to change without notice at any time), but for both the governments of France and the Netherlands to attempt to force Apple to open up their own DRM (okay the DRM they license), seems stupid.... government doesn't know jack about business (at least any governments that have running deficits don't)

(And I'm sorry for all my parenthetical staements)
post #10 of 29
Air France and KLM merged a while back. It was a bit disingenuous of Apple to count them as two separate airlines in the first place, anyway. Besides, it's not like AF/KLM categorically denied the deal, but more that they said it was not finalized. They may want to negociate better conditions, be debating internally whether to wait to support the universal docking connector instead of Apple's proprietary one... who knows. Regardless, to bring up anti-French sentiment over this is really ridiculous and immature.
post #11 of 29
... one should not forget that Air France recently bought KLM, so we are in fact talking about just one (!) airline. I do think that this Apple-airlines project is a very interesting one. A lot of passengers on airplanes have their iPods with them. And the larger the role of video-content on iPod will become (my 80 GB iPod is halfway filled with video), the more such a deal makes sense. Good move, Apple!
post #12 of 29
Oh apple what will you say next to stay the popular kid in school?
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post #13 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by McHuman

What a surprise. The dutch and french don't want to support Apple. Same regions that gave Apple grief about their "MP3 player monopoly'.

Perhaps you should leave your political agenda out of this.
post #14 of 29
I think this would be so cool to have iPod connectivity in planes. Most of the movies available are either quite old, or you already seen it. Plus, most of the time you wont know whats available until you browse the in-flight magazine (not sure if they post movie schedules on airlines' websites). With this method, you can watch whatever you want (although there might be some issues with watching pr0n in such public areas!)

Introducing the Boeing 747 - the latest iPod accessory.
post #15 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

Perhaps you should leave your political agenda out of this.

I don't think this is an empty 'political' comment. Both countries have shown anti-iPod/iTS sentiment and the lack of TV Shows/Movies on iTS outside of the US will be down to local legislation as much as the content owners disallowing (why wouldn't they want more coverage in Europe?). Apple uptake in Europe has been excellent but it's largely in the UK so KLM & AirFrance may not have as big a demand from customers as the US carriers.

I wonder how a Norwegian Airline would have reacted?

McD
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Why does somebody ask me a question, I can never understand, I can never provide the answer, but believe I can.
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post #16 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave

I don't think this is an empty 'political' comment. Both countries have shown anti-iPod/iTS sentiment and the lack of TV Shows/Movies on iTS outside of the US will be down to local legislation as much as the content owners disallowing (why wouldn't they want more coverage in Europe?). Apple uptake in Europe has been excellent but it's largely in the UK so KLM & AirFrance may not have as big a demand from customers as the US carriers.

I can't find the story that says that Netherlands has an anti-iPod/iTunes sentiment. They were considering an MP3 player tax, but that wasn't specifically against iPod or Apple. Are you sure you aren't confusing them with the Scandinavian countries that expressed concern about the fact that iTunes changes their contract terms after purchase?
post #17 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordJohnWhorfin

be debating internally whether to wait to support the universal docking connector instead of Apple's proprietary one...

There is a universal dock connector? I thought that attempt died. I haven't heard a peep out of that attempt since it was announced a year ago.
post #18 of 29
While they may not have decided to go ahead, these airlines should not be so defensive - I;m sure most people would LOVE to have iPod integration on an aeroplane! And being able to charge your pod would be the most desirable feature. Why are they so against moving forward? Flying sucks and anything that numbs the process has got to be good!
post #19 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave

I don't think this is an empty 'political' comment. Both countries have shown anti-iPod/iTS sentiment

I don't know of any Dutch "anti-iPod/iTS sentiment", and I would assume the vast majority of French people don't have one either.

More importantly, I doubt there is much overlap between the opinion of some French legislators and the opinion of management at Air France/KLM.

You're making yourself sound stupid when using "the French" and "the Dutch", as if they were one gobbled up piece of jell-o that just happens to be human, and, oh, despite being tens of millions of people, it also shares the exact same opinions on everything.
post #20 of 29
I don't know whether a majority of French people have anti-iPod sentiment, but the legislature obviously does - remember the bill they passed (then watered down) just a few months ago?

As far as the Netherlands, I think the poster is confusing them with Norway, which is heavily anti-iPod (at least the regulators are).

So give him a break - he's half-right...
post #21 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave

I don't think this is an empty 'political' comment. Both countries have shown anti-iPod/iTS sentiment and the lack of TV Shows/Movies on iTS outside of the US will be down to local legislation as much as the content owners disallowing (why wouldn't they want more coverage in Europe?). Apple uptake in Europe has been excellent but it's largely in the UK so KLM & AirFrance may not have as big a demand from customers as the US carriers.

I wonder how a Norwegian Airline would have reacted?

McD

Your ideas make about as much sense as saying that Apple and Microsoft shared the same agenda because they are both from the US.

You also said that iPods are only bought in the UK, so were did you get those statistics. Besides, you can use iTS downloads without owning an iPod (some would say videos are even better on the computer screen), actually you don't even need a Mac, because iTunes is available on Windows as well.

And the reason why Apple has not yet started selling videos in Europe? Simple:

1. Apple has always been a US-centric company. Many of their products services are better / cheaper /earlier in the US than in other contries or are better etc. in English than in other languages. If Apple cannot launch a product / service internationally they'll be fine as long as their home market is on board.

2. American TV and film studios sell a lot of content to European TV stations which may choose to protect their rights and broadcast that stuff years later than in the US, so there will be another party at the table. These stations have no interest in their material being diluted by the iTS.

3. Content owners still like to separate rights for different European countries in order to keep their cards close to their chests and potentially improve profits, while EU legislation tries to enforce a common market and stop customer discrimination. It's a thin rope for content owners.
post #22 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chucker

I don't know of any Dutch "anti-iPod/iTS sentiment", and I would assume the vast majority of French people don't have one either.

More importantly, I doubt there is much overlap between the opinion of some French legislators and the opinion of management at Air France/KLM.

You're making yourself sound stupid when using "the French" and "the Dutch", as if they were one gobbled up piece of jell-o that just happens to be human, and, oh, despite being tens of millions of people, it also shares the exact same opinions on everything.

I was talking about the 'country' as run by 'Governments' I wasn't referring to the people, I'm sure they'll make up their own minds. The anti-iPod/iTS sentiment refers to the Dutch proposed tax which was probably a bit heavy-handed on my part as it was 18months ago, levelled at all MP3 Players (though I assume the iPod was a front-runner) & I'm not sure if it amounted to anything (they're not known for their extreme legislation). The French Government's recent anti-iTS fiasco is all over the web, google it. That same French Government is, of course, the LARGEST Air France shareholder so it's unlikely NOT to have any bias on the aforementioned fiasco. Not jell-o, May-o! I only referred to both as it was their 'national' airlines (though merged in 2005) who refuted the alleged deal - when last I visited the people were indeed very different.

In order to sound less 'stupid' I'll just stick by you eh?

McD
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post #23 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by reverie

Your ideas make about as much sense as saying that Apple and Microsoft shared the same agenda because they are both from the US.

You also said that iPods are only bought in the UK, so were did you get those statistics. Besides, you can use iTS downloads without owning an iPod (some would say videos are even better on the computer screen), actually you don't even need a Mac, because iTunes is available on Windows as well.

And the reason why Apple has not yet started selling videos in Europe? Simple:

1. Apple has always been a US-centric company. Many of their products services are better / cheaper /earlier in the US than in other contries or are better etc. in English than in other languages. If Apple cannot launch a product / service internationally they'll be fine as long as their home market is on board.

2. American TV and film studios sell a lot of content to European TV stations which may choose to protect their rights and broadcast that stuff years later than in the US, so there will be another party at the table. These stations have no interest in their material being diluted by the iTS.

3. Content owners still like to separate rights for different European countries in order to keep their cards close to their chests and potentially improve profits, while EU legislation tries to enforce a common market and stop customer discrimination. It's a thin rope for content owners.

I didn't say that iPods are only bought in the UK - read it again. Apple sales in Europe are strongest in the UK (probably because we can also understand English, allegedly) our MP3 market is around twice that of France & six times that of the Netherlands - according to the Germans that is.

As for being fine by being US centric, the US is only the second largest international PC market & likely to be third in the near future, they'd better wake up before MS go euro/global with Zune & broader iTS coverage can only help. I'm sure the US networks/studios don't have a current deal for all 250 iTS TV shows in every country in Europe (there were only a dozen or so running in the UK when I was there a couple of months ago) you can't tell me they'd hold back if money was to be made. Something else must be holding them back & I reckon Govt licensing will be a factor.

McD
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post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

There is a universal dock connector? I thought that attempt died. I haven't heard a peep out of that attempt since it was announced a year ago.

Seems a bit stupid to make a system just for iPods, the airlines should really create a dock system that allows iPods and other mp3 players to be connected up.
post #25 of 29
from a Continental Airlines newsletter:
""
Continental Airlines customers to use inflight iPod services in late 2007
Continental Airlines is one of six major airlines that will integrate iPod into inflight entertainment systems. Apple Computer, Inc. issued a news release Tuesday announcing the news to deliver the first seamless integration between iPod and inflight entertainment systems.
Continental Airlines will begin offering customers iPod seat connections in late 2007. Customers will be able to power and charge their iPods during flight and allow the video content on their iPods to be viewed on their seatback displays.
""

wow... video onto the in-seat monitors ... and i was just thinking in terms of a charging port!
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post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameshopkins

Seems a bit stupid to make a system just for iPods, the airlines should really create a dock system that allows iPods and other mp3 players to be connected up.

I think there should be some sort of universal dock system, but I don't think the airlines are the ones that can be reasonably expected to set that standard, I think it's an invitation to problems. Failing that, while supporting the iPod dock is second best, but not a bad way to go because it is by far the most popular device of its type and it's just one connector and they can provide everything in a single cable with no monkeying with adapters. Failing even that, the airlines would have to provide A/V inputs & power supply, and the user would have to remember to bring those cables too.
post #27 of 29
Quote:
I think there should be some sort of universal dock system, but I don't think the airlines are the ones that can be reasonably expected to set that standard, I think it's an invitation to problems. Failing that, while supporting the iPod dock is second best, but not a bad way to go because it is by far the most popular device of its type and it's just one connector and they can provide everything in a single cable with no monkeying with adapters. Failing even that, the airlines would have to provide A/V inputs & power supply, and the user would have to remember to bring those cables too.

Of course the airlines should be using the ipod dock system because apple has 70% market share now. The dock is far better than anything else out there and really user friendly. Apple should license it and if the other manufactures don't want to pay licensing they can make adapters. In my mind at this point the ipod dock is standard now.
post #28 of 29
Why not just a USB plug in the armrest ? ... bring your own "iPod connector to USB" cable.
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From out there on the moon, international politics look so petty. You want to grab a politician by the scruff of the neck and drag him a quarter of a million miles out and say, "Look at that!" -...
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post #29 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingOfSomewhereHot

Why not just a USB plug in the armrest ? ... bring your own "iPod connector to USB" cable.

Wasn't this discussed earlier in this thread?
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