or Connect
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › PiperJaffray refutes claims of 'collapsing' iTunes sales
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

PiperJaffray refutes claims of 'collapsing' iTunes sales

post #1 of 39
Thread Starter 
Analysts for PiperJaffray are refuting claims recently made by Forrester Research that sales at Apple Computer's iTunes Store are declining rapidly, stating instead that their own analysis reveals strong growth.

"In light of recent media reports of slowing iTunes sales, we analyzed music sales data and saw strong year-over-year growth in 2005 and 2006," analyst Gene Munster informed his clients in a research note Wednesday.

In refuting claims made by Forrester Research that Apple's iTunes sales are 'collapsing,' the analyst used the iPod maker's announcements of iTunes sales milestones to interpolate weekly run-rate figures for the period between announcements, therefore accurately tracking iTunes sales growth.

Specifically, he compared total sales between January and September of 2005 and 2006 and saw 78 percent growth during that period. "From Jan. to Sept. in 2005 Apple sold 10.4m songs/week and in 2006 that number was up 78 percent to 18.5m songs/week," he wrote.

Munster acknowledged that with only two full years of iTunes Store data, he is able to identify several seasonal sales trends but not all.

"It is clear, for example, that iTunes sales spike upward in January," he wrote. "In the month of Jan-05 the store's songs-per-day average was up 58 percent sequentially and in Feb-06 (the closest data point year-over-year) the store's songs-per-day average was up 51 percent sequentially."

The analyst attributes the post-holiday growth to new iPod owners and iTunes gift card users, saying he expects another uptick in early 2007. In what he views as a "regular seasonal" trend, Munster noted that the iTunes weekly sales rate declined in both 2005 and 2006 (-5% in '05 and -27% in '06) post-holiday.

"While Apple does not release the financial details of the iTunes Store, the company has indicated that they run the store 'above break-even,'" he told clients. "The iTunes Store, therefore, is a supplement to the iPod as Apple's vehicle to monetize the free iTunes software."

Munster explained that the integration of iPod with the iTunes software along with some profitability from the iTunes Store represent the three ingredients of Apple's digital music ecosystem.

"We continue to believe the shift to online distribution of media is in its infancy," he said. "We estimate 5 percent of worldwide music sales were online in 2006."
post #2 of 39
Just to say first post woohoo!!

Of course iTunes sales are going up! The more people see the advantage of buying songs instantly rather than waiting until the next day, when you've probably forgotten what you wanted, the more people use the service. I buy more songs on iTunes than ever, because I mostly don't want the whole album.
post #3 of 39
I am glad to see this story come out. Now that we have more accurate numbers I changed my mind about what I said regarding the video iPod. With this impressive sales growth by iTunes, it now make perfect sense to transition into video. With iTV and a new video iPod combined with a larger selection of movies with improved quality, we should see similar results in video sales at iTunes. I will be one happy AAPL owner in two years
post #4 of 39
Forrester should be sued- some poor trigger happy saps sold their stock yesterday based on that report, and now it ran up.

Stock manipulation at its worst.
post #5 of 39
Quote:
The analyst attributes the post-holiday growth to new iPod owners and iTunes gift card users, saying he expects another uptick in early 2007. In what he views as a "regular seasonal" trend, Munster noted that the iTunes weekly sales rate declined in both 2005 and 2008 (-5% in '05 and -27% in '06) post-holiday.


I didn't realize they released their 2008 figures yet.


When I read the forrester report I figured it was shenanigans. It must have been nice for their friends who wanted to get in the stock on the cheap for the big run up. Market manipulation if I have ever seen it. I still don't understand how they can claim to have credit card data from the iTunes store. Apple doesn't even report quarterly sales numbers for the iTunes store and they claim to have analyzed all related credit card data. I don't know where they are getting it from, but I believe that would violate privacy policies. I believe the Forrester report was in the same paper who did the report awhile back which accused Apple of using 3rd world sweat shop labor.

It surprises me that people like Forrester can get away with this. It was the perfect time to drop the stock after a decline in order to let people get in at a great price.
post #6 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by nutrix

Just to say first post woohoo!!

Of course iTunes sales are going up! The more people see the advantage of buying songs instantly rather than waiting until the next day, when you've probably forgotten what you wanted, the more people use the service. I buy more songs on iTunes than ever, because I mostly don't want the whole album.

"Waiting until the next day", what are you talking about?? If I want a CD, I drive 5 minutes to the nearest Wal*Mart, Target or Best Buy. And since I'm fresh out of college and don't have a full-time job yet, I can't afford anything but dial-up. So in a race, a 15 minute trip to the nearest Big Box is quicker for me than the iTS. PLUS if I was a total audiophile, I could rip the music at a higher bitrate for better quality... something that the iTS doesn't offer.

SECONDLY, this might be just me, but I am ALWAYS finding favorite songs on an album that I had never heard before and hadn't anticipated liking. Like, I'd buy an album for a certain song or two but end up LOVING three or four others even more. As a result, I am unwilling to settle for what the radio sh!ts out these days. It's all-or-nothing as far as albums are concerned.

-Clive
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
Reply
My Mod: G4 Cube + Atom 330 CPU + Wiimote = Ultimate HTPC!
(Might I recommend the Libertarian Party as a good compromise between the equally terrible "DnR"?)
Reply
post #7 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by AppleInsider

"We continue to believe the shift to online distribution of media is in its infancy," he said. "We estimate 5 percent of worldwide music sales were online in 2006."

Maybe it's me but once DRM is bullet proof I see CDs going the way of dinosaurs. I envision digital distribution as the ONLY way of purchasing music in the future.
post #8 of 39
That would definately stop piracy but it would be hard to get bullet proof DRM.
post #9 of 39
The amazing thing about the Forrester guy and their study is that in spite of Forrester's "research", Apple actually breaks out their iTunes sales numbers each quarter in their earnings report. Has this guy not seen or bothered to review these numbers before putting out this "report"?

I suppose this isn't that surprising when you consider this is the same person who once upon a time predicted that a) consumers would reject HDTV because "people can't tell the difference when looking at it side-by-side with standard NTSC" and b) Tivo would take over the world and become a $100 stock or some such rubbish. Wow...people actually pay big money for this "insight"!

At least the Forrester report provided a good chance to pick up a few $$$ on the stock...
post #10 of 39
Because of privacy concerns (it's hard to see how a corporation or a
bank would yield credit card transaction records), I wrote to Forrester
about the data. It is indeed like a voluntary "Nielsen rating" system.

From the report (Methodology section):

The data for this report came from Forrester's Ultimate Consumer Panel (UCP), a nationally representative panel of more than 7,000 US online consumers. The UCP passively and continuously tracks statement and transaction activity for credit cards and debit cards used by panel households. To derive the iTunes data above, Forrester analyzed nearly 2 million credit card and debit card transactions for the 27-month period from April 2004 to June 2006. Transactional data is based on 2,791 iTunes purchases from this period.

Data for iTunes households was aggregated over the past 12 months, from July 2005 to June 2006, and was restricted to include only the 5,580 households that were active members of our panel for all 12 months. The sample size for iTunes buyers is 181 households.
post #11 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac

Maybe it's me but once DRM is bullet proof I see CDs going the way of dinosaurs. I envision digital distribution as the ONLY way of purchasing music in the future.

iTunes took three years to get to 5%. Even an additional 5% a year would mean about two decades.

I don't understand why you think that DRM would encourage the decline of CDs. There's nothing that can be put on a CD and still play, but cannot be broken.
post #12 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five

"Waiting until the next day", what are you talking about?? If I want a CD, I drive 5 minutes to the nearest Wal*Mart, Target or Best Buy. And since I'm fresh out of college and don't have a full-time job yet, I can't afford anything but dial-up. So in a race, a 15 minute trip to the nearest Big Box is quicker for me than the iTS. PLUS if I was a total audiophile, I could rip the music at a higher bitrate for better quality... something that the iTS doesn't offer.

SECONDLY, this might be just me, but I am ALWAYS finding favorite songs on an album that I had never heard before and hadn't anticipated liking. Like, I'd buy an album for a certain song or two but end up LOVING three or four others even more. As a result, I am unwilling to settle for what the radio sh!ts out these days. It's all-or-nothing as far as albums are concerned.

-Clive

Clive,
The iTunes Store was not designed to "maximize profits form Clive".
The iTunes Store is geared toward the needs of the average consumer.
The average person (unfortunately) hears a song on the radio 10 times in 1 day.
They want just that one song and they buy just that song on iTunes.

Exhibit A:
iTunes Top Songs
1) Irreplaceable
Beyoncé

2)Say It Right
Nelly Furtado

3)Fergalicious
Fergie

4)All I Want for Christmas Is You
Mariah Carey

5)You Dont Know
50 Cent, Cashis, Eminem & Lloyd...

6)I Wanna Love You
Akon featuring Snoop Dogg

7)Keep Holding On (From Eragon)
Avril Lavigne

8)My Love (Single Version)
Justin Timberlake featuring T.I.

9)Smack That (Dirty)
Akon

10)It Ends Tonight
The All-American Rejects

I rest my case.
post #13 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

That would definately stop piracy but it would be hard to get bullet proof DRM.

It doesn't have to be bullet proof.
Just inconvenient enough that the vast majority won't bother.
post #14 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac

Maybe it's me but once DRM is bullet proof I see CDs going the way of dinosaurs. I envision digital distribution as the ONLY way of purchasing music in the future.

I for one will never purchase digital media. Heck I prefer vinyl rather than CD though both my collections are well over 1500 each (LPs 7"s and CDs). Why? Because I like to see the liner notes and the cover art. Not to mention you could do some pretty cool things with CDs and records such as color vinyl, picture discs, shaped discs.
post #15 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

Clive,
The iTunes Store was not designed to "maximize profits form Clive".
The iTunes Store is geared toward the needs of the average consumer.

And Clive's original response was to refute the claim which had been made that iTunes had the benefit of being able to "(buy) songs instantly rather than waiting until the next day..." (my emphasis added).

Clive pointed out the sheer nonsense of the statement that a bricks-and-mortar CD run could cost you 24 hours of waiting. Not true. At least, not in most (sub)urban areas, where the majority of iPod consumers probably live.

He then went on to mention another charm about buying a whole CD, namely, the ability to discover other tracks which, despite not being the original purpose of the purchase, may end up being just as well appreciated.

You can agree with his second point or not... but it doesn't do anything to refute his first.
post #16 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacSuperiority

That would definately stop piracy but it would be hard to get bullet proof DRM.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

It doesn't have to be bullet proof.
Just inconvenient enough that the vast majority won't bother.

Music will never be copy protected enough - as soon as it goes from digital to analog (i.e. when played) any DRM is lost. Therefore it will always be a relative easy task to avoid any DRM.
(http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/wiretap/)
post #17 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by lfmorrison

And Clive's original response was to refute the claim which had been made that iTunes had the benefit of being able to "(buy) songs instantly rather than waiting until the next day..." (my emphasis added).

Clive pointed out the sheer nonsense of the statement that a bricks-and-mortar CD run could cost you 24 hours of waiting. Not true. At least, not in most (sub)urban areas, where the majority of iPod consumers probably live.

He then went on to mention another charm about buying a whole CD, namely, the ability to discover other tracks which, despite not being the original purpose of the purchase, may end up being just as well appreciated.

You can agree with his second point or not... but it doesn't do anything to refute his first.

Even if you have a one minute walk to the nearest store, I'll have my download faster.
Again the average consumer is lazy and wants convenience more than non-DRM CDs.
Until you can teleport CDs to people's homes, downloads will be quicker and will win in the end.
post #18 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kendoka

Music will never be copy protected enough - as soon as it goes from digital to analog (i.e. when played) any DRM is lost. Therefore it will always be a relative easy task to avoid any DRM.
(http://www.ambrosiasw.com/utilities/wiretap/)

I think you missed my point.
I agree the DRM can always be circumvented.
There are lots of tools that have come and gone like Hymn to circumvent FairPlay.
Does everyone use these tools to circumvent iTunes DRM?
No.
Why?
Because the average person doesn't care or is too lazy to do it.

The point is:
selling music with DRM is a viable business model
because not enough people will circumvent it to be detrimental to profits.
post #19 of 39
Sorry for the dumb question ... why does Apple not have to disclose data for the iTunes store, considering it's a publiclly traded company ?¿?
post #20 of 39
I have this theory that if it was not for the iPod and iTunes Store success, the good old non-DRM "Red Book Audio" CDs would have been gone already.

Why? Because WMA and its DRM would have become ubiquitous, and by now 95%+ of digital music player sold would be WMA compatible, including CD/DVD players. In an effort to combat piracy, the RIAA would have forced the industry to move to WMA only CDs, and obviously, with DRM. No need for rootkits to hide the unprotected audio, as there would be none.

Speaking of rootkits CDs, remember that Sony's rigged-up discs included WMA, and no ATRAC for some reason... As for including Fairplay tunes, Sony complained in its rootkit-CD FAQ that Apple wouldn't give them the license.

The clash between audio DRM standards is what prevent the RIAA to move toward phasing out conventional CDs.

The RIAA cannot make the move to Fairplay CDs because:

1. Fairplay only works with the iPod (and iTunes phones).
2. Apple doesn't want to.
3. The RIAA wouldn't want to give Apple (more) control over audio DRM. (They had bigger plans with MS)

I'm sure Apple plans to license Fairplay someday, but in the right context. For now, the more songs and iPods they sell, the more leverage and power they'll have when it comes to licensing, to ensure that Fairplay doesn't become a legacy format aimed at helping the transition toward WMA standardization.
post #21 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by panamajack

Sorry for the dumb question ... why does Apple not have to disclose data for the iTunes store, considering it's a publiclly traded company ?¿?

It does disclose data, just not detailed enough to satisfy the curiosity of rabid fans and analysts.
Apple does this primarily as a competitive advantage

Apple used to give exact figures for almost every model of computer they sold.
Now they just lump all desktop sales and all portable sales together.
Same thing with iPods.
Apple never gives a breakdown such as
25% shuffles
45% nanos
30% video

Analysts and Apple's competitors must guesstimate.
post #22 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by VL-Tone

I have this theory that if it was not for the iPod and iTunes Store success, the good old non-DRM "Red Book Audio" CDs would have been gone already.

CD's will never go away completely. Speaking as an independent record producer, I release vinyl records and CDs. The market in which doing so has no desire to have their music on iTunes, or any other online music service as even the slightest bit of sharing without the consent of the artist could cannibalize their profits.

Or by Red Book do you mean CD-R?
post #23 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

It doesn't have to be bullet proof.
Just inconvenient enough that the vast majority won't bother.

Sorry, you are wrong. All it takes is one person to braek the DRM on a CD, post the unprotected songs to P2P and boom, (to quote SJ), they are all over the net.
post #24 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by jadams

Sorry, you are wrong. All it takes is one person to braek the DRM on a CD, post the unprotected songs to P2P and boom, (to quote SJ), they are all over the net.

The DRM on songs sold by Apple can be circumvented.
So why are millions of people still buying music from Apple?

Because they are lazy (or honest) and want it conveniently.
The point I'm trying to make is that selling DRMed music isn't going away.
It is a viable/profitable business model.
post #25 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

CD's will never go away completely. Speaking as an independent record producer, I release vinyl records and CDs. The market in which doing so has no desire to have their music on iTunes, or any other online music service as even the slightest bit of sharing without the consent of the artist could cannibalize their profits.

A format doesn't have to "completely go away" to be effectively dead. You may very well be releasing new vinyl even as we speak, but vinyl is effectively dead, or, if I'm a little more generous, it as been relegated to a very small niche market. If as little new music was available on CD now as is available on vinyl, CD would effectively be dead as well.

If sharing "sharing without the consent of the artist could cannibalize their profit", how do these artists survive releasing CDs? You really expect us to believe that music on iTunes is more quickly or efficiently pirated than music on CDs? Or are these artists just irrationally afraid of that without any real proof of such a thing?

The only thing I can see an artist being reasonably afraid of when it comes to iTunes is that customers will be tempted to buy single tracks instead of their entire albums.

I don't expect CDs to go away any time soon myself, but from what I've heard most record companies would love to kill off the CD and replace it with nothing but very strictly DRM-controlled music, formats which make a whole lot more sense as downloads instead of physically distributed media.
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #26 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by shetline

A format doesn't have to "completely go away" to be effectively dead. You may very well be releasing new vinyl even as we speak, but vinyl is effectively dead, or, if I'm a little more generous, it as been relegated to a very small niche market. If as little new music was available on CD now as is available on vinyl, CD would effectively be dead as well.

If sharing "sharing without the consent of the artist could cannibalize their profit", how do these artists survive releasing CDs? You really expect us to believe that music on iTunes is more quickly or efficiently pirated than music on CDs? Or are these artists just irrationally afraid of that without any real proof of such a thing?

The only thing I can see an artist being reasonably afraid of when it comes to iTunes is that customers will be tempted to buy single tracks instead of their entire albums.

I don't expect CDs to go away any time soon myself, but from what I've heard most record companies would love to kill off the CD and replace it with nothing but very strictly DRM-controlled music, formats which make a whole lot more sense as downloads instead of physically distributed media.

MP3's or another means of a digital file is much easier to share, sometimes without even realizing it than a CD is. Not to mention, a lot of the listeners in this market do not care for iPods and there are even some that strictly prefer vinyl and will never even touch a CD. Even though it is a small market, globally there are well over a few million people (who would not touch CDs). It's not a matter of being behind in the times but for reasons I mentioned above (about having the liner notes, color vinyl, etc) and for the fact the quality is indeed better - unless you have the complete uncompressed raw file with the very best amps and cables and not even CDs could offer you that kind of quality.

It's hard to imagine this specific music scene without being involved in it but more the reason they would not want to ever be on iTunes or any other online distribution service is for the same reason they would never want to have their CDs sold at a major record store.
post #27 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffDM

iTunes took three years to get to 5%. Even an additional 5% a year would mean about two decades.

I don't understand why you think that DRM would encourage the decline of CDs. There's nothing that can be put on a CD and still play, but cannot be broken.

CDs can be copied, easily. If DRM for digital music was available that was bullet proof, then I would think it would be ideal for the music companies as they could distribute content cheaply and not worry about piracy. I just think that if that day comes the music companies will go from loathing digital distribution to embracing it and phasing out other media that can be pirated. I just can see an about face on their part.

My 2 cents.
post #28 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Mozzarella

It does disclose data, just not detailed enough to satisfy the curiosity of rabid fans and analysts.
Apple does this primarily as a competitive advantage

Apple used to give exact figures for almost every model of computer they sold.
Now they just lump all desktop sales and all portable sales together.
Same thing with iPods.
Apple never gives a breakdown such as
25% shuffles
45% nanos
30% video

Analysts and Apple's competitors must guesstimate.

But wouldn't iTune's sales, provided just as much as a service as a product, be quantifiably different ? Apple used to advertize the numbers of tracks sold ...
post #29 of 39
I agree there is a novelty to buying songs instantly rather then the next day, however since iTunes 128K ACC encoding has two significant disadvantages.

1 - Apple's Fairplay program limits the portability of music. Even though I have bought probably 40 albums off of iTunes, I've started to use Amazon to purchase CD's (typically used) and import the music to allow for more portability. It takes a few days to receive the CD's, however I now have a truly portable music collection in iTunes.

I'm also paranoid that at some point I may pass on, or somehow my iTunes account gets compromised, or I lose a couple of computers (theft or hard drive failure) in which case I have lost and my family may have lost their ability to play the music which we have heavily invested. I suspect my music investment is upwards of $10,000 over the years.

2 - iTunes ACC 128 is very good compression, but not lossless. I would rather encode the music into iTunes at ACC 160 VBR which seems to my ears to be truly CD quality. Ultimately I still have the CD's of my favorite music, however ACC 160 VBR is great compression and the music is to a semi audiophile the same as the original CDs.

I also suspect that I'm not the only one thinking the above. The reality is that over time users of iTunes and purchasers at the iTunes Music store will have to ask themselves about the portability of the music over time.

Digital music would seem to have an unlimited lifespan, however Apple iTunes seems to limit that potential. I see iTunes purchased music over time going the way of the 8 Track and Cassette tape in that if it isn't truly portable and transferable consumers will opt for other music formats if they are serious about their music.

I'm sure that for quick picks of specific songs and even albums I'm not sure about I'll still opt for iTunes purchases, however my mailbox has recently seen an increase in jewel cases

Quote:
Originally Posted by nutrix

Just to say first post woohoo!!

Of course iTunes sales are going up! The more people see the advantage of buying songs instantly rather than waiting until the next day, when you've probably forgotten what you wanted, the more people use the service. I buy more songs on iTunes than ever, because I mostly don't want the whole album.
post #30 of 39
Forrester has an incentive for their "claims." Microsoft.
post #31 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by backtomac

Maybe it's me but once DRM is bullet proof I see CDs going the way of dinosaurs. I envision digital distribution as the ONLY way of purchasing music in the future.

I see quite the opposite. DRM is a hinderence to the consumer and makes life inconvenient. The only people winning with DRM is the seller. The competition suffers. For me the only bullet proof DRM is no DRM.
post #32 of 39
Forrester should be taken to court for blatant market manipulation. How many fools sold based on their false statements?

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #33 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Forrester should be taken to court for blatant market manipulation. How many fools sold based on their false statements?

They didn't make any false statements, and even went of their way to try and correct the media's false interpretation.
post #34 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpamSandwich

Forrester should be taken to court for blatant market manipulation. How many fools sold based on their false statements?

If you are only investing based on one source of information, then you deserve to lose money. A wise investor, checks facts and makes careful judgements - to not do so would be foolish, especially given the amount of bad information that is known to circulate.
post #35 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by ajmas

If you are only investing based on one source of information, then you deserve to lose money. A wise investor, checks facts and makes careful judgements - to not do so would be foolish, especially given the amount of bad information that is known to circulate.

Thus, the use of the word "fools".

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply

Proud AAPL stock owner.

 

GOA

Reply
post #36 of 39
Edit: Outrage cleared. Too angry to make a sensible post.
post #37 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Feynman

MP3's or another means of a digital file is much easier to share, sometimes without even realizing it than a CD is.

Perhaps an unprotected MP3 is easier to share than a CD, but DRM-burdened files aren't, and that's what iTunes -- which is what you said these artists were afraid of -- sells. One does not run some hack to strip off DRM, or burn one's music onto a CD and re-rip it to get rid of DRM, "without even realizing it". That's at least, if not more, work than burning a CD.

A direct rip from a CD, at 128 kbps or greater, will almost always be better quality, therefore a little more appealing for piracy, than most things de-DRMed from Apple, because a lot of the tricks for removing DRM mean an additional lossy compression step (music is decompressed then undergoes a second generation of lossy compression). Take a song purchased from iTunes at 128 kbps, burn it to CD, then re-rip that CD back to that same low 128 kbps bit rate, and the results are horrible.

It only takes one person to rip a CD and put the files out on a file sharing service to start the piracy ball rolling. For any CD which sells more than a few dozen copies, it won't be very long until more than one person has done this.

So, I ask again, what rational reason related to piracy is their to fear selling ones music on iTunes? Objecting to iTunes sound quality or single-track sales might sense. Fear of piracy greater than CDs easily allow is totally unfounded.

Quote:
Not to mention, a lot of the listeners in this market do not care for iPods and there are even some that strictly prefer vinyl and will never even touch a CD. Even though it is a small market, globally there are well over a few million people (who would not touch CDs).

This is a very small niche market. The selection of music available on LP is far more limited than what you can get on CD. Your original point seemed to be that no one should fear CDs "going away" because LPs haven't "gone away".

My point is that if (or more like when) the selection of music available on CD becomes anywhere near as limited as what you can currently buy on vinyl, possibly complicated by other factors like higher prices or much-delayed releases, that will make CDs essentially "dead" for most consumers.

What would you say to the person who hates DRM, would rather buy CDs, but the specific music that person wants to buy is available only with DRM?

Quote:
It's not a matter of being behind in the times but for reasons I mentioned above (about having the liner notes, color vinyl, etc)...

Niche market, niche market, niche market.

Quote:
...and for the fact the quality is indeed better - unless you have the complete uncompressed raw file with the very best amps and cables and not even CDs could offer you that kind of quality.

Pretentious deluded audio snob horseshit. I have nothing against a true interest in sound quality, just the stupid ideas that some people who say their interested in sound quality are too often willing to swallow. Next you'll be telling me that vinyl, unlike that nasty digital audio stuff, has "infinite resolution" because it's analog!
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
We were once so close to heaven
Peter came out and gave us medals
Declaring us the nicest of the damned -- They Might Be Giants          See the stars at skyviewcafe.com
Reply
post #38 of 39
shetline I for one never said these artists fear iTunes for fear of piracy, I was stating that an MP3 or any of media file (I did not mention DRM).

Quote:
Pretentious deluded audio snob horseshit. I have nothing against a true interest in sound quality, just the stupid ideas that some people who say their interested in sound quality are too often willing to swallow. Next you'll be telling me that vinyl, unlike that nasty digital audio stuff, has "infinite resolution" because it's analog!

Have you ever a completely raw song? There is a very large difference.

I'm willing to bet that CDs will not be going out of fashion anytime in our life times as it is much cheaper to produce and more profit to the respect individual, weather it be the corporate monger like Universal or the independent artist. I could make 1,000 CDs for $1,290 and all I would have to do is sell less than 100 of them at 15.00 to break even and then the artist could take the rest of the profit. That's not the case with digital downloads.
post #39 of 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clive At Five

"Waiting until the next day", what are you talking about?? If I want a CD, I drive 5 minutes to the nearest Wal*Mart, Target or Best Buy. And since I'm fresh out of college and don't have a full-time job yet, I can't afford anything but dial-up. So in a race, a 15 minute trip to the nearest Big Box is quicker for me than the iTS. PLUS if I was a total audiophile, I could rip the music at a higher bitrate for better quality... something that the iTS doesn't offer.

SECONDLY, this might be just me, but I am ALWAYS finding favorite songs on an album that I had never heard before and hadn't anticipated liking. Like, I'd buy an album for a certain song or two but end up LOVING three or four others even more. As a result, I am unwilling to settle for what the radio sh!ts out these days. It's all-or-nothing as far as albums are concerned.

-Clive

I'm talking about when you are at home and it's late at night you can hardly go out and buy music at a shop can you? We have 2mbps internet so downloading a song is literally 30 seconds, and we can do it whenever we want. It is a better service all round. I'm aware that the music quality is not perfect, but neither is that of a CD. I consider myself a music fan and the quality of music is not as bad as all you people seem to think. It is audible and good up to reasonably loud volumes.

As for tracks on CD, that is what the preview feature is for. I never like all the tracks on a cd, because invariably there are fillers. It is also far easier to browse and look for music in the iTS.

I never wanted to offend anyone, I was merely pointing out why music sales would not increase in shops accompanied with a decrease in sales on the iTS.

Have faxes become more or less popular since the advent of e-mail?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: iPod + iTunes + AppleTV
AppleInsider › Forums › Mobile › iPod + iTunes + AppleTV › PiperJaffray refutes claims of 'collapsing' iTunes sales