Originally Posted by Marvin
Ok, it depends what is meant by Creationism. I always use the word in the sense that it implies that at some point in time, everything came into existence and possibly by some higher force. That's as far as I take it and I don't see how that conflicts with any view about evolution.
What opinion do you have?
1. everything was always here
2. everything was created by something
3. everything was created by nothing
I would add 'don't know' but strictly speaking none of us know so it's your opinion only.
well Creationism historically means a literal reading of Genesis and strict adherance to the black and white, while tying yourself in knots trying to take down evolutionary theory.
These are typically the religious right young-earthers, God created the world at 9am on Wednesday the 21'st October 4004BCE.
Your POV, is acutally more in line with the more esoteric eastern philosophies in that God is an abstract concept responsible for a one off creation event.
My opinion is that i dont know and im fine with not knowing, its the only honest answer - if i had to speculate, I would go for everything was always here.
See here's where a major problem lies. The Bible presents a theory of how the world came about. In no way whatsoever is believing any of the other stories a requirement. If a work of genius happens to be scribbled in a child's book would you dismiss it based on where you find it or do you judge the work on it's own merit?
Genesis was written over a long period incorperating the stories and myths of many preceeding and adjacent civilizations who all have developed an oral tradition of mythmaking and parable story telling, it wasn't written my Moses - because he is a fictionary character to illustrate a concept. In this context, it would not be possible for the writers to write a physics book about the creation of the universe, because these things were not known to them, and they had no way of finding out. What was know to them - and is valid, is what we would now call philosophy, psychology and spirituality. These things really havn't changed much between the period of biblical creation and now. People are still people and want, desire and need the same as they did 2000,5000,10000 years ago, and people are conscious and have imaginations. Nothing has changed much. So they wrote about the things they did know about, psy,phi and spi...
If you want to understand the context of genesis, you have to make the effort to understand these things, because that is the context in which they were written, and you can see infact, that if you develop depth of thought, you can indeed see the truth, wisdom and understanding in Genesis, and it isn't an account of the bigbang.
Its really up to you, it takes alot of work, effort, sweat and tears - or you can just bury your head in the sand.
The truth being what? That we are here by accident and our lives have no meaning at all? I want an evolutionist to stand up and say their lives have absolutely no purpose whatsoever and yet the theory of evolution supports the survival of the species. To me that is a contradiction. Why does a purposeless society try to survive?
The truth being that there is depth. Are you so shallow that if someone stands up and says you are a grand monkey, then you're life is pointless and worthless. What an insult to monkeys. Do you not love, feel, cry, laugh, want, need, give etc, that is not pointless or worthless - you must have a very bad contempt for yourself if your emotions and consciousness mean nothing, well the good news is, is that monkeys have all these same emotions too, and you are a grand monkey. Dont insult the monkeys with your self loathing pity for yourself.
Well, the creator may indeed have a creator but it's not necessary for us to know whether that is the case and as I said likely impossible for us to determine anyway because we are bound by the system that was created. You can make an analogy with a computer. It is a similar closed system that cannot go outside the boundaries we give it. The computer may be able to perform calculations and do tasks we set it to do and even learn tasks by building on basic blocks but if it asked what its creator was, how would it know? Unless it is given that information explicitly, it cannot know. However, it would be able to get some insight from its environment and itself.
CPU = intelligence
Ram = memory
input devices = sensory input
power source = food and water
I'd say that was a pretty good start. It could also see a form of evolution in the case of upgrades albeit far faster than we can. However, would there be any logical reason for it to consider that it appeared from nothing and nothing was involved in the upgrade process?
well thats the difference isn't it, some people are told something and they believe it and never question it or its validity, and some people do.
If there was a creator, you need to explain how he was created, or how he came into being, or a mechanism where he could have been eternal - a creator solves nothing other than moving the goalposts back a notch.
Maybe, you are not inquiring enough to want to ask this question? maybe you dont care, or are happy to accept what someone you consider a higher status than you tells you.?
And if the creator has a creator, is there an infinite line of creators? who was the first - I want to know.
It would be nice if people would stop just saying my theories are wrong and state why they don't make sense and what their own are. I take it from this post you don't consider the human race all that important right? We're just another species out of many. So why are we bothering to survive? What do we really hope to achieve? What do you personally hope to achieve?
I consider the human race to be very important, just because we are a nanospeck in the grand scheme of the universe doesn't make us any less important.
Conversely, because the Creationists and Biblicists have to invent these grand stories to shore up their doubts about self-worth, grandeur really is a reflection of how unimportant they really feel. It isn't the scientists going round saying that life is unimportant - its the fundies who are saying that unless you believe our delusion, you are a pile of shit.
And that brings me seamlessly
onto another point. What do people really think happens when we die. Is that it? If it is then why is it the case we haven't figured out how to begin a life? I mean if it's a purely mechanical event and nothing is in control then what's the problem?
it would be nice if what you believed in came to pass.
The creationists can go off to their strict, selfish, uncompromising God, who demands eternal gratification and adoration, and I can go off become a universe.