or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Palm CEO brushes off Apple cell phone threat
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Palm CEO brushes off Apple cell phone threat - Page 2

post #41 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by audiopollution

Considering the only changes that the Treo has offered in the past couple of years are a model without an antenna and a version that runs Windows Mobile, I'm sure they are.

It was a good phone. Three or four years ago.

I can't completely agree. My Treo 700p is a pretty good phone/PDA. It has good speed on the internet as well.

My only real complaint is the small crummy keyboard. why they (and others) use domed keys instead of dished keys is something I don't understand. But I use MobileWrite, which is better than Graffitti.

If Apple came out with an OS X based phone, and I could use it, I would buy it. Why? You know why!
post #42 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Pretty much all PDA Phones need WindowsMobile5 and above to be relevant... Whether it's Palm, HP, Dell, whatever. I tried a Windows Mobile Dell Axim in 2004. *sigh* Rubbish compared to the heydays of HandSpring and what an awesome though simple PDA it was. And the Windows Mobile crashing about once or three times a day, mmmm..... sucktastic.

Windows phones are truely bad.

I haven't yet seen one review of a Windows phone that was better than lukewarm. Most are downright negitive.
post #43 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Really? I thought they were dropping their Access Linux Platform licence at the end of the year and forking PalmOS v5 (again) because Access haven't hit their development milestones.

If there's an example of a company that had a market pretty much to itself and then totally blew it all by themselves then Palm is it. Their OS was ok back in 1999 but needed a modern replacement so they buy the hottest OS company going - Be - badly manage their hardware, screw up the OS through mismanagement and piss off most of their technical staff who all go back to Apple.

Meanwhile they split the company, give each half of it a stupid name, sell their remaining OS to a browser company with a browser nobody uses or cares for and then buy back their own company name. And then they launch Palm devices running Windows!

Really Ed, it's not the 'PC guys' who don't get it.

Yeah, it's sad. I'm holding on to mine as long as I can.
post #44 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparSteve

Its possible that he is just brushing off Apple, but it seems that corporate executives (and politicians) all spin PR propaganda and FUD to support their agenda or best interests, even though they know its not the truth. They claim that everything they're doing is the greatest thing and the other guy is a loser.

There's nothing else they can say. It isn't that he doesn't have a clue.

Whenever a company comes out with a competing product, and someone from the first company is interviewed, they have to say that.

Even if they believed otherwise. What could he say? "Apple does a great job, and we're really concerned that they might kill our sales."

That statement, or anything remotely like it, would do the job for Apple before the product came off the assembly line.
post #45 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCQ

Am I the only one who thinks this Apple cell-phone idea make little-to-no sense?

Yes!.
post #46 of 146
I brush off the existence of Palm
post #47 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by nathan22t

I brush off the existence of Palm

ROFL
post #48 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by JadeEmpirePlaya

Sony Ericsson makes some sweet phones. I would think that Apple would have a multimedia Ipod phone like the w810i and then a PDA Apple Style. The problem is that SE phones trail Nokia and Motorola by quite a wide margin. I would spend up to $400 on the multimedia one and maybe $500 for the PDA. A lot of my friends who have a SE phone are not using their Ipod as often because they can load a 2 or 4 Gb memory card and only carry one device. Obviously it is not as good as an Ipod but combining 2 products can work if done right. apple would probably have to partner with a mobile handset firm to lower costs unless they are going for broke. If it's Motorola then I would not buy it...

Totally. SonyE makes some good solid phones with attractive, vibrant user interfaces and fairly solid OS experience, Symbian is good, ya. Even their non-Walkman phones are now pretty moving all into playing mp3s and AAC as well. None of that "Oh, sorry, you got to convert to this ATRAC3 F*KIGN RUBBISH"......

The sad thing is who is going to take the next step and take on WindowsMobile PDA-phone? Nokia's moving strongly on smartphones, but integration with Outlook and Windoze or MacOSX .... hmmm.... messy....
post #49 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

Windows phones are truely bad....I haven't yet seen one review of a Windows phone that was better than lukewarm. Most are downright negitive.

Yet some people still need it and use it ... Those that don't want to wrangle mobile and laptop separately.
post #50 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Yet some people still need it and use it ... Those that don't want to wrangle mobile and laptop separately.

There's that typical idea that in order to (wrongly) have vertical compatability within an institution, Windows must be used at all levels. Actually, the programs used in Palms have shown better compatability than MS's own. But, that doesn't seem to matter.
post #51 of 146
well, i just had to do a hard reset of my treo 700p last night and reinstall all my software. it crashes at least once a day and it is extremely unresponsive switching between apps. if you ask me, palm hasn't even done that great of a job making a phone after "suffering through" those years. some companies have it and some don't. palm doesn't. it's inexcuseable for a $400 phone to take more than a second to switch between a mail app and the phone app.

i think a lot of people are generally dissatisfied with their smart phone experience and there's a large market there waiting to be captured. overall, the sidekicks 1 & 2 that i had were a much more "apple" experience. they worked flawlessly and responsively. in the end, they just weren't powerful enough (or have evdo) so i switched.

please apple, save us from "smart"phone hell. i can only hope it'll work with verizon since i'm tied into a plan now.
post #52 of 146
Palm has a bigger problems right now then Apple coming into the market. Who do everyone think Palm biggest rival is right now? Lets be honest, it is not Nokia, Motorola or SE. They are in different markets. Palm is praying that their Treo line can be profitable. However, they have gone from market leader to market follower in a few short years. I agree Windoze Mobile doesn’t work. I have not much of a choice considering my requirements. Just to add salt, currently their biggest rivals are HTC and Gigabyte. These are the people who produce the other Windozes Mobile devices in the market (majority of them) and sell under different names like O2 and whatever else. Gigabyte is doing the GPS thingy while HTC is doing the “everything including the kitchen sink” approach. “PC Guys” right…. Even without Apple entering the market, they are already in trouble. But don’t get me wrong, I still love my Palms. Started with a Palm III, then a TRGpro, following up with a IIIc and IBM c500 & Palm m505. Good OS, Good PIM software.

All I have to do now is to link their software with my lousy reset every day Windoze Mobile HTC Hermes.
post #53 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by admactanium

well, i just had to do a hard reset of my treo 700p last night and reinstall all my software. it crashes at least once a day and it is extremely unresponsive switching between apps. if you ask me, palm hasn't even done that great of a job making a phone after "suffering through" those years. some companies have it and some don't. palm doesn't. it's inexcuseable for a $400 phone to take more than a second to switch between a mail app and the phone app.

i think a lot of people are generally dissatisfied with their smart phone experience and there's a large market there waiting to be captured. overall, the sidekicks 1 & 2 that i had were a much more "apple" experience. they worked flawlessly and responsively. in the end, they just weren't powerful enough (or have evdo) so i switched.

please apple, save us from "smart"phone hell. i can only hope it'll work with verizon since i'm tied into a plan now.

I've had to do a few soft resets, never a hard one. I did find a progran that was causing some of those needed resets, and removed it. Apparently, it didn't like the newer OS.

It still switches far quicker than Windows Mobile apps do, and it reqjires far less "clicks" to get anything done. Reports of the Windows products have them crashing far more.

I'm not familliar with the Symbian phones, but Aegis seems to had problems with some of the newer ones.
post #54 of 146
sure, i agree that for what i need it for, the treo is the best solution. but i also had mp3 players before the ipod that were the best solutions for the time. the treo, even if it weren't crashing or lagging on app switches, even in its ideal form as it is, is still not a great user experience. not even close. the sidekick was actually a much better user experience, it's just much more limited than the treo. if apple can ipod-ify the smart phone market then look out world. i think there are a lot of people out there who like what they have because they haven't seen anything better.
post #55 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

There's that typical idea that in order to (wrongly) have vertical compatability within an institution, Windows must be used at all levels. Actually, the programs used in Palms have shown better compatability than MS's own. But, that doesn't seem to matter.

Good point. But it still remains that an Apple SmartPhonePDA would have to have high compatibility with Office and Outlook, maybe LDAP (??) and stuff.
post #56 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaPeaJay

I believe that this CEO honestly doesn't get it. Look at all the players in the cell phone market. Have any of them in all of their market research and R&D come up with a phone that people truly "love"? No. But people "love" their macs, and they "love" their iPods. I think they'll "love" their iPhones too.

While there is a grain of truth, I think it's just spin. But it's true that you can't simply expect instant success without a lot of work, but it's also true that you can't spin bat guano into silk and pretend that Palm is doing great these days.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AjayBot

And by PC guys, I think they meant personal computers, ie mac & windows & linux & (insert here)

But first things first, the interview segment was about Apple. The Windows and LInux phones are already established in the market and are pummeling Palm's share of smart phones. Not only that, Apple isn't just a PC company with just PC guys. They are a consumer electronics and media distribution company too. Heck, they had some experience making PDAs too. The real reasons why the Apple PDA division was ended is a topic of too many threads, I won't go into it.

I happen to like PalmOS, and it's been very reliable for me, but apparently sometimes the hardware isn't. My Tapwave has been working without reliability problems. I had an m100 that lasted a lot longer than any individual iPod that I've owned so far, even my first gen nano's too new to say whether that will change it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DCQ

Am I the only one who thinks this Apple cell-phone idea make little-to-no sense? Like the movie download thing, this seems more analyst-driven rather than consumer-demand-driven.

If you don't think there's a notable consumer demand then I think you are playing ignorant. It's one thing to say that it won't dominate the market (mobile market is too huge to dominate), it's another to say there's no notable demand. Because of how big the mobile market is, even a tiny sliver would be huge for Apple. I seem to recall several surveys that suggest that there's a good market for an Apple phone. I won't say I will buy one, but I'd like to see it.

Quote:
Frankly, I was skeptical of the iTunes movie thing...still am.

I suppose grossing $4M in the first couple months isn't enough to convince you? It's a pretty good start, especially considering that the starting library is pretty small. For several reasons that I won't go into, I won't buy any iTunes movies, heck, I almost don't buy from iTunes at all, but I have to admit that the sales do seem to be going pretty well, a little better than I would have expected.
post #57 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by melgross

I'm not familliar with the Symbian phones, but Aegis seems to had problems with some of the newer ones.

Yep. The new Symbian OS 9 phones like the P990 are much buggier than either Palm or Windows IME which is totally the reverse of the situation from Symbian OS7 which was rock solid. Like not resetting ever kind of solid no matter what you did.

Pity too as overall UIQ 3 (the interface on the P990) was pretty good. Memory handling seems to be the biggest problem as it has the entirely stupid idea that if memory is too fragmented or there's not enough to run the app you've just switched to, it reboots, with a nice message saying the phone has restarted in order to improve performance. It even did it mid call on me once when an email came in in the background. That's ridiculous.

In the previous phones they also used 'Execute-In-Place' so nothing had to be copied from ROM to RAM to run it. Even though the new phones have more RAM, when you're running a few things you've got less. Couple it with the crappy memory handler and it's a recipe for disaster.

Palm's problem is they're still running a 68K OS in emulation with no memory protection and no preemptive multi tasking. It's like trying to run modern applications on an SE/30 and OS7.

Meanwhile Microsoft just announced Windows Mobile 6 and that now does intelligent memory handling where by they don't close an app down if you click close. They keep it around in case you need it so it's quickly there again and only switch it out if you need the ram for something else. I imagine that'll speed things up a lot.

And that's how Microsoft are winning, gradually improving, whilst their competitors fsck up.

That said, the only two smartphone platforms growing are Symbian (over 75% of the market) and Windows Mobile. Symbian runs on 100 million phones currently but those are mostly OS7. They'll have to improve OS9. Everybody else is shrinking.

So yeah, it's time for Apple to ride in on the shiny white horse and save us smart phone villagers from a life in servitude to crappy phone OSs.
post #58 of 146
Can we just get our damned iPhones already and quit the chatter?

Steve?
post #59 of 146
I like this guy. Why people think apple will have the same type of success with a phone as they did with the iPod is beyond me.

This guy is smug, but Steve has the same attitude when someone mentions a "iPod Killer" music player.

Cellphone/Smartphones will be the end of iPods.\
post #60 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

If you don't think there's a notable consumer demand then I think you are playing ignorant. It's one thing to say that it won't dominate the market (mobile market is too huge to dominate), it's another to say there's no notable demand. Because of how big the mobile market is, even a tiny sliver would be huge for Apple. I seem to recall several surveys that suggest that there's a good market for an Apple phone. I won't say I will buy one, but I'd like to see it.

"Seem..." "suggest..." "tiny sliver..." "won't say I will buy one..." ---> and you're defending the iPhone?



Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

I suppose grossing $4M in the first couple months isn't enough to convince you? It's a pretty good start, especially considering that the starting library is pretty small. For several reasons that I won't go into, I won't buy any iTunes movies, heck, I almost don't buy from iTunes at all, but I have to admit that the sales do seem to be going pretty well, a little better than I would have expected.

That's $4 million in revenue, not profit. And my guess is that Apple gets to keep, at best, $400,000 out of that. And for that, they have to pay for engineers working on the DRM, lawyers working on the EULs, multiple high-level negotiations with multiple studio execs, people working on the compression, servers, bandwidth, credit card companies, customer support... And for that, customers pay almost DVD prices for a) sub-DVD quality (lower esolution AND lower bitrates), b) no ability to burn DVDs, c) no extras, d) no commentaries, e) no alternate language tracks.

Like I said, analyst-driven, not consumer-driven.
post #61 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by DCQ

"Seem..." "suggest..." "tiny sliver..." "won't say I will buy one..." ---> and you're defending the iPhone?

Yes. I generally do like Apple products but won't commit to buying a product that I haven't seen, which is why I said that. What I am saying is that the phone market is huge. There were a few stories that said if Apple grabs a few percent of the phone market, they would match their iPod revenue. I think Apple would be stupid to not get into it somehow.

Quote:
That's $4 million in revenue, not profit. And my guess is that Apple gets to keep, at best, $400,000 out of that. And for that, they have to pay for engineers working on the DRM, lawyers working on the EULs, multiple high-level negotiations with multiple studio execs, people working on the compression, servers, bandwidth, credit card companies, customer support... And for that, customers pay almost DVD prices for a) sub-DVD quality (lower esolution AND lower bitrates), b) no ability to burn DVDs, c) no extras, d) no commentaries, e) no alternate language tracks.

It's another option. I would never say that iTunes movie is equivalent to the DVD. With the iTunes version, you can have multiple copies of the movie playing at the same time.

Would you say that the iPod is analyst driven because it doesn't feature a radio tuner and voice recorder? It's the same general idea.
post #62 of 146
hahahaha
...
Colligan:
'Just like Apple couldn't figure out the MP3 player market....
OH...I mean OK they're a hardware company I guess then....so yeah jsut like they couldn't figure out a reasonable and successful online music distribution/marketplace......OH... I mean...then bricks and mortar sale points.....er... I .... Uh.....niner....'


Buddy. It's called inovation. It's why PALM has dropped to $16 in the last 5 years and AAPL has increased 800%. Thanks for playing.....

EDIT: Apple - don't cube us!
Good for <del>wiki</del>OpenLeaks
<del>wiki</del>OpenLeaks for Good
Reply
Good for <del>wiki</del>OpenLeaks
<del>wiki</del>OpenLeaks for Good
Reply
post #63 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by MoparSteve

Its possible that he is just brushing off Apple, but it seems that corporate executives (and politicians) all spin PR propaganda and FUD to support their agenda or best interests, even though they know its not the truth. They claim that everything they're doing is the greatest thing and the other guy is a loser.

CEO's are pretty much like politicians now in that regard. 24-hour financial news cycles, the continuing popular romance with the stock market and outrageous bonuses have made them more important as spin-meisters than managers. Jobs is the perfectest example.

You can at least vote a politician out of office, you have to wait years for the market or board room to do the same.
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
The Mother of all flip-flops!!
Support our troops by educating yourself and being a responsible voter. Democracy and Capitalism REQUIRE Intelligence and Wisdom if they are to be worth a damn beyond...
Reply
post #64 of 146
Quote:
Palm CEO Ed Colligan:
``We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,'' he said. ``PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.''

A "Hollywood moment" we are quite apt to remember for some time. This poor chap is quite likely to be remembered for hoisting himself on his own pitard with this one pithy comment than for all his other corporate achievements. \
post #65 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by waytogobuddy

hahahaha
.
Buddy. It's called inovation. It's why PALM has dropped to $16 in the last 5 years and AAPL has increased 800%. Thanks for playing.....

I agree with the general point, but actually, in the last 5 years, Palm doubled from about $8 to $16.

The more interesting comparison is from early 2000: Palm was selling for about $800 (now $16), while Apple was in the mid-30s (now 90).
post #66 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunilraman

Good point. But it still remains that an Apple SmartPhonePDA would have to have high compatibility with Office and Outlook, maybe LDAP (??) and stuff.

For institutional users, yes. Less important for most other users who just want a goodfunphone.

I would like to see an Apple phone build up a catalog of programs like those Palm and Windows Mobile has. I'm pretty sure that the developers of those programs would move them to an Apple product if Apple made that possible with a PDA-like product, based on X.

I'm also sure that Apple developers would do as well.
post #67 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

I like this guy. Why people think apple will have the same type of success with a phone as they did with the iPod is beyond me.

This guy is smug, but Steve has the same attitude when someone mentions a "iPod Killer" music player.

Cellphone/Smartphones will be the end of iPods.\

I'll give you one reason why.

Because almost everyone I speak to about this, says that they would buy an Apple phone if they could get it. That covers a bunch of people from different walks of life. All of my daughters friends said that to me, as have my friends, whether they have money or not. Of course, that mostly accounts for people here in NYC, but not all.
post #68 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackSummerNight

Cellphone/Smartphones will be the end of iPods.\

How? Music playback capability of current mobile phones is even worse than the worst of the Digital Music Players that failed against the iPod & they're not getting any better because their concepts are weak/non-existent.

That said the iPod needs to evolve to meet demands of device consolidation and feedback from polls here is that mobile phones are getting too complex for the average punter. The PDA's open-platform-waiting-for-good-software line probably won't help this but an iPod-like application-specific device (consolidating a few apps) is likely to be the answer.

As Bill Gates fades into retirement, so does his technology/chaos-driven approach which has left us with technology that could & should do everything but is generally unuseful. The public is starting to demand excellence from tech products and Apple are one of the few companies who can actually deliver. We'll see but I'm buying.8)

McD
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
Android proves (as Windows & VHS did before it) that if you want to control people, give us choices and the belief we're capable of making them. We're all 'living' the American dream.
Reply
post #69 of 146
Hilarious. Colligan runs Palm into the ground and then he seriously thinks other people should listen to him?!?
post #70 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave

How? Music playback capability of current mobile phones is even worse than the worst of the Digital Music Players that failed against the iPod & they're not getting any better because their concepts are weak/non-existent.

That said the iPod needs to evolve to meet demands of device consolidation and feedback from polls here is that mobile phones are getting too complex for the average punter. The PDA's open-platform-waiting-for-good-software line probably won't help this but an iPod-like application-specific device (consolidating a few apps) is likely to be the answer.

As Bill Gates fades into retirement, so does his technology/chaos-driven approach which has left us with technology that could & should do everything but is generally unuseful. The public is starting to demand excellence from tech products and Apple are one of the few companies who can actually deliver. We'll see but I'm buying.8)

McD

Don't ever make an assumption about future products based on the poor performance of those present today. That has always been a big mistake.

You can't say that the concepts are weak, etc. You don't know what those concepts are. You just see the products that they can produce now. You don't know what they have in mind for the future. My Treo is a pretty fair music player, though I don't use it much for that.

There's the old concept of walking before you can run.

It's difficult to integrate all of these functions into one device. But, it will progress until someone does it right. Hopefully, that someone will be Apple.

Look to the mp3 players themselves. Until the iPod came along, they weren't really fun to use, except in a geeky way. But now, all of the players that are big enough to have one, have a screen large enough to have a very usable menuing system.

PC DOS wasn't fun either. But first Xerox, and then Apple, showed a better way, and now all computers have a good interfaceeven Linux.

The model T wasn't a great car, but it got things going.

Quicktime was a joke when it first came out. 160 x 120 at 15 frames/sec, with 8 bit mono sound. Many people didn't think that had much of a future either, except as a novelty.

I doubt that Bell thought of PDA cellphones when he called to Watson.
post #71 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by McDave

but is generally unuseful

I'd even go further and call it "useless"


Speaking of Palm: When will versiontracker.com finally get rid of the Palm OS section? Feels kind of obsolete in 2006...
post #72 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by pmjoe

Hilarious. Colligan runs Palm into the ground and then he seriously thinks other people should listen to him?!?

He hasn't really run it into the ground...they're finally starting to become viable again (thanks to Windows Mobile).
But maybe I'm just saying this because I've owned two Treo 650s, a Treo 700p (yeah that one was junk, but 650 was best phone ever), and now a Treo 700wx..
15" MBP 2.53GHz Mid 2009, 4GB RAM, 640GB HD, sux0rz GF9400, 10.6.x...wish I had the money for a new 15" with the 1680x1050 display...sigh.
Reply
15" MBP 2.53GHz Mid 2009, 4GB RAM, 640GB HD, sux0rz GF9400, 10.6.x...wish I had the money for a new 15" with the 1680x1050 display...sigh.
Reply
post #73 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo1982

I've owned two Treo 650s, a Treo 700p (yeah that one was junk, but 650 was best phone ever), and now a Treo 700wx..

I bought the 600 about a year and a half ago to replace a broken (physically) basic phone, it worked reasonably well for about 3 months, then started to have a horrid buzz that got progressivly worse as I used it. After about a month of that, it was completely useless as a phone, and I bought another basic replacement phone. I will never, ever purchase another product from Palm again.

I would really like to have "just a phone" that actually works well and is EASY TO USE. For some reason, phone companies think everyone wants all these features that the customer will rarely - if ever - use, like a camera. And why does everything have to be burried in multiple obscure menus that make navigation frustrating?

If Apple makes an iPhone, I will certainly enjoy music playback, but the feature I will want the most, is an easy to use interface that gets out of the way of useability.
post #74 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4fx

I would really like to have "just a phone" that actually works well and is EASY TO USE. For some reason, phone companies think everyone wants all these features that the customer will rarely - if ever - use, like a camera.

I should break it to you. A lot of people do use the camera feature, many of them use it very often. Just because you would not or don't use it doesn't mean that the typical customer won't. I really doubt it even adds a tangible cost to the phone above the cost of a Pepsi. The same phone without a camera might even cost more than a phone with camera now because of economies of scale.
post #75 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo1982

He hasn't really run it into the ground...they're finally starting to become viable again (thanks to Windows Mobile).
But maybe I'm just saying this because I've owned two Treo 650s, a Treo 700p (yeah that one was junk, but 650 was best phone ever), and now a Treo 700wx..

That's funny. Most people, and reviewers, seem to think the 700p is a very good phone, and that the 700wx is junk. The 700p also corrects many of the well known problems of the 650.
post #76 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by halo1982

He hasn't really run it into the ground...they're finally starting to become viable again (thanks to Windows Mobile).....

Windows Mobile is going to save Palm's ass. Well, glad to see they're still around, I guess. \
post #77 of 146
Apple must realize they have more of a battle in the mobile phone market than they did in the digital music player market. Mobile phones are an established ubiquitous accessory, much like iPods are today. The advantage Apple offers is a more tightly integrated product. Those who carry a mobile phone and an iPod now need only carry one device, if we are to believe the rumors.

One "killer app" to sell these would be a small utility within iTunes that lets users create their own ringtones as clips of songs in their Libraries. Gone would be the need to spend far too much money for a brief clip of a song, and users would have a larger choice of ringtones.

Apple should get their toes wet with something on the small media player end for six months before trying anything like the Treo and Sidekick. Of course, if Home on iPod is being resurrected, this could very well indicate that Apple has a Sidekick-type device in the works.

Hmmm. Mac OS X Mobile. Sounds sexy.

But seriously, I foresee yet another means for Apple to shill for .Mac. The (big) iPhone would allow one to interoperate with .Mac over the internet using Mac OS X Mobile.
post #78 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

Apple must realize they have more of a battle in the mobile phone market than they did in the digital music player market. Mobile phones are an established ubiquitous accessory, much like iPods are today. The advantage Apple offers is a more tightly integrated product. Those who carry a mobile phone and an iPod now need only carry one device, if we are to believe the rumors.

Nope. Been able to do that for some time with Walkman phones which are really quite good. There's a squillion different MP3 players on Nokia and SE Symbian phones too, some of which are really very good. Apple has no advantage real there. It's only advantage, like the iPod, is iTunes on Mac and Windows. The PC software side of the phone world is pretty dismal. That's where Apple will battle and yes, they've a huge battle on their hands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

One "killer app" to sell these would be a small utility within iTunes that lets users create their own ringtones as clips of songs in their Libraries. Gone would be the need to spend far too much money for a brief clip of a song, and users would have a larger choice of ringtones.

Nope. Been able to do that for 4 years or so already. Almost all recent phones let you play mp3s as ringtones uploaded over bluetooth. My current phone has 'Hate' by the Wedding Present when my private line rings and 'Duelling Banjos' when one of my customers ring on line 2. Barry White when my partner rings. :-)

There's quite a trade in mp3s with the kids too. They'd sit there swapping them with their friends all afternoon if I let them at iTunes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

Apple should get their toes wet with something on the small media player end for six months before trying anything like the Treo and Sidekick. Of course, if Home on iPod is being resurrected, this could very well indicate that Apple has a Sidekick-type device in the works.

The Walkman phones are the obvious target. Then the WinMo/Blackberry smart phones. Apple can't be seen to be an also-ran. 'Home on iPod' is a Mac only feature too. That's not going to sell 12 million phones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

Hmmm. Mac OS X Mobile. Sounds sexy.

If they do put OSX on a phone, I'm almost certainly not buying one. It'll be one hungry mess of an OS and totally inappropriate to the device, just like WinMo.

I can just imagine the 150MB firmware updates.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirrel_Monkey

But seriously, I foresee yet another means for Apple to shill for .Mac. The (big) iPhone would allow one to interoperate with .Mac over the internet using Mac OS X Mobile.

And will be doomed to the sidelines as it won't work with Windows. I'm sure Apple have learned their lessons with the iPod. If you want to make money, get Windows users to buy it. Sure, offer better Mac integration but you've got to take it mainstream.
post #79 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by aegisdesign

Nope. Been able to do that for some time with Walkman phones which are really quite good. There's a squillion different MP3 players on Nokia and SE Symbian phones too, some of which are really very good. Apple has no advantage real there. It's only advantage, like the iPod, is iTunes on Mac and Windows. The PC software side of the phone world is pretty dismal. That's where Apple will battle and yes, they've a huge battle on their hands.

Nope. Been able to do that for 4 years or so already. Almost all recent phones let you play mp3s as ringtones uploaded over bluetooth. My current phone has 'Hate' by the Wedding Present when my private line rings and 'Duelling Banjos' when one of my customers ring on line 2. Barry White when my partner rings. :-)

I think you need to reread the post you responded to. You nope'd a lot of stuff off the cuff but you were talking on a different point. Gotta keep your thought process straight lest we all see your confusion. Just because Walkman phones exist doesn't change the challenge Apple faces, those phones are just another item in the marketplace with crappy support. Apple doesn't separate the hardware from the software, they are a whole system.

And nop'ing the killer app idea because a lousy partial (and extra cost) version has existed for several years is just as shortsighted as dissing the iPod at the start. Sure the marketplace had mp3 players for several years before iPod, but they were crappily supported. The total system was new and Apple knew they were coming with the coup de gras iTunes Store long before the first iPod shipped. The total system enables the potential killer app, exactly because nobody else has been able to execute adequately yet. You also missed that the ringtones could be selected on the phone from existing music, not paid for and downloaded separately. Personally I'm not sure that that constitutes a killer app, but at least I can read and respond to the post as it was written, not off on some arcane tangent.

Quote:
The Walkman phones are the obvious target. Then the WinMo/Blackberry smart phones. Apple can't be seen to be an also-ran. 'Home on iPod' is a Mac only feature too. That's not going to sell 12 million phones.

Probably not, but it might sell an extra few thousand Macs once new people fell in love with the phone. Always with the negative vibes.

Quote:
If they do put OSX on a phone, I'm almost certainly not buying one. It'll be one hungry mess of an OS and totally inappropriate to the device, just like WinMo.

I can just imagine the 150MB firmware updates.

You obviously have exactly zero idea of OS design and the actual size of the OS X kernel. OS X on the desktop only has an ~8MB kernel, the mobile version which would need to support a mere fraction of the boot hardware should only take a meg or two. Just about everything else you see in a desktop OS is fluff to make life easier in a general purpose world. As a hardware abstracted kernel architecture OS X has vast advantages in repurposing over an older Windows build, enough of an advantage that the entire argument falls apart

Quote:
And will be doomed to the sidelines as it won't work with Windows. I'm sure Apple have learned their lessons with the iPod. If you want to make money, get Windows users to buy it. Sure, offer better Mac integration but you've got to take it mainstream.

Not necessarily. You don't need OS X to use all the .Mac functionality, there are Windows .Mac tools already. A seriously better version of those reduce the Mac only argument to rubble, although they would probably need to call the phone version something other than .Mac.
.
Reply
.
Reply
post #80 of 146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hiro

You obviously have exactly zero idea of OS design and the actual size of the OS X kernel. OS X on the desktop only has an ~8MB kernel, the mobile version which would need to support a mere fraction of the boot hardware should only take a meg or two. Just about everything else you see in a desktop OS is fluff to make life easier in a general purpose world. As a hardware abstracted kernel architecture OS X has vast advantages in repurposing over an older Windows build, enough of an advantage that the entire argument falls apart

Aegis wasn't talking about the kernel size, so I don't understand that point. OS X as an operating system consumes a lot of screen real estate and OS X software consumes a tremendous amount of CPU power and memory. The UI is not likely going to look as good or be as usable without significant changes. I would be surprised if they don't just improve the iPod's OS rather than do a hack-and-slash on a general purpose OS.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › Palm CEO brushes off Apple cell phone threat